Episodes 6.24 The Bon Voyage Reaction (May 16)

[phantagrae]

So now those scenes mean nothing because they were set up for something else....hmmmmm... why i am not surprised...

 

I agree that Sheldon considers Leonard his best friend ( his own words) ..but the situations I quoted previously never looked like Sheldon and Leonard were friends ...they were a pair of a bully and a wimp....

 

That's the dynamic that has been between them.  In many ways, however rude or insulting or demanding Sheldon may be, Leonard actually has the upper hand in their relationship in many ways.  He simply chooses not to destroy Sheldon the way he knows he could.

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

Oh god I don't. Penny is not in a good place. She drinks too much and tells stories about men. She had one positive thing happen, the play. But her life is stagnating. She's still waitressing after 6 years and thinks she's going to be a movie star because of a pyshic's message.

 

I feel like she definitely slowed down on the booze compared to S5 and I see nothing wrong with a woman proudly embracing her sexuality and bragging about her past conquests. If anything, it's empowering.

And this season, Penny finally got a truly serious acting opportunity, admitted to having unrealistic expectations, realised she has the right to be happy, understood that life doesn't have to be only glamour photoshoots and cocktail parties to be worth living, and that yes, being in a commited, loving relationship and having friends you can count on is definitely something to embrace and enjoy. I had never been a huge Penny fan, she was always just kind of there for me, but she's definitely grown on me in S6.

[Spaced_up]

You guys made these relationships sound like a dream come true. LOL! What can I say? I'm going to stop now because I have to leave work. If only Penny was that happy.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Clover

[queuetee]

If Shelton looks at L. as his best friend, it may be  because he never had anybody else who could stand him as long as L has put up with him.

 

Howard told Penny when she asked why they put up with him that they liked L and S came as part of the package. During that really cringe worthy scene when S. (  after offending L. and breaking the room mate agreement) tries to organzie the others to run his errands, and nobody would help him.

 

Don't forget that L. has been damaged by his mother so his acceptance of S's bully behavior may have something to do with that.

[phantagrae]

If Shelton looks at L. as his best friend, it may be  because he never had anybody else who could stand him as long as L has put up with him.

 

Howard told Penny when she asked why they put up with him that they liked L and S came as part of the package. During that really cringe worthy scene when S. (  after offending L. and breaking the room mate agreement) tries to organzie the others to run his errands, and nobody would help him.

 

Don't forget that L. has been damaged by his mother so his acceptance of S's bully behavior may have something to do with that.

 

I think that Leonard understands Sheldon on a deeper level and knows that Sheldon has his own level of "damage" if you will.  Leonard has said that he's willing to take Sheldon where he needs to go and to be his friend, he just doesn't want to have to do it because of the roommate agreement, etc.

 

I think that all of the relationships among the group are based on a sort of innate understanding of the others.  They recognize each other's strengths and weaknesses, the guys are bound by their shared backgrounds as bullied nerds and by their love for science, and so forth.

 

I think that beyond all of the frustrations of learning to live with Sheldon, Leonard loves him like a brother--an annoying spoiled brother, but one that he loves nonetheless.

[queuetee]

You made some good points, but it is difficult to look at a relationship where one give everything and the other nothing.

[vasu]

That's the dynamic that has been between them.  In many ways, however rude or insulting or demanding Sheldon may be, Leonard actually has the upper hand in their relationship in many ways.  He simply chooses not to destroy Sheldon the way he knows he could.

Yes the dynamic between them most of the times has been that of a BULLY and WIMP .... and it is quite tiresome to see this after some time...but sadly it has been quite established in the show

I don't think Leonard has the upper hand(from what has been shown in the show) since he most of the times gives and does what Sheldon wants even thought he does not...but never the opposite... see priya lawyer episode... Sheldon in-order to get what he wants tried to put Leonard's and Priya's relationship in jeopardy...which was a huge betrayel of friendship...but Leonard still stays with Sheldon like a puppy dog serving his master

Edited May 16, 2013 by vasu

[hamerman55]

I was trying to think of what Leonard gets out of the relationship with Sheldon after so long, and I think it is that Leonard likes having someone that is dependent on him. Ultimately, Leoanard is a nuturer, and having Sheldon need him makes him feel secure in the relationship. Penny is starting to supplant that role, as she has needed him all along, but needed to feel independent too. Now she's OK with being emotionally dependent on Leonard.

[koops]

I was trying to think of what Leonard gets out of the relationship with Sheldon after so long, and I think it is that Leonard likes having someone that is dependent on him. Ultimately, Leoanard is a nuturer, and having Sheldon need him makes him feel secure in the relationship. Penny is starting to supplant that role, as she has needed him all along, but needed to feel independent too. Now she's OK with being emotionally dependent on Leonard.

 

That's why I'm curious as to how the episode and the start of next season will play out. It's funny how Leonard's absence can have a massive influence on so many aspects of the show: Lenny, Shamy, Leonard/Sheldon, Sheldon, Penny, the whole group dynamic, not to mention his own career. He truly is the center of the show. I'll be very disappointed if they don't make the most of this opportunity and have him just come back like nothing has changed. 

[rubyanjel]

Okay. A little more sneak peek, and great interview with the cast.

 

Heads up, there's a cute Kaley/Jonny moments and some Jim/Mayim moments.

[menamena]

You made some good points, but it is difficult to look at a relationship where one give everything and the other nothing.

 

 

Agreed, it's not like Sheldon saved Leonard's life or anything or stopped him from being sent to jail by not reporting the explosion Leonard caused to the police or Homeland Security.

[CaitAmber]

 

 

Heeeey Menamena, liking the avatar.  

[queuetee]

Agreed, it's not like Sheldon saved Leonard's life or anything or stopped him from being sent to jail by not reporting the explosion Leonard caused to the police or Homeland Security.

 So it is blackmail that fuels the relationship? Hmmmm.

[ArmyGirl]

So I guess Leonard will be an indentured servant to Sheldon for the rest of his life.  Does the saved your  life card have an expiration date?

 

Sheldon is a bully and he is no different than the ones most of us have dealt with on the playgrounds of our youth or the workplace.

Edited May 16, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[ArmyGirl]

 So it is blackmail that fuels the relationship? Hmmmm.

 

 

Yep, we have seen it play out over and over!

[menamena]

 So it is blackmail that fuels the relationship? Hmmmm.

 

You are missing the point. While I do agree that Leonard and Sheldon's relationship is skewed towards Sheldon's preferences, to suggest that one party gives everything for the relationship while the other offers nothing is extreme, to say the least. Also, Sheldon himself has never blackmailed Leonard with the elevator story or used the "I saved your life" card to get what he wants, it is established in the Staircase Implementation that Leonard stuck around because he was grateful to Sheldon for saving his life... thus, the dynamics we have on the show right now.

[phantagrae]

I do think that Leonard has the emotional upper hand.  Leonard could easily walk away from Sheldon and be fine.  He could move in with Penny and be content.  He could take Penny and go live on a desert island and probably be fine with that.

Sheldon, on the other hand, is not really dependent upon Leonard for physical things like rides to work and the store.  It's more convenient for him than to have to take the bus and get his own take-out, but he can function in those aspects on his own.  And he doesn't need Leonard to validate his work in Physics.  But there's something much more fundamental that SHeldon needs from Leonard and that's his "human credential".

Years ago, when the first X-Files movie was coming out, David Duchovny was talking about one aspect of Mulder's relationship with Scully and he drew on something from another conversation or book (I can't site the original source without digging up my old XF DVD, sorry).  Anyway, the idea of a "human credential" is that Scully understands Mulder and his eccentricities and is sort of a go-between for him and the rest of the world.  If she sees something worthy of him as a human being, then others may be able to as well.  Otherwise, he's this lone crackpot in the basement of the Hoover Building, muttering about conspiracies and paranormal events.

 

In this case, Leonard is the go-between for SHeldon and the rest of the world.

Everyone generally sees SHeldon as this crazy guy who is supposedly a genius, but isn't a normal human being.  It's easy to dismiss him because of his quirks and his phobias and his arrogance and everything else.

But Leonard, being the kind of person he is, has been able to see past the crazyness to find the human being underneath the Shelbot exterior, to understand, somehow, that Sheldon needs a connection to the rest of the human race.  Otherwise, he'd be a lone crackpot, scribbling away on whiteboards and muttering about String Theory and the Nobel Prize.

 

Amy has alleviated some of the burden, but since she's hardly a normal person herself, Sheldon still needs Leonard's connection.  It is through Leonard that Sheldon has anyone to call a friend and through his friends that he was able to grow enough to meet and befriend Amy, and then eventually fall in love with her.

 

I think that Leonard is a generous, caring human being who is happy to care for those around him.  He's able to see the worth in people, including Sheldon.

[menamena]

So I guess Leonard will be an indentured servant to Sheldon for the rest of his life.  Does the saved your  life card have an expiration date?

 

Sheldon is a bully and he is no different than the ones most of us have dealt with on the playgrounds of our youth or the workplace.

 

I disagree with you on the assertion that Sheldon is a bully. To state that Sheldon is a bully is, in my opinion, ignoring Sheldon's complex character, the role that Leonard plays in their friendship dynamics, what Sheldon contributes for their friendship and also the importance of Leonard in Sheldon's life. Sheldon has never used mental or physical violence to get his way with Leonard like most bullies do - infact Leonard has the ability to get out of most situations Sheldon creates but he chooses not to because he does not want the extra stress, NOT because he is intimated by Sheldon. It takes two hands to clap - Sheldon is unreasonable and obstinate, yes, but Leonard is also partially responsible for the dynamics of their "unequal" friendship because he chooses to enable Sheldon's behavior.

 

That's why when you see Leonard take a stand - it is Sheldon who is most affected instead of Leonard. Going back to the episode where Leonard decides to move out frustrated by Sheldon's behavior - Sheldon gets desperate and starts negotiating with Leonard to have a "devil-may-care" bathroom policy. To me that episode shows that Sheldon is far more dependent on Leonard than Leonard is on Sheldon and that Leonard has the upper hand on their friendship, and thus the power to influence Sheldon's behavior with his non-compliance. Ultimately, as Leonard himself states - he does not mind driving Sheldon to work or doing little things for him as long as Sheldon expresses gratitude to him - to which Sheldon creates "Leonard's day" to celebrate their friendship. To me, this is the beauty of Leonard's character in a way - I think after Sheldon saved Leonard's life and stayed loyal to him, Leonard recognized that Sheldon is not a bad person - he is just a very lonely guy, isolated and misunderstood from the world at large who consider him a "freak" just because he picked an unconventional path. I think Bill Prady, one of the creators of the show, puts it best : "I think the fact that, despite everything, Leonard considers Sheldon his best friend reminds us of Sheldon's essential humanity." I think Leonard knows that he can influence Sheldon's behavior but chooses to tolerate it because he  knows how difficult is it for Sheldon, unlike him, to be flexible or change or compromise (i.e give up his spot)  and he enjoys his company. That's why it is fitting to me that Leonard is the guy who essentially bought Sheldon out of his shell because most other characters aren't as special as Leonard - they would either fail to understand Sheldon's idiosyncrasies and would not be as tolerant of Sheldon's quirks.

 

I think this aspect of Leonard's personality is ultimately why Leonard is perfect for Penny. Just like you state Sheldon's a bully, I have seen many people state that Penny is a bully who uses the geeks to get what she wants (as evidenced by the scene where she forces Bernadette/Amy to do her HW).  And, again, I don't agree at all - I think that ignores the complexity in Penny's character and just how emotionally damaged she is from her dysfunctional past. I think someone stated above how Penny has always loved Leonard but has been scared to give in - I believe that. I think the valentine's day episode showed me that Penny is the one who is standing in the path to her happiness. I think deep down, Penny has always been scared to give in because she doesn't feel like she contributes enough to the relationship and thus she is worried that Leonard will leave her once she is no longer "the hot girl living next door" and go for someone else beautiful and brainy. The fact that Leonard allows Penny to determine the pace of the relationship with the valentine's day episode is a big step because Leonard is telling her that he's not going anywhere and that he's going to wait for her to be ready. 

Edited May 16, 2013 by menamena

[Moonbase]

I loved the old insulting Sheldon from early seasons. He was purely literal and I could forgive him. But this season he's said some dumb things to Leonard. He's been a little biatch.

[CaitAmber]

I loved the old insulting Sheldon from early seasons. He was purely literal and I could forgive him. But this season he's said some dumb things to Leonard. He's been a little biatch.

 

Maybe he's been drinking Leonard's soy milk.

Edited May 16, 2013 by CaitAmber

[eirwinrommel]

So now those scenes mean nothing because they were set up for something else....hmmmmm... why i am not surprised...

 

I agree that Sheldon considers Leonard his best friend ( his own words) ..but the situations I quoted previously never looked like Sheldon and Leonard were friends ...they were a pair of a bully and a wimp....

Like I've said, I'm surprised Leonard stuck around long enough to meet Penny. I know the rent is cheap, and Sheldon didn't rat him out to the landlord (as if they cared) but that buys only so much time. I suspect the only reason Leonard can put up with Sheldon is Sheldon's reminding him of his mother (conditioned reflexes). I'm just waiting for Leonard to move out, (with or without Penny) and turn the care and feeding of Sheldon over to Amy (then we'll find out how much she really loves him).

Edited May 16, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[Nogravitasatall]

Like I've said, I'm surprised Leonard stuck around long enough to meet Penny. I know the rent is cheap, and Sheldon didn't rat him out to the landlord (as if they cared) but that buys only so much time. I suspect the only reason Leonard can put up with Sheldon is Sheldon's reminding him of his mother (conditioned reflexes). I'm just waiting for Leonard to move out, (with or without Penny) and turn the care and feeding of Sheldon over to Amy (then we'll find out how much she really loves him).

If Penny wasn't across the hall, would he have stayed this long? It's been a while since the rocket fuel incident, and without Penny he'd of been off with either Alice or Alex. I'd like to think Alice would not have been sentimental about Leonard's old roommate. Eta. I think it's noted that Penny and Sheldon have a special relationship, that might be unique. Eta2. Penny: (Snorts) Trust me, we are not a couple.

As you say, Amy awaits. I'm now concurring with those looking to see an absent or skyped Leonard for one or two eps, next season. Maybe things will precipitate.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[eirwinrommel]

I think Amy got a little taste after the V-Day episode. I know some people say making Amy his emergency contact was romantic. Maybe so. But if the end of the episode is any indication she may get tired if she has to deal with Sheldon 31. It would be funny if Amy greeted Leonard with a big hug, and a 'Thank God you're back!'

[BazingaFan]

That was a very sweet and funny episode.  Everyone was in character and I loved the interaction with penny-leonard... penny-raj and penny-sheldon.... penny was all over the place lol.  Yay for raj... he finally got over his problem, long overdue.  Lucy is getting funnier to me.  I have a feeling she will be back.

 

Sheldon was very classic and Amy was funny as well... loved the part where she said everyone accepted her like family (there were a lot of references of family in this one).

 

The ILY in the car with penny and leonard was awesome and very fitting for the end of this season.  The only thing missing was a shamy moment, but I suppose we had that last week, so I am good.

 

It's sad that it's over!  Hurry up summer. 

[eirwinrommel]

One question for the future is, just how 'cured' is Raj? He can talk to the women in the group, but he's known all of them for years. The big test will be if he can talk to someone new, i.e. get a date. That's a lot more stressful than talking to friends or even strangers in a casual conversation.