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Has The Show Become More About Sheldon Than Penny & Lenard?

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I'd agree. As long as it works for Penny and Leonard.

 

Based on the evidence I don't think it does work for them. Based on their history and their lack of some sort of common world view (or anything really significant in common) I'd say if they are actually back together they are most likely headed for a shipwreck. At least if they were real people it would seem most likley.

 

Of course if they were a real couple we would not gosip about it and leave it up to them to sort out. Since they are fictional I think we are free to speculate about this.

I'll cheer for it until it crashes and burns. I like the idea of it. It's no less an implausible story device than many other conceits. The challenge is for the show to make me care. So far I do. My sentiments may reduce to preference, not reason, but that's a fairly predominate and shared trait.

It's been fun today. I refer you to the fanfic "The Chew Toy Revelations". It posits many answers to the mysteries, in a generally plausible and entertaining way.

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I don't think so. If anything, it's become less about Sheldon than it was.

You are right, the last season was a little less about Sheldon, and the ratings skyrocketed. There are a lot of people, like me, that want more story line diversity, instead of what the writers have given us. I'm tired of something happens, how does it affect Sheldon story-lines. Lets have more stories, like something happens to Penny, how does it impact Penny, her boyfriend and her relationship with the people around her, screw what Sheldon thinks.

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I'll cheer for it until it crashes and burns. I like the idea of it. It's no less an implausible story device than many other conceits. The challenge is for the show to make me care. So far I do. My sentiments may reduce to preference, not reason, but that's a fairly predominate and shared trait.

It's been fun today. I refer you to the fanfic "The Chew Toy Revelations". It posits many answers to the mysteries, in a generally plausible and entertaining way.

 

Agree with first paragraph.  And definitely agree with the second paragraph.  "Chew Toy" gives a detailed and wonderful account of the BTS of Lenny....

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Back together? You do realize they have been dating for the past 2 seasons lol? And sorry I don't buy this commonlarities or no common world views, the best relationships are the ones who have enough in common but also different, it keeps things interesting. I think Leonard and Penny are great together, the final scene of Season 6 sold it to me, the Penny and Leonard interacted, Penny understanding but also compromising her needs for his, and the way she hugged him like she diddn't want to let go, is because they are in a great place now. But I do get where your coming from you are right Leonard and Penny do not have any common world views, but thats not a bad thing.

I don't see that given she does not say she loves him until the final episode of s6. Sounds like that episode is a pivital one for their relationship.

So yes they were dating but it would seem it was still really on a trial basis and Penny was not fully invested before the final episode.

 

When I saw "The Closure Alternative" I thought Leonard was truly a dumb #[email protected] for attempting to force Penny to sit through an entire season of Buffy. It was a bit hard for me to believe he would want to watch it himself. They got to find stuff they can both enjoy at the same time (at least some of the time). They can share being annoyed with sheldon. I don't think that is enough (everyone is annoyed with Sheldon, including Amy).

 

In "The Closure Alternative" the stuff going on with Amy and Sheldon was much more interesting than the fight over Buffy.

Edited by djsurrey

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I'll cheer for it until it crashes and burns. I like the idea of it. It's no less an implausible story device than many other conceits. The challenge is for the show to make me care. So far I do. My sentiments may reduce to preference, not reason, but that's a fairly predominate and shared trait.

It's been fun today. I refer you to the fanfic "The Chew Toy Revelations". It posits many answers to the mysteries, in a generally plausible and entertaining way.

 

I'm not actually so interested in Penny/Leonard that I'd start reading fan fiction which develops that relationship.

I'm indifferent to that relationship because of the on/off history it has had. I enjoy the engineering and physics references and the quirky personailities that set this series apart from others.

 

It is nice that there is fan fiction for those that want it I guess but I don't think anyone should have any illusions that the actual show will go in the same direction or that the charactors will develop in the same way.

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Penny and Sheldon are wayyyyyy funnier than Penny and Leonard.

That is because you are sensitive to that type of humor, which is okay, because the writers are going for a broad fan base. The humor between Leonard and Penny is relationship humor, while the humor between Sheldon and Penny is two people who think the other is a loony. Sheldon and Penny snipe at each other and both try to get the upper hand on each other, sometimes it is just like watching a brother and sister, as a matter of fact if you watch the episode with Sheldon's sister you will see a lot of similarities between how she acts with Sheldon and how Penny acts. Leonard and Penny get funny because you have these two different characters that care for each other and are trying so hard to make it work, which is funny. So the basis for the humor is different.

Concerning the Sheldon Show, I strongly believed that the show had turned into a tribute to Jim Parsons until the last half of season 7. The last half of season 7 seemed more balanced and I really enjoyed the writers dealing more with Penny and her career.

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Funny this thread popped up again after a being dead for almost a year.

 

So this season I was able to keep current because this forum kept me informed of when new episodes were airing and we also now have VOD with our cable provider.

 

Now that I have seen season 7 and also seen more than enough reruns of earlier seasons again I have a different answer the the original thread question. TBBT has been focused on the Leonard / Sheldon friendship first and foremost. This is a constant from the beginning. Leonard and Sheldon have both also developed a friendship with Penny. Clearly Leonard's relationship with Penny has become more than just a friendship.

 

It is not that the BBT is more about Sheldon  and less about Penny/Leonard because it was always about Leonard/Sheldon (and Penny too). Even in the pilot Leonard and Sheldon are first introduced and then Penny moves in. Of course the engagement changes everything and Sheldon did not see the ramifications or refused to see it coming. Only in S7e24 was Sheldon forced to see how things have changed.

 

It is anyones guess what season 8 will bring.

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 It is anyones guess what season 8 will bring.

More of the Funny and touching interactions between Penny and Leonard and the growth of the Amy and Sheldon relationship. They need to keep Sheldon away from Penny and Leonard.

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More of the Funny and touching interactions between Penny and Leonard and the growth of the Amy and Sheldon relationship. They need to keep Sheldon away from Penny and Leonard.

Would love this to be the case but...it's the Sheldon/Leonard/Penny show, so.... the writers just won't keep him away from them. Hopefully they'll at least change the power dynamic to Lenny over Sheldon instead of Sheldon the boss.

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Hey first three seasons if you want you can borrow my Bbt dvds 1-3 :). Oh really Sheldon and Penny are more funnier then Leonard and Penny wow really shucks, so two ppl who do nothing but spar like brother sister, and are played as antagonists because they do not understand each other, and the whole point of their relationship is they are not compatible at all. So its true to say you are more sensitive to that kinda humour, but Sheldon and Penny not only have similarities with Missy, but i also feel s/p are similar to Sheldon and Howards relationship. Just like S and H, Sheldon and Penny put up with each other for the sake of Leonard. But back to the op, i always thought it was never a show about Sheldon or Lenny, but all three of them. Two eggheads becoming Friends with the hot girl next door, and Lenny developing a friendship that later turned romantic. So the hunor of Lenny is seeing two very different ppl struggle to define the identity of their relationship. But like Sheldon said compared to any nerd Leonards a mackdaddy, hes the "normal" one, ive never considered Leonard as a "nerd". He has interests but doesent define his entire identity. While L/P have very different world views, commonlarities etc. They have also shared an unspoken bond. Bbt is all about reversing gender roles, while in real life L and P prob wouldent work, its not as uncommon as you think. The socially awkward guy and the archytypical blonde girl next door is endering. I think the ep that solidified to me Penny truley loves Leonard, is Holocast Excitation, what sets Leonard apart from any other guy who may have more physical attributes or money. Is the way Leonard intellectually challenges her, and loves her uncondintally, thats more important. So the fact theirs ppl who think Penny is so shallow she wld dump Leonard cos of the latter dont really get the show, shes fully embraced shes meant to be with Leonard, and realized she cant do better.

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I don't think it's a matter of her realizing that she couldn't do better (although she does know and believe this)--She doesn't want anyone else-better, worse, or the same. Leonard is her everything. Her bran muffin, her Cinnabon and yes her strawberry Pop-Tart--and marvelously (and most importantly), her fiancé.

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You know what I find funny, people keep saying how great the character Sheldon is but if you consider that the writers have written the show more around him, and write him the best jokes and funniest scenes, the second half of season 7 shows that Leonard and Penny can easily steal the show when the writers give them more attention. I'm never going to say the show can do better without a character, because I really believe this show does so well because of all the unique characters in it. I'm just saying when you have such good characters, the writers can give them material to let anyone of them steal an episode and the second half of season 7 is an example. I find myself not caring if Sheldon changes or stays the same when he comes back, I wonder more about what Lenny is going to do, now that they are engaged, and how the gang is going to take care of Amy.

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More of the Funny and touching interactions between Penny and Leonard and the growth of the Amy and Sheldon relationship. They need to keep Sheldon away from Penny and Leonard.

I'd bet you are right about the touching interactions and growth. Based on what we have seen so far the touching interactions will probably punctuate a fair amount of bickering and and other typical couple behavior. The growth might seem like watching a glacier move.

As far a keeping Sheldon away from Leonard and Penny I really have my doubts, except separation of Leonard from Sheldon kind of looks necessarily for more development of Sheldon/Amy. I think Leonard/Penny are quite resilient now.

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You know what I find funny, people keep saying how great the character Sheldon is but if you consider that the writers have written the show more around him, and write him the best jokes and funniest scenes, the second half of season 7 shows that Leonard and Penny can easily steal the show when the writers give them more attention. I'm never going to say the show can do better without a character, because I really believe this show does so well because of all the unique characters in it. I'm just saying when you have such good characters, the writers can give them material to let anyone of them steal an episode and the second half of season 7 is an example. I find myself not caring if Sheldon changes or stays the same when he comes back, I wonder more about what Lenny is going to do, now that they are engaged, and how the gang is going to take care of Amy.

I'm with you on this SRAM and I think a lot of forum posters especially the Lenny shippers and Amy centric Shamies agree with your last statement. Sheldon has become a bit of a polarising force for the overly analytical members of this community and there seems to be a desire to tone down his character. But to the majority, more casual viewer of Big Bang outside of this Group and other forums,who laugh at every inappropriate thing he does, Sheldon is seen as the centre of the show. Over the last few weeks, I've been talking to a lot of friends and family about the show and all I get is "Sheldon's so funny!" "I love Sheldon!" "What's going to happen to Sheldon this week!" "Oh my God, Sheldon's leaving?!?" interspersed with the occasional " about time Leonard and Penny got engaged....but how's Sheldon gonna handle that?"

While Season 8 is going to have a lot of Lenny moments I think the finale has still set up Season 8 to be Sheldon centric, at least early on.

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It's kinda like when an outsider enters the group, and the gang has to explain to that person why they cannot sit in his spot. It's like Stranger in Toon Town. I do agree Sheldon has become more a polarizing force in recent seasons, I think it is clear they have attempted to tone down the character of Sheldon. I do agree from the more analytical members of the shows community their is that desire, but from a casual fan point of view which you could say is everyone tbh haha they always see Sheldon as centric to the show, how is he going to deal with this change. I feel most of the comedy has been 90% How Sheldon is going to deal with change, and 10% how the rest of the characters deal with this ego manical tyrant. Used to be Four Eggheads and their hottie neighbour, and the comedy was the collision of two worlds. Where as since Season Four, it has evolved into a show about cohesion, and a more relationship and career centric focused show, which I love. But Sheldon has kinda taken over the show he is such a anti-hero, but it's like he is just anti now and without the hero part. I know some people like to say oh he lost his innocence because it has been Seven years, but Sheldon is not as unique as people think, the whole point of this show is one day these four nerds would have girlfriends and have human and relationship construct in their lives. Before Penny came along, Leonard and Sheldon were resigned to living alone, and just playing video games every night. I mean I Think Leonard had previous relationships with Priya and Joyce Kim, but at that point that was conclusion. Penny too me is the most important character in the show, I think it's best remember the initial premise revolves heavily around Penny. Sheldon while completely innapropriate at times, like in S1 cleaning Penny's apartment in the middle of the night haha, he did it from a good place. Where now it's getting to the point where he is so centric to the show, he has lost empathy for the people around him. I too don't really care if he returns to be honest, I think Amy Centric Shamy fans, if Sheldon does return he starts to reform his behaviour. Most of S8 early on anyway well be Sheldon Centric, and Lenny planning their wedding, or Penny haha.  

Edited by 3ku11

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Penny is the catalyst for change. Without her apartment 4A would have remained a stasis bubble of Halo Wednesdays and Vintage Video Game Fridays. Sheldon, on the other hand, is a staunch supporter of tradition and sameness. This is why their confrontations, battles of will and 'scowl meets grin' are so epic. Philosophies are in motion and at times unbeknownst to either of them is their adaptation to each other's position: Penny submits to meal plans and Sheldon, to the chaos of Penny's apartment.

 

Personally, I think this show had a unique flair when it was about friends rather than relationships. Of the couplings the Shamy should have top billing mainly because it makes the most sense of the current canon couples. It's the slow-boil romance with an unlikely pair of protagonists whereas the Lenny has left me at the point of confusion because the scripts have said so many negative things about their relationship: It's 'a new, boring kind of love' with unsatisfactory sex (interesting that in the early seasons Leonard could, at times, be a 'genius' in bed but the later years have had Penny complaining about his performance) that leaves outsiders like Professor Proton wondering what they have to talk about when they are together. 

 

So in all, yes, the show has drifted from being a Leonard/Sheldon/Penny show to a Sheldon show to a Shamy one. The Lenny was at its zenith when Leonard asked Penny out the first time and she accepted. Sparks really flew not just between the characters but also the audience. People were stoked! Now I wish I paid more attention when my mother was knitting so I'd have something to do while the Lenny scenes are on. 

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I don't think Penny has ever complained about Leonard's performance in certain areas of their relationship. Most of the time its just Gimmicks, or throw away lines, their isin't really any physical supporting evidence to back up a claim Penny is dissatisfied with Leonard Physically. I woulden't say Shamy was an unlikely pairing too, they have tons in common Leonard and Penny don't. I think its still a mix of friends and relationships, just more focus on the romantic relationships that is all.  

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I think the change in the show has been good, after all look at the numbers, but I'm getting a little tired now of the Sheldon show, I think it has run its course. I really think adding the two girls did more for the show than concentrating more on Sheldon. I've gotten to the point now that I enjoy more of the girl get togethers that the guys, because dealing with Sheldon has gotten boring.

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What I meant about Sheldon/Amy being 'unlikely protagonists' is that they aren't the Hollywood 'couple' type. He's 'a left-handed monkey wrench' and Amy's with her own idiosyncrasies. Normally such a couple would be of a secondary plot line but they've risen to be the more interesting of the pairings.

 

As for the 'relationship' angles, particularly with Lenny, I'd rather watch an entire episode of Sheldon and Amy playing Counterfactuals than put up with the poor attempt at 'screwball comedy'. I mean what do you say about a guy who shows a group of strangers a clip of his naked girlfriend and grins about her being 'his' or tells Penny to her face that he only did things she liked in order to have sex with her? Ba-dum-tish

 

Granted the whole premise for Leonard's obsession with Penny could be seen as a tad creepy in a non-comedy role (stealing her mail so he could talk to her for example) but there was a charm to Leonard that's now absent. I no longer root for him; more often than not I'm like, 'what a jerk' when he says/does something idiotic. I'm not looking forward to s8's plotline of having him insecure with Penny's new career. By now it's 'so common it borders on sociological cliche' as Beverly H would say. The characters deserve a more dynamic plot. Instead they're the inspiration for 'The Big Bang Theory Crochet and Ship-in-a-Bottle Club'.  

 

As for tiring of Sheldon, I'm tired of what they're doing TO Sheldon. Yes, the poor man has to change but you don't infantile him. First and foremost he's a Senior Particle Physicist. Early Sheldon might have had his problems (and hoo boy we could spend hours listing them) but there was a dignity to his character that made him tolerable (thanks to Jim Parsons). Now with all the racist comments and being an all-about sucky baby I'm sure Amy's wondering what the heck happened to the man she once had a 'relationship of the mind' with? Audience-wise, he's less enjoyable to watch which is a shame given the uniqueness of his character. It's like they're making him more childish to counteract the maturation process he's under. I think the writers need to give the audience more credit than it does in terms of the level of sophistication in the humour. I can handle a quirky Sheldon easing his way into a relationship. All the steps forwards and backwards. But the way it's structured Amy is perpetually nagging him and he's pouting and being a complete sucky baby--which is a disservice to both characters. 

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The all-Sheldon & Penny career angst "this half hour is 19minutes and 5 seconds" got to be very dreary the last part of the season. I think that's one of the reasons I am so unreasonably happy about Penny's new job... lol! No more sad auditions with predictable outcomes! If Sheldon can just fix his  work crap, then we won't have to listen to them bitch about their jobs anymore.

 

Because I was very much with Amy and Bernadette at that wine bar, and I understood why Leonard wanted to stay.

 

I'd be very happy to see more focus on the ensemble this year. More team work. Make the theme song for the Lego movie the guiding force, give them a common enemy who isn't Sheldon.

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@Project Gorilla I am sorry but your obviously missing very important parts of Leonard. He is not a jerk with Penny. Those examples are poor attempts at bashing the character of Leonard. Leonard did not say she did things to get sex, he was just being a typical guy telling Penny basically he did things for her, things he wasen't necessarily fans of or diddn''t want to do, but did them for Penny. And you serious can't take offense to showing the film on the trip, they were watching a movie, he was around his peers, people act differently around their Friends. And Penny was in a shower scene, he was proud of his girlfriend and was showing her off what is wrong with that. I mean people like you say one second Leonard is Passive Aggressive and all he does is pine for Penny, now they have been in an equal, requited relationship for Four Seasons now, and he is not as piny or passive aggressive suddenly he is a creep or a jerk. You even tried to back your claims up with bringining over the mail, How is that creepy? It is really hard for Leonard at that point of time being a passive aggressive, socially awkward nerd seeing Penny date guys or hang out with guys who were Physically and Socially superior. So he was nervous, I found those traits endering as a character, it made me feel sorry for him and invest in his character, bringing over her mail was the only way he felt he could talk to her, obviously a lot has changed. I just feel Leonard's confidence has grown in the relationship, and he has always been honest with Penny to a fault, that you may be misinterpreting as him being a jerk. And for the record I did  not understand Amy and Bernadette, of course Penny is going to moan about her career. She is 28 and the past seven years of her life were a waste career wise, it maybe fine for them to look down on her, but is she susposed to internalize things so her Friends don't feel annoyed, yeah great friend.

Edited by 3ku11
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@3ku11--Your statement--"Leonard did not say she did things to get sex, he was just being a typical guy telling Penny basically he did things for her, things he wasen't necessarily fans of or diddn''t want to do, but did them for Penny."

 

From the episode: 5.9 The Ornithophobia Diffusion 

 

Leonard--Yes I do. The only reason I went is because you wanted to see them, and I wanted to have sex. To this day, I can't see a Sandra Bullock movie poster without getting bored and aroused.

Penny: Okay, so while we were going out, how often would you pretend to like things just to have sex with me?

Leonard: All the time.

 

Before you accuse someone of 'bashing' a character, do your homework. I'm not a writer for the show or a philosopher. All I have to work with is what the show gives me and this is what Leonard said. And I say again, NOT cool. What I gave was an OPINION, what everyone here is doing. To not like the direction a character is going in is NOT the same as deriding the character as a whole. I don't like the course Leonard's character is taking. Milking Penny for 'pity sex' because she read his mother's book, yeah maybe once, but to do it repeatedly? Just sad. This, for me, is NOT Leonard, at least one that I sympathize with. I freely admit that this doesn't tickle my funny bone and that for others this might be a laugh a minute. To each his own. But to me it degrades his character. 

 

But I AGREE with you re: Penny having the right to gripe about her plight. She realizes that things are at an end 'career' wise and has to make a transition. This was her dream and it just went down the crapper. I'd be bummed too. However, it's nice that she finally decides to do something about it in s8. Penny has been in neutral for too long. Time to take control of her life and rock it! Hopefully we'll see some of the enthusiasm she had in earlier seasons. 

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Before you accuse someone of 'bashing' a character, do your homework. I'm not a writer for the show or a philosopher. All I have to work with is what the show gives me and this is what Leonard said

So, how does Leonard demanding that her guitarist friend not sleep on her couch and his making fun of her psychic fit in with this? I would say those weren't things he did to get sex.

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