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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


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So true Tensor.   The most consistent motif the writers have used with Penny is her insecurity about her intelligence and judgement. It pops up constantly in several episodes a season, starting with

Bullshit. My wife and I have OUR money. If money is budgeted for her to get clothes or for me to get clothes, neither one of us is giving the other money for clothes, we are using OUR money to get clo

OK, I went and re-watched the show tonight. I was looking at how Leonard and Penny reacted and it became obvious it was a no-win for Leonard. He was obviously sticking his foot in his mouth while tryi

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There was a movie back in the day called "Howard the Duck". It was the worst thing you could imagine.

 

Now, through the "evolution" of the show and its characters, we have "Howard the Douche". Quite possibly worse. I miss the old Howard. No need to point out that's not a majority opinion.

 

If the writers are so creatively bankrupt that they need to waste 2 minutes of screen time on their top rated show on something inspired by a third rate you tube act, can the water skis be far behind?

 

 

 

Edit: Is the show becoming just a vehicle for various hanger's on to showcase??? Or maybe they couldn't come up with a good Lucy story, so Kate has to settle for this as her "appearance"

So if you think the show is so bad, why do you continue to watch it?

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In baseball, the similar comment would be to take a hack at it.  You could certainly say take a whack at it... it just has the other, more deviant connotation.

You may all ignore my southeastern slang, you all know what I meant by whack it out! Ha ha ha. I should really find some better terms to use round here. 

 

If I go for a week without forgetting one med or another, it's almost a miracle.

I know right. I don't think I've ever managed to do it. 

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So if you think the show is so bad, why do you continue to watch it?

Honestly, no one has ever been able to give a satisfactory explanation for that. All I've seen are excuses, deflections, and accusations of "bullying" or some such. To my mind, it makes sense to stop engaging in an activity that you no longer enjoy, but maybe I'm just weird. :)

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People have problem's with the show, their are various reasons and explanations, but it tend's to be a post and go kinda thing. Like post once a month, say worst episode ever! haha, or I miss old Howard e.t.c. Then come back a week later on episode day, and do the same thing and wonder why people react unfavorably. TBH if Howard was still "old" Howard considering he is married to Bernadette, and was still creepy and hitting on Penny, do you really think that would be beleivable? Or even realistic? Bernadette would most likely kick his ass haha. Howard has evolved so much, and that's great! It's what people are missing the show IMO is better now then it was in the first three season's, yeah they are the origins of the show, but the character's then were arguably self narcissistic, shallow, matarilistic, and petty. Sheldon was narcissistic and arrogant, Howard was Creepy and Hedonistic, Leonard was submissive, Penny was isolated, and Raj was culturally challenged lol. Imagine in Season 7 if the characteristics of all these character's were still existing, you cannot tell me anyone who has ever watched the show I don't care what your personal preference for the show is, if it's Relationship's or Science, that anyone who watche's the show would find that still beleivable. Change is the only constant, to me the character's haven't changed all that much, it's just their relationship's that encompass their life's have matured a lot. More importantly the character's self-actulization and how they see their relationship's, has been de-constructed. In Penny's case it has been de-constructed from defining her happiness and success based on her ideals of wanting to become a big movie star, and how everything came back down to that. If it was from he guy's she dated, her friend's, even to the clothes she wore e.t.c.

 

Since meeting Leonard though she was clearly isolated, just breaking with Kurt who she had lived with for four year's, she was alone and the guy's particularly Leonard were a source of comfort, and a support network for her. Point is all these character's have grown beyond the initial premise, I just find it hard to justify a lack of creativity because the writing is conducive to a character's core personality back in Season One, status quo has changed, and TBH I am loving where the show is at right now. Because to be honest this has never been a show about geek's and their hottie neighbour, that was the premise all great show's and sitcom's eventually need to come to term's with the "situation" ending, and change with the time's. I mean you woulden't expect these character's from Season One in real life, to not change at all in their relationship's in seven year's, so why do people expect it on tv anyway. This has always been a show about people, so it was never a surprise to me relationship's took a more front seat to the science, they are getting olderish now, I even hear people saying Lenny are acting like an old married couple, so their's complaint's  they don't have to compromise passioante kissing for intimacy. Which is ironical because their was a time people complained Lenny was all about sex, now they are showing they have a lot more in common and people complain haha anyway . Penny is now making more adult decisions in not only her relationship's but also in her professional life, realizing she cannot be a waitress for ever, and her acting may not happen, so she is looking for something else she is passionate about other then Leonard and her friend's, it give's the show more room for improvement and more storyline's, that woulden't be their if nothing changed. I think the writing has improved a lot this year, and has been very creative, almost a shot in the arm JMO though. 

Edited by 3ku11

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There was a movie back in the day called "Howard the Duck". It was the worst thing you could imagine.

 

Now, through the "evolution" of the show and its characters, we have "Howard the Douche". Quite possibly worse. I miss the old Howard. No need to point out that's not a majority opinion.

 

If the writers are so creatively bankrupt that they need to waste 2 minutes of screen time on their top rated show on something inspired by a third rate you tube act, can the water skis be far behind?

 

 

 

Edit: Is the show becoming just a vehicle for various hanger's on to showcase??? Or maybe they couldn't come up with a good Lucy story, so Kate has to settle for this as her "appearance"

First, there are worse movies than 'Howard the Duck', 'White Comanche' comes to mind 1968 Western 'White Comanche'. Second the song was cute... maybe a bit too long but still cute. Third (Ha Ha) They aren't a third rate You tube act. Second rate maybe, but hey have some good songs. Their act is  just a little uneven.  We don't know that this is her 'appearance'. Though to tell the truth I question the need for a revisit of Lucy.

Edited by eirwinrommel
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And beside's saying you miss old Howard, yet following up with saying the show is in creative bankrupt, is kinda a contradiction in term. I mean wanting old creepy Howard is not exactly fresh and new is it just saying. 

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And beside's saying you miss old Howard, yet following up with saying the show is in creative bankrupt, is kinda a contradiction in term. I mean wanting old creepy Howard is not exactly fresh and new is it just saying. 

I don't think even Howard wanted to be creepy Howard any more.

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I don't think even Howard wanted to be creepy Howard any more.

 

Definitely spot-on. Remember Howard's speech to Penny in "The Stag Convergence," where he said that Bernadette made him a better man and that he's disgusted by the guy he used to be? No going back from that, even if they wanted to.

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Problem is society in general have a pre-disposition to the former, it's the same with music an artist's older music is always better then his new stuff, it's nostalgia. But in reality change is the only constant, people in general hate change, and when it come's to TBBT people in general who hate the relationship aspect of the show, hate the fact the nerdy root's seem to have been gone, not true just diminished. It's funny because the relationship's were always their, the first three season's were their to serve a purpose, to grow these character's to get to the point, where they realize how important their relationship's are. So clearly the norm from anyone who watches TBBT, is going to presume the show was better in it's early day's, it was at it's newest and freshest then, so of course people are going to say I want the "old" Howard back, or I want the "old" Sheldon back, or I want the "old" Chandler back e.t.c. Where as in actual reality the character's haven't changed that much, far as I can tell Sheldon S7 is no different to Sheldon S1, his social awareness has changed, and his views on relationship's as a important part human nature has been deconstructed. But he's still the same condesending jerk he always has been haha. You have to expect after so many year's (not that seven is that long but it's long enough), that the quality is going to diminish and wane a bit after a while, it's just cannot have the same impact it used too. But that does not mean Season 7 is not as good as Season 1, 2, or 3 it's just different but still very very good if not better. These character's have all outgrown the initial premise of not only the show, but also the premise of the character's, they all wanted change. Did Penny want to feel isolated and date the same dumb guy's over and over, no it was a cry for help she had serious intimacy issues, she has now deconstructed her standard's when it come's to guy's, she always wanted a tall, strong, handsome, guy to take care of her, and she presumed it had to be her social equal hence why she dated a certain type. Just like I suspose Leonard dated women who was more his social equal, I.E Stephanie, Priya, Joyce Kim e.t.c. But the thing is all she wanted deep down was a guy like Leonard, who not only saw her as a Queen but treated her like one.

 

The early year's are great for nostalgia, and not everyone is ever going to accept the fact show is better now then it was in the first three season's, the world is a huge place, it's like telling how many rock's their are, everyone is different. But personally I would of stopped watching a long time ago if the show remained the same going around in a never ending cycle, effectively entering a state of homeostasis, the character's changing and growing particularly in their relationship's, has given the writer's room for improvement from the core premise of the show, and more storyline's and character and plot development. That woulden't of happen if the premise of the show 4 eggheads meeting the hot chick, never developed into 4 people and the hot chick who is now fully integrated into the group, and is now dating the King of the Nerd's, and she is his Queen ;) haha. And another nerd is now married, and the indian nerd is still single, and beleive it or not the person who was voted most likely to reproduce or have his home planet come down to earth to bring him back home, then to get a girlfriend actually has a girlfriend haha. Not everyone has warmed to Amy and Bernadette from the get go, hey I'm guilty I hated Amy and Bernadette when they were introduced, it wasen't neccessarily their character's, it was just this idea of thing's changing. But bringing their character's into the show allowed the writer's to progress the show, tbh if it wasen't for their inclusion the show's rating's woulden't be so high now. When you think about it Penny other then her cheerleader type girlfriend's, had no real girlfriend's. Having Amy and especially Bernadette in her life (albiet their get together's sitting around, which I have never really liked but anyway), has had a huge influence on her life, and her relationship with Leonard. For the record though the whole song thing was a sign of continuity from the writer's, more then a sign they are running out of idea's. It was the anniversay of Howard and Bernadette's first date, and also from last week's ep when Howard was kinda a dick to Bernadette. I thought it wsa a fresh approach, but that's JMO.

Edited by 3ku11
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Let me go on record to say: I LOVED OLD HOWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, I really did, and do love "old " Howard, mainly because I think that Simon Helberg did an amazing job of being creepy, but likable. Even if his conduct was appaling you (or actually I) could never hate him and kind of wished he'd succeed once in a while. That being said I WOULD NOT love for Howard to still be that way because it wouldn't make any sense. He grew up, he changed, he found someone he truly loves and is having an adult relationship for the first time in his life. He is (slowly) learning to become a man. And while he may no longer be "creepy but likable" now he can be "funny and sensitive" to a certain extent. I really enjoy the way Simon can play both comedy and "drama" (or the more serious moments) with equal aplomb. And with that, I apologize that my whole post is about Simon/Howard because this is the Lenny thread, but was pointing out my views about an issue raised some posts ago.

Edited by Carlos
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You know what would maybe work, if they didn't screw with relationships, except for funny stuff, they could concentrate on more science, work and group funny situations. Things like the scavenger hunt were very funny and no ones relationship was broken up. The tenure and parking spot episodes were good too. I still don't see why they dropped paintball either, one adding all the girls would be funny, especially if Leonard and Penny went missing for a little while and Sheldon insisted on knowing why.

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You know what would maybe work, if they didn't screw with relationships, except for funny stuff, they could concentrate on more science, work and group funny situations. Things like the scavenger hunt were very funny and no ones relationship was broken up. The tenure and parking spot episodes were good too. I still don't see why they dropped paintball either, one adding all the girls would be funny, especially if Leonard and Penny went missing for a little while and Sheldon insisted on knowing why.

I believe I read a fanfic with this, but don't remember the title or author at the moment.

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I'm wondering if they are setting up a serious fight between Bernie and Howard with respect to Raj. "The Workplace Proximity" pointed that Bernie is a little unhappy with the amount of time Howard spends with him.

Good question. They do sometimes foreshadow issues brought up in a later show.

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In the latest new episode, they seem to be good, but Howard was working hard for Bernie. Raj is still his go to bud, and there is that more than buds undercurrent going. Bernie's going to have a problem with that before long.

After rewatching the last new episode, I've decided I was wrong about the song and the romance scene with Leonard and Penny. It actually does work out for me. Penny pulls out three things from the box. More would be too many.

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When are November sweeps? I wondering if the stunt casting of Bob Newhart was sufficient for that, or are they going to pull other rabbits out..

 

November Sweeps began on October 31th through November 27th

 

I don't know about the other part of your post.

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This year they are from 31 October to 27 November. As a result of this past Thursday being Halloween and TBBT running a repeat, there will only be three TBBT shows during sweeps. 7.07 The Proton Displacement, 7.08 The Itchy Brain Simulation, and 7.09 The Thanksgiving Decoupling are the three episodes that will run during sweeps. Sweeps end the day before Thanksgiving. We'll have to wait and see what the plot points for 7.09 are.

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November Sweeps began on October 31th through November 27th

 

I don't know about the other part of your post.

Thanks. I wasn't sure what weeks they used for the ad rate calculations, but apparently the whole month effectively. As I don't see where we have any spoilers past the next episode, it will be interesting to see the big plot twists to hook us over the holiday break. The ground is pretty fertile, but likely Penny and Leonard will be spectators this time around.
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Thanks. I wasn't sure what weeks they used for the ad rate calculations, but apparently the whole month effectively. As I don't see where we have any spoilers past the next episode, it will be interesting to see the big plot twists to hook us over the holiday break. The ground is pretty fertile, but likely Penny and Leonard will be spectators this time around.

I think Shamy well be the competitors this time around in the sweeps. 

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I really don't think they will ignore Leonard and Penny for three episodes. I would guess that since they are having a Thanksgiving Episode there will be couples stuff in that episode.

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