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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


Disgusted
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I'm sorry I have to disagree. If we can give Penny a break on marrying her ex because she had a stupid moment, then we can give Alex a break because she is filled with goofy juice, quoting Sheldon, and has a strong crush on Leonard. I would love to see Leonard with a girl that adored him, even for a little while.

 

Except Alex hit on a guy, repeatedly, while well aware that he was in a relationship. Penny married a guy thinking the whole thing was a fun and elaborate game of pretend (something many Vegas chapels do) probably in an attempt to try and make herself happy with someone who wasn't Leonard. Did you pay any attention to Romance Resonance? Penny clearly adores Leonard, even if she has trouble putting it into words. She's a person who shows things through her actions, such as working to get an annulment finalized within hours of realizing what she did, rather than sit around moping about it without taking steps to change it (as Leonard undoubtedly would in the situation, as seen by the fact that he chooses to stay miserable in living with someone he can't stand for over ten years).  

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I think one of the things this episode shows us is that Penny was still partying after she broke up with Leonard, she was not the nun people thought she was. She went out with Zack a lot it seems, she was in a sort of relationship with him, so he is truly an ex to her and Leonard knows it. So why would he be upset to find out she married her ex, 4 years or yesterday doesn't make a difference. I didn't know, is not an excuse and if Leonard was a normal man, Penny would be in real hot water.

I've changed my mind, I am thinking a break up for them might be good, so we can explore the Leonard/Alex chemistry.

 

It seems to me they are mining the past for stories and filling in blanks. It's disconcerting that they play so hard and wacky occaisionaly. Leonard's dire mother story with Ping Pong paddles and the pair playing psych wars, and now Mrs Johnson, on the face of it the stupidest women alive. These are truly awful back stories, brought to the fore. It's a type of brinksmanship, I feel. "How hard can we push the L/P, now we have the people's trust that it won't break". I have thought before that they don't have to break them up and that they can explore the consequences of Penny and Leonard's choice of each other. This is one of those things. She WAS a fall down drinker at one point and Leonard knows that, or is now finding out more about what that might mean. The upside is they have a chance to set things right and she doesn't have to behave that way again.

I'm sure performance will lift this. Leonard will look concerned and angry, Penny will look angry and I hope anguished and the bits with Sheldon and the others will dilute the pain. And the serialisation of the report was a marvellous device for fuelling speculation and emotion. :)

( @SRAM, I can't see Alex as a nice person. She was smart enough to know what she was doing when she hit on Leonard. Penny at least had no intent to marry Zack. Ignorant before and after the fact. Disappointingly so.)

 

I think one of the things this episode shows us is that Penny was still partying after she broke up with Leonard, she was not the nun people thought she was. She went out with Zack a lot it seems, she was in a sort of relationship with him, so he is truly an ex to her and Leonard knows it. So why would he be upset to find out she married her ex, 4 years or yesterday doesn't make a difference. I didn't know, is not an excuse and if Leonard was a normal man, Penny would be in real hot water.

I've changed my mind, I am thinking a break up for them might be good, so we can explore the Leonard/Alex chemistry.

I agree that they are making up stories that gives the audience the idea of a break up. I find it inconceivable at this point it's going to happen. it's too late in the game. in regards to Zack IMO the time frame of them together was the end of season 3 to the new years costume party. It could have been just three dates. The last two being thanksgiving and new years. who knows really. They didn't appear to be together when Amy was eyeing him. Obviously she wasn't a nun. In regards to Alex an appearance by her would be good. A Raj date so Penny could be uncomfortable and jealous. Leonard did tell Penny though that nothing was going to happen with Alex so anything happening between the two would make Leonard the villain.

Edited by Chrismo
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." It would just be cruel, I think. I really don't want to see Alex and Leonard ever really date. 

 

That said, I don't hold Alex's crush against her. What I do dislike about her is that she denied the truth to Sheldon, and then turned him over to the mercies of HR when she knew, she had to know, Sheldon had a point. She DID ask out Leonard, and then acted like she didn't. I feel that Alex probably should have known or been aware that Sheldon and Leonard are best friends and roommates, so maybe she really should have expected that Sheldon would have been very upset by her behavior, and that Sheldon would be protective of Leonard. If Alex knew them all well, she'd know that Sheldon would be protective of Leonard and Penny both, as well as their relationship. I feel that Alex was dishonest, and felt embarrassed by Sheldon coming down on her, and she retaliated in a way by turning him into HR. She caused a lot of issues for all of the boys that way, and it really wasn't cool.

 

Not that I hate her or anything, that just really wasn't cool.

 

 

I agree with the Alex and leonard dating being cruel. Alex asked Leonard out in L/S apartment. I don't really think it was work related. Inappropriate considering she meet Penny and knew about her yes. Sheldon showed her STD books at the workplace. He deserved to be turned into HR. The thing is how well did she know the group. Not well IMO. It was a situation Leonard should of handled. It shouldn't of been something Sheldon was involved in.

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Lionne, I think Leonard is very jealous of Zack, remember he had to watch the love of his life kiss him on New Years, so her being married to him is bad, Zack is the exact opposite of him.

Also Zack and Penny went out even more, because he stated that the reason he came out with laminated menus was because on one of their dates, Penny got drunk and threw up on the menu.

They could take a break and see other people and not have sex, because they can't bring themselves to do it with another person, while Penny gets her divorce. Leonard can see Alex some and be upfront with her, telling her he doesn't know what is going to happen between him and Penny. It could delay Leonard and Penny, then when they get back together, she proposes. I don't like the way they are right now.

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I think you and I am on somewhat the same page. As a matter of fact since the "annulment"  process just started we are going to have to hear about it again. There's a lot of unanswered questions. where were they married at? I'm almost willing to bet there was no "real" wedding and in fact they were never married. @disgusted reference to fake weddings is a definite possibilty. To me Sheldon getting all over Penny's case about the Vegas wedding seems to be one of his best moments ever. Part of the problem yesterday for many of us was that the person who did the taping report (and did a wonderful job) did over almost a 24 hr. period and thus left people to imagine what was going to happen.  There was no way Penny was going to look good in this episode anyways but this made it 100 times worse. You are right though I thought a wedding proposal was coming to Leonard.  I thought this annulment was a hoax. Since it wasn't I'm glad I was wrong. As to the people who wanted some big apology out of Penny thats sort of OOC for her. She admitted a couple times she screwed up getting married. Everyone knows that. Others pointed that if the shoe was the other foot she would have went ballistic IDK. She went ballistic with Leonard's proposal in bed but it was by themselves. This screw up was in front of the group.They all knew about it. Even H/B wedding Penny wasn't mentioning the proposal it was Leonard.

 

I don't think we are through with the 'annulment' storyline either and it will come back in the future at some point.  I agree that Sheldon reminding Penny how she treated Leonard when he proposal to her was right on the money and how I think some viewers will feel. I guess I was the only one that didn't think an proposal was coming in the episode and was so happy it didn't play out that way.

 

As for the bold part --- I have to say it's getting old that Penny can't apologize to Leonard when she hurts him, a sign of growth in a person is being able to step up and say I'm sorry to be person you hurt in this case Leonard. Do you remember how Penny didn't hesitate in apologizing to Sheldon once he told her 'she hurt his feelings' in 7.01, or how about Penny going to Amy and offering up an apology with Bernie when she found out they hurt Amy in 5.08 (these are just a few example).  If Penny can say to Sheldon and Amy she is sorry, then you have to ask why it's so hard for her to do right by Leonard. Why is it OOC for Penny to apologize to Leonard but not others? I would think Penny would be more concern with how she hurts Leonard as he is the one she is in a relationship with but that's just me and how I think relationships works. 

 

As for everyone knowing about Penny marrying Zack she is the one that brought it up to them (I guess Penny thought it added something to the conversation they were having at the time). I think the only reason Penny was embarrassed is due to it calling into question her decision-making in which once again she jumped into something without giving it a second thought and it came back to bite her in the butt. How could Penny really believe it was fake and meant nothing?  It's okay to live life to the fullest but in doing so it comes with consequences of which you may have to face at some time or another.

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Well Leonard is jealous and petty with any guy that might potentially look in Penny's direction, (well, unless he's trying to be a big shot and show her off like he did on the ship) so that's his problem, not hers. And I don't see how she needs to kiss his feet and beg forgiveness to Master Leonard when this was a mistake she made unknowingly and is working hard to fix.

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Nothing on the show, particularly with the Lenny storyline, is going exactly the way I want it to. I am dishonored. I must commit seppuku at once, as I can no longer live with this shame.

 

Sheldon: You're mocking me, aren't you?

Amy: Yes, I am.

 

(Sorry, I had to do it. I found all of the back and forth on the "Penny wedding" issue to be amusing at first, but now it's become tedious and ridiculous. I should probably just avoid this thread and the "S7 Spoilers" thread for the next few days, to let the topic run its course.)

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As for the bold part --- I have to say it's getting old that Penny can't apologize to Leonard when she hurts him, a sign of growth in a person is being able to step up and say I'm sorry to be person you hurt in this case Leonard. Do you remember how Penny didn't hesitate in apologizing to Sheldon once he told her 'she hurt his feelings' in 7.01, or how about Penny going to Amy and offering up an apology with Bernie when she found out they hurt Amy in 5.08 (these are just a few example).  If Penny can say to Sheldon and Amy she is sorry, then you have to ask why it's so hard for her to do right by Leonard. Why is it OOC for Penny to apologize to Leonard but not others? I would think Penny would be more concern with how she hurts Leonard as he is the one she is in a relationship with but that's just me and how I think relationships works. 

 

As for everyone knowing about Penny marrying Zack she is the one that brought it up to them (I guess Penny thought it added something to the conversation they were having at the time). I think the only reason Penny was embarrassed is due to it calling into question her decision-making in which once again she jumped into something without giving it a second thought and it came back to bite her in the butt. How could Penny really believe it was fake and meant nothing?  It's okay to live life to the fullest but in doing so it comes with consequences of which you may have to face at some time or another.

Thats a hard one. I think Leonard (obviously) is different from the rest. But in your example with Sheldon they were by themselves and he pointed it out to her. Has Leonard told her that she hurt his feelings? Even in this last episode I think Leonard wanted the "marriage" situation fixed and Penny fixed it. I agree Penny was stupid to think the wedding was fake but the fact is she did. Although I still think there is a certain % of people who think the weddings are fake. The one thing also with Penny/Sheldon is they IMO have almost always been honest with one another to the point of being overly blunt. This episode being an example. Leonard's reaction should have been more like Sheldon's. At times Leonard is too nice. When he is "tougher"with Penny like at the end of the Valentine's episode he get as better reaction out of her.

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Lorre seems to be obsessed with the original female character for TBBT. Not only have they tried to morph Penny into her, but now he has a show with two women that are basically the same as that character. I do enjoy watching "Mom", but the similarities are clear - women who were alcoholics trying to rebuild their life after many mistakes. It must be his fetish. Or he is obsessed with proving that his original idea for the female character in TBBT was right, and the people sceening it were somehow wrong.

I think we have to remember that neither Penny nor Leonard is emotionally sophisticated. This is the perfect sort of stupid thing that both of them will handle badly, and this is a lot of the show. Penny likely did many dumb things while separated from Leonard, and Leonard is going to hate that she had sex with any other guy. The whole marriage thing is another layer, as she reacts so badly to his proposals. Clearly she still has some explaining to do. If she is si committment phobic, why would she even play marry anyone? You would think that she would avoid anything that looks like committment, particularly as she is pining for Leonard.

The box proves that she was pining, and never really gave up in him. Leonard knows this, because of the asthma inhaler. It seems clear to me that,as has been mentioned, the key to Lenny is the small things. This marriage to Zach thing is a big mess, so it isn't a deal-breaker. It is just a mess. For me at least, the box tells the story. Penny won't let go, and deep down, Leoanrd knows it.

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 At times Leonard is too nice. When he is "tougher"with Penny like at the end of the Valentine's episode he get as better reaction out of her.

 

Maybe a good slap on the ass? 9 out of 10 Shamies approve of this method. :girldevil:

Edited by Disgusted
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Part of the problem is and I know this isn't PC but Leonard's the woman in the relationship and penny is the guy. But I think your wrong about her dismissing his feelings. She got Zack over immediately to sign the annulment papers. In this case IMO actions speak louder than words. Obviously the tag with the love or money was meant about Leonard. But i think the writers would put themselves in a box and fans would be in a frenzy if Penny mentioned when we get married.

 

On the bold part I know this is how it is being played so I have to ask why aren't more people screaming for Leonard to get of this relationship?  I mean if it was reverse and Leonard (was the traditional male role) was doing the things to Penny it would off with his head. 

 

As for being wrong on Penny dismissing Leonard's feelings, I hope I am but I think it was combination of two things her trying to undo one of her crazy decisions she made and then trying to make it right by Leonard.  I feel the writers have boxed themselves in on Lenny a long time ago, and I'm not talking about them getting married.

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Lorre seems to be obsessed with the original female character for TBBT. Not only have they tried to morph Penny into her, but now he has a show with two women that are basically the same as that character. I do enjoy watching "Mom", but the similarities are clear - women who were alcoholics trying to rebuild their life after many mistakes. It must be his fetish. Or he is obsessed with proving that his original idea for the female character in TBBT was right, and the people sceening it were somehow wrong.

I think we have to remember that neither Penny nor Leonard is emotionally sophisticated. This is the perfect sort of stupid thing that both of them will handle badly, and this is a lot of the show. Penny likely did many dumb things while separated from Leonard, and Leonard is going to hate that she had sex with any other guy. The whole marriage thing is another layer, as she reacts so badly to his proposals. Clearly she still has some explaining to do. If she is si committment phobic, why would she even play marry anyone? You would think that she would avoid anything that looks like committment, particularly as she is pining for Leonard.

The box proves that she was pining, and never really gave up in him. Leonard knows this, because of the asthma inhaler. It seems clear to me that,as has been mentioned, the key to Lenny is the small things. This marriage to Zach thing is a big mess, so it isn't a deal-breaker. It is just a mess. For me at least, the box tells the story. Penny won't let go, and deep down, Leoanrd knows it.

 

The asthmas inhaler was Leonard over thinking things about getting back with Penny in 5.13 so never happen per say on the show.

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Nothing on the show, particularly with the Lenny storyline, is going exactly the way I want it to. I am dishonored. I must commit seppuku at once, as I can no longer live with this shame.

 

Sheldon: You're mocking me, aren't you?

Amy: Yes, I am.

 

(Sorry, I had to do it. I found all of the back and forth on the "Penny wedding" issue to be amusing at first, but now it's become tedious and ridiculous. I should probably just avoid this thread and the "S7 Spoilers" thread for the next few days, to let the topic run its course.)

Yeah your probably right, I tend to go over to the dark side and stay there. But I am done, I'm probably repeating myself anyway. I also really pissed off someone who called me sexist in a PM, so that's not good.

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I think one of the things this episode shows us is that Penny was still partying after she broke up with Leonard, she was not the nun people thought she was. She went out with Zack a lot it seems, she was in a sort of relationship with him, so he is truly an ex to her and Leonard knows it. So why would he be upset to find out she married her ex, 4 years or yesterday doesn't make a difference. I didn't know, is not an excuse and if Leonard was a normal man, Penny would be in real hot water.

I've changed my mind, I am thinking a break up for them might be good, so we can explore the Leonard/Alex chemistry.

 

I agree it is about time Leonard acted more like a man. I would have left thanksgiving if I was Leonard and Zack was coming over. Unfortunately for Leonard Penny appreciates him most when he is gone. The best thing he could have done is walk out and say give me a call if/when it is fixed. Leonard did not need to subject himself to Zack's presence.

 

I don't think he needs to jump into another relationship but I think this one needs a break. He needs to get his head into his work for a while. Do some stuff with Raj.

 

Lorre seems to be obsessed with the original female character for TBBT. Not only have they tried to morph Penny into her, but now he has a show with two women that are basically the same as that character. I do enjoy watching "Mom", but the similarities are clear - women who were alcoholics trying to rebuild their life after many mistakes. It must be his fetish. Or he is obsessed with proving that his original idea for the female character in TBBT was right, and the people sceening it were somehow wrong.

I think we have to remember that neither Penny nor Leonard is emotionally sophisticated. This is the perfect sort of stupid thing that both of them will handle badly, and this is a lot of the show. Penny likely did many dumb things while separated from Leonard, and Leonard is going to hate that she had sex with any other guy. The whole marriage thing is another layer, as she reacts so badly to his proposals. Clearly she still has some explaining to do. If she is si committment phobic, why would she even play marry anyone? You would think that she would avoid anything that looks like committment, particularly as she is pining for Leonard.

The box proves that she was pining, and never really gave up in him. Leonard knows this, because of the asthma inhaler. It seems clear to me that,as has been mentioned, the key to Lenny is the small things. This marriage to Zach thing is a big mess, so it isn't a deal-breaker. It is just a mess. For me at least, the box tells the story. Penny won't let go, and deep down, Leoanrd knows it.

 

I agree with what you said about Lorre and the original "Penny" but I don't watch Mom.

 

I'm glad you brought up the point "If she is si committment phobic, why would she even play marry anyone?" Leonard should be asking that question!

 

The box thing proves nothing. Apparently Penny really does not know what she is doing. She could save those things because she is pinning or because he was a conquest and she likes to make fun of him. Saving a negative pregnancy test says more the latter. She could have been saving stuff because she is a packrat.

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Thats a hard one. I think Leonard (obviously) is different from the rest. But in your example with Sheldon they were by themselves and he pointed it out to her. Has Leonard told her that she hurt his feelings? Even in this last episode I think Leonard wanted the "marriage" situation fixed and Penny fixed it. I agree Penny was stupid to think the wedding was fake but the fact is she did. Although I still think there is a certain % of people who think the weddings are fake. The one thing also with Penny/Sheldon is they IMO have almost always been honest with one another to the point of being overly blunt. This episode being an example. Leonard's reaction should have been more like Sheldon's. At times Leonard is too nice. When he is "tougher"with Penny like at the end of the Valentine's episode he get as better reaction out of her.

 

Is it really about Leonard being too nice or more about Penny only knowing men that treated her badly before meeting Leonard and thought that is how relationships worked? 

 

Do I wish Leonard would give back as good as he get, you bet.  I just don't feel the writers will ever let Leonard be "tougher" due to the role reversal.

Edited by ArmyGirl
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The box thing proves nothing. Apparently Penny really does not know what she is doing. She could save those things because she is pinning or because he was a conquest and she likes to make fun of him. Saving a negative pregnancy test says more the latter. She could have been saving stuff because she is a packrat.

 

Don't serial killers keep mementoes of their victims?

 

Man, I am on FIRE!  :diablo: 

Edited by Disgusted
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I agree it is about time Leonard acted more like a man. I would have left thanksgiving if I was Leonard and Zack was coming over. Unfortunately for Leonard Penny appreciates him most when he is gone. The best thing he could have done is walk out and say give me a call if/when it is fixed. Leonard did not need to subject himself to Zack's presence.

 

 

But he printed out the paperwork and Penny got Zack to come over to sign. It's what we wanted. Why would Leonard leave? IT would give him and the others more time to ridicule Zack and Penny. 

Heads up Kaley is on Ellen DeGeneres today.

Ironically Kaley and her fiancee had a fake wedding ceremony on the show. Its on youtube.

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But he printed out the paperwork and Penny got Zack to come over to sign. It's what we wanted. Why would Leonard leave? IT would give him and the others more time to ridicule Zack and Penny. 

He printed out the paper work but he did not intend that Zack would be coming over for thanksgiving. Penny inviting anyone over to Howard's mother's place is ludicrous (it is not her house and she is there with Leonard). Inviting Zack over under the circumstances was insane. She could have met him at some nearby coffee shop or the next day.

 

I don't think Leonard wants to ridicule Zack and Penny or to see Zack with Penny.

Edited by djsurrey

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Lionne, I think Leonard is very jealous of Zack, remember he had to watch the love of his life kiss him on New Years, so her being married to him is bad, Zack is the exact opposite of him.

Also Zack and Penny went out even more, because he stated that the reason he came out with laminated menus was because on one of their dates, Penny got drunk and threw up on the menu.

They could take a break and see other people and not have sex, because they can't bring themselves to do it with another person, while Penny gets her divorce. Leonard can see Alex some and be upfront with her, telling her he doesn't know what is going to happen between him and Penny. It could delay Leonard and Penny, then when they get back together, she proposes. I don't like the way they are right now.

 

 

I literally have no other words for this besides no. Sorry, but no.

 

I actually have to say im pretty shocked at how much this has blown up! I knew there was gonna be a bit of freaking out but this is much more than i expected! I just dont see the big deal. Bad choice of words maybe because i know Penny getting married is a big deal but i just dont feel the same as most of you seem to on here. I'm actually pretty happy with the overall episode. Sure, it could have gone better and i could have done without this whole 'Penny gets married in Vegas' thing, but it really isnt the worst thing ever for them. The scene with Zack made me laugh, honestly if she was gonna marry one of her exes im so glad it was him! Hes a complete moron but hes actually really sweet too.

 

The way i see it, Penny got drunk and silly and thought that the ultra tacky looking churches were actually for fake weddings. Maybe Zack said they were and she believed him. One of them thought it would be just hilarious to have a fake wedding (possibly after listening to Bruno Mars' Marry You a few times!) the other thought it was a great idea, probably a decision helped along by tequila, or vodka, who knows, maybe both. I would say was gullible, not stupid.  I'm pretty sure Penny knows that weddings in Vegas are real, but maybe she just thought that fake weddings in vegas existed too, is that really such a stupid thing to believe? Someone on chat on this forum once told me that Canadians dont use toilet paper and i believed them. My dad once told my mum that sausages grow on trees and she believed him. Believing that Vegas actually do fake weddings as well as real ones? that doesnt seem like such a hard thing to believe to me. At the end of the day, the whole thing meant so little to her, that after it happened she didnt bother about it. Because there was no way she would actually get married in Vegas to Zack, right? She thought it was fake and with not having anyone there to say, well maybe it wasn't she just put it to the back of her mind as something funny she done. Like getting drunk on space mountain. A funny story to tell, no big deal.

 

I can completely understand the way Penny reacted when she found out, that doesnt mean it was right, but i understand it. She was embarrased. She knew she was wrong and she admitted that. She was going to take care of it, and she told Leonard that. When he persisted with it (which im not saying was wrong of him btw but ill get to Leonard in a minute) she got angry. It was bringing up how silly she had been again and all she wanted him to do was let it go, not because she didnt want to stay married to the guy, but because she was dealing with it, and she just wanted to stop talking about it. I cant tell you how many times ive got mad at people for getting on my back about doing something when i've said i will do it. It wasnt like she was doing nothing about it, look how fast she got in touch with Zack. She knew that she had to get that thing sorted as soon as possible and i love that she just got right on it. It actually shows some level of maturity from her to be able to just deal with it, instead of putting it off. She wanted that thing over, and she got it done.

 

Now, Leonards reaction is something i can understand too. He was hurt and upset, and rightly so. It was a shock and he wanted nothing more than for her to get it annulled as fast as possible, and he made sure she didn't forget about it until she had. I just love that in the car after finding out what happened he just said 'you are taking care of this'. there was no discussion. He never said 'so, what are you going to do about this?' leaving what was going to happen next open to her, he just told her she was fixing it, with the undertone of 'if you dont take care of this, we will have a problem'. Take charge Leonard at his best and i love it. Ad so does Penny. ;)

 

The way it ended was perfect, to me, because she was letting him know that she had no intention of doing that again, that the next time she gets married it was going to be for love (and that she loves him and he will be the one she marries)! She didnt say that last part of course but I think its what the whole scene implies. :)

 

I really do think a lot of you are focusing on the negatives here and forgetting about the fact that at the end, they were happy. He forgave her silly mistake and she made that promise to never do something so silly again. We ended on a good note. I see only good things for these two from now on, and with the whole marriage thing recently brought up again, it plants that proposal seed in our girls head. I dont know if we will see a proposal this season, but i think if this whole vegas wedding has any other reason for being brought up, its not as a reason to break them up, but to pull them closer together. :wub:  :wub:

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He printed out the paper work but he did not intend that Zack would be coming over for thanksgiving. Penny inviting anyone over to Howard's mother's place is ludicrous (it is not her house and she is there with Leonard). Inviting Zack over under the circumstances was insane. She could have met him at some nearby coffee shop.

On Thanksgiving. I think the idea though was to try to make it funny. I'm guessing most people may not look at it that way.

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