Jump to content
In Memoriam: Mike (walnutcowboy) has passed away

Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


Disgusted
 Share

Recommended Posts

Actually, she says they went out a couple of time last year.  When Amy asks if going out meant sex, Penny says not always, but in this case yes.   If the Thanksgiving trip occurred in season four it would have occurred just before Alien Parasite.  I find it hard to believe that Penny wouldn't have mentioned she just spent Thanksgiving with him, in Vegas, the week before, when she tells them she went out with him the previous year.

4 years seems to be the number in CA law for time limits on annulments. Maybe that's where they got it. Oh, and its not over yet....

Annulment.

More information about the grounds for nullity, as well as time limits for filing for an annulment, are available from the California Family Code, §§ 2210 et seq. Annulments are very rare. If you ask to have your marriage or domestic partnership annulled, you will have to go to hearing with a judge. To file for an annulment, one party must reside in the county where the papers are filed at the time the case is started. There is no required length of residency.

Edited by Disgusted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 years seems to be the number in CA law for time limits on annulments. Maybe that's where they got it. Oh, and its not over yet....Annulment.More information about the grounds for nullity, as well as time limits for filing for an annulment, are available from the California Family Code, §§ 2210 et seq. Annulments are very rare. If you ask to have your marriage or domestic partnership annulled, you will have to go to hearing with a judge. To file for an annulment, one party must reside in the county where the papers are filed at the time the case is started. There is no required length of residency.

Someone mentioned a larger story arc with this and now we know Penny and Zack were dating a lot more than we thought. I wonder if this means we will see Priya again too, in the future?

Edited by SRAM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, she says they went out a couple of time last year.  When Amy asks if going out meant sex, Penny says not always, but in this case yes.   If the Thanksgiving trip occurred in season four it would have occurred just before Alien Parasite.  I find it hard to believe that Penny wouldn't have mentioned she just spent Thanksgiving with him, in Vegas, the week before, when she tells them she went out with him the previous year.

 

the writers got the idea that penny went to vegas and married zack recently.... :p :p ... that's why penny did not mention it.....

Edited by vasu
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I for one will be hoping this was 1 episode, they made Penny feel terrible, they made fun of Zack, it's done and over with. End of story! What possible reason to haul them off to court? Just to make them even more foolish? JMHO but I am wishing that it's done! She made a mistake which she realize, Leonard apologized for pushing so hard, she said marriage is no joke. Just let it go at this point!

Someone mentioned a larger story arc with this and now we know Penny and Zack were dating a lot more than we thought. I wonder if this means we will see Priya again too, in the future?

I sincerely hope not. I never liked Priya. To me she was never funny! Of all the girls Leonard has dated while not dating Penny I disliked her the most. She certainly was pretty but whenever she was in a scene it was like fingernails against a chalkboard for me.

Edited by SodidIwin?
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Penny wear the locket this episode?

It will be interesting to see if she wears the locket in the Thanksgiving Day episode. Especially when they go to the dinner. It seems to me she wears it now more on special occasions rather than all the time like Bernie does with Howard's star necklace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, she says they went out a couple of time last year.  When Amy asks if going out meant sex, Penny says not always, but in this case yes.   If the Thanksgiving trip occurred in season four it would have occurred just before Alien Parasite.  I find it hard to believe that Penny wouldn't have mentioned she just spent Thanksgiving with him, in Vegas, the week before, when she tells them she went out with him the previous year.

I brought it up and gave myself a headache. In theory it could of been a couple weeks before. I agree it seems strange it wouldn't be mentioned. I don't think they went out a lot. 4or 5 times maybe. I agree with @vasu though the writers came up with idea and it reality they really didn't do the math. I still think it's going to come out that they were never really married.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So tell me if I got this right, it seems Penny was seeing Zack quite a bit before Leonard and Priya got together and we know it hurt Leonard to see her with Zack. So why should we feel any more sympathy for her when Leonard dated Priya and she seemed hurt sometimes. It seems to me they both went through a bad time only at different times.

 

 

We can't assume that.  She said she went out with him a couple of time the previous year.  The only time that would fit would be the the time between her and Leonard breaking up and her leaving him at the party.    After that, this is the first mention of them going out, prior to Justice League.  I'll grant that there were probably a two or three, but not a lot.   After all, Penny allowing Amy to go after him the week after going with him to Vegas wouldn't  indicate any kind of a lot of dating.

 

I'll qualify all my statements with the writers are notorious for a lack of continuity.   This whole thing doesn't fit, at all, into previously shown timelines.   

4 years seems to be the number in CA law for time limits on annulments. Maybe that's where they got it. Oh, and its not over yet....

Annulment.

More information about the grounds for nullity, as well as time limits for filing for an annulment, are available from the California Family Code, §§ 2210 et seq. Annulments are very rare. If you ask to have your marriage or domestic partnership annulled, you will have to go to hearing with a judge. To file for an annulment, one party must reside in the county where the papers are filed at the time the case is started. There is no required length of residency.

 

 

Somewhere around here, (It may be in season seven spoilers) I provided a link to the California laws concerning annulment.  Annulments have to go through the court and the petitioners have to provide evidence for the reason for the annulment and the court has to approve evidence as a legitimate reason for the  annulment.  If the court decides the evidence does not provide enough to say the reason is valid, then the petitioners have to actually file for divorce.  One point the website makes is to file for annulment, and then also file for divorce, in case the annulment is refused(along with getting a lawyer).   As you point out, most of the reasons for annulment have a four year limit, but for "not being able to understand" doesn't have such a limit.

the writers got the idea that penny went to vegas and married zack recently.... :p :p ... that's why penny did not mention it.....

 

 

Yeah, the writers well known dedication to providing continuity for the show.  (where's Disgusted's sarcasm sign when I need it?)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I brought it up and gave myself a headache. In theory it could of been a couple weeks before. I agree it seems strange it wouldn't be mentioned. I don't think they went out a lot. 4or 5 times maybe. I agree with @vasu though the writers came up with idea and it reality they really didn't do the math. I still think it's going to come out that they were never really married.

Then you too think this is not over and will be addressed again, so maybe there is larger story arc.

Since this is California, I find it hard to believe that the writers would just think an annulment would end a marriage after 4 years. This is a show about nerds, watched by nerds, so we are not so easily fooled by technical aspects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well of course it wasn't mentioned back then--the idea didn't exist back then, but was "retro-fitted" into the time frame to make this storyline.

It's not as if they haven't done this kind of back-referencing before with what any of them might have done in the past.

 

At any rate, I think it doesn't help to overthink the timeframe or anything.  I think it's most likely going to be a one-and-done kind of story, regardless of the actual rules and laws concerning annulments, etc.

Having Zack show up to sign the papers seems to me a sign that it's done with.  If it were going to be an ongoing story or issue, they wouldn't have bothered with having Zack show up.

 

I also don't think his presence in this episode means that he's going to be showing up more often.  I think that it's a matter of who they could use for this story line.  It's much easier to have it be Zack that she was randomly dating, since we already know him, who was dumb enough that between them they didn't realize the wedding was real, and then have him show up at the end with his dopey lines, etc.

 

It's  much easier than having to create some new persona and try to establish the backstory, etc.  The audience knows Zack, knows his timeframe (roughly) and knows that Penny had casually dated him a few times in the past.  The audience also knows that he's harmless as a past boyfriend because Penny was never invested in him emotionally.

 

And I don't think that the idea of Penny and Zack is really hurtful to Leonard.  He had that one moment of pain in seeing them kissing on New Year's Eve after he had done his best to make things right with Zack and for Penny that night, but in that moment we also saw that Penny wasn't really all that into Zack, but was aware of Leonard's reaction.

 

Even so, she moved on pretty quickly from that moment--and Leonard started dating Priya just after that, so it's not like he was crying in his cereal over it all this time.

 

Anyway, there won't be any long-term consequence with Zack over this and I doubt that it will be an ongoing issue apart from perhaps some joking reference at some point.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I brought it up and gave myself a headache. In theory it could of been a couple weeks before. I agree it seems strange it wouldn't be mentioned. I don't think they went out a lot. 4or 5 times maybe. I agree with @vasu though the writers came up with idea and it reality they really didn't do the math. I still think it's going to come out that they were never really married.

 

Note the bold.  They didn't do the math, they didn't bother to check what went on in other episodes, the whole thing just doesn't fit, but they wanted to do this story, so they really don't care if it fits completely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 This is a show about nerds, watched by nerds, .........

 

I think, not so much anymore.

 

On a different note, I think the recent Leonard/Proton scene regarding Sheldon shows that Leonard has a deep need to be needed, if that makes sense.....

Edited by Disgusted
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't remember who said they didn't really do arches and that if they came up with an idea they just go with it.  So continuity has always been thrown out the door and we have more than enough example of this.

 

I will admit there have been a few times where there was continuity on the show and I always found it so strange, and like a shock to your system since TBBT writers aren't know for it.


sarcasm.gif

 

I think this needs to be added to Smiley list.

Edited by ArmyGirl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that people really need to consider something before they go all crazy about the taping report, and that is  Why the episode was made. And, no it was not just to have an  excuse to bring Zack back into the show they've done that before and could easily do it again without doing it this way. There is however a very significant storytelling reason for having the episode. Each episode is a story, but the show as a whole is also its own story and needs to be thought of as such. The storytellers created an internal conflict (Penny's commitment issues) which blocks the advancement of the protagonists toward their ultimate goal (Leonard and Penny getting married), since the conflict is internal and the storytelling style does not provide for internal dialogue any movement toward resolving the conflict has to be seen externally. Penny's commitment issues are psychological, but they are based on events from her past, so Penny dealing with her commitment issues is really Penny reconciling herself with her past. So this episode serves as Penny recognizing a mistake from her past that she needs to deal with, and more importantly recognizing that she is not the same person who made those mistakes, therefore she should not hold herself back from a happy future because of those mistakes. I think we really only need one more episode to completely deal with her commitment issues, and I'm pretty sure it will require bringing in Kurt (or some other ex who can represent all of her exes) to juxtapose him with Leonard so Penny can see that Leonard is nothing like Kurt and therefore any doubts she has about her future stemming from experiences with other boyfriends don't apply to her future with Leonard.

 

Just my thoughts on all of that.

 

Also, last night's episode was great and I don't think it was all that harsh on Penny, especially since she was really the only one that even cared about Raj's feelings.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, she says they went out a couple of time last year.  When Amy asks if going out meant sex, Penny says not always, but in this case yes.   If the Thanksgiving trip occurred in season four it would have occurred just before Alien Parasite.  I find it hard to believe that Penny wouldn't have mentioned she just spent Thanksgiving with him, in Vegas, the week before, when she tells them she went out with him the previous year.

Actually what they said was.

Bernadette: He’s really cute. How do you know him?

Penny: Oh, we went out a couple of times.

Amy: I’m often flummoxed by current slang. Does went out mean had intercourse?

Bernadette: Yes.

Penny: No, no. But in this case, yes.

Amy: Interesting. And was it not satisfactory?

Penny: No, it was great. He just didn’t really challenge me on an intellectual level.

 

I agree, that it was odd that she didn't mention Thanksgiving in Vegas. Perhaps she was drunk during the entire trip, and only remembered it later. Or repressed the entire thing for a while.

Edited by eirwinrommel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually what they said was.

Bernadette: He’s really cute. How do you know him?

Penny: Oh, we went out a couple of times.

Amy: I’m often flummoxed by current slang. Does went out mean had intercourse?

Bernadette: Yes.

Penny: No, no. But in this case, yes.

Amy: Interesting. And was it not satisfactory?

Penny: No, it was great. He just didn’t really challenge me on an intellectual level.

 

I agree, that it was odd that she didn't mention Thanksgiving in Vegas. Perhaps she was drunk during the entire trip, and only remembered it later. Or repressed the entire thing for a while.

You know what is funny, she never tells the girls sex with Leonard is great. She says he tries hard or it is okay to them. However, to him, she calls him a genius, we see her happy after having sex with him and she doesn't seem hesitant to grab him when she wants sex, so what's up with that? Is she keeping the truth about her little stud muffin from the girls or is she just stroking Leonard's ego?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that people really need to consider something before they go all crazy about the taping report, and that is  Why the episode was made. And, no it was not just to have an  excuse to bring Zack back into the show they've done that before and could easily do it again without doing it this way. There is however a very significant storytelling reason for having the episode. Each episode is a story, but the show as a whole is also its own story and needs to be thought of as such. The storytellers created an internal conflict (Penny's commitment issues) which blocks the advancement of the protagonists toward their ultimate goal (Leonard and Penny getting married), since the conflict is internal and the storytelling style does not provide for internal dialogue any movement toward resolving the conflict has to be seen externally. Penny's commitment issues are psychological, but they are based on events from her past, so Penny dealing with her commitment issues is really Penny reconciling herself with her past. So this episode serves as Penny recognizing a mistake from her past that she needs to deal with, and more importantly recognizing that she is not the same person who made those mistakes, therefore she should not hold herself back from a happy future because of those mistakes. I think we really only need one more episode to completely deal with her commitment issues, and I'm pretty sure it will require bringing in Kurt (or some other ex who can represent all of her exes) to juxtapose him with Leonard so Penny can see that Leonard is nothing like Kurt and therefore any doubts she has about her future stemming from experiences with other boyfriends don't apply to her future with Leonard.

 

Just my thoughts on all of that.

 

Also, last night's episode was great and I don't think it was all that harsh on Penny, especially since she was really the only one that even cared about Raj's feelings.

I generally agree with everything you said. I don't think they need though to bring back Kurt or another ex. What makes Zack a good choice was he was a fair representation of Penny's past and the guys all new Zack. The annulment/divorce/? should be that one more episode. Sheldon(and Amy) being there with Leonard was also a key. Leonard may or may not let Penny off the hook. But since Sheldon knew Zack him ripping on her about it was based on knowledge. Just as Leonard backed Sheldon in the Proton episode Sheldon definitely backed him up on this one. Another point is no one knows Penny/Leonard better than Sheldon and his comments would be more effective to them than anyone elses. I think in a way it gave Leonard confidence and Penny the reality how much screwed up and this isn't the person she wants to be. I think seeing Zack at Thanksgiving dinner helped with that also making Leonard really looks like a great catch.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually what they said was.

Bernadette: He’s really cute. How do you know him?

Penny: Oh, we went out a couple of times.

Amy: I’m often flummoxed by current slang. Does went out mean had intercourse?

Bernadette: Yes.

Penny: No, no. But in this case, yes.

Amy: Interesting. And was it not satisfactory?

Penny: No, it was great. He just didn’t really challenge me on an intellectual level.

 

I agree, that it was odd that she didn't mention Thanksgiving in Vegas. Perhaps she was drunk during the entire trip, and only remembered it later. Or repressed the entire thing for a while.

 

Again, since the idea for this story couldn't possibly have been in the writers' minds back then, there would be no reason for her to have mentioned it.

At that time, this trip to Vegas with Zack didn't exist in anyone's mind, so there was no reason for her to mention it.

 

The writers simply retro-fitted this story into that timeframe, with a little fudging.

 

And even if you want to pretend, Penny wouldn't have mentioned every single thing she had done with Zack in this little conversation.  She wasn't giving them the details of all of her interactions with Zack, just letting Amy know how she knew Zack and why she hadn't bothered continuing the relationship.  There was no need to say anything more at the time.

 

But the primary reason she didn't mention her trip to Vegas with him was that it didn't exist at the time this conversation was written.

You know what is funny, she never tells the girls sex with Leonard is great. She says he tries hard or it is okay to them. However, to him, she calls him a genius, we see her happy after having sex with him and she doesn't seem hesitant to grab him when she wants sex, so what's up with that? Is she keeping the truth about her little stud muffin from the girls or is she just stroking Leonard's ego?

 

Maybe because sex with Leonard is about love, not just sexual prowess or technique.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, since the idea for this story couldn't possibly have been in the writers' minds back then, there would be no reason for her to have mentioned it.

At that time, this trip to Vegas with Zack didn't exist in anyone's mind, so there was no reason for her to mention it.

 

The writers simply retro-fitted this story into that timeframe, with a little fudging.

 

And even if you want to pretend, Penny wouldn't have mentioned every single thing she had done with Zack in this little conversation.  She wasn't giving them the details of all of her interactions with Zack, just letting Amy know how she knew Zack and why she hadn't bothered continuing the relationship.  There was no need to say anything more at the time.

 

But the primary reason she didn't mention her trip to Vegas with him was that it didn't exist at the time this conversation was written.

 

Maybe because sex with Leonard is about love, not just sexual prowess or technique.

Everything you say is true :) They are retconning this thing. Like, Han used to shoot first. Greebo was murdered, dammit.

And I don't perceive either that Penny actually disses Leonard about their love life. I think it's nice that there are things about themselves that they don't broadcast to the others. I don't know if it's a designed character trait that she has this one thing that she keeps private and understates or it's just turned out that way. People get cross that she is immodest, yet here is a bit of modesty. :)

.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen few posts about Leonard actions in the Alice-Priya episode which by the way is one of my favorites....here is how I see it and how I think writers intended it to be...

 

Leonard deep inside clearly knows going with Alice was wrong...but he really wanted to..so he tried getting others make it seem it was not bad.....but in the end he just could not go through with it and apologized to Priya immediately...

 

A story of a simple moral dilemma ... wonderfully done...

 

A similar story was again done in the same season.... When Sheldon toy breaks and he steals Leonard's but finally in the end he cannot go through with it because he knows it was wrong.... same moral dilemma ....same story ... same conclusion....wonderfully done.....

 

both of them knew it was wrong from the get go....but they really wanted to....but could not do it because they both are good guys at heart.....

 

Leonard    ---    Sheldon

Priya        ---     Broken Toy

Alice        ---      Leonard's toy

Penny     ---     spock doll

 

Now  I don't understand why some of you seem to think that what Leonard did was bad and that incident should make Penny or anyone doubt him....if that is the case then same should apply to Sheldon too....

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Leonard is someone who always the victim in his own mind, not happy unless he's miserable. The fact that he's spent the last ten years living with a person he can't just stand is proof of this. Unlike Penny, who took initiative right away when faced with the Zack situation, I think he'd just around and whine for the rest of his life if he were in her predicament, never doing anything about it.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about, and dislike Leonard as a character. OK, we get it! You've made you're point, over and over and over and over! But..... when you say something you have to base it in reason and not fantasy. It's not that Leonard can't stand Sheldon. I could go on and on about why not, but let me refer you to the second episode this season where both Leonard and Sheldon admit how important their friendship is to each other. Also in last nights's episode Leonard explains to Profesor Proton why he lives with Sheldon, so ....you are wrong.

 

You commend Penny's initiative, and I guess to a certain extent I do too. But.....Leonard WAS the victim in this case. I'm sorry, but no normal person can really believe that Vegas weddings are fake. There's stupid, and then there's STUPID. You literally have to be a moron. And I say this being a Lenny and actually liking Penny as a character, that's why it pisses me off when they write it as being so incredibly stupid.  And the bigger question is: even if she tought that the wedding was fake why would she, of all people, Penny the queen of commitment phobia, decide , to have fun , to have a fake wedding when she so fears the real thing?

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What Penny did was not STUPID. She had a gap in her knowledge, which was aggravated by making plans with a real idiot and what was probably copious amounts of alcohol and she made a decision. If you know something Penny didn't and if you are completely sober of course you can see that it's a mistake, but Penny doesn't have that advantage.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen few posts about Leonard actions in the Alice-Priya episode which by the way is one of my favorites....here is how I see it and how I think writers intended it to be...

 

Leonard deep inside clearly knows going with Alice was wrong...but he really wanted to..so he tried getting others make it seem it was not bad.....but in the end he just could not go through with it and apologized to Priya immediately...

 

A story of a simple moral dilemma ... wonderfully done...

 

A similar story was again done in the same season.... When Sheldon toy breaks and he steals Leonard's but finally in the end he cannot go through with it because he knows it was wrong.... same moral dilemma ....same story ... same conclusion....wonderfully done.....

 

both of them knew it was wrong from the get go....but they really wanted to....but could not do it because they both are good guys at heart.....

 

Leonard    ---    Sheldon

Priya        ---     Broken Toy

Alice        ---      Leonard's toy

Penny     ---     spock doll

 

Now  I don't understand why some of you seem to think that what Leonard did was bad and that incident should make Penny or anyone doubt him....if that is the case then same should apply to Sheldon too....

 

Because Sheldon was dealing with a broken toy, not real life relationships.  He lied about the toy at first, but quickly confessed--for each lie.  His switching his broken toy for Leonard's was wrong, but it was a spur-of-the-moment decision, not something he plotted to do deliberately to deceive Leonard and Penny.

 

Leonard was dealing with people and their feelings, not a toy.  Leonard thought about his planned infidelity for at least a couple of days.  Maybe Alice kissed him first, but he didn't kick her out of his apartment that first time, and then he tried to get Penny to tell him it was okay for him to cheat on Priya and lie to Alice.  And for all his momentary dilemma, he set out for Alice's place fully intending to sleep with her.  He only got cold feet at the last minute, but he would have stayed and made out with her (without the sex) if she hadn't kicked him out.  And he was even angry with himself for confessing to her that he had a girlfriend.

 

That he was remorseful when he called Priya was fine, but he had fully intended to cheat on her in the first place.

 

Sheldon's lie about the broken toy isn't on the same level as Leonard's behavior.

 

I don't know that Penny should doubt Leonard's fidelity toward her, but I do think that the incident made it evident that Leonard wasn't as in love with Priya as he wanted to pretend he was.  Like Mrs. Cooper told him--"You have to decide whether your in a relationship or if you're just calling it that."  I think that Leonard wanted to hang on to his relationship with Priya, and probably Priya wanted to at first as well, but in the end it wasn't much of a relationship.

And I think the way the story is being told, no matter who Leonard might have been dating at any time, Penny was the one he was really in love with.

Edited by phantagrae
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.