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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


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Now  I don't understand why some of you seem to think that what Leonard did was bad and that incident should make Penny or anyone doubt him....if that is the case then same should apply to Sheldon too....

One thing that has been very consistent about Penny is that since moving in with Kurt is that she has not cheated on someone or knowingly been with someone who was cheating. If Penny doubted Leonard, she wouldn't have gotten back together with him.

I qualified the timing to "moving in with Kurt" as she has admitted in various places and times that in high school in Nebraska, she pretty much didn't care if she cheated on or messed around with anybody who was cheating. I also put knowingly as she was messing around with Dave, until she found out he was married at which point she quit seeing him.

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You commend Penny's initiative, and I guess to a certain extent I do too. But.....Leonard WAS the victim in this case. I'm sorry, but no normal person can really believe that Vegas weddings are fake. There's stupid, and then there's STUPID. You literally have to be a moron. And I say this being a Lenny and actually liking Penny as a character, that's why it pisses me off when they write it as being so incredibly stupid.  And the bigger question is: even if she tought that the wedding was fake why would she, of all people, Penny the queen of commitment phobia, decide , to have fun , to have a fake wedding when she so fears the real thing?

I'm not certain Leonard was a victim in this case. Penny was actually the victim. Leonard had a girlfriend who did something stupid. @Molly had a post earlier in the thread of what stupid things people believe in. One of them was something like her mother believed her father about sausages growing in trees. My point is what's obvious to one person is not obvious to someone else. I live in the Chicago area and the quarterback for the Bears is Jay Cutler. My SO wouldn't know that and many here in Chicago wouldn't. Does that make them stupid? It's been mentioned before the combo of alcohol, Zack and just really thinking their fake did her in.If in her mind it was fake what was there to fear? I was reading their are fake wedding chapels in Vegas. I didn't know that.

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I want see this and how they get out of this going forward. I kinda think it's an inoculation against the fear of marriage. She was married and didn't know it. How painful can the real thing be? It's so ironic.

(Btw there is a quantum physicist at an Australian university (Andrea Morello, who recently got a big prize for work on quantum computing) who is married to a cabaret and burlesque artist. Almost the same as P/L. So art imitates life, again. :) )

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You clearly don't know what you're talking about, and dislike Leonard as a character. OK, we get it! You've made you're point, over and over and over and over! But..... when you say something you have to base it in reason and not fantasy. It's not that Leonard can't stand Sheldon. I could go on and on about why not, but let me refer you to the second episode this season where both Leonard and Sheldon admit how important their friendship is to each other. Also in last nights's episode Leonard explains to Profesor Proton why he lives with Sheldon, so ....you are wrong.

 

You commend Penny's initiative, and I guess to a certain extent I do too. But.....Leonard WAS the victim in this case. I'm sorry, but no normal person can really believe that Vegas weddings are fake. There's stupid, and then there's STUPID. You literally have to be a moron. And I say this being a Lenny and actually liking Penny as a character, that's why it pisses me off when they write it as being so incredibly stupid.  And the bigger question is: even if she tought that the wedding was fake why would she, of all people, Penny the queen of commitment phobia, decide , to have fun , to have a fake wedding when she so fears the real thing?

 

I have based my points on reason, backed up everything I said. You wanna talk reason? Because there's no reasonable rationale that Leonard is somehow a victim in this situation, no matter how much he asserts himself to be one. This was a mistake they found out was made four years ago while they were apart, if all goes according to plan it will literally be as if it never happened, yet he is still complaining and rubbing it in her face every step of the way while she is trying to actually resolve things. Sounds like your the one basing things in complete fantasy. As for him and Sheldon, though the show tries to give the audience moments every now and then to show that deep down they are friends, the other 99% of the time I just see a guy who continues to live in a situation where he's constantly claiming to be unhappy, and doing nothing about it. 7.02 ended with Leonard appeasing Sheldon (as all episodes regarding their relationship do), which is not the same as making up with a friend. I don't like seeing Leonard behave like a whiner, and I made that post to counteract the ideas that he is somehow saintly (as some posters were actually insisting) and long-suffering. My criticism of him is far fairer than your insistence that Penny is "stupider than stupid" (when there are plenty of fake chapels in Vegas BTW). Most agree that Leonard's frequent complaining is his most prominent flaw. The fact that he handles any type of adversity this poorly shows he's no more ready for marriage than Penny is, as much as he likes the idea.

 

I enjoy his character most of the time and L/P are one of my biggest draws to the show. 

Edited by DaisyJane

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Because Sheldon was dealing with a broken toy, not real life relationships.  He lied about the toy at first, but quickly confessed--for each lie.  His switching his broken toy for Leonard's was wrong, but it was a spur-of-the-moment decision, not something he plotted to do deliberately to deceive Leonard and Penny.

 

Leonard was dealing with people and their feelings, not a toy.  Leonard thought about his planned infidelity for at least a couple of days.  Maybe Alice kissed him first, but he didn't kick her out of his apartment that first time, and then he tried to get Penny to tell him it was okay for him to cheat on Priya and lie to Alice.  And for all his momentary dilemma, he set out for Alice's place fully intending to sleep with her.  He only got cold feet at the last minute, but he would have stayed and made out with her (without the sex) if she hadn't kicked him out.  And he was even angry with himself for confessing to her that he had a girlfriend.

 

That he was remorseful when he called Priya was fine, but he had fully intended to cheat on her in the first place.

 

Sheldon's lie about the broken toy isn't on the same level as Leonard's behavior.

 

I don't know that Penny should doubt Leonard's fidelity toward her, but I do think that the incident made it evident that Leonard wasn't as in love with Priya as he wanted to pretend he was.  Like Mrs. Cooper told him--"You have to decide whether your in a relationship or if you're just calling it that."  I think that Leonard wanted to hang on to his relationship with Priya, and probably Priya wanted to at first as well, but in the end it wasn't much of a relationship.

And I think the way the story is being told, no matter who Leonard might have been dating at any time, Penny was the one he was really in love with.

 

A lie is a lie no matter what... It was not a spur of the moment decision, in his dream the spock doll told him no to do it...but he still went and did it. He only came clean when Leonard and Penny were going to find out what actually happened....he had fully intended on cheating previously...

 

and as far dealing with feeling not toys ... remember what Sheldon did in the agreement episode so that he could pee and eat whenever and whatever he wants....

 

as far the scene where Leonard was angry with himself...it is equivalent to the scene where sheldon says he wanted Leonard's toy to break...so was everything a lie??

 

no it was because the writers wanted it to be funny...and as you keep insisting this is a COMEDY....not drama...

 

what happened in that episode had nothing to do with Leonard and Penny relationship....

 

One thing that has been very consistent about Penny is that since moving in with Kurt is that she has not cheated on someone or knowingly been with someone who was cheating. If Penny doubted Leonard, she wouldn't have gotten back together with him.

I qualified the timing to "moving in with Kurt" as she has admitted in various places and times that in high school in Nebraska, she pretty much didn't care if she cheated on or messed around with anybody who was cheating. I also put knowingly as she was messing around with Dave, until she found out he was married at which point she quit seeing him.

 

you're talking about sleeping with both brothers same time thing...??

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you're talking about sleeping with both brothers same time thing...??

That and dry humping her friend's boyfriend. I think there may be a few others, but I can remember them right now. But they were all from Nebraska.

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Did'nt Sheldon make himself the victim in 7.2 and whine about it the whole episode even though Leonard said sorry again and again....
 

when essentially Leonard did not do what he did to intentionally hurt Sheldon.... he just wanted to have fun with penny without anyone's interference for a couple of days.....

Edited by vasu
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Did'nt Sheldon make himself the victim in 7.2 and whine about it the whole episode even though Leonard said sorry again and again....

 

when essentially Leonard did not do what he did to intentionally hurt Sheldon.... he just wanted to have fun with penny without anyone's interference...

 

You forget Sheldon has the 'Sheldon is just being Sheldon Card' where as Leonard knows better as he is the most normal one of the guys (according to some) and he was being selfish and only thinking of himself by wanting to spend some time with Penny without poor widdle Sheldon interrupting them at every turn.

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And ironically in the next episode Sheldon's going to punish Leonard for a *mistake* which he did 7 years ago...

 

and what was the mistake...forgetting something.....for which Sheldon intentionally paid and never told leonard..so that he could get a chance to punish Leonard..cunningly clever.....now how many times have we seen Sheldon forgetting something....hmm keys for example......

 

 

oh and ... did'nt Penny pester Leonard about his mom's book even thought he asked her to stop and stop...

Edited by vasu
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That and dry humping her friend's boyfriend. I think there may be a few others, but I can remember them right now. But they were all from Nebraska.

 

This is probably the worst...

 

Amy: Hooky? I’ve never played hooky in my life. My mom said that’s how girls end up addicted to reefer and jazz music.

Penny: It’s more like how girls end up at a Best Western hotel with a 34-year-old guy named Luther.

Bernadette: Joke?

Penny: I can laugh about it now.

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What Penny did was not STUPID. She had a gap in her knowledge, which was aggravated by making plans with a real idiot and what was probably copious amounts of alcohol and she made a decision. If you know something Penny didn't and if you are completely sober of course you can see that it's a mistake, but Penny doesn't have that advantage.

 

Ignorance does not excuse a stupid action.  Whether she knew it was a real wedding and did it anyway, or didn't possess the requisite knowledge to understand she was actually getting married, the result is still a stupid action (being married to someone she didn't want to be married to).

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As for Alex, I don't think it's a good idea to break up Lenny again. Especially to throw Leonard and Alex together, because Leonard knows full well how jealous Penny was of Alex. Breaking up with Penny and dating Alex would seem almost deliberately hurtful, even if Penny was the one breaking up with Leonard. It would be....sort of a sign that Leonard was always aware of who was an option of the back burner, and if Penny wasn't going to keep him he'd default to his other option. Sort of saying, "See? You don't want me, here's someone who does who I knew was always waiting." It would just be cruel, I think. I really don't want to see Alex and Leonard ever really date. 

 

That said, I don't hold Alex's crush against her. What I do dislike about her is that she denied the truth to Sheldon, and then turned him over to the mercies of HR when she knew, she had to know, Sheldon had a point. She DID ask out Leonard, and then acted like she didn't. I feel that Alex probably should have known or been aware that Sheldon and Leonard are best friends and roommates, so maybe she really should have expected that Sheldon would have been very upset by her behavior, and that Sheldon would be protective of Leonard. If Alex knew them all well, she'd know that Sheldon would be protective of Leonard and Penny both, as well as their relationship. I feel that Alex was dishonest, and felt embarrassed by Sheldon coming down on her, and she retaliated in a way by turning him into HR. She caused a lot of issues for all of the boys that way, and it really wasn't cool.

 

Not that I hate her or anything, that just really wasn't cool.

 

I don't want another Leonard-Penny break up too..

 

but Alex did nothing wrong what so ever... she did not make a sexual advance on anybody..she just asked Leonard out on a date that's it that's all it...the reply for which was not quite clearly explained in the show......and anyone in her place with a proper mind would have complained about Sheldon after what he did..

 

alex was dishonest ... I'm not sure how....and anyway its not like Sheldon has never thought about Amy or talked about their relationship during work ... the reason why Sheldon gave Alex a talking for......and never in the episode it was hinted that Sheldon did this to protect Leonard and Penny's relationship...

Edited by vasu

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I don't want another Leonard-Penny break up too..

 

but Alex did nothing wrong what so ever... she did not make a sexual advance on anybody..she just asked Leonard out on a date that's it that's all it...the reply for which was not quite clearly explained in the show......and anyone in her place with a proper mind would have complained about Sheldon after what he did..

 

alex was dishonest ... I'm not sure how....and anyway its not like Sheldon has never thought about Amy or talked about their relationship during work ... the reason why Sheldon gave Alex a talking for......and never in the episode it was hinted that Sheldon did this to protect Leonard and Penny's relationship...

The only thing Alex did which more inappropriate than anything was to ask Leonard out on a date when she knew he had a girlfriend. The rest you said was true.

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This storyline from the report on episode 9 appears to be a bad idea on the part of the writers.  I do not think it will be a continuing thing.  As for this discussion about Alex, imo she was not that important of a character.  The character had a role but as I see it that role is over. As for a relationship with Leonard, she is not a good match for him and she really does not fit in with the group imo.

 

I wish we could just move on.

Edited by Oldnavy

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This storyline from the report on episode 9 appears to be a bad idea on the part of the writers.  I do not think it will be a continuing thing.  As for this discussion about Alex, imo she was not that important of a character.  The character had a role but as I see it that role is over. As for a relationship with Leonard, she is not a good match for him and she really does not fit in with the group imo.

 

I wish we could just move on.

 

Gosh, if they are actually going this far down the rabbit hole why not do another episode where Penny and Zack have to stand in front of a judge and explain what happened? Zack could repeat his question, "what about the children?". He apparently still does not know what is going on. Zack's mom could yell from the back of the court room "she is a gold digger". :icon_twisted:

 

Oh, and they would have to get Jay Leno to play the judge. :laugh:

Edited by djsurrey

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On this whole Penny-married-Zack-in-Vegas thing… can I quote Katy Perry?

 

Did we get hitched last night … that's what you get for waking up in Vegas.

 

It's not particularly unpopular culture or unheard of for any kind of marriage happening in Vegas. With Penny being part of the 'younger' generation, perhaps it's just a matter of being accustomed to Vegas weddings being somewhat of a meaningless joke… like in The Hangover. 

 

Wow this would have been a great topic for my critical essay like four years ago. Wonder if I accidentally got married back then too… I do have a habit of losing rings when I go out. 

 

Random S7 thing: It's so cute how much time Leonard & Penny spend together just doing… normal things like drinking tea and watching movies, as opposed to visits with a 'purpose'. It's cute :) 

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On this whole Penny-married-Zack-in-Vegas thing… can I quote Katy Perry?

Did we get hitched last night … that's what you get for waking up in Vegas.

It's not particularly unpopular culture or unheard of for any kind of marriage happening in Vegas. With Penny being part of the 'younger' generation, perhaps it's just a matter of being accustomed to Vegas weddings being somewhat of a meaningless joke… like in The Hangover.

Wow this would have been a great topic for my critical essay like four years ago. Wonder if I accidentally got married back then too… I do have a habit of losing rings when I go out.

Random S7 thing: It's so cute how much time Leonard & Penny spend together just doing… normal things like drinking tea and watching movies, as opposed to visits with a 'purpose'. It's cute :)

What irks me about this, and I'll preface this by saying it will be funny when they run it it, is that Leonard is kind of running out of milestones. He may be the first she truly loved, and I don't care about the sex that preceded their monogamous relationship, but the list of things he is coming second, third or twenty fifth at is getting longer. I joked about the kid in middle school and that's extreme but he's not getting a lot of firsts. I get that it's an odd coupling and they are making a comedy, but when they get married, she will be getting married AGAIN. Sort of disintegrates the specialness for them/me. I'm wondering if she will look anguished or blasé about this. I'm hoping she is horrified, because that imply she knows what it means. She did rush to fix it at all costs, so I think she does know.

I know Hollywood people get married a lot, and Liz Taylor did eight weddings, so maybe that is the underlying joke here. And yes, they are adorable together. That said, I feel she needs to do more than just show him her box of mementos to amp up the display of the depth of feeling she has for him. Which is where she has gone before.

Here's hoping.

Eta to clarify

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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He's the first person she truly loves and trusts and has let her walls down to, and he's the first person she wants a future with and is willing to face her fears for. He's the first guy who has accepted her for more than her looks and been there for her whenever she's hit a bump or done something stupid or been hurt. And he's the first person who stayed even when he could have given her a reason to leave. And he's the first person who she didn't try to get over with a fling but just ended up facing and acknowledging the pain. 

 

I think that's all pretty damn special, especially for a gal like Penny! :) 

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What irks me about this, and I'll preface this by saying it will be funny when they run it it, is that Leonard is kind of running out of milestones. He may be the first she truly loved, and I don't care about the sex that preceded their monogamous relationship, but the list of things he is coming second, third or twenty fifth at is getting longer. I joked about the kid in middle school and that's extreme but he's not getting a lot of firsts. I get that it's an odd coupling and they are making a comedy, but when they get married, she will be getting married AGAIN. Sort of disintegrates the specialness for them/me. I'm wondering if she will look anguished or blasé about this. I'm hoping she is horrified, because that imply she knows what it means. She did rush to fix it at all costs, so I think she does know.

I know Hollywood people get married a lot, and Liz Taylor did eight weddings, so maybe that is the underlying joke here. And yes, they are adorable together. That said, I feel she needs to do more than just show him her box to amp up the display of the depth of feeling she has for him. Which is where she has gone before.

Here's hoping.

I'm still not sure this "wedding" ever really occurred. I'm convinced it happened but it wasn't real.

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He's the first person she truly loves and trusts and has let her walls down to, and he's the first person she wants a future with and is willing to face her fears for. He's the first guy who has accepted her for more than her looks and been there for her whenever she's hit a bump or done something stupid or been hurt. And he's the first person who stayed even when he could have given her a reason to leave. And he's the first person who she didn't try to get over with a fling but just ended up facing and acknowledging the pain.

I think that's all pretty damn special, especially for a gal like Penny! :)

I agree with all this. These are maybe things Leonard has done or won. I'm thinking about what he has been given :).

All along he has had to work hard. It's evened up now because she is learning. He hasn't been in the habit of walking away from her, she has often closed the door on him. Only lately has she reached a point where the fights are resolved with him on the right side of the door. This is terrific, because without the conversation how do you get understanding. Look, I know this becoming Mrs Johnson was no betrayal, she was just confused/drunk/incompetent and she knew it and she fixed as soon as she could. I just don't see the giving. It would be terrific to see that explicitly played out. She is trying, but she cocked up the recent gift because she didn't notice that he bought the thing for himself. That was sad to me. It had half registered with her, but she didn't get the whole thing. She has to get the whole thing. At least occasionally.

I would just like to see her do something awesome for him, big or small, unconditionally and with no agenda other than his happiness. Is all. Like she tried with the birthday party. Sort of when she let him go to Bakersfield. And like when he asked about going to the North Sea. And when she read the label and put the flavour packet in. So more of that. But without him asking. Just a gift.

(Or maybe I've got my blinkers on and it happens a lot. LOL eta in Tenure she gave him her support - so more of that) :)

I'll assume Australia doesn't have that particular idiom in its vocabulary.

we had a tv drama in prime time called "The Box" . We also had a drama in prime time called "No 96". We are a nation of sophisticates. :) Edited by Nogravitasatall

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He's the first person she truly loves and trusts and has let her walls down to, and he's the first person she wants a future with and is willing to face her fears for. He's the first guy who has accepted her for more than her looks and been there for her whenever she's hit a bump or done something stupid or been hurt. And he's the first person who stayed even when he could have given her a reason to leave. And he's the first person who she didn't try to get over with a fling but just ended up facing and acknowledging the pain. 

 

 

I don't think the fling thing is necessarily true if you consider Zack must of happen after they broke up.

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I am not sure that the Wedding was the main issue but was the catalyst to explore the Lenny relationship and Leonard and Penny’s reactions.  Sheldon put it very bluntly and compared Penny’s implied feelings to Zach and Leonard as to matrimony.  Then to mention the certainty of the fake marriage being consummated, had to hurt both Leonard and Penny.  The fact that they continued to work it thru, no matter how inappropriately, shows signs of growth.  Ie, Leonard did not give up or offer to do anything to settle and Penny did not run or slam the door in Leonard’s face.

 

PENNY- (to Leonard) Why are you making such a big deal about this anyway.
SHELDON- Perhaps it’s because every time Leonard’s asked you to marry him you crush him like an insignificant insect yet you run off to Vegas and marry a moron like Zack Johnson on a whim. Just a thought.
LEONARD- You are taking care of this.
PENNY- Of course I will. Now can you let it go so we can just enjoy the holiday?

 

AMY- OK. I’ve looked up grounds for annulment. One: The marriage was not consummated.
Sheldon cracks up laughing.
SHELDON- Oh, please! This is Penny we’re talking about. This thing was consummated.
Leonard looks over at Penny. She looks away and out her window.

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