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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


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I don't understand all this anger about Penny. She was always the "dumb" blonde from across the hall who never cared about romantic things, cooking or something else.

Raj: "Well, you've probably never had to do this stuff, because you're young and beautiful and men have always thrown themselves at you."

 

Penny is STILL inexperienced! But at least she TRIES! You guys are focusing too much on Penny. Look at all the mistakes Sheldon did! And he's super-smart... so let's give her a break ;)

My crankiness was over the fact that she married without realising it, meaning Leonard, who is always getting it in the neck, won't be her first ever husband. I didn't care about "the try before you buy" deal she had going with other relationships but they would have had that as unique. They are still 'unique' because technically it's annulled, but viscerally, to me, personally, in my head, and not on behalf of anyone else, I'm disappointed that that 'space' is not reserved. I think she is too as she looked pretty serious in the promo shots, so I'll get over it.

On the other hand they are showing she has toddler troubles with glue. Which is ludicrous and not the girl who can off anyone at halo, paint ball, WOW, chess or any other game. She is being disrespected and that's making me cranky too. So not anger, more disappointment with events and direction and how they make her look. :)

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So true Tensor.   The most consistent motif the writers have used with Penny is her insecurity about her intelligence and judgement. It pops up constantly in several episodes a season, starting with

Bullshit. My wife and I have OUR money. If money is budgeted for her to get clothes or for me to get clothes, neither one of us is giving the other money for clothes, we are using OUR money to get clo

OK, I went and re-watched the show tonight. I was looking at how Leonard and Penny reacted and it became obvious it was a no-win for Leonard. He was obviously sticking his foot in his mouth while tryi

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My crankiness was over the fact that she married without realising it, meaning Leonard, who is always getting it in the neck, won't be her first ever husband. I didn't care about "the try before you buy" deal she had going with other relationships but they would have had that as unique. They are still 'unique' because technically it's annulled, but viscerally, to me, personally, in my head, and not on behalf of anyone else, I'm disappointed that that 'space' is not reserved. I think she is too as she looked pretty serious in the promo shots, so I'll get over it.

On the other hand they are showing she has toddler troubles with glue. Which is ludicrous and not the girl who can off anyone at halo, paint ball, WOW, chess or any other game. She is being disrespected and that's making me cranky too. So not anger, more disappointment with events and direction and how they make her look. :)

 

I understand that you are upset about the "first ever husband" thing... BUT, in my opinion, a marriage on paper doesn't count. There were no feelings involved. Also, they both thought it was a fake wedding... Just think positive: That gives Penny a chance to make her next marriage even BETTER. :)

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:) if you are telling me to calm down then thanks, but Leonard and Penny getting involved has been an interest for 7 years. I also see their endeavours like a climb up a mountain, together. Lets say its the Eiger. They were going well, but at some point, Penny caught the train up then came back down. Leonard however, was for a time stuck out in the cold. Now, when they summit together its not quite the same. Its an interesting scenario, because as you say, nothing happened. But remember what a Rafiki (?) said in the Lion King. Even if its in the past it still hurts. The consolation could be that soooo much time will pass before she gets over her constructed objections to going all out for him that i will have early onset dementia and will have forgot this episode. :)
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I understand that you are upset about the "first ever husband" thing... BUT, in my opinion, a marriage on paper doesn't count. There were no feelings involved. Also, they both thought it was a fake wedding... Just think positive: That gives Penny a chance to make her next marriage even BETTER. :)

A marriage is a marriage, on paper or not. It just is no longer the same. IMHO they should never have gone down this road! For the masses it probably won't matter much, however, for the Lenny fans from season 1 it's a very big deal! :(

Edited by SodidIwin?
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I would bet that if Leonard had married Priya (or some other woman) in the same manner some wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it and would be screaming for Penny to think twice about staying with Leonard let along thinking about marrying him at some point in time. 

 

And I don't think we would get the 'marriage didn't count' due to ________ , and or the 'marriage is only a piece of paper'.  I just don't think Leonard would get the same benefit of the doubt.

 

As a Lenny fans I feel we have been cheated and as a Leonard fan he has been cheated.  Leonard rarely gets anything first where his and Penny relationship goes and I was hoping that marriage and the 'smart and beautiful babies' would belong to the two of them.

 

Now with all this said, we as Lenny Fans will have to suck it up as with the Penny/Raj crap and few other things that have been thrown at our OTP couple and hunker down for the next blow to come.

Edited by ArmyGirl
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:) if you are telling me to calm down then thanks, but Leonard and Penny getting involved has been an interest for 7 years. I also see their endeavours like a climb up a mountain, together. Lets say its the Eiger. They were going well, but at some point, Penny caught the train up then came back down. Leonard however, was for a time stuck out in the cold. Now, when they summit together its not quite the same. Its an interesting scenario, because as you say, nothing happened. But remember what a Rafiki (?) said in the Lion King. Even if its in the past it still hurts. The consolation could be that soooo much time will pass before she gets over her constructed objections to going all out for him that i will have early onset dementia and will have forgot this episode. :)

 

Okay, I really don't know if I get this right...

 

But interesting, how an Australian knows the Eiger. I went there last winter hehe.

 

A marriage is a marriage, on paper or not. It just is no longer the same. IMHO they should never have gone down this road! For the masses it probably won't matter much, however, for the Lenny fans from season 1 it's a very big deal! :(

 

However, that's just your opinion. I'm L/P fan from the beginning too, but I don't let this little mistake change my mind about them. I also don't like how most of the people just see the negative sides of L/P EVERY time.

Please don't take offense to this! Everyone should feel free to share their opinion. Well, THAT is just mine.

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I don't subscribe to the idea that marriage is just a piece of paper, never will, but I will remind you that the law will consider them as never being married since it was not valid in the first place. That's why there are such specific guidelines that qualify for a couple to get an annulment, which Penny and Zach meet. So Leonard will be Penny's first husband, in the eyes of the law and everybody else. 

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Except there will be indelibly her first annulled marriage, unless you have MIB memory erasing tools. Annulment is a device, probably to protect property and capital from youthful enthusiasms. Ill try to stay quiet on this now. :)

except to say its brinksmanship, and TPTB take liberties all the time. They fight then have sex. Leonard knows this and daydreamed about their predicament

eta 2 . Australians travel,did better through the GFC than most nations and can read books. Who hasn't heard about the Eiger? Lol.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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I don't subscribe to the idea that marriage is just a piece of paper, never will, but I will remind you that the law will consider them as never being married since it was not valid in the first place. That's why there are such specific guidelines that qualify for a couple to get an annulment, which Penny and Zach meet. So Leonard will be Penny's first husband, in the eyes of the law and everybody else. 

 

Daisy, I agree with you, up until your last sentence.   In the eyes of the law, yes.  In the eyes of Leonard, he will never be her first husband.  That is just something that you can't un-remember.  He can say he forgives her, that he understands the circumstances and accepts that it was annulled, but it would be in his memory.  Every Thanksgiving, he will remember that was when the annulment of  Penny's previous marriage was started.  Now, knowing this is a sitcom, they may never mention it again, or if they do, it will be in a joking manner, like Raj has brought up his and Penny's night.    

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That's how I figure it will be brought up, especially since it was resolved so quickly. Penny never considered herself married to Zach, the law won't consider them as ever being married, so he shouldn't either. The marriage was never valid.

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That's how I figure it will be brought up, especially since it was resolved so quickly. Penny never considered herself married to Zach, the law won't consider them as ever being married, so he shouldn't either. The marriage was never valid.

Unless the court doesn't agree it meets their threshold for annulment. Then what? We have no idea what these writers are going for. Are they just bidding time because the show will go a few years longer and Sheldon is still in the adolescent stage or it ends at Thanksgiving? I'm hoping it was just a filler episode that gravitated to sweep material but we won't know until latter. In any event just like Raj & Penny this should never of happened! IMO! They never mess with Shamy like they do with us and I'm beginning to get pissed off! :(

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It really is hard to get a sense of where they are going. As far as Penny is concerned, it is as if they are testing Leonard. Basically, is he really sure he wants to marry a girl that appears to be that dumb? If the writers are worried about breaking the premise of the show, they are. Penny was supposed to be sweet and clever. The sweetness is still there, but the cleverness is getting turned on and off.

 

I also wonder exactly how one can really defend Sheldon plotting to get revenge on Leonard for seven years for something as trivial as a DVD rental. Sheldon is supposed to be his friend, but clearly from this episode and "The Deception Verification" it seems clear that the relationship is largely Leonard taking care of Sheldon, and Sheldon treating him like a servant or emotional punching bag. The case for Sheldon being Sheldon has been broken as well. I actually found the most recent episode painful to watch, except for the very true statement by Penny that Sheldon "wins when Leonard doesn't kill him in his sleep". If Penny truly loves him, she should let him move in asap, to get away from someone that would do what he did in this episode.

 

Leonard is also being stupid too, as he would rather have his skin rash up than break a dishonest agreement with Sheldon. Sheldon invalidated the agreement as soon as he said the store had closed. Stores going out of business write off lost DVD's, as I know from all the DVD stores folding around here. There was no one to pay back, and it actually would have messed up the books of the former owners to have the DVD come back with late payments. It would have cost them more to settle the debt, than it was worth. Sheldon is no longer Leonard's friend, IMO, and I think Amy is really starting to have doubts too. To be in a relationship with someone that would be that into revenge for a perceived slight is not a great idea.

 

I think Penny and Leonard will figure this out, but I am very unhappy with this last episode. It wasn't just boring, it made Raj, Sheldon and Leonard look bad.

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@Hamerman, my hope is this is rock bottom for the season and they make everyone look better for the coming new year. Other than infidelity, what greater depth could they plumb. Seriously. Tell me. I need to brace and assume the crash position. All that's left is for Leonard to dump Penny OR Priya to come back with Leonard's lovechild. What could they do that is worse now and still call it comedy?

I so want to believe. LOL.

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I really don't have a problem with the marriage as such. I believe that Penny was really drunk, and forgot about it for a while, and when she remembered it, she just figured it was fake. Zac hadn't brought it up in the last three years and he was there. Hell, they went out for new years, and he didn't mention it. So the marriage probably just got moved to the back of her mind, until now. My big problem is the way they seem to be dumbing Penny down.

Edited by eirwinrommel
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I am not a Lenny shipper at all, and therefor don't really care what happens (unless it will affect Sheldon and/or Amy in any case), but I think this entire marriage thing is just a setup for something later on during this season (or maybe next one).

 

So it might not be brought up again for a while, but I think it will surface again someday.

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I am not a Lenny shipper at all, and therefor don't really care what happens (unless it will affect Sheldon and/or Amy in any case), but I think this entire marriage thing is just a setup for something later on during this season (or maybe next one).

 

So it might not be brought up again for a while, but I think it will surface again someday.

One can hope that it makes a positive contribution to the characters development and provides fuel for the story further down the road. Otherwise it's a casual meanness, not unlike saving up other inconsequential things with no basis in truth from the far past to create teachable moments :), but that's a different episode. Hehehehe. :) Let Amy have Sheldon, I say. It would literally save Leonard's hide.

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 I think this entire marriage thing is just a setup for something later on during this season (or maybe next one).

 

A setup for what? They signed the annulment, this marriage thing is DONE. I really don't see a reason why they should bring it up again, since Leonard and Penny had their happy end and apologized.

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A setup for what? They signed the annulment, this marriage thing is DONE. I really don't see a reason why they should bring it up again, since Leonard and Penny had their happy end and apologized.

 

The fact that the marriage is done, does not mean it will not be brought up again, somehow.

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The tweepadock in the room really is the question from Leonard that needs to be asked. Why would she fake marry Zack, with whom she had very little interest in, while the idea of marrying Leomard for real, whom she desperately loves, scare her silly? Leonard's proposal while in the midst of ridiculously deferred sex was almost a deal breaker, yet Zack suggests that they play act a wedding, and she thinks it would be a hoot. Think about the scene taking place off-camera. Leonard is finally having sex with Penny, who is supposed to be fantastic in bed, after having waited patiently for three months with a girl known to love sex. By all accounts, Penny should be pretty glad to finally be having sex at all, and particularly so with her love. In the middle of this, Leonard basically says that he would like to be able to do this forever, and Penny stops in the middle of it and freaks out. That implies a very serious berserk button, yet we find dumb, sweet Zack pushed and got sex and a fake wedding out of it. Hell, Penny almost dumped Leonard because he asked her to marry him. The marriage thing needs explanation. I also don't buy Leonard's explanation to Professor Proton about why he stays with Sheldon. After this last incident, he not only should move out, he needs to. Penny hit the nail on the head. At some point, Leonard is going to crack and kill Sheldon in his sleep, and even Amy would testify that it was self-defense.

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The tweepadock in the room really is the question from Leonard that needs to be asked. Why would she fake marry Zack, with whom she had very little interest in, while the idea of marrying Leomard for real, whom she desperately loves, scare her silly? Leonard's proposal while in the midst of ridiculously deferred sex was almost a deal breaker, yet Zack suggests that they play act a wedding, and she thinks it would be a hoot. Think about the scene taking place off-camera. Leonard is finally having sex with Penny, who is supposed to be fantastic in bed, after having waited patiently for three months with a girl known to love sex. By all accounts, Penny should be pretty glad to finally be having sex at all, and particularly so with her love. In the middle of this, Leonard basically says that he would like to be able to do this forever, and Penny stops in the middle of it and freaks out. That implies a very serious berserk button, yet we find dumb, sweet Zack pushed and got sex and a fake wedding out of it. Hell, Penny almost dumped Leonard because he asked her to marry him. The marriage thing needs explanation. I also don't buy Leonard's explanation to Professor Proton about why he stays with Sheldon. After this last incident, he not only should move out, he needs to. Penny hit the nail on the head. At some point, Leonard is going to crack and kill Sheldon in his sleep, and even Amy would testify that it was self-defense.

 

Okay, sometimes I feel that I'm watching a different series.

 

First of all: Why would Penny be scared to do (in her mind) a FAKE wedding? They did it for fun. I bet if she knew it was real, she would have never married him. You can clearly read in the taping report, that she is very upset about that marriage thing, when she figured out it's real.

In episode 6.16, she CLEARLY said, that she has commitment issues. It's quite the same thing with Leonard's first "I love you" in S3. She freaks out, because everytime she said "ILY" in earlier relationships, it ended pretty bad.

Penny: "As long as things keep going great between us, you’ll keep asking me to marry you, and eventually I’m gonna end up saying yes, and then we’re gonna be married forever, and the whole thing just freaks me out."

To say it short: She is just not ready to get married. But I still see the marriage thing positive. Maybe she finds out, that a marriage isn't SO bad, how she expected.

 

I agree with the Leonard/Sheldon thing. It feels like that Leonard is Sheldon's servant. Leonard sees some real friend in him, but on the other side, Sheldon is just using him most of the time. It's very confusing. In the first episode of S7, Sheldon missed him SO MUCH, but is feared to share his feelings with other people. And now the thing in episode 7.08, where he just humiliates him.

The only good thing Sheldon did for Leonard, was trying to prevent an L/P breakup.

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To me , in this last episode they destroyed the Sheldon character. He has always had his quirks, and his way of being, and feeling superior to everybody, and jealous when things go well for somebody else (Leonard's trip), but he never was this vengeful, petty, mean, cruel, and . to use Amy's words, diabolical. A pathetic attempt at humor, in this last episode, and a failed one at that. 

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I don't like that it happened either and would rather it didn't have... but it was Annuled and therefore doesn't count.

Yeah it does count. If you ever have to get a background investigation, you will see it really does count and if the background investigation is for a security clearance, it counts a lot. So if Penny marries Leonard, he will truly be her second husband. I hope we don't find out later that she had an abortion, too, I really hope the writers won't go there.

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What proof do they have that they were actually married? Penny saying so and Zack agreeing. Just because they filled out a downloaded annulment papers there seems to me there is no real proof.

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Yeah it does count. If you ever have to get a background investigation, you will see it really does count and if the background investigation is for a security clearance, it counts a lot. So if Penny marries Leonard, he will truly be her second husband. I hope we don't find out later that she had an abortion, too, I really hope the writers won't go there.

 

I'm always amused how far to the extreme you go when there is a bump in the road.  It is a comedy show... they are not going to have an episode about an abortion.  It would air right after the episode where we find out Howard is beating Bernie at home and she files a restraining order against him.

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