Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[ArmyGirl]

S06E03 The Higgs Boson Observation -----

Edited August 25, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Nogravitasatall]

I think they unnaturally stretched it out. Its "just" plausible to me. King of foreplay is ironic. Almost 6 years? Almost magical thinking, to expect it to work, now, if it didn't work then. But I have drunk the Kool-Aid, so I'm good.

But if they seriously f*** with them again, they will have burst my bubble. Seriously for me means they genuine relationship problems that would break a real relationship, none of this farcical miscommunication crap. They HAVE to be past that.

(and Tensor and 3kull have best avatars - or the bravest... lol)

[BangerMain]

I really don't think the writers are being lazy or sloppy at all here. It's not very nice to accuse them of that, you can tell from interviews how much they care about the characters they have created and write. 

 

Let me clarify the context I used to make the "sloppy writing" crack. I think season 6 of TBBT was the best written of the show, especially the care they took to bring about a loving, domestic relationship for L/P. What I was talking about was one portion of the season 7 premiere reveled in the taping report, Leonard's viewing of Penny's topless internet video with his shipmates.

 

Let's forget about whether this is OOC for Leonard. What had me shaking my head is how the writers are going to explain why he thought showing this video was the only way to show off the woman he loves. First, showing some video off the internet of some topless young woman does not proves she is your girlfriend. Having pictures of her on your smartphone, tablet, laptop, wallet or Facebook pages, preferably with you in the picture with her, does that. We have to believe that Leonard does not have access to any normal photos or video on his social media sites or digital devices. We have seen this man take pictures of her and himself when he was going off for a weekend at Bakerfield's Comic Con. For a four month trip, he would bring along Gigabytes of material, some of it for bragging purposes and other for his "personal" use.

 

Then, Leonard would have to be stupid beyond belief to think that even if they believed the woman in the video was his future wife, that they would think she is any prize for a distinguished scientist or that he is not some sleaze ball for showing the video in the first place.

 

The tradition on TBBT is that they throw in challenges for the gang at the start of the season. That's fine to bring a little tension to the show. But the L/P obstacle is just stupid, no matter how they end up resolving it.

Edited August 26, 2013 by BangerMain

[Nogravitasatall]

@bangermain. ⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆ I think I agree with you. If this became a deal breaker it would be so stupid. Its just got to be a cheap shot and a non-issue.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[bamf25]

When Penny first me Leonard did she have any real obligation to date him straight away or declare her love for him? No I think it is more realistic for it to take Penny 6 seasons to declare her love for Leonard, why would she straight away, Lenny created depth and history over time that led to Penny telling Leonard she loves him. Penny has always been a work in progress, she has always had struggles with conveying how she feels, she has always struggled to find the right depth to actualize those emotions, hence why it came out without even realizing she was saying them. I think the writers have done a great job with the relationship with Lenny. Their have been great moments between Leonard and Penny from the Pilot when they weren't dating JMO.

Connected with this, and the new relationship pot holes that the writers seem to be going for this coming season.  The dynamic has always been Leonard will never leave Penny on his own accord.  He fears in his heart that she is too "good" for him and therefor will do anything to keep her.  He has been in a constant state of trying to please her. As Penny has said, Leonard would never leave her.  This has been supported by multiple plots where she either leaves him, or is considering leaving him.  Penny is currently still with Leonard because this is the first guy she has honestly loved, not lusted for, and it took her a long time to get there.  

 

This leaves the writers with one obvious place to take the relationship, basically having the characters switch roles.  It seems they may be exploring this idea in season 7.  Penny can now be the one that will do anything to keep Leonard, where Leonard now has more confidence.  He got the hot girl, and would have no problems keeping her.  Now he may start thinking he can do better.  Not only can he get the hot girl, but even get the hot nerd.  Take everything from a physical standpoint he wanted and found in Penny and combine that with the intelligence and common interests that he shares with his general social circle.  Now I do not know if this means Alex comes back into the picture, but for a secondary character they spent a lot of time on her.  Or maybe a girl like Alice from season 5, both of whom fit easily into the hot nerd category.  No idea if this is where things are going, but the groundwork has been laid for all of this the past two seasons.  Penny will now have to fight to keep him.  This also would dovetail nicely with the very close relationship she is developing with Sheldon.  Take his very heartfelt scene from season 6 where Sheldon askes Penny not to hurt his best friend, and mirror that this season with Sheldon asking Leonard the same thing in relation to Penny.

[Moonbase]

When Penny first me Leonard did she have any real obligation to date him straight away or declare her love for him? No I think it is more realistic for it to take Penny 6 seasons to declare her love for Leonard, why would she straight away, Lenny created depth and history over time that led to Penny telling Leonard she loves him. Penny has always been a work in progress, she has always had struggles with conveying how she feels, she has always struggled to find the right depth to actualize those emotions, hence why it came out without even realizing she was saying them. I think the writers have done a great job with the relationship with Lenny. Their have been great moments between Leonard and Penny from the Pilot when they weren't dating JMO.

 

How exactly?

Penny was a much nicer person in the first couple of seasons, then she is now. This idea that she has become more mature, is an total illusion. Penny has become an alcoholic, who used to be a bully and has no passion for anything in life but having a boyfriend. This is not the Penny I tuned in for.

[Nogravitasatall]

⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆ Hi Moonbase. I'd say binge drinker, not alcoholic. Not that I've studied this...(hmmm ), just thought about it. If she can go without a drink, as she has demonstrated, then binging. Also no drinking at work, or for breakfast, except that once we know of, before the comic book visit and the hookup with Thor. No blackouts either.

Could be borderline, but if its not interfering with her life and she is able to stop then maybe not. She pulled back a lot since 2.0. But there is no safe level of drinking.

Sorry for the PSA, it was really tangential to your point. The bully part was ugly. I was sorry to see that. She is more complex now, true. And approaching 30 and not the ingénue. Getting interesting really, for me. Certainly changed.

I once thought that they won't be making a show about middle aged scientists and their partners. I think maybe I was wrong.

(and I discovered some new keys

Edited August 26, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[3ku11]

How exactly?

Penny was a much nicer person in the first couple of seasons, then she is now. This idea that she has become more mature, is an total illusion. Penny has become an alcoholic, who used to be a bully and has no passion for anything in life but having a boyfriend. This is not the Penny I tuned in for.

An Illusion? Ask the writers, ask the cast any fan of the show well say the same thing Penny is a much nicer person and alot more mature then she was. So I'm assuming you think Penny dating alot of casual guys who work at the gym, and never having any real emotional connection with any guy was sustainble over the next lot of seasons? An alcoholic? Where did that come from the only time I have seen Penny drink is when she is hanging out with the girls or goes out, in S6 she has become alot more domesticated and assured in her relationship with Leonard. You may see her maturity as an illusion but I see it as growth and self actulization, as she may not have success in other areas of her life, but she is begginning to become less shallow and superficial then she was in the first two seasons. You say she was nice in the first two seasons far as I am concerned she is a much nicer person now then she was, her taste in guys was shallow, Leonard was really the only relationship that had any emotional deph to it at all. And it is not fair to say she has no passion in life other then having a BF,  she is not a Phyiscist her job does not pay constantly, she is working as an waitress as a struggling actress, what are you expecting? So while I can't say for sure what type of person in Penny you tune in for, but from my vantage point her maturity is clear to anyone who has watched from the begginning. Moments like Leonard wanting to move in, do you seriousley think S1 or S2 Penny would be keen for that? She was willing to compromise her intimacy issues and insecurities to make Leonard happy, Valentines Day EP finnally Leonard and Penny are starting to trust each other and be honest with each other. I am just listing examples of how much Penny has matured in her growth as a person and in her relationships espeically with Leonard. 

[I.Am.Molly]

An Illusion? Ask the writers, ask the cast any fan of the show well say the same thing Penny is a much nicer person and alot more mature then she was. So I'm assuming you think Penny dating alot of casual guys who work at the gym, and never having any real emotional connection with any guy was sustainble over the next lot of seasons? An alcoholic? Where did that come from the only time I have seen Penny drink is when she is hanging out with the girls or goes out, in S6 she has become alot more domesticated and assured in her relationship with Leonard. You may see her maturity as an illusion but I see it as growth and self actulization, as she may not have success in other areas of her life, but she is begginning to become less shallow and superficial then she was in the first two seasons. You say she was nice in the first two seasons far as I am concerned she is a much nicer person now then she was, her taste in guys was shallow, Leonard was really the only relationship that had any emotional deph to it at all. And it is not fair to say she has no passion in life other then having a BF, she is not a Phyiscist her job does not pay constantly, she is working as an waitress as a struggling actress, what are you expecting? So while I can't say for sure what type of person in Penny you tune in for, but from my vantage point her maturity is clear to anyone who has watched from the begginning. Moments like Leonard wanting to move in, do you seriousley think S1 or S2 Penny would be keen for that? She was willing to compromise her intimacy issues and insecurities to make Leonard happy, Valentines Day EP finnally Leonard and Penny are starting to trust each other and be honest with each other. I am just listing examples of how much Penny has matured in her growth as a person and in her relationships espeically with Leonard.

Can I get a hallelujah and an Amen please! I agree 100% (

Edited August 26, 2013 by I.Am.Molly

[terriblewaitress]

Let me clarify the context I used to make the "sloppy writing" crack. 

 

, some of it for bragging purposes and other for his "personal" use.

 

 

I wasn't aiming that at anybody it just seemed a good general word to use for what a lot of people were saying, it's cool! 

I just liked the face after that hahahaha so I thought I'd keep it there 

 

How exactly?

Penny was a much nicer person in the first couple of seasons, then she is now. This idea that she has become more mature, is an total illusion. Penny has become an alcoholic, who used to be a bully and has no passion for anything in life but having a boyfriend. This is not the Penny I tuned in for.

 

Become an alcoholic? Quite the opposite, I would have thought. Yes, she was a bully, and that's not nice, but she doesn't do any of that anymore. Yeah she got the girls to help with her paper and they compared it to school but to me that was more out of really not wanting to get a bad grade after making such a deal out of it to Leonard. And being passionate about a person? That's amazing. She struggled so much to find something and to get somewhere in life, finding a person she can dedicate that passion to, that's wonderful. 

 

We all gotta chillax about this topless thing. It's boobs, big woop, we don't even know if he showed them that part. We can decide what we really think when we've seen it and how it plays out in relation to the episode. He's away, he's drinking, he's having an awesome time doing the stuff he never got to do when he was younger, Leonard's allowed to be a bit of a lad! If it comes out bad on the show, then ok, but for now I'm staying positive about this  

[BangerMain]

I wasn't aiming that at anybody it just seemed a good general word to use for what a lot of people were saying, it's cool! 

I just liked the face after that hahahaha so I thought I'd keep it there 

We all gotta chillax about this topless thing. It's boobs, big woop, we don't even know if he showed them that part. We can decide what we really think when we've seen it and how it plays out in relation to the episode. He's away, he's drinking, he's having an awesome time doing the stuff he never got to do when he was younger, Leonard's allowed to be a bit of a lad! If it comes out bad on the show, then ok, but for now I'm staying positive about this

 

We are in complete agreement as I have posted twice before. No need to get too excited about the topless video until we see how this plays out. My gripe about it is purely technical. It is a very poorly thought out idea no matter how it will be resolved. It is so illogical, its insertion by the writers is too obviously for forced conflict to disrupt L/P's sixth season happiness vibe. That's fine but they could have come up with something that made more sense then that.

Edited August 26, 2013 by BangerMain

[I.Am.Molly]

Penny has become an alcoholic, .

I can't believe that you and some others can really define Penny as an alcoholic. I wouldn't even put her down as a binge drinker. The girl have gotten drunk in a handful of episodes, all of which included the two other girls too. Are they also alcoholics or is this saved just for Penny? In the Valentines day episode, Bernadette told Leonard to 'keep on going' when he was filling up her wine. Maybe her relationship with Howard is turning her into an alcoholic too. Or maybe that's just Penny's bad influence... Edited August 26, 2013 by I.Am.Molly

[rickfromillinois]

I can't believe that you and some others can really define Penny as an alcoholic. I wouldn't even put her down as a binge drinker. The girl have gotten drunk in a handful of episodes, all of which included the two other girls too. Are they also alcoholics or is this saved just for Penny? In the Valentines day episode, Bernadette told Leonard to 'keep on going' when he was filling up her wine. Maybe her relationship with Howard is turning her into an alcoholic too. Or maybe that's just Penny's bad influence... Smh.

Like I said, there have been only a select amount of episodes throughout the whole six seasons, where Penny has gotten drunk, most of which were during a time when she was going through a hard time, so I just can't understand how this would make her some sort of alcoholic. This month, I've gotten drunk three times and had the occasional drink during the week; more than what Penny has been shown to drink so by your standards I would be an alcoholic too. Better get myself down to AA.

I would have to disagree.  There have been plenty of instances and references to Penny over drinking without the other girls being present, including the one where Penny got drunk right after breaking up with Leonard and showing up at his apartment complaining to him about how he ruined her because it was his fault that she realized how stupid her date was.  She mentioned that they would have to go a long ways to find a bar where no one had ever seen her naked, etc.   Even getting drunk with the other girls being present doesn't mean she is not a binge drinker.  

[Nogravitasatall]

I can't believe that you and some others can really define Penny as an alcoholic.

s4 was when she was beyond social. And she was miserable. She looked to be drinking to cope. Not anymore. That's the only time you could level the charge and that's the time period that was in my head. From s5, social only if at all. Coffee was being drunk, when Amy clocked her with the purse. Luckily I don't have to be right, but I'd say bingey, at that s4 time. But not alcoholic. For the reasons I said.

And I think we were intended to see that as a symptom of her misery. BUT ITS IN THE PAST.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Moonbase]

I would have to disagree.  There have been plenty of instances and references to Penny over drinking without the other girls being present, including the one where Penny got drunk right after breaking up with Leonard and showing up at his apartment complaining to him about how he ruined her because it was his fault that she realized how stupid her date was.  She mentioned that they would have to go a long ways to find a bar where no one had ever seen her naked, etc.   Even getting drunk with the other girls being present doesn't mean she is not a binge drinker.  

 

I agree, there are loads of glass in hand scenes as well. They have cheapened Penny, not matured her. Now we have yet another story about her colourful past thrown in. Penny may have been dating a lot of guys, before she fell in love with Leonard but she knew that she was getting her heart broken. She was less shallow and much more sensitive. She certainly wasn't a natural bully.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Moonbase

[terriblewaitress]

This month, I've gotten drunk three times and had the occasional drink during the week; more than what Penny has been shown to drink so by your standards I would be an alcoholic too. Better get myself down to AA.

 

Preach, sista. I'll see you there!  

 

I would have to disagree.  There have been plenty of instances and references to Penny over drinking without the other girls being present, including the one where Penny got drunk right after breaking up with Leonard and showing up at his apartment complaining to him about how he ruined her because it was his fault that she realized how stupid her date was.  She mentioned that they would have to go a long ways to find a bar where no one had ever seen her naked, etc.   Even getting drunk with the other girls being present doesn't mean she is not a binge drinker.  

 

But that was before, when she was younger and going through rough times. I don't remember this happening recently?

 

I agree, there are loads of glass in hand scenes as well. They have cheapened Penny, not matured her. Now we have yet another story about her colourful past thrown in. Penny may have been dating a lot of guys, before she fell in love with Leonard but she knew that she was getting her heart broken. She was less shallow and much more sensitive. She certainly wasn't a natural bully.

 

Glass-in-hand scenes, okay. I have a lot of glass-in-hand nights. Most nights actually. Some nights I'll sit downstairs with my mum over a few glasses of wine, or my friends will come over and we'll have a natter... I don't see what's wrong with doing that. Even after I finish a shift or shut down the bar I'll sit with the people who are still there and have a few drinks. It's just what you do. She hasn't done it this season to purposely get really drunk because she's upset, it's just a social thing to do that she's used to. 

[Nogravitasatall]

I agree, there are loads of glass in hand scenes as well. They have cheapened Penny, not matured her. Now we have yet another story about her colourful past thrown in. Penny may have been dating a lot of guys, before she fell in love with Leonard but she knew that she was getting her heart broken. She was less shallow and much more sensitive. She certainly wasn't a natural bully.

Rounded her character. Fleshed her out. Cheapening is a bit more value laden than I'd be comfortable with. And we didn't know so much about her then. She would pop out of her apartment like a figure from the Strasbourg Clock in the early seasons. Now we know more.

[Fruit Loop]

Hello

 

I am a Lenny fan  but, Penny was already CHEAP

 

 

Penny lived in a bottle and went to bed with Raj. OK he shot before he aimed but Penny was helping him put on a condom at the time. She posed Naked for David Underhill's phone camera for free on like their second date. So being paid to do a topless movie shouldn't be all that bad considering she wants to be a movie star.  

 

I believe the writers are just reminding us how much different (Street Wise) Penny is compared to the rest of the cast.

 

 

.

[I.Am.Molly]

I'm at work,and I can't figure out how to multi quote on my phone so I'm not going to bother! Haha tdawg, I'm glad your joining me, I wasn't sure I'd be able to do it with out you.

Edited August 26, 2013 by I.Am.Molly

[terriblewaitress]

 

I believe the writers are just reminding us how much different (Street Wise) Penny is compared to the rest of the cast.

 

 

True. Maybe to show how much she's changed since then. 

 

Molly why is everything you write appearing twice? Are you trying to re-iterate your point! Ha.

 

A slut? Maybe a little. But you know, I know plenty of people like that, so that's not something that really stands out to me. It stands out to me that it's been mentioned, and that she was probably at her worst during Season 4 and after the Raj thing, but has been changing throughout these past two seasons to who she is now. 

[I.Am.Molly]

Molly why is everything you write appearing twice? Are you trying to re-iterate your point! Ha.

Yes. Lets say that's the reason and it has nothing to do with a crappy connection. Haha

I'm not surprised u know many sluts either.

[Kasey]

I don't know why people in general do not accept that people can change be it a real person or a fictional character.  What one did even as soon as yesterday does not mean that they will do it today.  I have seen it on other show forums to.  So and so didn't like this one 6 years ago so why are they speaking nicely to them?  And so forth. 

 

I don't think Penny is an alcoholic.  Does she like to drink?  Sure so do lot's of people and that doesn't make them alcoholics.  To me, Raj would have been more of an alcoholic because he couldn't talk to women without it.  And by all accounts Leonard is now one because he's drinking on the ship at sea. 

 

Labels - everyone needs to have one I guess...

[Carlos]

Take your white knight routine somewhere else.  I'm sorry if my explanation of how most red-blooded males in the company of a bunch of other males would act somehow offended your delicate sensibilities.

 

Again, you are wrong and I mind the tone and implications about my "delicate sensibilities" , and the fact that you characterize my opinion as "white knight routine". Also I don't know who you think you are telling where I can and can't give my opinion. Besides what I was characterizing as shallow, immature, crass and insecure is your need to tell others for validation . If you respond to my posts at least try to understand them.

[BangerMain]

Glass-in-hand scenes, okay. I have a lot of glass-in-hand nights. Most nights actually. Some nights I'll sit downstairs with my mum over a few glasses of wine, or my friends will come over and we'll have a natter... I don't see what's wrong with doing that. Even after I finish a shift or shut down the bar I'll sit with the people who are still there and have a few drinks. It's just what you do. She hasn't done it this season to purposely get really drunk because she's upset, it's just a social thing to do that she's used to. 

 

One of the most important scenes this past season was the Valentine's Day episode when she came back to her apartment and talked to Leonard about marrige. Penny had been drinking before in the resturant but when she was talking to Leonard she went to her refrigerator and opened a bottle of water.  I'm convinced this was done on purpose with the intent to show that though she was very upset, she knew this was not the time to cloud her mind with drink. She and Leonard were getting on with some serious business and she wanted to be clear headed.

 

Penny drinks socially and we have seen her drunk only once since Lenny 2.0, when the guys had their Star Wars game weekend in season 5 and she played a drinking game with Amy.

Edited August 26, 2013 by BangerMain

[SRAM]

Tomorrows episode is suppose to be Leonard's homecoming, isn't it? I wonder if we will get a touching Lenny moment, WITHOUT SHELDON?