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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


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So what some posters are saying is that it is alright for Penny to ask for support on some business venture that may or may not work. However, it's terrible of her for quitting her job to follow her dream because she would probably need Leonard's financial support. Must be me, but I'm not following the logic.

I don't know who said that it's terrible for the CF, but I am not one of them.

And asking support isn't a bad thing, as long as you talk about it, not demand it.

That is where the difference lies imho.

Not that Penny would demand, nor would she have too.

Her friends always helped her out, wether its Sheldon, Leonard or any of the others.

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1st of all she would have to give up her dream.

2ndly Raj isn't loaded, his parents are loaded.

3rdly, and most importantly from my personal perspective, she would be working with the one character that I loath. He isn't trustworthy and therefore would be a very bad business partner IMHO.

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1st of all she would have to give up her dream.

2ndly Raj isn't loaded, his parents are loaded.

3rdly, and most importantly from my personal perspective, she would be working with the one character that I loath. He isn't trustworthy and therefore would be a very bad business partner IMHO.

Well, I am not gonna "argue" about feelings towards/against a certain character, since feelings are an opinion, not a fact.

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Just because Penny gives up on her acting dream doesn't mean she can't find a passion in something else.

Yeah, that's the problem, she has another passion. She just spends too much on it, shoes. :p

Interestingly though, it doesn't seem she wear all that many. A couple of pairs of heels, a couple of flats, former work shoes. The rest of the time she seems to be wearing Flip-flops or none at all( not counting her(or Leonard's)high tops.)

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Yeah, that's the problem, she has another passion. She just spends too much on it, shoes. :p

Interestingly though, it doesn't seem she wear all that many. A couple of pairs of heels, a couple of flats, former work shoes. The rest of the time she seems to be wearing Flip-flops or none at all( not counting her(or Leonard's)high tops.)

 

It seems Penny's shoe hobby is a lot more talk than reality. My only explanation is that she buys a pair, wears it once, and then returns them. Which would be good news for her finances if true (unless they only give her store credit). 

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Okay this is off the wall, but what if Penny went for an audition, only to find out it was a job interview and ended up with a job at a studio.  It wouldn't be acting, but it would be in the business.  It would also get her close to handsome actors, that would cause more conflict with Leonard, which the writers seem to savor to write their comedy around them.

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The tension between L/P over her being around good looking actors is getting old.  That scenario has been around for a while and seemed to be put away with her first ILY after Leonard was insecure over the classmate with the English accent.  The whole scenario seems would make the show seem like it is regressing.   

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I would like to apologize for my rant a few pages ago. I'm in the midst of dealing with some family health crises (successfully resolved), was tired and really didn't need to read that Lenny is going to be going through some rough sledding. With no hope of a hint of resolution until mid-January at best. I still find it difficult to believe that the writers managed to concoct a scenario where Penny actually proposes to Leonard, and the right answer was for Leonard to not say yes.

One concern I have in catching up on the past few pages of posts is there is a lot of talk about Penny, and what she thinks, her career, and how she might become more involved with virtually any other character than Leonard. I'm glad she is no longer going to be at the CCF; that was played out. It was worth it simply to clear out space on the soundstage. Canon suggests that she will continue to pursue acting, but will not have major success. So something better than what we've seen so far, but no starring roles in major productions. Say if she got a couple of gigs like the NCIS role a month, she'd be at least as good as the CCF, financially. Two to four a month would gross $4000-$8000. That's pretty decent money. I wonder if that's what the writers have in mind.

However, Lenny is left hanging. What was Penny really thinking, even "tipsy"? Was she simply trying to do something nice for Leonard, without thinking. Seems unlikely, givng the unexplained commitment issues. Possibly this suggests the first crack in those issues. But having broken on through and asked, why take it back? What does this accomplish? That she wanted to marry him when she was impaired to some degree, but in thinking about it clearly does not want to be married? Are the writers simply going to drop this arc, as they so often do, for the next shiny trinket of an idea? Multiple episode arcs are not their style. These are questions that bug me, since it seems that any forward motion in Lenny has been stopped dead in their tracks.

It would be typical of Penny to quit the CCF without discussing it with Leonard simply because it didn't occur to her that she should.. If, as we so optimistically hope, Leonard and Penny are for all intents and purposes permanently committed, then she needs to start thinking this way. Leonard involves Penny in his life (asking about the North Sea trip first). This was done correctly. Penny clearly saw it was a great opportunity, and was onboard and supportive. Consider as a counter example Howard going to space. He didn't involve his fiancee in the decision, just assuming it would be OK. Bernie had a right to be concerned, since the chance of Howard dying were considerably greater than sitting on a boat in the North Sea. He should have talked about it to her first. Amy discussed working at CalTech with Sheldon, and got his OK. So we have evidence that the writers know the good and bad ways to handle these issues in the couples. What is the message here? I guess Penny needs to learn how to be the partner in a committed relationship, and she could learn much about this from both her SO and Amy about this. Leonard is being asked to be supportive of a fait accompli.

The basic idea of quitting the CCF is good. Getting really serious about what she regards as her career is something that Leonard would be fully supportive of, I believe. He knows she is really good at acting. Why be afraid of taking to him? Logic suggests it didn't occur to her to do so. This supports the idea mentioned earlier that Lorre, I believe, thinks Shamy is the healthiest couple.

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I would like to apologize for my rant a few pages ago. I'm in the midst of dealing with some family health crises (successfully resolved), was tired and really didn't need to read that Lenny is going to be going through some rough sledding. With no hope of a hint of resolution until mid-January at best. I still find it difficult to believe that the writers managed to concoct a scenario where Penny actually proposes to Leonard, and the right answer was for Leonard to not say yes.

One concern I have in catching up on the past few pages of posts is there is a lot of talk about Penny, and what she thinks, her career, and how she might become more involved with virtually any other character than Leonard. I'm glad she is no longer going to be at the CCF; that was played out. It was worth it simply to clear out space on the soundstage. Canon suggests that she will continue to pursue acting, but will not have major success. So something better than what we've seen so far, but no starring roles in major productions. Say if she got a couple of gigs like the NCIS role a month, she'd be at least as good as the CCF, financially. Two to four a month would gross $4000-$8000. That's pretty decent money. I wonder if that's what the writers have in mind.

However, Lenny is left hanging. What was Penny really thinking, even "tipsy"? Was she simply trying to do something nice for Leonard, without thinking. Seems unlikely, givng the unexplained commitment issues. Possibly this suggests the first crack in those issues. But having broken on through and asked, why take it back? What does this accomplish? That she wanted to marry him when she was impaired to some degree, but in thinking about it clearly does not want to be married? Are the writers simply going to drop this arc, as they so often do, for the next shiny trinket of an idea? Multiple episode arcs are not their style. These are questions that bug me, since it seems that any forward motion in Lenny has been stopped dead in their tracks.

It would be typical of Penny to quit the CCF without discussing it with Leonard simply because it didn't occur to her that she should.. If, as we so optimistically hope, Leonard and Penny are for all intents and purposes permanently committed, then she needs to start thinking this way. Leonard involves Penny in his life (asking about the North Sea trip first). This was done correctly. Penny clearly saw it was a great opportunity, and was onboard and supportive. Consider as a counter example Howard going to space. He didn't involve his fiancee in the decision, just assuming it would be OK. Bernie had a right to be concerned, since the chance of Howard dying were considerably greater than sitting on a boat in the North Sea. He should have talked about it to her first. Amy discussed working at CalTech with Sheldon, and got his OK. So we have evidence that the writers know the good and bad ways to handle these issues in the couples. What is the message here? I guess Penny needs to learn how to be the partner in a committed relationship, and she could learn much about this from both her SO and Amy about this. Leonard is being asked to be supportive of a fait accompli.

The basic idea of quitting the CCF is good. Getting really serious about what she regards as her career is something that Leonard would be fully supportive of, I believe. He knows she is really good at acting. Why be afraid of taking to him? Logic suggests it didn't occur to her to do so. This supports the idea mentioned earlier that Lorre, I believe, thinks Shamy is the healthiest couple.

First of all, I'm glad your family health issue was resolved.

 

Your scenario of Penny getting enough small acting jobs to keep her afloat is plausible, though I'm not sure how it would carry over in the long run as I know little to nothing about the business.

As for the proposal, I'm sure Penny wants to get engaged to Leonard at some point. I think there have been enough hints of this to remain confident of the eventual outcome. I agree that she should have discussed quitting CCF with Leonard, in the real world she probably would have. Of course, this isn't the real world and Penny was just being true to her impulsive nature.

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Why would Penny change her mind about continuing her acting career?  Just because she took a risky move in quitting the CCF doesn't mean that she's going to suddenly have a complete career change.  If Penny wants to concentrate on her acting career so much that she would take that big step, why would she want to get another non-acting job or start a business or sell real estate?

 

I have never understood why people want to change her so completely--have her get a degree, work in an office, whatever.  Just because her career choice is not a straight-laced office job or whatever doesn't mean that it's unworthy.  Yeah, it's hard to break through and be successful, but it's not impossible.

 

And I think that the story of Penny's life is not how to make her more like the others, but just to show what it's like for her as she muddles through her career.  Though she's not a BIG actor, she has gotten work, and can probably continue to get work, even if she doesn't end up on a blockbuster movie or an ongoing role on a series.  So I think the show will continue to show us the ups and downs of her acting career, not have her quit to become something boring like someone's secretary, etc.

 

I don't think she has to be changed in that regard.  And her career choices are not Leonard's to make.  Yeah, it's shocking that she should just quit, but she's not asking Leonard to support her and she's not asking his permission to quit her job.  They're not engaged or married or anything and though he may think she's made a rash decision, again, it's her decision alone.

Whether or not it's a wise decision is perhaps part of the story they're planning to tell, but quitting her day job may be the very thing she has needed to do to jump-start her focus and make herself work harder for those parts.

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  And her career choices are not Leonard's to make.  Yeah, it's shocking that she should just quit, but she's not asking Leonard to support her and she's not asking his permission to quit her job.  They're not engaged or married or anything and though he may think she's made a rash decision, again, it's her decision alone.

This. It's not fitting to compare it to Leonard leaving for the North Sea or Howard going to space, both of which required they be away from their partners for months, is not the same as Penny quitting TCF. This does not impact him, and it seems most of the posters here are a lot more upset about it. Amy getting permission from Sheldon to switch jobs only demonstrates the unhealthy level in which she has to tiptoe around him. 

 

I think the arts are a great profession, I hope my suggestions aren't suggesting otherwise, I just know that the writers have little interest in giving her any acting success and I would like to see her have other options. I know she is supposed to represent the majority of young women who come to LA and are forced to readjust their expectations. I still think she can get work within the industry, be it a small acting role or something BTS. We'll just have to wait and see. 

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What I'm saying is that there's nothing to indicate that she can't be at least moderately successful as an actress.  People are constantly trying to imagine her doing something else when there's nothing that indicates that the writers have any intention of having her suddenly become something she clearly doesn't want to become.  If she wanted to do something else, like sell real estate or whatever, she probably would never have come to LA to do it.

 

What it comes down to is that if the writers want her to continue to pursue acting, then that's what she will be doing, no matter what various fans want.  The writers don't want her to become famous or rich or whatever, but that doesn't mean she can't have some success--like her NCIS part.  If it had aired as she expected, she still wouldn't have become a star or have had a steady gig on the show, but it would have been a stepping stone in a long journey.  Even though it didn't air, the fact that the hired her in the first place means that she was the best one who auditioned for the role, not just some flighty naïve idiot from the boondocks.

 

I think she has realized a lot of things about her acting career already--we heard that sort of thing back in S4 and earlier, like in the Barbarian episode, or in one of the Priya episodes, where Penny talked about the audition that turned out to be for a porn film.  She isn't looking at the industry with rose-tinted glasses, like she might have been doing when we first met her.

 

As for your comment about Amy and Sheldon--Amy most certainly did NOT ask Sheldon for permission to work at CalTech.  She simply informed him of her opportunity and asked him how he felt about the idea.  When he later tried to tell her that he didn't want her working there (because of Howard's comments) she told him that she wasn't asking his permission and that no matter what he said, she had already accepted the position and was going to be working there.  She said that she was first and foremost a scientist.

Sheldon thought he was giving or denying her permission to work at CalTech and she very quickly set him straight on that issue.  Did you not hear their dialog in those scenes?

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I think we may be honing in on what the real question is with regard to Penny leaving the CCF. It isn't thay Howard wouldn't have gone to the ISS, or that Amy wouldn't have taken the opportunity at CalTech, or Leonard would have not gone to the North Sea to work with Stephen Hawking. They would have done these things regardless because first and foremost, they were scientists. Bernie raised legitimate concerns about her feelings based on her experiences with her dad being a cop. Going to space is a very dangerous activity, which quite frankly, Howard wasn't up for. As an engaged couple, they should have talked about Howard going because his life was on the line. He needed Bernie on board. Penny and at least initially Sheldon were either supportive or didn't object to their SO's plans. The only conflict here was raised by others.

If the reason Leonard objected to her quitting the CCF was in the taping report, I missed it. His reason may have been a good one (Penny just may have had the NCIS check and nothing else, for example). Involving Leonard, a very smart guy, in planning for working full time as an actress, likely would aid the success of the project. If the reason was that Leonard was made insecure because for some reason the change would threaten their relationship, Penny could have calmed those fears.

There is also the sense in the thread that working at the CCF, or any other job, was interfering with Penny's acting career, yet most actors have second jobs, as has been pointed out on this thread by those experienced in the field. Was working at the CCF interfering with her acting? I don't know. Is it a symbolic act, like the Spaniads burning their ships?

Has Leonard ever objected to her career as an actress? I don't think so. He was a little derisive of the psychic's prediction, but he doesn't believe in psychics. He made Sheldon go to her play sans toys, and he was certainly going, so that sounds pretty supportive.

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Another question that puzzles me. It has been stated by many that Penny needs professional success in order to propose to Leonard. Something to do with financial equality in the relationship. If this is true, then why are her work related decisions off limits for discussion with Leonard? It would seem that the future of Lenny is tied up in her success or failure. The point being that Penny won't propose or otherwise accept engagement to Leonard without career success, yet her only foray into engagement territory since last season's finale (which was to shut down Bernie's suggestion) came on the heels of what she viewed as a career disaster. Which, by the way, it wasn't. It was just the vagaries of the business.

I would think that it would make more sense for Penny to remove any uncertainties in other aspects of her life in order to focus on her acting career. She is willing to fully commit to acting. Why not do the same with Leonard? Get engaged to and marry Leonard, so that part of her life is settled. Why leave it in the air, unless she is not fully committed to the relationship. Matbe that is what will come in late January-early February.

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Another question that puzzles me. It has been stated by many that Penny needs professional success in order to propose to Leonard. Something to do with financial equality in the relationship. If this is true, then why are her work related decisions off limits for discussion with Leonard? It would seem that the future of Lenny is tied up in her success or failure. The point being that Penny won't propose or otherwise accept engagement to Leonard without career success, yet her only foray into engagement territory since last season's finale (which was to shut down Bernie's suggestion) came on the heels of what she viewed as a career disaster. Which, by the way, it wasn't. It was just the vagaries of the business.

I would think that it would make more sense for Penny to remove any uncertainties in other aspects of her life in order to focus on her acting career. She is willing to fully commit to acting. Why not do the same with Leonard? Get engaged to and marry Leonard, so that part of her life is settled. Why leave it in the air, unless she is not fully committed to the relationship. Maybe that is what will come in late January-early February.

 

The position that Penny needs success as as a condition to marry Leonard is a puzzlement. She agreed in "The Spoiler Alert Segmentation" that living with Leonard made great financial sense.

 

With no worries about living expenses:

 

- She can quit her job at the CCF that she hated anyway.

- She can spend full time looking for acting work.

- there are no concerns for those fallow period between parts

- She can get preparation which she needs; Acting school, community theater or college degree prep in the Arts.

 

OK, I know. That would be far too logical for Penny and would end the kind of L/P drama and humor that TBBT writers like to use for them over the years. Penny's impulsiveness, leaping without thought, has been a key component of her character. As she has told Leonard, "Don't over think things" and "I’m cute. I get by." That's Penny's level of planning along with the occasional advice from a fortune teller. And the fireworks begin when Leonard tries to pick up the pieces.

 

In some regard, Penny and Leonard's relationship is like an unmarried version of Lucy and Ricky from "I Love Lucy".

Edited by BangerMain
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Another question that puzzles me. It has been stated by many that Penny needs professional success in order to propose to Leonard. Something to do with financial equality in the relationship. If this is true, then why are her work related decisions off limits for discussion with Leonard? It would seem that the future of Lenny is tied up in her success or failure. The point being that Penny won't propose or otherwise accept engagement to Leonard without career success, yet her only foray into engagement territory since last season's finale (which was to shut down Bernie's suggestion) came on the heels of what she viewed as a career disaster.

 

I think that this question comes down to the power balance in the relationship and the different ways that Penny and Leonard perceive it.

 

In truth, the real power in the relationship lies with Leonard. He is the one with a career which isn't just stable, but thriving. He is the key to the ground of friends, which is a lesson that Penny learned while he was with Priya. For example, when Howard proposed to Bernadette in front of the whole group that was socializing together, Penny missed seeing it because despite the "girls nights" she has with Bernadette and Amy, when the overall group is together, it's nucleus is Leonard. Sheldon, Howard and Raj flock around Leonard, and therefor, when their girlfriends want to hang out too, everyone is in Sheldon and Leonard's apartment, being together as a group. If Penny breaks up with Leonard, and especially if he dates someone else who does not want his ex hanging around (which most people would really not, especially if they looked like Penny), then Penny is the one who has to go. But everyone else has reason to stay, and will stay. So the social power also lies with Leonard. Financially, he's also the stable one (at least in relation to her) and thus he has that power in the relationship too.

 

The irony is that Leonard doesn't see things this way, and doesn't understand Penny's frustrations or her desire for some independence or strength of her own, because from his point of view she holds the sexual power, the emotional power where he's drawn to her. In Leonard's eyes, Penny holds the power and he really doesn't always understand why she bristles at him sometimes about being her Mr. Fix-It.

 

Someone up thread made a list of the things Leonard does to "fix it" for Penny, saying that this is the basis of their entire relationship. The problem is that things are more complicated than that list. Just going to get Penny's TV or doing her the favor of accepting her new furniture? Those are just mild favors as far as Penny was concerned - it's not really fixing anything. Being there as a should to cry on when her feelings have been hurt by some jerk? Well, that's the honest-to-God type of support which we all need - emotional support in times of crisis. That's looking for some human comfort from a friend, it's not necessarily "fixing" a problem for you. But then there are things like her paper for school, in which case Leonard really was overstepping his bounds to try to fix something for her and make it better - even when she had asked him to let her stand on her own two feet. As Penny pointed out, it's not "elves" helping her in the night, it's her learning to fish for herself - learning to stand on her own two feet even if she fails. You learn a lot in failure, you learn how to get support from friends, you learn a lesson in way you failed, perhaps, you also learn to pick yourself up and keep going, if you have that moxie, inner strength and character about you. Penny actually wants to go through some of those experiences and become more adult, and when Leonard tries to fix things for her and make life softer, he's standing in the way of her personal growth, and that's when Penny resents it.

 

The "fixing" is not always the same type of fixing, and some of it is healthy and needed, and some of it is actually unhealthy and detrimental for Penny's growth. It also keeps her from achieving a sort of personal power she needs to be on more level ground with Leonard. Leonard always has a problem seeing that because Leonard doesn't really see or understand the inequality in their positions which I genuinely think that Penny does, and sometimes resents. She has no problem holding the sexual power, and sometimes takes that she does for granted, and sometimes she'll use it to her advantage because, as Raj noted to her, it's the only arrow in her quiver that she's got. The issue arises when Penny wants to expand herself to get a few more types of arrows in her quiver, and as she's found out this season and last, she's not very good at that! She really doesn't have many, and she's still growing up (she's 5 years younger than Leonard, and this is the problem with age differences in relationships, the power inequality, unless you have someone who is looking for a sugar parent combined with the person who wants to be a sugar parent) but reaching that point in time where she can't quite float anymore the way people in their early to mid-20's can.

 

Career success is important for Penny for her own sense of self-worth, and to establish some sort of equality and power-balance in her relationship with Leonard. To want to establish this before settling down with him is pretty noble and smart, I think. I am concerned with the sense that if Penny achieves success that she's going to be the type to suddenly make a whole new group of famous and rich friends, and she'll suddenly leave Leonard behind because their lives are not compatible anymore, and she's finally got all the glamour and everything she's always wanted. I have to agree that it's not necessarily a good sign that when her self-esteem took a huge beating and she was feeling like a failure, she got drunk and tried to twirl Leonard around her little finger and get a boost to her ego with the proposal (which she probably felt sure he'd accept) and that backfired on her. Sure, when she was sober again she knew she made a mistake and was glad that Leonard didn't say yes, but even though I find it very human and understandable for someone to go looking for an ego boost when they feel at their lowest, I wouldn't want to marry Penny either if she's only at the level of maturity that she tosses around something like marriage, Leonard's feelings, and a lot of alcohol in order to comfort herself. Some people might argue with me on this, but that ain't admirable behavior in any way, shape or form. I feel really bad for Leonard that Penny attempted to use him like that, and left him feeling confused and in pain because he said no but wasn't even sure why he did (although I see it as some self-respect kicking in almost at an instinctual level) and was up at night ruminating on it.

 

I would not mind if Penny learned a lesson about her dreams vs reality. MAYBE quitting the Cheesecake Factory is going to do that for her. Maybe she'll get more into the acting world and be able to see some of the shallowness and trappings of it for what it is, and try to balance her life. Perhaps she'll try to hang out with old friends and realize that she's not the person she used to be. Perhaps, like with Zack, when listening to him talk while trying to get him to sign annulment papers she'll be hit with that painful feeling of what a truly dumb choice she had made and how she's not that person anymore either.

 

Unfortunately, I think that this plotline is somehow going to led to Leonard moving in with Penny. There's been far too many hints about Leonard being sick of living with Sheldon this season, and some commentary about Amy still wanting to live with Sheldon, for me to think that's not in the offing somewhere. I also would not put my heart into thinking a real proposal between Penny and Leonard will happen this season. My guess is that is that at some point it's going to be, "I'm not ready to propose....except to propose living together" from Penny, and Leonard will accept. That might even be the cliffhanger to end the season, with next season Penny and Leonard going through the living together pains, and Sheldon trying to deal with being on his own. (Maybe he'll somehow bring in Zack to live with, and we can have about 3 episodes of Zack living with Sheldon and driving Leonard and Penny up the wall from across the hall before Sheldon has to cut him. Then perhaps Barry will move in, and then perhaps Stuart. And after a whole season, perhaps it'll finally end up being Amy who moves in with him. But we'll see.)

 

I don't like the idea that Penny's attempts at being more serious about acting will lead to failure and some type of financial insecurity that leads to her needing Leonard to move in. I would love it if that's the case at first, and Leonard offers, but Penny rejects him and tells him she needs to sink or swim on her own. (While, perhaps, having terrible anxiety about failing and sending Leonard mixed signals all the way through it. That would be very "Lenny.") Then she asks him to move in, and when he thinks it's just to help pay the rent, she reveals that she has a small recurring role on some small soap and perhaps did a commercial or two, and that's NOT the reason why. The reason why is because she's found enough success, and enough finances that she COULD stand on her own. She just doesn't want to. She wants to be with him, and she wants him to move in with her.

 

For me, that would be the ultimate handling of it. Which probably means it's not going to happen that way at all. ;)

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I think that this question comes down to the power balance in the relationship and the different ways that Penny and Leonard perceive it.

In truth, the real power in the relationship lies with Leonard. He is the one with a career which isn't just stable, but thriving. He is the key to the ground of friends, which is a lesson that Penny learned while he was with Priya.

The social power also lies with Leonard. Financially, he's also the stable one (at least in relation to her) and thus he has that power in the relationship too.

The irony is that Leonard doesn't see things this way, and doesn't understand Penny's frustrations or her desire for some independence or strength of her own, because from his point of view she holds the sexual power, the emotional power where he's drawn to her. In Leonard's eyes, Penny holds the power and he really doesn't always understand why she bristles at him sometimes about being her Mr. Fix-It.

Someone up thread made a list of the things Leonard does to "fix it" for Penny, saying that this is the basis of their entire relationship. The problem is that things are more complicated than that list.

Even when she had asked him to let her stand on her own two feet. As Penny pointed out, it's not "elves" helping her in the night, it's her learning to fish for herself - learning to stand on her own two feet even if she fails. You learn a lot in failure, you learn how to get support from friends, you learn a lesson in way you failed, perhaps, you also learn to pick yourself up and keep going, if you have that moxie, inner strength and character about you. Penny actually wants to go through some of those experiences and become more adult, and when Leonard tries to fix things for her and make life softer, he's standing in the way of her personal growth, and that's when Penny resents it.

The "fixing" is not always the same type of fixing, and some of it is healthy and needed, and some of it is actually unhealthy and detrimental for Penny's growth. It also keeps her from achieving a sort of personal power she needs to be on more level ground with Leonard. Leonard always has a problem seeing that because Leonard doesn't really see or understand the inequality in their positions which I genuinely think that Penny does, and sometimes resents. She has no problem holding the sexual power, and sometimes takes that she does for granted, and sometimes she'll use it to her advantage because, as Raj noted to her, it's the only arrow in her quiver that she's got. The issue arises when Penny wants to expand herself to get a few more types of arrows in her quiver, and as she's found out this season and last, she's not very good at that! She really doesn't have many, and she's still growing up (she's 5 years younger than Leonard, and this is the problem with age differences in relationships, the power inequality, unless you have someone who is looking for a sugar parent combined with the person who wants to be a sugar parent) but reaching that point in time where she can't quite float anymore the way people in their early to mid-20's can.

Career success is important for Penny for her own sense of self-worth, and to establish some sort of equality and power-balance in her relationship with Leonard. To want to establish this before settling down with him is pretty noble and smart, I think.

Unfortunately, I think that this plotline is somehow going to led to Leonard moving in with Penny. There's been far too many hints about Leonard being sick of living with Sheldon this season, and some commentary about Amy still wanting to live with Sheldon, for me to think that's not in the offing somewhere.

 

 

As always Lionne, beautifully thought out.

 

I edited your post to the areas of the Lenny "Fix-it" paradigm which were addressed by my posts up thread. I have commented on this several times before in the last 18 months and I agree with you that it is detrimental to Penny's growth as you so eloquently elaborated.

 

The creators placed this interaction in the pilot and surprisingly they have kept it going for most of 7 season. Penny is the beautiful "loser" who succeeds at nothing except holding the rapt attention and near worship from this brilliant  Ivy League educated scientist. Leonard does not seem to care that she has little to offer him except sex. As far as he is concerned she has this immense sexual power that he craves. As you stated, over the years they have added an emotional component that he needs from her, supposedly keyed to her giving him the warmth that he did not get from his mother. Leonard has decided that he will be Penny's knight in shining armor to keep her from all harm, whether she wants it or not. Enter "Mr. Fix-it".

 

Penny realized that Leonard was out of her class in the season 2 premiere when after their first date she questioned why would Leonard continue to go out with a girl like her. Leonard's attempt to fix Penny's insecurity led to his first major blunder with her and the pattern starts and goes on through this season. Leonard tries  to fix Penny's problems even when she wants to do it on her own and only succeeds in making her feel like more of a loser.

 

The fact is the writers seem to think this trope is hilarious, like I have suggested, a nod to "I Love Lucy". Penny is made to feel a bungler when Leonard is there with her and a depressed, self-loathing over drinker when he is not there. Why TPTB won't let Penny have some success on her own is their little secret. I can see why Penny did not want Leonard to know about her financial problems in season 2,  her going back to school in season 6, her getting a part on NCIS this season or letting her father know that she had broken up with Leonard in season 4.

 

I agree with you the most likely result of Penny's quitting the CCF and trying to make it as an actor is another tour through the Leonard fix-it loop. But just maybe they will surprise us this time with a Penny success. We know it's not going to be big but just enough to make her think she can marry Leonard as an equal.

Edited by BangerMain
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As for your comment about Amy and Sheldon--Amy most certainly did NOT ask Sheldon for permission to work at CalTech.  She simply informed him of her opportunity and asked him how he felt about the idea. 

 

This is all most of us are suggesting in regards to Penny quitting TCF.  There are just a few posters who are too myopic to comprehend it.  I have not seen a single person suggest that Penny needed Leonard's permission to quit TCF.  But, people who are in serious committed relationships get their significant other's thoughts before making big life choices.

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As for your comment about Amy and Sheldon--Amy most certainly did NOT ask Sheldon for permission to work at CalTech.  She simply informed him of her opportunity and asked him how he felt about the idea.  

I submit that Amy would have, in a split second, declined the invitation to be a consultant if Shelly objected originally. She only became steadfast when Shelly came over and objected when Howard swayed his thinking. Shelly stated his objection to Amy in front of the rest of the girls, which caused AFF to be so defensive,

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The creators placed this interaction in the pilot and surprisingly they have kept it going for most of 7 season. Penny is the beautiful "loser" who succeeds at nothing except holding the rapt attention and near worship from this brilliant  Ivy League educated scientist. 

This very well may be true, however, it can not be sustained. Eventually even the new viewers will become tired of the character Penny who "is the beautiful loser who succeeds at nothing". She needs to achieve some level of success, achievement, or even the most insouciant viewer will be dismayed.

I truly believe that some type of success will be coming to Penny. What that success will ultimately mean is a different story. It could be a good sign to us Lenny shippers or it also can be a harbinger to further large or small bumps in the road for the wonderful couple. I'm always the optimist and therefore rooting for good things ahead! :)

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The word of God has stated that Penny will never have success at acting.

 

So you care about Penny as a character, and then you have to accept that.

 

Its no wonder people try to find ways for her to have success, rather than admit they like a character that is, and will be, a loser.

 

Is Leonard supposed to be some type of consolation prize?

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The word of God has stated that Penny will never have success at acting.

 

So you care about Penny as a character, and then you have to accept that.

 

Its no wonder people try to find ways for her to have success, rather than admit they like a character that is, and will be, a loser.

 

Is Leonard supposed to be some type of consolation prize?

It appears so! You can't fight god!

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It appears so! You can't fight god!

 

The word of God has stated that Penny will never have success at acting.

 

So you care about Penny as a character, and then you have to accept that.

 

Its no wonder people try to find ways for her to have success, rather than admit they like a character that is, and will be, a loser.

 

Is Leonard supposed to be some type of consolation prize?

 

 

I'm confused. What happened? 

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