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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


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About the L/P relationship, I do not get what the writers really want us to think.

 

Because everytime I see Penny and Leonard I can't forget this moment on Valentine's day at the restaurant where Penny was really jealous about her ex bf and his new gf, paying no attention to Leonard and pointing out that she doesn't have the life she deserves.

I took it like a proof of Penny's real feelings, just like she's hiding it all the time because she's trying to act wisely and save that kind of security she's got with leonard.

 

I don't see a love growing up, I only see a frustrated girl who tries to cope with what is given to her, but she's not really happy, she's still a girl who dreams of a better life.

 

So now I'm watching S7 there is some kind of bitter taste in the L/P relationship

I can't help feeling the same way as you. The Valentines episode ended okay, but in the restaurant all I could think was WTF. I also think Penny has some real commitment issues that are still unresolved and I think this stalling is just making the character more unlikeable.

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I can't help feeling the same way as you. The Valentines episode ended okay, but in the restaurant all I could think was WTF. I also think Penny has some real commitment issues that are still unresolved and I think this stalling is just making the character more unlikeable.

 

 

Yes it's probably the main reason, but I feel like Leonard is more like a father to her, not a person she's sharing something with. And every new episode she tries to express her need to emancipate herself, but then, as a child who needs comfort, always comes back to Leonard.

 

So I think Penny needs to become independent and also mature,  I also think the writers see Leonard as the one who'll help her grow up and realize who she is, but not on the way the spectators expect it. 

 

It wasn't about Gretchen at all.  Gretchen was simply the trigger for Penny  to try and destroy the evening.   There could have been a couple of things working there.  One, she didn't feel she deserves Leonard and that was just an effort to prove that she didn't deserve him.  Two, it could be just as she said when they discussed it later in her apartment.  The idea of getting married forever, scares her.  That temper tantrum at the restaurant was simply her way of messing up the relationship.  The thinking there is if she messes up the relationship,  she doesn't have to worry about the thing that scares her, getting married.   

 

What she said sounded more nasty, because actually she meant Leonard was not good enough for her, and was not what she really wants. 

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It wasn't about Gretchen at all.  Gretchen was simply the trigger for Penny  to try and destroy the evening.   There could have been a couple of things working there.  One, she didn't feel she deserves Leonard and that was just an effort to prove that she didn't deserve him.  Two, it could be just as she said when they discussed it later in her apartment.  The idea of getting married forever, scares her.  That temper tantrum at the restaurant was simply her way of messing up the relationship.  The thinking there is if she messes up the relationship,  she doesn't have to worry about the thing that scares her, getting married.   

 

I'm convinced that the two issues are linked, Penny does not feel she is worthy of Leonard nor can she see her self married to such a man forever. What will she offer him when she is 20 years older and things are starting to sag on that magnificent body? As Raj said, sex is the only arrow in her quiver.

 

She has been attached in the past to stupid, unsuccessful men who she did not value or guys she thought had something going for them only to be dumped for another woman who was considered more exceptional or just as disposable as her. She got that verified when she has broken up with Leonard only to see him go deal with very exceptional women while she had the Zack-type booby prizes. As we saw with Alex, she is terrified of women who are beautiful and smart.

 

Anyway you look at it, Penny can not imagine being in a long term relationship, especially with some one like Leonard, who she knows has better options. The only lengthy one she has had was Kurt and that has got to be a scary memory.

Edited by BangerMain
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I'm convinced that the two issues are linked, Penny does not feel she is worthy of Leonard nor can she see her self married to such a man forever. What will she offer him when she is 20 years older and things are starting to sag on that magnificent body?

 

She has been attached in the past to stupid, unsuccessful men or  guys she thought had something going for them only to be dumped for another woman who was considered more exceptional or just as disposable as her. She got that verified when she broke up with Leonard in season 3 only to see him go deal with very exceptional women while she had the Zack booby prize.

 

Anyway you look at it, Penny can not imagine being in a long term relationship, especially with some one like Leonard, who she knows has better options. The only lengthy one she has had was Kurt and that has got to be a scary memory.

Wow, that is a pretty dire analysis of Penny's feeling regarding their relationship. When do you predict she breaks up then with Leonard since she can't see them in the long term?

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Wow, that is a pretty dire analysis of Penny's feeling regarding their relationship. When do you predict she breaks up then with Leonard since she can't see them in the long term?

 

 

You have that a bit off, it's not that Penny can't visualize them in a long term relationship, it's that she doesn't see how Leonard would hang around for a long term relationship.  The Valentine's Day episode is a classic, I don't deserve the good things that I have, so I'll destroy them to prove I don't deserve them.   Leonard has a similar problem from time to time.  He doesn't understand why Penny would want to be in a long term relationship with him, considering the good looking, muscular, guys she has gotten in the past.  It's a bit ironic to see them looking at the other and thinking why would they stay with me?  When the other is thinking the very same thing, for a different reason.  

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You have that a bit off, it's not that Penny can't visualize them in a long term relationship, it's that she doesn't see how Leonard would hang around for a long term relationship.  The Valentine's Day episode is a classic, I don't deserve the good things that I have, so I'll destroy them to prove I don't deserve them.   Leonard has a similar problem from time to time.  He doesn't understand why Penny would want to be in a long term relationship with him, considering the good looking, muscular, guys she has gotten in the past.  It's a bit ironic to see them looking at the other and thinking why would they stay with me?  When the other is thinking the very same thing, for a different reason.  

So what you are saying is that their unique relationship allows them to stay together, get engaged and be married for 50 years (like Bernie predicted) all the while worried that the other will eventually break-up with them because they can't see why they were so lucky to be picked by the other.  As long as there is no break-up I'm good with it! :)

 

All kidding aside. One question, I thought the writers visited each others insecurities last year and belayed their fears? If this isn't the case then what exactly will it take to get passed that high hurdle?

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So what you are saying is that their unique relationship allows them to stay together, get engaged and be married for 50 years (like Bernie predicted) all the while worried that the other will eventually break-up with them because they can't see why they were so lucky to be picked by the other.  As long as there is no break-up I'm good with it! :)

Yeah,I think those insecurities will be taken care of before they get married. :p

 

All kidding aside. One question, I thought the writers visited each others insecurities last year and belayed their fears?

 

I thought they did too, although see below.

 

If this isn't the case then what exactly will it take to get passed that high hurdle?

 

wish I had an answer to that. I still don't think they are in a bad place, and I don't think they will break them up. But, they really do have to work out their issues with each other. That is what I think is providing their impetus for this season. Up until the Thanksgiving episode, they were pretty settled (I don't count the Scavenger Vortex as a problem, others might). The taping reports we've had, while Leonard has questioned the relationship, I still don't see them having enough of a problem to break up over it. I just get the feeling that they are trying to work on the more subtle issues of their relationship. YMMV.

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It seems to me the last hurdle was TCF. It's always been the elephant in the room. Penny was never going to marry Leonard while waitressing. The predictable would have been quitting TCF and going back to school. That's way too easy. Quitting TCF and trying to make it as an actress puts a certain time limit on all this if she has no income. To me this forces L/P forward cause something is gotta give. what that is I don't know. I'm guessing acting won't be but something unknown will.

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I think P is a less engaging character than she used to be. Apparently the writers want it this way.Even Lenny seems less likely as a long term committed relationship, I would have been devastated by this possibility just a year or two ago. Less so now, They need to drag Shamy out for upto 3 seasons and now they appear to be doing the same with Lenny.

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About the L/P relationship, I do not get what the writers really want us to think.

 

Because everytime I see Penny and Leonard I can't forget this moment on Valentine's day at the restaurant where Penny was really jealous about her ex bf and his new gf, paying no attention to Leonard and pointing out that she doesn't have the life she deserves.

I took it like a proof of Penny's real feelings, just like she's hiding it all the time because she's trying to act wisely and save that kind of security she's got with leonard.

 

I don't see a love growing up, I only see a frustrated girl who tries to cope with what is given to her, but she's not really happy, she's still a girl who dreams of a better life.

 

So now I'm watching S7 there is some kind of bitter taste in the L/P relationship

the next episode will help you to support your statement a bit more... penny settling for leonard...

Penny while trying to break-up with Leonard the second time around clearly was giving this sort of vibe....that she could do a lot better...and that she had a lot better...

Edited by vasu
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Penny while trying to break-up with Leonard the second time around clearly was giving this sort of vibe....that she could do a lot better...and that she had a lot better...

Funny, it wasn't clear to me… What was clear was she was giving off a "I've never had a guy treat me this way before and I don't what to do with it vibe." Not to mention she still felt weird about the proposal in bed and her admission to Sheldon that she had a lot to figure out. I don't see where any of that supports her having had a lot better, just confusion on her part.

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Yeah,I think those insecurities will be taken care of before they get married. :p  I thought they did too, although see below.  wish I had an answer to that. I still don't think they are in a bad place, and I don't think they will break them up. But, they really do have to work out their issues with each other. That is what I think is providing their impetus for this season. Up until the Thanksgiving episode, they were pretty settled (I don't count the Scavenger Vortex as a problem, others might). The taping reports we've had, while Leonard has questioned the relationship, I still don't see them having enough of a problem to break up over it. I just get the feeling that they are trying to work on the more subtle issues of their relationship. YMMV.

I don't think we're headed for a breakup either. For one, if they break up it is a little hard to have Lenny conflicts, and we saw how inconvenient it was to have the boys and the girls separate most of the time. They wouldnhave to introduce a new girl for Leonard, who would be immediately hated.

The thing they need to have Penny realize is that, even though within the context of the show she is by far the hottest girl, hotness alone couldn't sustain Leonard's interest for all this time. It is just presumed by all that Penny's beauty and sexual prowess are the only things that hold Leonard's attention. A good case can be made that her friendship with Sheldon is proof that there is a lot more going on than simply looks and sex, as Sheldon is immune to both of these things. Sheldon and Penny are friends because to Sheldon, Penny is worthy of his friendship, and vice versa. Penny's only romantic arrows may be her sexuality, but there is no denying her heart.

Penny has actually articulated what she finds desireable in Leonard early in Season 6. One could even use the same list for Penny with regard to Leonard. What keeps their relationship believable is that they are actually very similar in those things that last in relationships. The odd thing is that neither realize this. Further, these characteristics are quite organic to Leonard and Penny. They simply are fundamentally nice people.

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Funny, it wasn't clear to me… What was clear was she was giving off a "I've never had a guy treat me this way before and I don't what to do with it vibe." Not to mention she still felt weird about the proposal in bed and her admission to Sheldon that she had a lot to figure out. I don't see where any of that supports her having had a lot better, just confusion on her part.

Not only that who could she do better with? The only one hit on in the L/P relationship lately was Leonard with Alex. what kind of catch is Penny? She has no job.Her last employer was TCF which wasn't exactly a high class restaurant. She is not exactly "sitting pretty" like her hemorrhoid commercial.
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Not only that who could she do better with? The only one hit on in the L/P relationship lately was Leonard with Alex. what kind of catch is Penny? She has no job.Her last employer was TCF which wasn't exactly a high class restaurant. She is not exactly "sitting pretty" like her hemorrhoid commercial.

And this is the funny part. Penny knows this and is insecure about it, but Leonard doesn't care. She just can't wrap her head around the idea that someone would want her for more than just sex,that someone would want her for just who she is. I'm not saying Leonard doesn't want the sex part, but it's not the only thing keeping him around. He had several other relationships where he was getting sex on a regular basis, but he never lost his feelings for Penny.

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And this is the funny part. Penny knows this and is insecure about it, but Leonard doesn't care. She just can't wrap her head around the idea that someone would want her for more than just sex,that someone would want her for just who she is. I'm not saying Leonard doesn't want the sex part, but it's not the only thing keeping him around. He had several other relationships where he was getting sex on a regular basis, but he never lost his feelings for Penny.

What will be interesting is the next taping report. Since no one seems to know what going on I think a key may be Bernadette's and/or Amy's reaction to all of this. I can't believe they won't have an opinion on what is going on.
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the next episode will help you to support your statement a bit more... penny settling for Leonard...

Penny while trying to break-up with Leonard the second time around clearly was giving this sort of vibe....that she could do a lot better...and that she had a lot better...

 

Funny, it's never been shown that Penny can keep anyone better than Leonard. And she seems to know that. The references are piled high that she can't get anyone better for her than Leonard.

 

It must be a rule in the writer's guide.

Edited by BangerMain
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Define better. Penny described her previous boyfriends as being tall, muscular, handsome, and having a lot of money (1.17); but those relationships all ended terribly. We've seen the supposedly "perfect" woman in Priya but it took all of five minutes to figure out that Leonard was miserable with her. Neither of them can do better than the other because they won't connect with anyone else the way they do with each other. Career and physicality don't make a person more or less deserving of someone. 

Edited by DaisyJane
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Penny seems to have the perception that Leonard is a good boring guy, but safe.

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Define better. Penny described her previous boyfriends as being tall, muscular, handsome, and having a lot of money (1.17); but those relationships all ended terribly. We've seen the supposedly "perfect" woman in Priya but it took all of five minutes to figure out that Leonard was miserable with her. Neither of them can do better than the other because they won't connect with anyone else the way they do with each other. Career and physicality don't make a person more or less deserving of someone.

She does like him more when he is confident and not needy.

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Penny seems to have the perception that Leonard is a good boring guy, but safe.

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She had that before 6.05 The Higgs Boson Observation, but not really since. Boring, but safe does not describe someone having sex in their lab(which is still going on this season) or in a semi-public place, i.e. the TARDIS.

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About the L/P relationship, I do not get what the writers really want us to think.

Because everytime I see Penny and Leonard I can't forget this moment on Valentine's day at the restaurant where Penny was really jealous about her ex bf and his new gf, paying no attention to Leonard and pointing out that she doesn't have the life she deserves.

I took it like a proof of Penny's real feelings, just like she's hiding it all the time because she's trying to act wisely and save that kind of security she's got with leonard.

I don't see a love growing up, I only see a frustrated girl who tries to cope with what is given to her, but she's not really happy, she's still a girl who dreams of a better life.

So now I'm watching S7 there is some kind of bitter taste in the L/P relationship

The L/P relationship is generally normal...but never will it progress until Penny gets career upgrade or Penny has to fight for Leonard from another woman.

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The L/P relationship is generally normal...but never will it progress until Penny gets career upgrade or Penny has to fight for Leonard from another woman.

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Yeah, there was no progress at all last year, was there? And before you say Alex, Leonard wasn't even interested.

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She had that before 6.05 The Higgs Boson Observation, but not really since. Boring, but safe does not describe someone having sex in their lab(which is still going on this season) or in a semi-public place, i.e. the TARDIS.

That seems like a way to make the relationship seem exciting. But they had sex at the halloween party sometime ago. The rest of their relationship is still routine from the last time they were in a relationship.

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That seems like a way to make the relationship seem exciting. But they had sex at the halloween party sometime ago. The rest of their relationship is still routine from the last time they were in a relationship.

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The last time they were in a relationship is even further back than the sex in the TARDIS. By your logic, the last time they were in a relationship matters even less. Can you clarify?

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Yeah, there was no progress at all last year, was there? And before you say Alex, Leonard wasn't even interested.

Yeah. No progress. But I wonder is the Alex character done. She was introduced for a reason. They have common interests and willing to court him so to speak.

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Yeah. No progress.

Can you define progress? They went from an undefined status and Penny being unsure, to Penny saying I love you for the first time and her supporting Leonard going on a four month trip without her.

 

But I wonder is the Alex character done. She was introduced for a reason. They have common interests and willing to court him so to speak.

Yes, she is done. The actress has a recurring role in NCIS and besides, Leonard wasn't interested. To quote Leonard, "I'm not going to do anything, I love Penny." She was introduced for a reason. That reason was to make Penny insecure, she succeeded, but Leonard reassured her. Again, to quote Leonard, "Nothing is going to happen." The bonus was Leonard initiated sex for the first time. No progress there.

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