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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

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I want to add that first, Penny should know that there many reasons for cutting a scene from a show, and that they gave nothing to do with the quality of an extra's work. Second if Penny thought that three lines on NCIS was going to be her big break... well she was just fooling herself, at best it would be a nice bit for her resume. To bad Leonard didn't point out that people end up on the cutting room floor all the time, and can still make it big. Kevin Cosner was cut out of 'The Big Chill' and went on to win an Oscar. That would have made Penny feel better, and they could have had a conversation about her career later (if needed).

 

I'm sure she understands some of the reasons why, but that took a backseat to the humiliation she was feeling at having everyone watch she knows come together to watch only to have the scene not be there. NCIS is the #1 show, so having even a brief one-on-one scene with the star would have been exciting. I wish everyone's immediate reaction wasn't to downplay it. The possibility that someone important could be watching and that I'm sure is a dream come true for a struggling actress. 

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Leonard was Sheldon-level callous following her NCIS disappointment, talk about kicking a person while they're down. I don't care if he was being "honest" or "realistic", he has no clue what the future holds and should have given her credit for the success she has had. She's not deluded enough to think she's going to be an award-winning star, I think she just wanted some reassurance that it could happen, rather than pessimism. I really hope we can see her proven wrong, and I'm now especially glad she didn't wait to get his permission to quit TCF. He doesn't believe in her and shouldn't be given in a say in her career because of that. She knows the odds, but there's still hope. Her being a huge success is still a possibility, though a minute one. Much like Leonard's hope of winning a Nobel Prize in a field that by his own admission has had few discoveries since the 1930s.  

 

 

 

Who cares if it wasn't the whole nine yards? Should he really refuse to say because it's not his fairytale proposal? He was furious when she said no to his, and he later admitted that he was a fool for not saying yes. As for the drinking, she was far too coherent to be drunk from what we've seen. She'd had a few too many drinks to drive but she was definitely thinking straight. Her balance was fine, she was slouching more than staggering over. So he wouldn't have been taking advantage if he had actually had the courage to say yes.  

 

He almost never "corrects Penny's mess" and makes just as many if not more of his own by overthinking things. Intuition is a lot more valuable than analysis for most life situations.

You have actually changed my mind, I think you are right, Leonard does come off in this episode as not supporting her, so why would she discuss her steps to advance her chances for success when he appears to not support her. This is sad for Leonard's character, I really hope they fix this.

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OK I liked the episode. Yes L/P were pretty serious, they should have been. Penny's reactions were very consistent with someone who's dream had been basically destroyed. Leonard did everything he could to make it right, but in Penny's state, it wouldn't have mattered what Leonard said to try to comfort her, it wasn't going to matter. And I like the way they handled the proposal. Daisy, i disagree. It wasn't just the alcohol, it was her whole state of mind. Leonard recognized it, sad AND drunk (although not much) and rightfully didn't want to say yes. But, you have to look at how Penny looked at it. Her part got cut, she was stuck in a dead end job, and the one person she though would stick with her makes her feel rejected. These two people were very disappointed in themselves and each other and it really hurt them to deal with these situations. They both made mistakes in how they handled it. That said, I don't see them breaking up over this (I know, I've seen the next report, but that doesn't come into play here). And I want to say that as an actor, I can't say enough how great Johnny and Kaley handled the whole thing. very impressive. The whole thing felt very real.

I also want to say I didn't like the idea of Penny quitting TCF without discussing it with Leonard. However, after seeing this episode, I can understand how her state of mind would lead her to that. Leonard can sit back and analyze the whole situation, but that's not Penny's way. She's not one to analyze things and doesn't hesitate in doing what she thinks needs to be done(that it's not always correct, and she doesn't think it over is one of her weaknesses). But her apparent feelings and how she feels about the whole situation makes her quitting, because she believes that is the course she needs to follow, authentic.

You have hit the nail on the head!

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You have actually changed my mind, I think you are right, Leonard does come off in this episode as not supporting her, so why would she discuss her steps to advance her chances for success when he appears to not support her. This is sad for Leonard's character, I really hope they fix this.

No need to worry about old mean Leonard not supporting Penny, Sheldon will be there for her and this should make some happy.

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You have actually changed my mind, I think you are right, Leonard does come off in this episode as not supporting her, so why would she discuss her steps to advance her chances for success when he appears to not support her. This is sad for Leonard's character, I really hope they fix this.

But it has been ten years and everything seemed to be dependent on one gig. An earlier poster pointed out that she should realized it could have been cut and even it wasn't there was no guarantee it was to lead to anything else. The problem with Leonard was there was nothing he could have said to her to make her feel better. when she asked him to be honest about her acting there seemed to be a realistic answer or a dishonest answer. neither one was going to work
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Leonard was Sheldon-level callous following her NCIS disappointment, talk about kicking a person while they're down. I don't care if he was being "honest" or "realistic", he has no clue what the future holds and should have given her credit for the success she has had. She's not deluded enough to think she's going to be an award-winning star, I think she just wanted some reassurance that it could happen, rather than pessimism. I really hope we can see him proven wrong, and I'm now especially glad she didn't wait to get his permission to quit TCF. He doesn't believe in her and shouldn't be given in a say in her career because of that. She knows the odds, but there's still hope. Her being a huge success is still a possibility, though a minute one. Much like Leonard's hope of winning a Nobel Prize in a field that by his own admission has had few discoveries since the 1930s.  It's important to have dreams. 

 

He almost never "corrects Penny's mess" and makes just as many if not more of his own by overthinking things. Intuition is a lot more valuable than analysis for most life situations. 

 

Leonard could have timed his honest assessment of her chances of being a star, better. Maybe, for that night he could have continued to give her the "dream" talk. But he owed her the truth. If they truly are going to be married "forever", as Penny put it, they can't live on daydreams. She has to be presented with the odds.

 

Leonard's truth talk was an almost verbatim restatement of what the producer's have said about Penny's acting career over the years. They talked to us fans directly tonight through Leonard. It's not going to happen.

 

This is from Steve Molaro in June of 2013:

 

In general, I think what we have so far is a pretty accurate portrayal of a pretty girl who moved to Los Angeles, and took acting classes, and is trying, and is struggling, and is a waitress. I think for a lot of people, that's the reality. If she starts to get really successful, now we're sort of behind the scenes in Hollywood, and I think that may be not exactly the kind of thing we tend to do on this show. But nothing's ruled out.

 

However your passionate defense of Penny's dreams had enough fire to melt their hearts.

Edited by BangerMain
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Leonard could have timed his honest assessment of her chances of being a star, better. Maybe, for that night he could have continued to give her the "dream" talk. But he owed her the truth. If they truly are going to be married "forever", as Penny put it, they can't live on daydreams. She has to be presented with the odds.

 

Leonard's truth talk was an almost verbatim restatement of what the producer's have said about Penny's acting career over the years. They talked to us fans directly tonight through Leonard. It's not going to happen.

 

However your passionate defense of Penny's dreams had enough fire to melt their hearts.

 

Well she already knows the odds, so what she needed was encouragement, especially in a time like this. Contrary to what he seems to think she's not clueless, and he crossed over the realm of realism into blatant insensitivity then feigned ignorance in hopes she wouldn't get mad. I hope we get some movement in Penny's career, she can have success in the entertainment industry without becoming a huge star. I think his putdowns might have ignited a fire under her butt to prove him wrong. 

 

I ship Lenny as much as the next fan but right now I'm really shipping Penny/career. 

Edited by DaisyJane
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I don't think Leonard was a jerk or acted badly. Leonard chose the wrong time to tell the truth. When asked 'does this make me look fat?' you don't say yes. When someone has just had a career set back and is upset, it's not the time to point out how unlikely their chances of success are. If you need to have that conversation, you want to have it when they are feeling good, or at least wait until a better time. Prepare what you want to say, and make it positive so they won't see what you say as an attack.

You know I thought your post for while and tried to if Leonard had did anything right tonight and came to the conclusion that Leonard was once again in a no win situation. He either told her the truth or he lie to her and in my opinion both was lose-lose position.

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Well she already knows the odds, so what she needed was encouragement, especially in a time like this. Contrary to what he seems to think she's not clueless, and he crossed over the realm of realism into blatant insensitivity then feigned ignorance in hopes she wouldn't get mad. I hope we get some movement in Penny's career, she can have success in the entertainment industry without becoming a huge star. I think his putdowns might have ignited a fire under her butt to prove him wrong. 

 

I ship Lenny as much as the next fan but right now I'm really shipping Penny/career. 

 

 

She asked him point blank to be honest.  He was.   Now turn that around and have him no be honest, how is Penny going to react when she figures out he didn't tell her the truth?   Did you see that she was focusing on and twisting anything he said that wasn't what she wanted to hear?  Penny was upset and lashing out, it didn't matter what Leonard said, and that is a completely natural reaction, but it doesn't make it right.    I'm not giving Leonard a pass here either.  He sure could have phrased quite a few things differently, but I don't see how that his statement were blatantly insensitive (and they sure weren't intentional) or that he feigned ignorance.  Penny is being Penny, Leonard is being Leonard.  They both made errors, and they both need to look at their reactions and to look at themselves.  

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Well she already knows the odds, so what she needed was encouragement, especially in a time like this. Contrary to what he seems to think she's not clueless, and he crossed over the realm of realism into blatant insensitivity then feigned ignorance in hopes she wouldn't get mad. I hope we get some movement in Penny's career, she can have success in the entertainment industry without becoming a huge star. I think his putdowns might have ignited a fire under her butt to prove him wrong.

I ship Lenny as much as the next fan but right now I'm really shipping Penny/career.

She asked to be honest. He was. Penny didn't like that. She shouldn't of asked. Just as Penny has no clue about physics Leonard has no clue about acting (and the other 5 are clueless too). I tonight was somewhat similar to the episode when Penny learned physics from Sheldon to talk to Leonard. What Sheldon taught was more of a put down of his work but Penny really didn't realize it. Edited by Chrismo
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Leonard really was a jerk in the Penny clearly wasn't drunk, so he wouldn't have been taking advantage. He definitely should have said yes. I wasn't big on the idea of her proposing in the first place, and now I definitely don't want to see her do it again. That was miles ahead of both of his and he essentially said no. 

 

Lol, I'll give you credit for being consistent if nothing...

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One thing that struck me was how Leonard said that he didn't accept the proposal and that he wondered what that all meant.  Is there some soul searching going on in Leonard? 

 

Lenny is such a "real" relationship which is why I think it's sometimes painful to watch...

 

 

Again, on a brighter note:  I will not go gently into that good night.  I WILL rage, rage against the dying of the light!!

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You know I thought your post for while and tried to if Leonard had did anything right tonight and came to the conclusion that Leonard was once again in a no win situation. He either told her the truth or he lie to her and in my opinion both was lose-lose position.

 

Absolutely spot-on. Nothing that Leonard said would have been the right thing to say. Be honest up front (like he was) and Penny would get upset and think that he didn't believe in her (like she did); lie to her to spare her feelings and Penny would get upset with him later after she finds out he lied to her. As hurtful as it was for her to hear, I think he did the right thing in being honest, because a relationship without honesty is doomed to failure. (I know this from painful experience.)

 

And DaisyJane, "Penny clearly wasn't drunk"? What episode were you watching? Penny was very clearly drunk... maybe not falling-down senseless, but drunk nevertheless. Leonard agreeing to her proposal when she's in that state would have been wrong. You don't take advantage of, or make agreements with, a person who is not in a sober, rational state of mind. You. Just. Don't.

Edited by Martin Pollard
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She asked him point blank to be honest.  He was.   Now turn that around and have him no be honest, how is Penny going to react when she figures out he didn't tell her the truth?   Did you see that she was focusing on and twisting anything he said that wasn't what she wanted to hear?  Penny was upset and lashing out, it didn't matter what Leonard said, and that is a completely natural reaction, but it doesn't make it right.    I'm not giving Leonard a pass here either.  He sure could have phrased quite a few things differently, but I don't see how that his statement were blatantly insensitive (and they sure weren't intentional) or that he feigned ignorance.  Penny is being Penny, Leonard is being Leonard.  They both made errors, and they both need to look at their reactions and to look at themselves.  

 

Feigned ignorance wasn't the best term, I was referring to the way in which insisted that he didn't understand the question when in fact he did. His insensitivity wasn't intentional, but the complete lack of tact displayed was reminiscent of Sheldon. 

 

And DaisyJane, "Penny clearly wasn't drunk"? What episode were you watching? Penny was very clearly drunk... maybe not falling-down senseless, but drunk nevertheless. Leonard agreeing to her proposal when she's in that state would have been wrong. You don't take advantage of, or make agreements with, a person who is not in a sober, rational state of mind. You. Just. Don't.

 

Well she was a lot more coherent than she was in the S3 finale and that didn't stop him from sleeping with her, so that can be used as an excuse. I'd characterize her as tipsy, not alert enough to drive a car but thinking clearly. But we've seen her character drunk in other episodes and it's been worse than it was this episode. 

Edited by DaisyJane

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One thing that struck me was how Leonard said that he didn't accept the proposal and that he wondered what that all meant.  Is there some soul searching going on in Leonard? 

 

Lenny is such a "real" relationship which is why I think it's sometimes painful to watch...

 

 

Again, on a brighter note:  I will not go gently into that good night.  I WILL rage, rage against the dying of the light!!

You know this popped out at me when Leonard says to Penny "We need to talk about the kind of relationship we are in) in promo for 7.13 - look at Penny's expression and of Sheldon is shown jumping in to a private conversation like always.

eta: Kasey are those your grandbabies?

Edited by ArmyGirl
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Well she was a lot more coherent than she was in the S3 finale and that didn't stop him from sleeping with her, so that can be used as an excuse. I'd characterize her as tipsy, not alert enough to drive a car but thinking clearly. But we've seen her character drunk in other episodes and it's been worse than it was this episode. 

 

Yes, but she wasn't only drunk or tipsy, she was sad and hurt.  Those two things together made Leonard's response necessary.

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Yup, right in the sweet spot, drunk enough to make poor decisions, and sober enough to remember it the next day.

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Yes, but she wasn't only drunk or tipsy, she was sad and hurt.  Those two things together made Leonard's response necessary.

You are so right it just wouldn't be fair to Penny or Leonard to become engaged due to Penny being so distraught and feeling like a loser. Leonard may do some stupid thing but he does try to do the right things and especially where Penny is concerned.

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I suppose some people think Leonard should have paraphrased Xander from 'Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered'. 
Saying something like:
It's not that I don't want to. Sometimes the remote impossible possibility that you might marry me was 
all that sustained me. But not now. Not like this. 
This isn't real to you. You're only here because you're drunk and sad. I mean, if I thought you had one 
clue what it would mean to me... (shakes his head) But you don't. So I can't.
Edited by eirwinrommel
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You are so right it just wouldn't be fair to Penny or Leonard to become engaged due to Penny being so distraught and feeling like a loser. Leonard may do some stupid thing but he does try to do the right things and especially where Penny is concerned.

 

There is one Fan Fic I'm extremely enamored of.  In the story, Leonard's wife, not Penny at the time, tells Leonard, "You’ve always done the right thing for people, even when it turned out wrong. Keep doing that darling, no harm will come from a true heart."  I think that line is very accurate description of Leoarnd.

Yup, right in the sweet spot, drunk enough to make poor decisions, and sober enough to remember it the next day.

 

I don't know about sweet spot.  That is a dangerous place to be.  

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I recall that the writers made Howard and Bernie's relationship look rocky right before the engagement. The rumor was that Bernie was going to dump Howard, yet he proposed, and she accepted. I think this is how the writers are setting up some uncertainty for Lenny to make the proposal more dramatic. If Penny had proposed in the last episode, there is no doubt Leonard would have said yes.

Do we have a taping next week? It would be good to kow what is being set up.

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I recall that the writers made Howard and Bernie's relationship look rocky right before the engagement. The rumor was that Bernie was going to dump Howard, yet he proposed, and she accepted. I think this is how the writers are setting up some uncertainty for Lenny to make the proposal more dramatic. If Penny had proposed in the last episode, there is no doubt Leonard would have said yes.

Do we have a taping next week? It would be good to kow what is being set up.

 

Yeah, the taping is Tuesday the fourteenth, five days after the next episode.   Those five days are going to be fun….

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There is one Fan Fic I'm extremely enamored of.  In the story, Leonard's wife, not Penny at the time, tells Leonard, "You’ve always done the right thing for people, even when it turned out wrong. Keep doing that darling, no harm will come from a true heart."  I think that line is very accurate description of Leoarnd.

 

I don't know about sweet spot.  That is a dangerous place to be.  

Yeah I love that fanfic too

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