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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

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Did I miss something? Leonard told the truth which is what Penny asked for. Did he lied to Penny about anything so he must pay the cost?

The things he said, while truthful, could be construed as unsupportive.  Leonard didn't pick the right time to tell the truth. If asked 'does this make my ass look fat?' You don't say 'yes.' You also don't say 'no, the gallon of ice-cream you ate makes your ass look fat'. While either (or both) statement(s) may be true, it's not a good idea to say them (especially to someone who's already upset).

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I re-watched the episode again and the acting Johnny and Kaley did was great, they really nailed their parts. I also watched the proposal scene again, if you watch her movements, she is tipsy, but it was really a no win situation for Leonard. I saw someone else say this but Leonard was honestly trying to help her but he has always had trouble making Penny understand what he is trying to see.

Cause Penny isn't smart.

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I still like the idea of Penny moving in with Leonard and Sheldon - makings of some good comedy.  I'm not sure what explanation they'd come up with for that to happen, but it feels like it would have more comedic potential than having Leonard move in with Penny.

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The things he said, while truthful, could be construed as unsupportive.  Leonard didn't pick the right time to tell the truth. If asked 'does this make my ass look fat?' You don't say 'yes.' You also don't say 'no, the gallon of ice-cream you ate makes your ass look fat'. While either (or both) statement(s) may be true, it's not a good idea to say them (especially to someone who's already upset).

hmmm okay. Leonard could have time it better but Penny is the one who ask for 100% honesty from him. Still doesn't mean Leonard have to pay everything for Penny while she is off trying to become an actress. Leonard will do it because he loves her and wants Penny happy, imo.

I still say Penny wants to do it one her own for a while and will ask for help when she needs it.

I still like the idea of Penny moving in with Leonard and Sheldon - makings of some good comedy.  I'm not sure what explanation they'd come up with for that to happen, but it feels like it would have more comedic potential than having Leonard move in with Penny.

Don't you think Sheldon is in L/P relationship too much already? Where will L/P go when they are tired or want privacy from Sheldon? That is one thing I loved about Season Six L/P could be alone and talk without interruption from Sheldon.

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Penny needs to do this on her own, and I hope she does. The idea of her becoming financially dependent on Leonard makes me cringe. The talk that he should because of what he said last episode is exactly why he shouldn't; he's not supportive of it, so why on earth would she ask him for help? It seems she needs to prove herself to Leonard, who often treats her as though she's incapable (intentional or not). 

Edited by DaisyJane

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Penny needs to do this on her own, that's all.

But why? If she succeeds with Leonard's help, it benefits them both, unless you want her to dump him if she becomes famous. If she fails, he gave her a chance by his support, she had her chance, he didn't take it away from her, by marrying her. They both win and both get what they want, happiness. They are suppose to be a team, team players help each other. Someone that loves you and helps you doesn't own you, if you both really love each other, it shouldn't matter. Unless you think Kaley owns Ryan, because he now lives in HER house and has taken other things using HER money.

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hmmm okay. Leonard could have time it better but Penny is the one who ask for 100% honesty from him. Still doesn't mean Leonard have to pay everything for Penny while she is off trying to become an actress. Leonard will do it because he loves her and wants Penny happy, imo.

Of course, and he will see it as an opportunity to show her just how much he supports her.

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Of course, and he will see it as an opportunity to show her just how much he supports her.

So you are saying Leonard should do it because of what he said in 7.12?

eta: or maybe I reading your post wrong.

Edited by ArmyGirl

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Penny needs to do this on her own, and I hope she does. The idea of her becoming financially dependent on Leonard makes me cringe.

If that was it's only purpose I would agree with you. But if it's a means to and end, her getting her acting career going, I don't see why it should be a problem.

 

The talk that he should because of what he said last episode is exactly why he shouldn't; he's not supportive of it, so why on earth would she ask him for help?

Being realistic about her chances is not the same as not being supportive. His attempts at cheering her up in the guys apartment(and even his attempt for the Star Wars audition is supportive) I would also argue that his comments about her quitting are an effort to let her keep her independence. I'm quite sure that Leonard is looking down the road, figuring her chances and thinking what is she going to do if she doesn't get any parts.

 

It seems she needs to prove herself to Leonard, who often treats her as though she's incapable (intentional or not).

I won't disagree here. She's been trying to prove herself to him since 1.17. She needs to learn that Leonard doesn't care if she proves herself. Her feeling that she's not good enough for Leonard isn't shared by Leonard. Leonard has to learn he can't fix everything.

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So you are saying Leonard should do it because of what he said in 7.12?eta: or maybe I reading your post wrong.

No he will do it because he loves her and it makes him feel good to make her happy. This is something she wants so bad, so he is going to be there for her, to support her and if it involves her living with him, he will do it.

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So you are saying Leonard should do it because of what he said in 7.12?

eta: or maybe I reading your post wrong.

No, what I'm saying is that the character of Leonard is supportive of Penny being an actor. He's realistic about it, but he does support her. Financially supporting her, in his mind, would be a way to show that support to her. It's not a question of whether or not he should or he shouldn't or because of what he's said. It's in the character to see something like that as an opportunity to prove that he does support her, in her dream.

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No, what I'm saying is that the character of Leonard is supportive of Penny being an actor. He's realistic about it, but he does support her. Financially supporting her, in his mind, would be a way to show that support to her. It's not a question of whether or not he should or he shouldn't or because of what he's said. It's in the character to see something like that as an opportunity to prove that he does support her, in her dream.

Okay, I got you and totally agree with you about Leonard.

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They love each other, they support each other on bad and good moments; and nothing wrong in Leonard supporting Penny financially, as she follows her dream of becoming a movie or tv star, they are a couple after all.  Finances are of one the many components of a relationship between two people, and L/P are no exception to that.  How would Penny react if Leonard lost his job at the university, I m sure she would console him and help her man in anyway she could.

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I do not get why it is so important for Penny to handle this full court press on acting alone and totally independent of Leonard. I keep seeing posts that state she needs to be independent. If Penny and Leonard were married, which is hopefully where this is going, then both Leonard and Penny are giving up their independence, in this regard. I've never been married, but my understanding is that the main finances are pooled, decisions are made together, and each support the other in their careers. The only reason Leonard and Penny aren't doing this now is because of her commitment issues. Wouldn't it be better for them to work together as a married couple would, develop a plan, and have Penny secure in the knowledge that she doesn't have to worry about money. As things stand now, unless she has remarkable success, she will have to come to Leonard, having failed to support herself, for money. I suspect that this would be quite damaging to her self-esteem, which is not very high already.

I mention this because many recent posts, and a number in the past, have repeatedly emphasized Penny's need to both be independent and to improve her self esteem. Right now, she is logically set up to lose both.

Edited by hamerman55
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Maybe the point of this setup is to put Penny in a position where she fails, and Leonard is able to finally get across to her that he loves her for who she is. He will accept her as a waitress, or an Oscar winning actress. It makes no difference to him.

Edited by hamerman55
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I do not get why it is so important for Penny to handle this full court press on acting alone and totally independent of Leonard. I keep seeing posts that state she needs to be independent. If Penny and Leonard were married, which is hopefully where this is going, then both Leonard and Penny are giving up their independence, in this regard. I've never been married, but my understanding is that the main finances are pooled, decisions are made together, and each support the other in their careers. The only reason Leonard and Penny aren't doing this now is because of her commitment issues. Wouldn't it be better for them to work together as a married couple would, develop a plan, and have Penny secure in the knowledge that she doesn't have to worry about money. As things stand now, unless she has remarkable success, she will have to come to Leonard, having failed to support herself, for money. I suspect that this would be quite damaging to her self-esteem, which is not very high already.

I mention this because many recent posts, and a number in the past, have repeatedly emphasized Penny's need to both be independent and to improve her self esteem. Right now, she is logically set up to lose both.

 

No I think this first post is right.  If they do like you say about it, it should help Penny with her commitment issues.  Seeing how two people who are devoted to each other and make each other happy, like helping her obtain her goals, should only be good for their relationship.  Her saying she is scared about marriage, because it is forever, could be changed to she wants and needs this man in her life forever, because with him she can do anything she wants and be happy.  You are right they need to plan and he needs to take away her money problems, so she can concentrate on her acting career, she may not make it or maybe make it a little, but she will have no regrets because she was able to give it her best shot because of him, because even though he doesn't know if she will get her break, he believes in her and is willing to make it possible for her to try.

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The question was where did she get the money for the booze.   I don't think he bought that particular bottle of wine,  for that particular occasion or reason.  But both Leonard and Penny drink wine in her apartment when they are together.  It's not beyond reason, and quite likely that Leonard is buying their wine supply, if she is short of money.   If Leonard was buying wine for them, then Penny was drinking wine that Leonard bought.   

What are you using for proof? There has never been any indication--- at any point--- that L. has brought  wine to Penny's apartment.

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What are you using for proof? There has never been any indication--- at any point--- that L. has brought  wine to Penny's apartment.

There was wine in the apartment, how did it get there? I suppose you don't believe that he's ever brought food into the apartment either, since there has never been any indication. Which means, I guess, that Penny's been living on that one bag of groceries she bought in the second episode this year, since there has been no indication that any other food has been brought into the apartment(I take that back, Pizza was delivered) again in the second episode). There hasn't been an indication of a lot of things happening, that doesn't mean those things didn't happen.

OK, lets try it this way. She was shown drinking wine. So the question becomes where did it come from? There are four possibilities:

1) She bought it

2) Someone else bought it for her.

3) She stole it

4) Someone else stole it and gave it to her(this also covers someone giving bottles away).

Let's look at those:

1) She bought it. The premise I was originally answering was "Where did Penny get the wine if she didn't even have money to buy a present for Leonrd." Since she doesn't have the money to buy the wine (remember, that is the premise), she couldn't have bought it.

2) Someone else bought it. I suppose it could have been one of the people that she works with or she could have had one of the gang buy it (but there is no indication of that either, is there?). But, it bas been shown that both Penny and Leonard drink wine in her apartment. If Leonard and Penny are both drinking the wine together in the apartment, and she doesn't have the money to buy it. Who is the most likely to have bought wine they are both drinking? I'll say Leonard, (feel free to provide someone else). He could have bought several bottles and had them at the apartment, and that's where that bottle that Penny was drinking came from.

3 and 4) I think these are simply too ridiculous to consider.

I'll be more than happy to listen to your explanation of where the wine that Penny and Leonard drink in her apartment comes from, if she doesn't have the money to buy it.

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Of course she bought it and bought all of it...that is why she didn't have money for  a lot of things like food and rent and a present for L. Penny concentrates on what is important to her and the wine seems to be very important.

 

Seeing how much she drinks, L. would have to be an idiot to  supply it. He should be  seeing  her drinking as a problem-- maybe a panacea for her unhappiness with her life...you know the one where she has nothing after 10 years in LA.

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Please oh please let us not start the Penny is an alcoholic discussion again.

 

I think that if Penny doesn't buy her own food and drink and Leonard doesn't supply it either that it must be a hobbit...

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Please oh please let us not start the Penny is an alcoholic discussion again.

 

Some people will use any excuse to bring up a stupid argument. It's the one constant of the human race. :)

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If we are assuming Penny can't buy her own booze, then the most logical explanation is that the girls bring it over for girls night and leave it there.

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Of course she bought it and bought all of it...that is why she didn't have money for  a lot of things like food and rent and a present for L. Penny concentrates on what is important to her and the wine seems to be very important.

 

Seeing how much she drinks, L. would have to be an idiot to  supply it. He should be  seeing  her drinking as a problem-- maybe a panacea for her unhappiness with her life...you know the one where she has nothing after 10 years in LA.

Three things, one, I'll note you didn't answer my question, according to the premise. Two, you demanded proof from me as to when Leonard brought in the wine, but provided no evidence that Penny brought it in, other than your opinion that because she has no money, she must have spent it one wine, ignoring all the other possibilities.

Finally, if you want to bash Penny, Leonard or the relationship, please don't do it here. This thread, among others, has special rules for posting about the two characters or their relationship. If you don't like something about the relationship, you can go the the thread to discuss what you think are the negative aspects of the relationship.

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