Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Nogravitasatall]

The ep I saw did little to peturb Leonard and Penny but they continue Penny's quest for meaning in her life. I think its going to be a slow voyage of discovery. The languid drips of joy will likely continue, at much the same rate as the famous pitch drip experiments (google them).

It literally hurts me to write this, but I think the Sheldon/Amy situation is on the boil and our couple are in the slow cooker, not even on the top of the stove.

PS. Expect only casual visits from me for some time.

best wishes to all,

[SodidIwin?]

The ep I saw did little to peturb Leonard and Penny but they continue Penny's quest for meaning in her life. I think its going to be a slow voyage of discovery. The languid drips of joy will likely continue, at much the same rate as the famous pitch drip experiments (google them).

It literally hurts me to write this, but I think the Sheldon/Amy situation is on the boil and our couple are in the slow cooker, not even on the top of the stove.

PS. Expect only casual visits from me for some time.

best wishes to all,

I have to agree with you that currently Lenny will be in the slower cooker for longer then us Lenny fans will like.

 

I truly hope you had a great time here in the states and have a safe trip!

[ArmyGirl]

The ep I saw did little to peturb Leonard and Penny but they continue Penny's quest for meaning in her life. I think its going to be a slow voyage of discovery. The languid drips of joy will likely continue, at much the same rate as the famous pitch drip experiments (google them).

It literally hurts me to write this, but I think the Sheldon/Amy situation is on the boil and our couple are in the slow cooker, not even on the top of the stove.

PS. Expect only casual visits from me for some time.

best wishes to all,

 

I agree with you Norgravitasatall that Leonard and Penny is a plane that has been in a holding pattern(seems like forever) that has ran out of gas and I see nothing to make me think things will change anytime soon or that we will get anything other than a bumpy landing with some shaken up fans/viewers that are either upset or have a serious case of apathy .  

 

I guess things wouldn't be so bad if the writers would write others storylines for both Leonard and Penny (I do think they are finally giving Penny an arc) that didn't center around them being in relationship with each other, especially Leonard.  I mean that is all Leonard has on this show, other than being a caretaker for Sheldon it's about getting with Penny and now that they are a "couple" there is no real movement for this couple as it looks like all the focus will be on Shamy which some really need to be, but it shouldn't be an all or nothing situation for Leonard and Penny.  Why can't there be real movement for both couples.  

 

The writers could have done so much with the North Sea storyline but it was all about P/S bonding and never about Leonard really and now Leonard is stuck in the middle of nowhere and getting nowhere fast if you ask me.

 

 

eta:  I hope you had a great time attending the live show and came away some awesome memories that you can share with us sometime.

Edited January 22, 2014 by ArmyGirl

[SodidIwin?]

I feel there is something big happening with Lenny by the end of the year. MJ and someone from the other forum are suppose to be there. I think I read MJ is #7 in line

I really hope you are correct about L/P because at the moment I'm just not seeing the movement. Hopefully they are setting us up for a nice surprise!

[Tensor]

I'd agree with you Tensor except Penny is a girlfriend who has trouble acknowledging commitment. Leonard wants to be the boyfriend not the father figure or the rich uncle/brother.  If he pays for everything before she has made some verbal commitment than he just looks like a sugar-daddy.

 

Well, given her well known commitment issues, moving in together would be a commitment, wouldn't it?  Accepting money from Leonard and him giving her money so she can maintain a separate apartment would look more like him being the rich uncle/brother than if they moved in together.  

 

On a separate issue, as for the movement in their relationship right now, remember it was four episodes (and a month and a half) before they did anything to move on from the I love you.  Hell, it was two episodes, and into the third  before they even had a scene together, by themselves.    We just had two pretty big episodes out of them, it will take a bit before they get back to them 

[SodidIwin?]

Well, given her well known commitment issues, moving in together would be a commitment, wouldn't it?  Accepting money from Leonard and him giving her money so she can maintain a separate apartment would look more like him being the rich uncle/brother than if they moved in together.  

 

On a separate issue, as for the movement in their relationship right now, remember it was four episodes (and a month and a half) before they did anything to move on from the I love you.  Hell, it was two episodes, and into the third  before they even had a scene together, by themselves.    We just had two pretty big episodes out of them, it will take a bit before they get back to them

Well Tensor, I am going to go long with your view of where the current L/P relationship is. I will just be patient and see how the balance of the season plays out. Hopefully it will be a promising second half of the season. I just put my rose colored glasses on and am raring to go! :)

[BangerMain]

 

I think that this storyline gives them some stuff to work with for Penny other than just being Leonard's girlfriend and a CCF waitress and talking about acting in passing.  They can give her her own stories and her own struggles and her own triumphs that have nothing to do with hopping in the sack with Leonard or killing spiders for the guys or whatever.

 

We've seen the guys have professional victories and struggles, seen them deal with their parents, seen them struggle with their social lives, but with Penny we've seen only a bit of that.  She's often the foil against which the guys' social backwardness is contrasted, and we've seen some of her own struggles with self-esteem and insecurity, but we haven't seen very much at all of her career or her talent or professional struggles.

 

I'd kind of like to see her dealing with some a$$ onset, even if it's just doing a commercial.  Some handsy director or fellow actor, or having to get doused with suds for a laundry detergent commercial or whatever--just as we've seen the guys struggle with the likes of Leslie Winkle or Kripke or having to do fundraiser gladhanding.

 

I think this could be a great chance to see more of Penny's life outside of the CCF and the apartment building.

 

The only problem with the "Penny in show business" story line is Steve Molaro has said they don't want to go there for a number of reasons. Not just the cost of sets and other actors but Molaro has said that's not what the Big Bang Theory is about. Penny, the actress, would be separate "B" stories that do not involve the rest of the cast. As a waitress at the CCF they could involve her with the rest of the cast with no problem. The only time we have seen stories involving Penny's acting ability is when she is teaching Sheldon or when the gang goes to (or tries to avoid) her performances. The writers avoid any story that does not involve the science, geek or the relationship aspects of the scientists lives. By that reckoning, Penny is part of the relationship portion of Leonard's life.

Edited January 22, 2014 by BangerMain

[Tensor]

Well Tensor, I am going to go long with your view of where the current L/P relationship is. I will just be patient and see how the balance of the season plays out. Hopefully it will be a promising second half of the season. I just put my rose colored glasses on and am raring to go! :)

It's fun to speculate, but I remember how upset a lot of people were early last year. Go back and look at how last year went with Lenny up to "Egg Salad". Bad, bad, kinda good, nothing, good, kinda good, nothing, bad to great, nothing, nothing, nothing, good. And after the I love you, how intense the speculation was on what was going to happen (I'm not excepting myself here, I could be as bad as anyone). Yes things seem to have gone backward, but it's the same thing that happened early last year. How could Penny be unsure and want to break up with him if she was so miserable without him for two years and she stuck it out after he proposed in bed? Or how about Penny's comment to Amy that "He reeeeeallly tries"? How pissed were people about that? The comments this year are there for the same reason those comments were there last year, humor.

They have to extend things, so they have to come up with things that, while not moving them along, stalls them without causing them to break up. In a way, it's the opposite to the problem they have with Sheldon and Amy. Those two are moving so slow, it's going to take till the tenth year to get them anywhere close to coitus. Could they do it better to give us a better Lenny experience. We think so. But, we don't write the show and there are others beside us out there. I get fresh perspective every night it's on from my wife and daughter. I'm looking at the show through my Lenny glasses and they are just laughing at the different things on the show.

[bigbangsheldon]

You people are just so selfish and you are literally objectifying Penny so hard. You literally want her to fail because then she's have to live with Leonard and that's just sick. Who wants that in a relationship?

You people seem to forget that Penny is a human being in her own right, and she has her own career dreams and she has her own aspirations that don't include Leonard. Sure, things haven't worked out for her very well but she still has them and now she is taking a further risk to get them which is brave, and she explained it might be the only way she can succeed. But of course it's just a way to move Lenny forward, it's not like Penny is a lead on the show and has her own goals. Bernadette doesn't work with any if the guys or girls and we still got to see her work, plus Amy.

But I really hope that this risk isn't some plot to get her to marry and live with Leonard because I just think that's pathetic, and I think if you think otherwise you can't really be a Lenny shipper because you don't care about Penny's dreams and what Penny wants from herself which is also very important in the LP relationship, all you people seem to care about is Leonard and if the relationship is OK.

And I just don't see how you (most of you) can even ship Leonard and Penny when all you care about is Leonard, seriously literally none of you give two flying fucks about Penny's feelings and her goals that don't include Leonard. I don't even see how that's possible.

Stop treating Penny like she's some doll, who just gives Leonard proposals and moves in just because he wants to and because she's failing because that's just pathetic and I can't imagine a worse way for them to move in together.

Why would you rather have one half of your ship failing miserably than have them succeed and then they can move and be happy together? What's the point in LP moving in an getting engaged when Penny is just going to be miserable?

You people don't ship Lenny, you just Mary Sue Leonard.

/

I think I just said the same thing twelve times over, but I think I made my point.

[Guest]

What's going on?

[3ku11]

Reading these comments their seems to be a biast towards Leonard's happiness and not Penny's, it seems to be Leonard centric and how it affects him and the outcome of that. What about Penny? Everyone seems to think she has to all the heavy lifting in their relationship, and everything she does from now on is dependant on Leonard. People need to rememeber the whole point of Penny's character from the begginning, she came across as a street smart self-independent person, who is not co-dependent on no one. So regardless if she becomes a big movie star, or finds a job to support her self, it well be a decision made on her own with no support from Leonard, Sheldon or no one for that matter. I get Penny has made mistakes in the past, and I get people like to emphaize her lack of committment to Leonard, but I have never seen that. People forget in early season 3, she was in her twenties had no family, was just coming to the realization that her movie career was not going to happen, she was just begginning to realize her identity is not what it was, her self actulization was just starting to be de-constructed. She was re-evaulating her very core, and being 23 that is scary. Even go back to the break up scene, when you look at the scene she is the only female in that scene, I beleive Amy and Bernadette have been instrumental in where Lenny is today. So everyone who gives Shamy grief, or complaining that Lenny are not getting centric storylines like Shamy. Remember if Amy was never introduced, and she never met Sheldon then Amy and Bernadette would of never been a good source network for Penny, and the advice they gave her was instrumental in Penny actually working on her relationship with Leonard. Besides I am not sure why people have come to the conclusion that Lenny are in a rut, or in a moving pattern. What else to people want lol I mean Penny has prooven she loves Leonard, they have been solid for nearly four years now, its a relationship its not boring or exciting, its just a relationship. Its pointless comparing a conventional relationship like Lenny to a unconventional relationship like Shamy, their are way too many differences and variables in the respective relationships. I have a feeling people see Penny as the other half to the Lenny relationship, she is one of the main characters she has always had way more to offer then just a part.

[gsxdoug]

You people

Please don't generalize. There are a number of fairly prolific posters in this thread who route for both characters equally.

[bigbangsheldon]

Please don't generalize. There are a number of fairly prolific posters in this thread who route for both characters equally.

I did write it again with you (most of you) I am very sorry. I mean we all get generalised on this forum don't we? I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as in every Lenny fan. there is just a lot..

[phantagrae]

The only problem with the "Penny in show business" story line is Steve Molaro has said they don't want to go there for a number of reasons. Not just the cost of sets and other actors but Molaro has said that's not what the Big Bang Theory is about. Penny, the actress, would be separate "B" stories that do not involve the rest of the cast. As a waitress at the CCF they could involve her with the rest of the cast with no problem. The only time we have seen stories involving Penny's acting ability is when she is teaching Sheldon or when the gang goes to (or tries to avoid) her performances. The writers avoid any story that does not involve the science, geek or the relationship aspects of the scientists lives. By that reckoning, Penny is part of the relationship portion of Leonard's life.

 

Again, I think you're clinging too hard to one aspect of the issue.

First of all, just because it was said once doesn't mean that they don't have new ideas for Penny, especially if the show ends up going another 3 seasons as seems to be the case.  And I don't think it will take the show too far out of its premise to give Penny a scene or an episode here or there sketching out what's going on in her life, as they develop her character beyond the pretty blond girlfriend.

 

When they talked about not wanting to build sets, they were talking about if they were to give Penny a steady acting job, like if she were to get a role on a TV show.  In that case, she'd have to have a set like the CCF where she would be on a regular basis as they showed her working.  But I'm not talking about a steady gig on a show.  I'm talking about random gigs that she gets here and there.

In that case, they wouldn't have to build any more sets than they would ordinarily with things like sending the guys to a symposium or any other location apart from the regular ones.  And if they do away with the CCF set, they've got room to work with other things as suits the stories.

 

There's nothing that says they can't give Penny a storyline, whether or not it's the A or the B plot or whatever.  They're not stuck in a box.  There's no real rule about that.  Penny is one of the 3 main characters.  They have even given episode arcs and A plot lines to Howard or Raj.  Penny's character is one of the Big Three and can easily be given her own arc or A plot or whatever.  It's their story to tell and they can change their minds about how they're going to tell it.  There's no law that says they can't focus on her for an episode or two here and there.

 

As for hiring actors--they do that all the frickin' time.  And it's not as if TBBT is on some kind of shoestring budget.  They build spaceship sets, they get famous people on the show, they do all kinds of things.  I don't think either CBS or WB is going to begrudge their #1 Comedy the cost of a handful of guest actors, especially if they're just run of the mill people (like Penny, but in real life!) who come in and have a bit part as other actors she works with on occasion.

 

You act as if TPTB have somehow signed a contract that says that they can't write this or that kind of episode or give the Penny character this or that kind of storyline.  They're free to adapt and change their ideas for stories as it suits them and as they see fit for the continued growth of the characters.  Many things have changed over the years in regard to the growth of all the characters.  Who would have predicted that Howard would get married and stop trying to pick up random women with cheesy come-on lines?  Now that he's happily married, the kinds of stories they come up with for him are completel different than the stuff they were coming up with before.

Same holds true for Raj and Sheldon and even Leonard, so why can it not be true for Penny?

 

The show is about ALL of the characters and how they're progressing through life and how their own particular strengths and weaknesses help them or get in their way, and for Penny that's also true.  She is more than just the pretty girl across the hall, more than just Leonard's "hot girlfriend".  So why not explore her character a little bit and see where they can go with her?

I don't think they're going to say, "Oh, no!  We can only tell stories about Penny if they have to do with the guys."

[SodidIwin?]

Reading these comments their seems to be a biast towards Leonard's happiness and not Penny's, it seems to be Leonard centric and how it affects him and the outcome of that. What about Penny? Everyone seems to think she has to all the heavy lifting in their relationship, and everything she does from now on is dependant on Leonard. People need to rememeber the whole point of Penny's character from the begginning, she came across as a street smart self-independent person, who is not co-dependent on no one. So regardless if she becomes a big movie star, or finds a job to support her self, it well be a decision made on her own with no support from Leonard, Sheldon or no one for that matter. I get Penny has made mistakes in the past, and I get people like to emphaize her lack of committment to Leonard, but I have never seen that. People forget in early season 3, she was in her twenties had no family, was just coming to the realization that her movie career was not going to happen, she was just begginning to realize her identity is not what it was, her self actulization was just starting to be de-constructed. She was re-evaulating her very core, and being 23 that is scary. Even go back to the break up scene, when you look at the scene she is the only female in that scene, I beleive Amy and Bernadette have been instrumental in where Lenny is today. So everyone who gives Shamy grief, or complaining that Lenny are not getting centric storylines like Shamy. Remember if Amy was never introduced, and she never met Sheldon then Amy and Bernadette would of never been a good source network for Penny, and the advice they gave her was instrumental in Penny actually working on her relationship with Leonard. Besides I am not sure why people have come to the conclusion that Lenny are in a rut, or in a moving pattern. What else to people want lol I mean Penny has prooven she loves Leonard, they have been solid for nearly four years now, its a relationship its not boring or exciting, its just a relationship. Its pointless comparing a conventional relationship like Lenny to a unconventional relationship like Shamy, their are way too many differences and variables in the respective relationships. I have a feeling people see Penny as the other half to the Lenny relationship, she is one of the main characters she has always had way more to offer then just a part.

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from painting with such a large brush. I for one have from the moment Penny quit her job at TCF that I highly doubt the writers will let her fail and make her hit rock bottom. However, since you have brought it up, personally I can understand why some posters here feel that Penny will indeed fail and have to fall back on Leonard. But it isn’t their fault for this feeling. There is no one to blame but the writers themselves. After 6-1/2 years of purely second hand comments here and there about her acting career and TPTB coming right out and saying that they don’t intend her to succeed as an actor what else would some of the Lenny posters feel? The TPTB pointed the audience in that direction. It isn’t some terrible hatred for Penny vs. some overwhelming feeling of protection for Leonard.

 

Having said that I still think Penny will in fact have some type of modest success in following her dream. 

[BangerMain]

You people are just so selfish and you are literally objectifying Penny so hard. You literally want her to fail because then she's have to live with Leonard and that's just sick. Who wants that in a relationship?

You people seem to forget that Penny is a human being in her own right, and she has her own career dreams and she has her own aspirations that don't include Leonard. Sure, things haven't worked out for her very well but she still has them and now she is taking a further risk to get them which is brave, and she explained it might be the only way she can succeed. But of course it's just a way to move Lenny forward, it's not like Penny is a lead on the show and has her own goals. Bernadette doesn't work with any if the guys or girls and we still got to see her work, plus Amy.

But I really hope that this risk isn't some plot to get her to marry and live with Leonard because I just think that's pathetic, and I think if you think otherwise you can't really be a Lenny shipper because you don't care about Penny's dreams and what Penny wants from herself which is also very important in the LP relationship, all you people seem to care about is Leonard and if the relationship is OK.

And I just don't see how you (most of you) can even ship Leonard and Penny when all you care about is Leonard, seriously literally none of you give two flying fucks about Penny's feelings and her goals that don't include Leonard. I don't even see how that's possible.

Stop treating Penny like she's some doll, who just gives Leonard proposals and moves in just because he wants to and because she's failing because that's just pathetic and I can't imagine a worse way for them to move in together.

Why would you rather have one half of your ship failing miserably than have them succeed and then they can move and be happy together? What's the point in LP moving in an getting engaged when Penny is just going to be miserable?

You people don't ship Lenny, you just Mary Sue Leonard.

/

I think I just said the same thing twelve times over, but I think I made my point.

OK.

 

Remember everything that happens to L/P are controlled by a group of writers in Southern California. The opinions expressed on this forums effects them not in the least. If everyone on this board suddenly started to think cool thoughts about Penny's self actualization, the writers could have her as a complete failure by the end of the season. That's how much power we have.

[phantagrae]

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from painting with such a large brush. I for one have from the moment Penny quit her job at TCF that I highly doubt the writers will let her fail and make her hit rock bottom. However, since you have brought it up, personally I can understand why some posters here feel that Penny will indeed fail and have to fall back on Leonard. But it isn’t their fault for this feeling. There is no one to blame but the writers themselves. After 6-1/2 years of purely second hand comments here and there about her acting career and TPTB coming right out and saying that they don’t intend her to succeed as an actor what else would some of the Lenny posters feel? The TPTB pointed the audience in that direction. It isn’t some terrible hatred for Penny vs. some overwhelming feeling of protection for Leonard.

 

Having said that I still think Penny will in fact have some type of modest success in following her dream. 

 

I think the problem is the term "succeed as an actor" and how people are interpreting that.  Yeah, when Penny asked Leonard that question, she included imagining herself winning awards, etc.  And I agree that that's not where they're going to take her character.  To have her become a big star would put her outside of the world they all live in.  While the guys and Bernie and Amy are all very intelligent, accomplished people in their field, none of them is going to win the Nobel during the course of the show.  Partly because that would be unrealistic (they'd have to make up some fake discovery, which they don't do with the science on this show), and partly because it's not realistic for anyone their age in their particular fields--and especially Sheldon as a theorist--to win a Nobel.  Whatever they propose would have to be proven, etc., and I don't think the writers want to go down that path.

 

So, all of them are probably going to continue to have ups and downs in their academic careers--gaining accolades for some things, misfiring on others.  So are they successful?   Yes.  They're just not world-famous or winning Nobel prizes.

 

The same can be true for Penny.  She can get to the point where she has some positive reputation as a hard worker or an actress who's wiling to get in there and do whatever the job asks for (within reason!) or whatever.  She can have success in doing funny character roles, or something along those lines, without becoming a "star".

 

Success takes on many different aspects.

[SodidIwin?]

My apologies! My post #5421 was suppose to quote Bigbangsheldon not 3ku11. Sorry!

[bigbangsheldon]

OK, I'm not trying to generalise the Lenny's OK? People generalize the Shamy fans all the time. We know what I meant.

[ArmyGirl]

Wow ---- for a minute I thought I was in the wrong thread.  lol

[bigbangsheldon]

Wow ---- for a minute I thought I was in the wrong thread. lol

Why? This is the Leonard and PENNY thread.

[SodidIwin?]

It's fun to speculate, but I remember how upset a lot of people were early last year. Go back and look at how last year went with Lenny up to "Egg Salad". Bad, bad, kinda good, nothing, good, kinda good, nothing, bad to great, nothing, nothing, nothing, good. And after the I love you, how intense the speculation was on what was going to happen (I'm not excepting myself here, I could be as bad as anyone). Yes things seem to have gone backward, but it's the same thing that happened early last year. How could Penny be unsure and want to break up with him if she was so miserable without him for two years and she stuck it out after he proposed in bed? Or how about Penny's comment to Amy that "He reeeeeallly tries"? How pissed were people about that? The comments this year are there for the same reason those comments were there last year, humor.

They have to extend things, so they have to come up with things that, while not moving them along, stalls them without causing them to break up. In a way, it's the opposite to the problem they have with Sheldon and Amy. Those two are moving so slow, it's going to take till the tenth year to get them anywhere close to coitus. Could they do it better to give us a better Lenny experience. We think so. But, we don't write the show and there are others beside us out there. I get fresh perspective every night it's on from my wife and daughter. I'm looking at the show through my Lenny glasses and they are just laughing at the different things on the show.

Tensor, you are absolutely correct. It's simply my personal timeline is in direct conflict with the writers timeline for a real proposal for Lenny. When I see them stretching them out once again it just brings back bad memories of seasons gone by. Do I think they will break them up? No. But I do want a real proposal. I'll just have to sit patiently and let the story unfold...no mater how painfully slow the writers want it to be!

[Guest]

[Chrismo]

I did write it again with you (most of you) I am very sorry. I mean we all get generalised on this forum don't we? I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as in every Lenny fan. there is just a lot..

Just like their were a lot of Shamy fans that needed panty changes after last weeks taping?

[3ku11]

My apologies! My post #5421 was suppose to quote Bigbangsheldon not 3ku11. Sorry!

All Good haha.