Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[BangerMain]

The show is about ALL of the characters and how they're progressing through life and how their own particular strengths and weaknesses help them or get in their way, and for Penny that's also true.  She is more than just the pretty girl across the hall, more than just Leonard's "hot girlfriend".  So why not explore her character a little bit and see where they can go with her?

I don't think they're going to say, "Oh, no!  We can only tell stories about Penny if they have to do with the guys."

 

As I said, the big problem is not about sets and other actors as much as Penny as a working actress story lines would not include the other cast members. The show has 20 minutes to tell all the plots and to give all the characters a slice of that time. Even when Howard was in space on that elaborate ISS set, we saw him interacting with Bernadette at work and his mother at home. Seldom have they had one character even have a scene with only outside actors. You can almost remember all those times since it is so rare.  I'm trying to remember a CCF scene where Penny was not interacting with another of the shows characters. Penny in acting world means screen time for her will be taken from the time of the other characters since she will not be sharing those minutes.

 

It's not that the producers can't tell the Penny's progress story, it's what would motivate them to overcome some pretty serious obstacles to do it.  You can see why they would say, why bother? Is it going to increase the ratings? Will they get more money from syndication? The sad fact is they have easier or should I say lazier ways to take the story.

Edited January 22, 2014 by BangerMain

[phantagrae]

Just like their were a lot of Shamy fans that needed panty changes after last weeks taping?

 

Nobody needed to change their panties--just because Pollard said it didn't mean it was true.

 

But at least were were enjoying ourselves.

 

I don't want to generalize, but no matter what happens between Leonard and Penny, all I seem to see here is negativity--either Penny is somehow at fault or Leonard is somehow at fault or everybody starts hair-pulling about the writers planning to break them up, or someone thinks that Penny's gonna hop in the sack with Raj, because, hey, the writers have done it before...

 

While I'm primarily a Shamy shipper, I actually ship all the canon pairs--and I hope Raj finally finds a worthy love interest--maybe Yvette the Vet will be the one--and I'm just baffled that there always seems to be someone who is predicting doom and gloom and disaster, or ragging on one or the other of the Lenny pair.

Why?

 

There's so much in this pairing to enjoy and they've made such emotional progress and they're the main couple of the show.  Isn't that something to be happy about?

[3ku11]

Can I just say when did watching this show become so relationship focused, like you need to qualify or justify your ship. Their was a time when not even Lenny were dating, I think its great to ship who ever you want and you have every right, whether that means why you ship a couple or who you ship But its also good too remember TBBT was never a relationship driven show, its not a rom com at the end of the day its a pure comedy. Not that I am too generalizing any cannon ships here or even non-cannon, but theirs a tone at the moment that seems to pointing in that direction, like with Shenny for instance I Think it is the most riduclous ship of two characters in the history of tv, but I am not going to generalize someone's views based on one post, it has to be taken in context. In reality Leonard and Penny are dating, Penny is friends with Sheldon, Howard, Raj, Amy, and Bernadette. As for the present yes Penny has no job, but Leonard has always seen Penny has self independent I do not think he is expecting Penny to find a job, he's not her father he's her boyfriend thats not his job. 

Edited January 22, 2014 by 3ku11

[Tensor]

There's so much in this pairing to enjoy and they've made such emotional progress and they're the main couple of the show.  Isn't that something to be happy about?

I'm happy with it.

[gsxdoug]

I'm happy with it.

Ditto!

[phantagrae]

As I said, the big problem is not about sets and other actors as much as Penny as a working actress story lines would not include the other cast members. The show has 20 minutes to tell all the plots and to give all the characters a slice of that time. Even when Howard was in space on that elaborate ISS set, we saw him interacting with Bernadette at work and his mother at home. Seldom have they had one character even have a scene with only outside actors. You can almost remember all those times since it is so rare.  I'm trying to remember a CCF scene where Penny was not interacting with another of the shows characters. Penny in acting world means screen time for her will be taken from the time of the other characters since she will not be sharing those minutes.

 

They don't take each episode and slice it evenly between each of the characters or each of the couples.  They tell whatever story they want to tell and the other characters appear as needed, in greater or lesser quantities.

 

If they wanted to show Penny on an acting gig, they wouldn't have to take up the whole episode, even if her story was the A plot.  The story could include her discussing the gig with Leonard, maybe complaining about the job or or co-workers or whatever, then they show one or two scenes of her on set, broken up with other scenes with the rest of the gang doing whatever they're doing.  Why is that so hard to comprehend.

 

All of the characters have had stories where they're on their own talking to someone else without the rest of the gang around.  There's nothing that says that having Penny involved in a story about an acting gig would HAVE to have all the other characters involved.

We've seen plenty of scenes with just Sheldon talking to some other character, or Leonard, when he was being seduced by Mrs. Latham.  A scene showing Penny on an acting gig wouldn't have to be any longer than Leonard's scenes with Mrs. Latham, for instance.

 

I'm not talking about having her spend 15 minutes doing scenes with other actors on a TV set.  I'm talking about the normal sketches they use to outline what's going on while the rest of the story is told to the other BBT characters.  Penny is all excited about landing a gig, but she's worried about the kind of costume she has to wear, so she's talking it over with Amy and Bernie, or she has to have a love scene with some creepy guy and she and Leonard talk about it.  So maybe we get a glimpse of her in some crazy costume or with the creepy actor, like even in just a tag scene.

It wouldn't take much to show her being involved in various gigs, just like we see Bernie or Amy in their labs in scenes that may or may not involve the other BBT characters.  It's all about visual clues, etc., that help flesh out the story, without having to show 20 minutes of Penny working on a scene.

 

It's like the clip from Serial Apeist.  She talks about having made that movie and all that, and then at the very end we see a quick clip of it.  An acting gig that she gets could be treated the same way.  In that way, they can give the audience glimpses here and there (certainly not in every episode) of Penny taking every gig she can get and what she has to endure in the process without having to dwell on it for a whole episode.

And then, if they want to dwell on it a little more, maybe to make a point or whatever, they can do an episode where we see more of that scenario, for whatever reason.

[Chrismo]

Nobody needed to change their panties--just because Pollard said it didn't mean it was true.

 

But at least were were enjoying ourselves.

 

I don't want to generalize, but no matter what happens between Leonard and Penny, all I seem to see here is negativity--either Penny is somehow at fault or Leonard is somehow at fault or everybody starts hair-pulling about the writers planning to break them up, or someone thinks that Penny's gonna hop in the sack with Raj, because, hey, the writers have done it before...

 

While I'm primarily a Shamy shipper, I actually ship all the canon pairs--and I hope Raj finally finds a worthy love interest--maybe Yvette the Vet will be the one--and I'm just baffled that there always seems to be someone who is predicting doom and gloom and disaster, or ragging on one or the other of the Lenny pair.

Why?

 

There's so much in this pairing to enjoy and they've made such emotional progress and they're the main couple of the show.  Isn't that something to be happy about?

I think there is two major differences in the Shamy and Lenny threads. Generally Shamy fans are women and Lenny fans are more evenly divided( more guys probably).Secondly Lenny is more of a traditional couple that people have seen before. The Shamy is not. thus people on this thread think Lenny should be further along in their relationship than they are. last year ended well but there hasn't been much happening so people are down. On the Shamy side any glimmer of hope gets Shamy fans excited. how many people normally would get all excited about a couple just kissing on a tv show?

[phantagrae]

I think there is two major differences in the Shamy and Lenny threads. Generally Shamy fans are women and Lenny fans are more evenly divided( more guys probably).Secondly Lenny is more of a traditional couple that people have seen before. The Shamy is not. thus people on this thread think Lenny should be further along in their relationship than they are. last year ended well but there hasn't been much happening so people are down. On the Shamy side any glimmer of hope gets Shamy fans excited. how many people normally would get all excited about a couple just kissing on a tv show?

 

But maybe thinking that Leonard and Penny should be at point A or point B is what the problem is.  They are where they are because of the story that's being told.  If you're not writing the story, you don't have any say in how the story progresses.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting this or wishing for that, because that certainly goes on in the Shamy thread.  And I don't think it has to do with the gender of the fans (your sexism is showing...)

 

I think that in the Lenny thread, there's a tendency to take it all waaay too seriously and to forget that the show is a comedy and that a lot of what goes on, a lot of what is said between the characters is there to ellicit laughs.

 

The ability to shrug things off goes a long way.

Edited January 23, 2014 by phantagrae

[Chrismo]

I don't think it's sexism. There is probably studies to prove I'm right but whatever. But it's like a good football and a bad football team. The good team has higher expectations to win than the bad team does. More my point is Lenny fans are going to take things more seriously. they have been the main couple since season 1.

[3ku11]

Lenny fans are like Big Bang Theory fans, their relationship pretty much makes up the core of the show, people care about what is going to happen to them. But I think they are in a good place, just need to stop taking things so seriousley.

[Chrismo]

Lenny fans are like Big Bang Theory fans, their relationship pretty much makes up the core of the show, people care about what is going to happen to them. But I think they are in a good place, just need to stop taking things so seriousley.

I think Lenny fans need something good to talk about.

[Kasey]

I'm a Lenny fan so I want Leonard and Penny to be together.  Although I like the Leonard character more (I'm a straight girl and Johnny's hot even as Leonard), I still like Penny also.  It would be really dumb of me to not like Penny. 

 

Why would I want my favorite character to be with someone I don't like? 

 

Hello logic?

[SodidIwin?]

I don't think it's sexism. There is probably studies to prove I'm right but whatever. But it's like a good football and a bad football team. The good team has higher expectations to win than the bad team does. More my point is Lenny fans are going to take things more seriously. they have been the main couple since season 1.

I like your analogy!

[DaisyJane]

Please don't generalize. There are a number of fairly prolific posters in this thread who route for both characters equally.

 

Not many. Most around here seem eager to see Penny fail in hopes she'll become dependent on Leonard so he can fix things for her, as he apparently always has (though most of the examples given are him intruding when told not to, and usually making things worse). The idea that she could succeed has been written off as completely stupid. 

Edited January 23, 2014 by DaisyJane

[3ku11]

To me Penny is the most bravest character in the whole show, it takes guts to realize things are not going to plan and go back to collage and reevaluate her plans. She maybe starting to feel isolated again, but this is not her fault although last year we saw she can actually act, she was really good at that play. Maybe she should focus on getting Penny more broadway roles, could give her some visibility, because when it comes to the entertainment industry, its more who you know not what you know. Although the restraint in not getting Penny a role in a movie or tv show, is clearly down to the realism of Pennys character, seeing a archetypical blonde girl next door struggle as an actress and a working actress (although she has now quit her job haha) is more realistic. Something needs to change though she's at a crossroad in her life, she's still young but she is not 20 anymore, Leonard well always support her no matter what, but she needs to do this for herself, having looks is no longer the thing anymore, she needs to offer more to their relationship. So maybe getting something out of psychology maybe she could start doing some consulting work or something. First off though she needs a job clearly, maybe it was kinda dumb to quit her job but I get why she did. When it comes to a proposal though, IMO they need to be living together first before engagement very important, they are no where near ready to be married, and first they need to be living together to test the waters so to speak, Lenny forever a work in progress .

Edited January 23, 2014 by 3ku11

[Kasey]

Not many. Most around here seem eager to see Penny fail in hopes she'll become dependent on so he can fix things for her, as he apparently always has (though most of the examples given are him intruding when told not to, and usually making things worse). The idea that she could succeed has been written off as completely stupid. 

 

I don't think the idea of her becoming successful has been written off as stupid.  I think that given what Molaro has said (and he can change his mind at any given time) and the whole concept of the show just makes it implausible IMHO that she become a "star".  Now she could be a very successful working actor, but that has more to do with what she ultimately wants.

[I.H.S.F.C.]

You people are just so selfish and you are literally objectifying Penny so hard. You literally want her to fail because then she's have to live with Leonard and that's just sick. Who wants that in a relationship?

You people seem to forget that Penny is a human being in her own right, and she has her own career dreams and she has her own aspirations that don't include Leonard. Sure, things haven't worked out for her very well but she still has them and now she is taking a further risk to get them which is brave, and she explained it might be the only way she can succeed. But of course it's just a way to move Lenny forward, it's not like Penny is a lead on the show and has her own goals. Bernadette doesn't work with any if the guys or girls and we still got to see her work, plus Amy.

But I really hope that this risk isn't some plot to get her to marry and live with Leonard because I just think that's pathetic, and I think if you think otherwise you can't really be a Lenny shipper because you don't care about Penny's dreams and what Penny wants from herself which is also very important in the LP relationship, all you people seem to care about is Leonard and if the relationship is OK.

And I just don't see how you (most of you) can even ship Leonard and Penny when all you care about is Leonard, seriously literally none of you give two flying fucks about Penny's feelings and her goals that don't include Leonard. I don't even see how that's possible.

Stop treating Penny like she's some doll, who just gives Leonard proposals and moves in just because he wants to and because she's failing because that's just pathetic and I can't imagine a worse way for them to move in together.

Why would you rather have one half of your ship failing miserably than have them succeed and then they can move and be happy together? What's the point in LP moving in an getting engaged when Penny is just going to be miserable?

You people don't ship Lenny, you just Mary Sue Leonard.

/

I think I just said the same thing twelve times over, but I think I made my point.

 

This is just pure delusion at its finest and straight out of the Shenny playbook.  I'm hoping English is your second language, otherwise your reading comprehension skills need serious work.

[hamerman55]

As a Leonard AND Penny shipper, my problem right now is that Penny is the one holding things up in the relationship. We don't know why, really. Further, unlike Amy and Sheldon, they are so close to formal commitment of the relatioship, it just seems artificial that they aren't living together/married. It has nothing to do with jobs or finances. My sense is that Leonard and Penny are way past such mundane considerations. The romantic in me can't see what the holdup is, except to extend the artificial separation. As pointed out earlier, Shamy simply is moving so slowly in a traditional sense, I don't have any notions of relationship status to annoy. I just can't relate to them. Leonard and Penny I can. If I were Leoanrd, I'd want a better answer than "I have commitment issues". That is manifest. However, Leonard does not seem to be in any hurry. He hasn't one pressed the issue of moving forward, other than to roll his eyes at Penny during the finale when Bernadette called her out. In the Thanksgiving episode, the issue was clearly to get Zack disconnected from his woman. Apart from getting Penny all to himself, he didn't push for anything else. He seems to be fine. Many times I've stated my wish that they could leave them alone to enjoy their current happiness, but the writers seem possessed to bring their relationship up, and not in a good way.

Lenny's also remember that they actually did break them up. They've done terrible things to them that made no sense. Suppose we break Shamy up? Have Amy sleep with Stewart? Bernie have a fling with that basketball player? This is the sort of thing that Lenny has had to contend with, and you know the old saying - once burned, twice shy.

I suggested up thread that Penny could have a very satisfying career as a character actor, getting a couple of gigs a month, and do quite well. I can see her just as another suggested, coming home from a day's shooting, complaining about the costume, or her co-actors, and the jerk director to parts of the group. They could have her in shows with unrealistic physics the guys could snipe about. To me, there is no barrier to her having a nice career as an actress. The writers just got to let her have it. Leonard just wants her to be happy, and with him. I firmly believe, rocks and shoals aside, that Penny wants the same for Leonard. To be happy and with her. They are both smart, and will figure it out shortly.

Edited January 23, 2014 by hamerman55

[I.H.S.F.C.]

Not many. Most around here seem eager to see Penny fail in hopes she'll become dependent on so he can fix things for her, as he apparently always has (though most of the examples given are him intruding when told not to, and usually making things worse). The idea that she could succeed has been written off as completely stupid. 

 

There is literally not a single person in this thread who hopes Penny will fail.  Stop making stuff up to fit your point of view.  There are a lot of people in this thread who think the only logical conclusion of her quitting her job is financial dependence since the writers have explicitly stated Penny will not be a successful actress.  Until the writers change their mind on that, all the hope in the world for Penny's success as an actress won't amount to jack squat.

[Tensor]

Not many. Most around here seem eager to see Penny fail in hopes she'll become dependent on so he can fix things for her, as he apparently always has (though most of the examples given are him intruding when told not to, and usually making things worse). The idea that she could succeed has been written off as completely stupid.

I don't think she is going to succeed, just because that is the nature of the beast. That is not the same as wanting her to fail or thinking her whole life is a failure. I can see her get a part or two, here and there, but not enough to live and both Leonard and Penny deciding that it makes sense for them to live together, so she can be free not to worry about anything except pursuing her dream.

It's her feeling of "I have to do this" overcoming her "I'm scared to live with him." It was scary for her to quit TCF, but she did it to chase her dream. She's been scared to live with Leonard or marry him, why can't she agree with moving in together, to chase her dream? How is that becoming dependent on him?

I could turn the question around, why are so many thinking that she is a failure, if she can't become a actress who can make a living at it? It is really, really, really, frigging hard to make a living at this. Failure to make a living in this field is not the same as being a failure in life. Why not think of it as, if she can't make a living at it, she just figures out that it is something isn't going to work for her, and she can move on to something she can do?

[Nogravitasatall]

@Daisy Jane, Are you close, so I can drive over and argue? I have a day till my flight.

Seriously, i personally don't fathom why employment status, cashflow and net worth get factored in by members, because the discrepancy in all of these things was evident at the off and are unlikely to be resolved, except by magic. Just for the record, I wish that they would disregard these issues, but then they have no show.

I don't want Penny to fail at all and I don't want to compel her to commit. And I think the nine minutes sex gag is showing that they are committed and secure but not completely harmonised for this stage of their relationship. I think they will never be cruising, because its a sitcom.

But there were some clues in the ep I SAW (heh heh). Her journey will be about personal growth - and its all going to take a long time and will wander all over the map. (I think Leonard will at some point be more of a dick about things, but they will get over it)

Its just that the timeframe is soooooo long now. I'm tempted to wait until 2017 and buy the boxed set then to find out what happened.

[gsxdoug]

But there were some clues in the ep I SAW (heh heh).

I assume you're referring to the episode they just taped. Still waiting  (patiently) for Roxanne's report.

Edited January 23, 2014 by gsxdoug

[DaisyJane]

This is just pure delusion at its finest and straight out of the Shenny playbook.  I'm hoping English is your second language, otherwise your reading comprehension skills need serious work.

 

Chloe, the ultimate Shamy fan, is using the Shenny playbook? And I'm the delusional one? There are posts saying that they want this storyline to make Penny financially dependent on Leonard because waking up in his arms (which she's been doing almost every night for the past two years) will compel her to get past her commitment issues and marry Leonard. 

 

How is that becoming dependent on him?

 

How is relying upon another person for all your basic living needs not being dependent on someone? That's practically the definition of dependency. 

Edited January 23, 2014 by DaisyJane

[vasu]

@Nogra..

 

Were there any hints about the real question here...

 

How is Penny going to pay her bills?

[Tensor]

How is relying upon another person for all your basic living needs not being dependent on someone? That's practically the definition of dependency.

If she was forced to live with him and had no other choice, I could see it being considered dependent. But, choosing to live with Leonard, whom she says she loves, while she tries to become an actress able to make a living at it, would appear to me to as Leonard being supportive and making an investment in their future. Or are you suggesting she wouldn't do anything in their apartment and have Leonard do all that also.