Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[DaisyJane]

After Sheldon interrupted the conversation, I got the feeling it was a way for the writers to ignore Leonard's question until  some later date or completely.  This question has to be answered and soon because to me something is off about Leonard and Penny relationship this season and I feel that Penny see the relationship differently than what Leonard does.  Leonard see it as partnership while Penny doesn't so much.  And please before anyone get upset and think I am bashing Penny --- I am not.  I just don't get the feeling that Penny isn't all in, which I feel 7.12 and 7.13 showed us.

 

How did 7.12 show that? She proposed to him. Lackluster or not, that means you're all in. I'd much rather they talk about that, because there was no real answer. As for 7.13, she made a decision that thus far has not affected him, and that he is not supportive of. He seemed satisfied enough with the conversation at the end, so I'd say it's done. 

[ArmyGirl]

He did'nt say anything regarding his question after Sheldon said they reconciled. So either he was satisfied or he just chickened out , which would his fault.

 

Actually Leonard didn't really have a chance to say anything once P/S ganged up on him.  We don't know what would have happen if Sheldon had stay out of it!

[vasu]

Actually Leonard didn't really have a chance to say anything once P/S ganged up on him.  We don't know what would have happen if Sheldon had stay out of it!

Does'nt matter . If he wanted to he should have. As simple as that.

So either he was satisfied or he chickened out is the only conclusion here.

[Kasey]

Does'nt matter . If he wanted to he should have. As simple as that.

So either he was satisfied or he chickened out is the only conclusion here.

 

I'm going to go with that he chickened out.  I think until Leonard learns that he can stand up and still potentially get some of the things he wants, then he will forever accept things as they are.  I think he goes along with things and that infuriates Penny because it makes her feel guilty.  I think she wants Leonard to more of the "take charge Leonard with a little backbone".  Doesn't mean she's going to just fall in line, but that she would feel more of them being on an equal footing.

 

Part of the reason why they are on unequal footing with respect to where they are in the relationship is that Leonard is more settled in his career.  I think if Penny felt more secure there, then it would give her more confidence to move forward with Leonard knowing that it's what she WANTS not necessary because she NEEDS money, security or whatever else...

[gsxdoug]

My brother flys medevac helicopters, he calls motorcyclists "organ doners". You be careful out there.

There are two kinds of bikers; those who have crashed and those who are going to, I'm still among the latter.

[SRAM]

There are two kinds of bikers; those who have crashed and those who are going to, I'm still among the latter.

Been there, done that, have the torn T-shirt. I owned one Harley, in my life and I wrapped it around a bridge structural support beam, completely totaled.

I'm going to go with that he chickened out.  I think until Leonard learns that he can stand up and still potentially get some of the things he wants, then he will forever accept things as they are.  I think he goes along with things and that infuriates Penny because it makes her feel guilty.  I think she wants Leonard to more of the "take charge Leonard with a little backbone".  Doesn't mean she's going to just fall in line, but that she would feel more of them being on an equal footing.

 

Part of the reason why they are on unequal footing with respect to where they are in the relationship is that Leonard is more settled in his career.  I think if Penny felt more secure there, then it would give her more confidence to move forward with Leonard knowing that it's what she WANTS not necessary because she NEEDS money, security or whatever else...

I think you may be right, in that the writers are going to use Penny's lack of success as a basis for her commitment issues.

[phantagrae]

I'd define them as lines in a sitcom said solely for the purpose of cheap humor and/or filling up time. That is how I'd define almost every scene that didn't have JEJ in it last night, especially the girl's part. But of course it has lead to all this talk of Penny becoming Katie/Al Bundy and not accepting Leonard and all those other things.

The whole point of last night's episode was to point out the character's immaturity. Penny's laughing at real-life slapstick, three near middle aged men playing dress up (or wanting to) , and Amy staying in a relationship with someone who is not capable of maturing. Everyone is putting more stock into things than necessary.

 

 

I don't think the point of the episode was to point out anyone's immaturity.  I think it was pretty much what the girls were saying--what is it that makes one "mature" or "grown up"?  There's no one answer.  And JEJ, as old and professional as he is, was still acting like a kid because he could.

As koops said, the show is more about acceptance than judging.  So, who gets to say who is mature and who isn't?  Or more importantly, I think it was showing that anyone can be both mature and immature, or that there's no one thing that suddenly defines you as a grown-up--not your job, your age, your marital (or sexual) status.  And I think that you can be a mature person and still have some silly self-indulgences.

I mean, look at all of us--I'm sure we all do mature things--marriage, jobs, college, parenting, etc.--and yet, here we are spending hours talking about the minutae of a TV sitcom.

 

I loved last night's episode--and while there certainly were throw-away jokes--like Bernie saying she buys her clothes at GapKids--there were some real, though not belabored, points.  And it was just dang funny.

Edited January 31, 2014 by phantagrae

[3ku11]

I don't agree that Penny and Leonard are in different places in the relationship, I do beleive that Penny has showed more effort to work on their relationship since Season 5. Penny drunk proposing is not a sign she is not fully into their relationship, the conversation they had the day after, too me was such a matured Penny that told me she want's Leonard, but maybe right now she beleives she is not good enough for Leonard. I think her self esteem and lack of self worth is effecting he relationship with Leonard, hence why their may be this impression that she's not all in, I think she feels isolated right now, she's been in Pasadena seven year's and hasen't even got one acting role. I remember Alicia said she got a part in CSI and had only been in LA for a week, that had to burn Penny lol. So I just think Penny hasbeen very unlucky, its not about talent or if she is good enough, as they prooved that last season. That she can actually act, what I want is although I know why they are hesitant but like to see more of Penny going to auditions, seeing her fail seeing her succeed. She gave up her job at TCCF so she could focus soley on acting, so maybe Penny need's to start networking meeting people, and with the right amount of luck you never know. The moment Penny last season told Leonard she loves him, is the moment Penny lost all control, we are used too seeing Leonard the insecure one in the relationship, but I Think what your saying at the moment is an insecure Penny and Leonard the one in control, so they are not on the same page. But all Penny needs is some self worth and validation from her acting career, or even start up that penny blossom to get some regular stream of income. 

[ajond]

After Sheldon interrupted the conversation, I got the feeling it was a way for the writers to ignore Leonard's question until  some later date or completely.  This question has to be answered and soon because to me something is off about Leonard and Penny relationship this season and I feel that Penny see the relationship differently than what Leonard does.  Leonard see it as partnership while Penny doesn't so much.  And please before anyone get upset and think I am bashing Penny --- I am not.  I just don't get the feeling that Penny isn't all in, which I feel 7.12 and 7.13 showed us.

I am sensing a trend in the relationship.It seems to me there are more P iniated  narky moments than  tender moments. ( not supporting her quitting ,her job, the whole making it as an actress argument, the spending big on scalped tickets, even going back to her fake marriage).. It's possibly me being over-sensitive to their relationship issues but that's me and I am bracing myself for the come backs.

Edited February 1, 2014 by ajond

[terriblewaitress]

I don't see how Penny and Leonard are in different places in the relationship. They both just express it differently which is understandable. Penny physically said to him "I don't want to break up with you" - does she need to prance around with him all the time to show her commitment? It's the little things like her coming over to his apartment comfortably and naturally, taking an interest in what he and the guys are doing even if she finds it sad or doesn't understand it, that kind of stuff. And on a bigger level, what she struggled with most when leaving her job was thinking that Leonard didn't support her. Those kind of things. So if this season they seem a bit 'off' then perhaps we're watching two different shows because those two have really been growing into their relationship this season and sharing some wonderful moments. Her career and their relationship don't have to be at the forefront of everything, they're not 13. 

[Kasey]

What I meant was that I feel that Penny is not ready for the whole shebang of what a totally committed relationship entails, while Leonard has (at least thought) he was ready since the Pilot.  So no, I don't feel there are at the same level.

 

Do they both love each other?  Yes

Do they both want to be together?  Yes

Do they view their relationship in the same way?  I don't think so...

[ArmyGirl]

What I meant was that I feel that Penny is not ready for the whole shebang of what a totally committed relationship entails, while Leonard has (at least thought) he was ready since the Pilot.  So no, I don't feel there are at the same level.

 

Do they both love each other?  Yes

Do they both want to be together?  Yes

Do they view their relationship in the same way?  I don't think so...

 

This is what I was trying to say too.  

 

And it doesn't mean we aren't watching the same show that others are.  Some of us just see that Penny doesn't see her and Leonard in the same manner as Leonard does.

[terriblewaitress]

Just because she can't express her level of commitment as easily, does it mean that she isn't ready to be committed?

 

Like in last nights episode, she had her locket on when the girls were being 'grown up' - she considers her relationship and commitment to Leonard something that makes her an adult and it's something she very happily accepts. And that locket represents that they got through four months without each other and a part of him being by her heart the whole time. 

[Tensor]

This is what I was trying to say too.  

 

And it doesn't mean we aren't watching the same show that others are.  Some of us just see that Penny doesn't see her and Leonard in the same manner as Leonard does.

I'm curious to know why they have to see it the same or express things the same. As long as they're committed in their own way, what is the problem?

[Kasey]

This is what I was trying to say too.  

 

And it doesn't mean we aren't watching the same show that others are.  Some of us just see that Penny doesn't see her and Leonard in the same manner as Leonard does.

 

I think AG that we all bring our OWN personal beliefs in what a relationship means or entails and that is how we are viewing Lenny.  It's not a matter of right or wrong as you expressed - it is what it is.

 

I remember years ago when my peers were getting married (for the first time) that many of the women maintained a separate bank account.  Their money was their money and the husband basically paid the bills.  I never understood that.  I only had one account and all money was joint.   Decisions were made jointly especially job quitting or changing.

 

 Now I realize that Lenny is not married but some of the same principles still apply to their relationship...

 

 

Just because she can't express her level of commitment as easily, does it mean that she isn't ready to be committed?

 

Like in last nights episode, she had her locket on when the girls were being 'grown up' - she considers her relationship and commitment to Leonard something that makes her an adult and it's something she very happily accepts. And that locket represents that they got through four months without each other and a part of him being by her heart the whole time. 

 

There is more to their relationship than just commitment, at least that is how I see things.  Again I believe she wants to be with him but do I think they should march down the aisle right now?  Um no...

[ArmyGirl]

I'm curious to know why they have to see it the same or express things the same. As long as they're committed in their own way, what is the problem?

 

Does Penny see their relationship as a true partnership as Leonard does is all I am talking about.  And if that bothers you and others then so be it.  Some act as if their opinion is the only one that counts and tries to bully others to change their opinion.

[Tensor]

Does Penny see their relationship as a true partnership as Leonard does is all I am talking about.  And if that bothers you and others then so be it.  Some act as if their opinion is the only one that counts and tries to bully others to change their opinion.

Where did that come from, all I did was ask a question. If some see it fine, if other don't that's fine too. It's doesn't bother me either way.

[3ku11]

I'm curious to know why they have to see it the same or express things the same. As long as they're committed in their own way, what is the problem?

Were talking about the same relationship here aren't we? Of course they see their relationship differently thats the whole point of Lenny, differences and opposites attract. They have many different ideals and values that they bring to their relationship, Leonard was brought up in thinking education and success is everything, Penny was brought up never having any expectations other then to just look pretty lol basically, her relationship with her father as he referred to her as his little "slugger", really was a big part of why she decided to become an actress. How do we know she could actually act, she was gorgeous but remember in Season 2 The Barbarian Sublination she said the casting said she looked too much like a type, too texas. Thats the point theirs girls like her all around LA wanting the same dream, so I don't think she has yet to succeed when I Think about it because she sucks at acting, but more due a lack of luck. Lenny view their relationship differently, Penny feels Leonard is not challenging her enough to push her to pursue either acting or another direction, and Leonard feels Penny can't see what others see, I think he feels Penny feels she needs to proove something, but she doesen't really. Their love and relationship is more requitted now, its an equal partnership, nothing Penny does or Leonard does or says well ever change that they love each other, but at this point sometimes love is not enough and Penny is realizing this, she cannot get by her looks anymore, that was the case since Season 2.

[Kasey]

Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus...

[ArmyGirl]

Where did that come from, all I did was ask a question. If some see it fine, if other don't that's fine too. It's doesn't bother me either way.

 

Tensor, I let my temper get the best of me.  So to you I apologize to you for that.

 

As for the other part I am sick of some others thinking their opinion is the correct one and that anyone that dare to voice something else is wrong.

[3ku11]

Tensor, I let my temper get the best of me.  So to you I apologize to you for that.

 

As for the other part I am sick of some others thinking their opinion is the correct one and that anyone that dare to voice something else is wrong.

Unfortunately the Big Bang Theory fandom is not a diplomacy .

[Tensor]

Were talking about the same relationship here aren't we? Of course they see their relationship differently thats the whole point of Lenny, differences and opposites attract.

Ahhhhhh, what? My comment was in reply to another poster saying they don't see their relationship in the same way. I was just asking why there was something wrong with that. Your comments actually are examples of why they shouldn't look at it the same, supporting my question.

[3ku11]

Ahhhhhh, what? My comment was in reply to another poster saying they don't see their relationship in the same way. I was just asking why there was something wrong with that. Your comments actually are examples of why they shouldn't look at it the same, supporting my question.

Sorry Ten I was actually supporting to post, quoted the wrong person haha. 

[I.Am.Molly]

Does Penny see their relationship as a true partnership as Leonard does is all I am talking about.  And if that bothers you and others then so be it.  Some act as if their opinion is the only one that counts and tries to bully others to change their opinion.

 

Yes, she does. As Terrible Waitress said, she just doesnt show it in the same way Leonard does. I think her wearing that locket, keeping that box in her closet, keeping the snowflake by her bed and telling him that she is passionate about him, shows how she feels in the relationship. She asked him to marry her for crying out loud! Yes, she was drunk and done it out of vulnerability, but she asked that question, which meant it had to have been on her mind because things like that dont just come out of nowhere. 

 

What i think, and excuse me if this comes off rude but its something that has bothered me on this thread for so long, is that maybe some people should stop focusing on just Leonard in this relationship and continue to put all the fauts on Penny. Maybe try and see Penny's side to things and take note of the small things she does to show how she feels about Leonard because if theres one thing we should have learned about Penny its that she doesnt show her love and commitment to him and their relationship in big gestures, she shows it in the little things, like wearing that locket.

[Tensor]

Tensor, I let my temper get the best of me.  So to you I apologize to you for that.

It's not a problem with me. But, if it's bothering you step back for a bit, take a deep breath, before you answer.

 

As for the other part I am sick of some others thinking their opinion is the correct one and that anyone that dare to voice something else is wrong.

Well, I can be quite pedantic(One of my Leonard characteristics) and ask and nit pic how someone came to their opinion. Doesn't mean I think it's wrong, but I tend point out if there is, what I think, is a weak point in anything presented.