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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


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So true Tensor.   The most consistent motif the writers have used with Penny is her insecurity about her intelligence and judgement. It pops up constantly in several episodes a season, starting with

Bullshit. My wife and I have OUR money. If money is budgeted for her to get clothes or for me to get clothes, neither one of us is giving the other money for clothes, we are using OUR money to get clo

OK, I went and re-watched the show tonight. I was looking at how Leonard and Penny reacted and it became obvious it was a no-win for Leonard. He was obviously sticking his foot in his mouth while tryi

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I said, I don't want Penny forced into anything.  No one should be forced to do anything they don't want!

I agree neither Penny or Leonard should be forced to make a decision, that's why I said I think Penny need's to give the acting thing a go, and get some success their and bring some balance to their relationship. Because TBH that's the only thing holding her back.

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On the spoiler thread it was mentioned that Prof Proton is going to be back...... I hope it is something related to Penny's career and not something about Sheldon(again) ......

 

Prof Proton seemed like a huge fan of Penny and would be happy to help her.... :p

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Regarding the student loan issue, guys as smart as Leonard and Sheldon get free rides. I know, as I serve on scholarship committees. Further, if Leonard's parents work at Princeton, he could go for free. That is the standard deal for faculty. Graduate school in physics at their level is free too, as they would be working on government funded projects. It is unlikely that either have student loans.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the possibility that Penny just likes living alone at the moment. Clearly she loves Leonard, and plans to have a future with him, but at this point, she just might like being her own messy self. As noted in the second episode this season, Leonard is far neater than she is. Maybe just for now, she likes having her own space and clutter. Moving forward in their relationship may mean to Penny staging for children, where neatness and better living arrangements are necessary. As things stand now, she has company when she wants it, and doesn't when she needs to be alone. Leoanrd is the center of the group. If he moves in, she'd be expected to host the others. I don't think she wants to do that, yet. She did enjoy the dinner party, but not inher personal space.

I also don't think the commitment issue is as big a deal as some make it out to be. When has it come up? Clearly Penny and Leonard are solid. Thye might disagree, but the relationship is good. Even with the failed proposals, Both are functionally committed to the relationship.

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For those interested in the taping and broadcast schedules, please see  I'm putting this in here as this is a spoiler thread and many who have asked questions about this information are from the spoiler threads.  Please read the intro and follow the instructions there for passing along any feedback.

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I think it needs to be said but not once has Penny made it clear that she doesent want to live, or be married to Leonard. She diddn't have the advantages in life that guys and the girls had, when they were growing up. Penny choose a career that has a ton more risks involved, the gains in a career in acting can be benificial and satisfying, but when it doesen't pay off, it can cause you to feel isolated and unfulfilled. These days getting discoverd is kinda like a dieing art, you kinda need to push your self, maybe Penny hasen't.

But her failure in being an actor, does not make her a failure in life, nor does that give any insight or proof that she doesen't want to live with Leonard, shes just not ready, as she wants to acheive more, do ppl really think Penny the way she is now wld bring her best to a marrage. With Science its all about facts and figures, its a much safer career direction, as it does not require any physical effort, if your brought up in a scientific family, you can easily acquire the knowledge.

Pennys been on her own since she was 18, now shes 28 shes at a point in her life, she needs financial security but also still wants to fulfill her dreams, so shes at a crossroads in her life. Its not her fault she is round more succusful ppl. I actually think Penny deserves more not Leonard, but Lenny are not ready for marrage, but does not mean they never well be.

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Becoming a successful scientist requires an enormous amount of physical, mental and emotional effort, for relatively little reward. Recall from the first season Raj's dad pointing this out. You don't make a lot of money even if you are good, and people treat you badly. This is one of the points of the show. The scientists in the show, while intellectually gifted, got where they are by working hard and putting up with a lot of abuse from society. Of course, doing most things successfully require a lot of effort and some help from a good genetic legacy. The guys are lucky to be smart, and Penny is lucky to be gorgeous. The guys study all the time, Penny works out and watches her figure. But, Penny, as a very attrcative female was popular socially, and by her own admission, allowed to be a bully. She would have been the sort of person to cheer on the football players giving Sheldon swirlies. Penny has learned that these five uber-nerds are nice, kind, supportive and loyal, in spite of the fact that in the context of the show they are not physically attractive. Penny's physical peers (Kurt, Mike, David Underhill) treated her poorly, the five main characters treat her like family, and she feel in love with one. Who, BTW, put in a lot of effort to win her.

The point I believe is being made is that if you are smart and work really hard, then you can have success in science as a career. There is less luck involved. There is some luck, as being in the right place and the right time always helps. One can work hard and have the gifts to be a great actor, and you also need to be lucky. The CSI part could have been Penny's piece of luck if it aired, and led to other parts. Kevin Costner turned out to be a great actor, but his first big part was cut from "The Big Chill". The quality of the work wasn't important, as the part didn't fit into the overall story. In science, if you do something great, you will get published and get credit. Maybe you make a little more money. It is funny that the careers that yield approbation and respect early on from to a broad swath of society (acting and sports) are those for which there are actually few real jobs. There are tiny numbers of actors and athletes that actually make any money at those activities, yet because one gets rewarded early and often in these careers (gorgeous or athletic kids are rewarded while smart ones are not) lots of people aspire to these careers. It is great if you make it, but the odds are very much against it.

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Agree with all above did not mean to imply, it takes no physical or mental exposistion in being a scientis, it clearly does. But just making the point they have the advantage of being geniuaes, Penny does not have their IQ, she has choosen a career that prob has more pitfalls then studying science, hence the risks involved. For example a therotical physcist may not make progress in their work for years,

then suddenly they can get a big break, so its more mentall

y exhausting. Where as with acting its a career suited to ppl like penny, who are gorgeous and practical, society allows and expects based on howou look, to behave a certain way, and this determinss the choices you make. Its true based on her social peers, she was the cheerleader type and allowed to be a bully. But it wasent only till she met the guys that her self actulization began to be deconstructed, her friends she began to realize werent "real" friends. She was isolated when the show began, and although the nerds like Leonard werent neccessary the traits and characterics that she is susposed to be compatible with, they became a support network for her. Their is alot more reward with acting then science, but the ratio from no success to big success, is alot more vast in acting, the overall physical and mentle stress can be immense.

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Now that Penny is no longer working at the cheese cake factory, TBBT has room for another set. Will be interested to see what happens. Another standard set means a lot of options are available.

 

Yes... unless the TCF set is the one they usually redress to represent other restaurants...

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But her failure in being an actor, does not make her a failure in life, nor does that give any insight or proof that she doesen't want to live with Leonard, shes just not ready, as she wants to acheive more, do ppl really think Penny the way she is now wld bring her best to a marrage. With Science its all about facts and figures, its a much safer career direction, as it does not require any physical effort, if your brought up in a scientific family, you can easily acquire the knowledge.

 

I can’t even tell you how incredibly insulting it is for you to say that. I, plus every student in my classes, worked our freaking asses off getting our engineering degrees and we did have a couple geniuses in my class. While we were studying evenings and weekends, the Liberal Arts students partied their asses off, which by the way included the acting students. Coming from a family of professionals does not mean you glide by science and engineering classes, or does being a genius, it maybe allows you understand things easier, but there is still an incredible amount of work you have to do.

Edited by SRAM
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As I was watching "Mom" tonight (a surprisingly funny/serious show btw), I was struck by the idea of Leonard and Penny some years from now with a typical wise-cracking kid that Lorre writes so well. Could you see Leonard and Penny with a kid like Jake from the first season of TAAHM? We only see them now as just barely adults, but a flash forward could be amazing.

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As I was watching "Mom" tonight (a surprisingly funny/serious show btw), I was struck by the idea of Leonard and Penny some years from now with a typical wise-cracking kid that Lorre writes so well. Could you see Leonard and Penny with a kid like Jake from the first season of TAAHM? We only see them now as just barely adults, but a flash forward could be amazing.

Did my post about Leonard and Penny having kids strike everyone dumb with shock?

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Did my post about Leonard and Penny having kids strike everyone dumb with shock?

Now that the TPTB have decided to keep a scorecard and play games with how many proposals each have made poorly. I can't even imagine them engaged let alone married with kids! :(

Edited by SodidIwin?

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I can't see them married with children, because Penny needs to settle her acting dream.  I could maybe see them married but not till at least next season.  I can definitely see them living together, now.

 

The big question is who they put where.  I don't think Sheldon can stay in the apartment alone, because he is not funny by himself, so that is a big problem for a Sheldon centered show.  The writers have painted themselves in a box.  Like Sheldon told Amy, it really pertains to him, he is the snake in Lenny's garden and why they can't be happy.  So it gets back to who moves in with who again.

 

I don't really see a major change to the stories if Leonard and Penny move in together, because they are mostly always together now, and we the fans expect them together.  Leonard even now talks to Penny about what he is doing before he spends a lot of guy time with his friends, they might as well live together.  She can always make him sleep on the couch or Sheldon's couch, when he really screws up, for the night.

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You take things too seriosley and literally i never meant to imply Scientists dont work hard of course they do, but I was just emphazising being an actress takes more then just the application and talent to make it big, it requires a lot if luck.

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Can I just say 2 da skeptics of Lenny, you need to stop stressing, they are still in a good place. Their is prob going to be more failed engagements, partly due to the writers dragging things out, but also Penny not being ready. Lenny were end game since the pilot, theirs nothing right now that strikes to me that we should be worried, take a page out of the Shamys book, they have been through a ton more tbh then Lennys, Shamy even havent kissed! Sure Lennys a conventional relationship compared to Shamy, (who isint). But in terms of progress Lenny have had a ton more.

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Can I just say 2 da skeptics of Lenny, you need to stop stressing, they are still in a good place. Their is prob going to be more failed engagements, partly due to the writers dragging things out, but also Penny not being ready. Lenny were end game since the pilot, theirs nothing right now that strikes to me that we should be worried, take a page out of the Shamys book, they have been through a ton more tbh then Lennys, Shamy even havent kissed! Sure Lennys a conventional relationship compared to Shamy, (who isint). But in terms of progress Lenny have had a ton more.

Well I for one wouldn’t be categorized as being in the “stressing” column. I have no doubt that they may very well be in a good place currently. However, as a Lenny supporter I can at the same time be disappointed with the seemingly cavalier attitude the TPTB indicated they are handling the failed proposals between the two. We have waited a long time for a true proposal and to turn it into a joke, even on a sitcom, simply tarnishes the eventual real proposal.  That is if we even know if it is real when it happens. Perhaps when the real one does come the person asking (since it is now being tracked on a scorecard either one I suppose can proposal for real eventually) can preface it by saying something like now can we be serious for a moment so I can discuss an important topic that is on my mind.

 

Also, I can’t understand how you can say that A/S is been through a ton more than Lenny? I’m sorry but I must have missed them breaking up multiple times for long periods (the last being over 2 years). All A/S has gone through is a few minor bumps in the road by two people in their very first relationship. With one of those participants just beginning to hit puberty now. Amy knew full well how Shelly was from the beginning. Why would anyone feel sorry for her? Right from the very first date that the three of them went on (P/A/S) you had to figure Amy had a freaky side to her if she agreed to “scientific” studies consisting of over 100 induced orgasms. So her being frustrated by Sheldon for years should have been considered in her 5 year plan.

 

Finally, personally when some posters love to use the phrase “end game” in their arguments it does absolutely nothing for me. What exactly is “end game” that on the very last episode of the very last season they get married and live happily ever after? I want to enjoy watching episodes where they are actually married. With all the ups and downs that go with it.

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You take things too seriosley and literally i never meant to imply Scientists dont work hard of course they do, but I was just emphazising being an actress takes more then just the application and talent to make it big, it requires a lot if luck.

 

Your post pushed some of my buttons, but okay we're good.

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End game simply means the final situation for the couple. Currently it is expected by most fans that end game for both Shamy and Lenny will be the two couples married. That does not have to happen at the end of the series or the last year.

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Well I for one wouldn’t be categorized as being in the “stressing” column. I have no doubt that they may very well be in a good place currently. However, as a Lenny supporter I can at the same time be disappointed with the seemingly cavalier attitude the TPTB indicated they are handling the failed proposals between the two. We have waited a long time for a true proposal and to turn it into a joke, even on a sitcom, simply tarnishes the eventual real proposal.  That is if we even know if it is real when it happens. Perhaps when the real one does come the person asking (since it is now being tracked on a scorecard either one I suppose can proposal for real eventually) can preface it by saying something like now can we be serious for a moment so I can discuss an important topic that is on my mind.

 

Also, I can’t understand how you can say that A/S is been through a ton more than Lenny? I’m sorry but I must have missed them breaking up multiple times for long periods (the last being over 2 years). All A/S has gone through is a few minor bumps in the road by two people in their very first relationship. With one of those participants just beginning to hit puberty now. Amy knew full well how Shelly was from the beginning. Why would anyone feel sorry for her? Right from the very first date that the three of them went on (P/A/S) you had to figure Amy had a freaky side to her if she agreed to “scientific” studies consisting of over 100 induced orgasms. So her being frustrated by Sheldon for years should have been considered in her 5 year plan.

 

Finally, personally when some posters love to use the phrase “end game” in their arguments it does absolutely nothing for me. What exactly is “end game” that on the very last episode of the very last season they get married and live happily ever after? I want to enjoy watching episodes where they are actually married. With all the ups and downs that go with it.

 

I agree, making the proposals a new running laugh, in the show, really is making a sort of joke of the Lenny Ship, which was the whole original plot in the show when it started.  It stops being funny after a while, and I think after the last few episodes we have reached that point.

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I missed the scorecard being started. Since I only really follow this thread, something started in another thread might have slipped by me. Have TPTB actually started making a joke of their own ability to write a successful proposal? These failures are their own, as none of the failed proposals, nor the suggestions that Leonard has proposed "a lot" are funny to me. They point out a dysfunction that the writers have built into the couple such that two people, in love, one highly intelligent and one that has pretty solid social skills, close to thirty, can't sit down for a few minutes and hammer this out. Penny's proposal looked as real as any should, apart from the spur of the moment nature and her being to some degree impaired. At this point, one would think that Leonard would have enough presence of mind to put his arms around her and sure, honey, if you still feel the same way tomorrow morning. Let's go sleep on it. This is not rocket science. Instead, they make a joke of it. I am bored and annoyed by it, as not only does it disrespect the couple, but isn't funny. I'll put up with it if I find it funny, but I don't. I used to enjoy watching the episodes repeatedly, now I watch, then erase from the DVR. I do not have the nature to rubberneck at a car wreck, and this is starting to get that way. 

 

I particularly find it odd that the writers are leaning so hard on Lenny this season. Aren't their other characters, including their precious Sheldon and Amy? When were the last time these two were even in the same scene? The last episode, Sheldon was off running around with James Earl Jones, in an arc that got progressively creepy and OOC. Sheldon in a steam bath? Never happened, not even for Darth Vader.

 

If the writers would let them, I'm sure Lenny could sort this out, in character, in five minutes. First, answer the "commitment issue" question. What is her issue? Second, have a mutual proposal with an extended engagement while Penny works on her career. Third, work it out so Leonard technically "lives" with Sheldon during the engagement, but as many have suggested, agree to sleep with Penny every night possible (she may be on location, so that may be difficult depending on distances). End of the issue until the marriage. 

 

The writers may hopefully be focusing on Sheldon finally hitting puberty, and realizing he has a willing female to experiment with. Having Sheldon struggle with finding out how engrossing sex is while rationalizing it with his "homo novus" perception of himself would be very funny. Watching him in the throes of his biological urges, and Amy in control of the relationship as a result would be wonderful. The fact that he is so bonded to Amy denies his presumptive asexual nature. Note that he was a "semi-pro" at masturbating in the first episode of the show. Nothing in his character to date would preclude that, as it avoids human contact, can be done very cleanly and is totally in his control. 

 

I think my main sense is that the writers are stuck. It is presumed that they will get a three year contract, so they are flailing around trying to figure out to extend existing plot lines, rather than doing what they should do and have done before - develop new ones. Let's see whether they are up to the task. 

 

As things stand now, I do believe that there is no real threat apparent to Lenny. The one thing that this season has shown to me is that Leonard and Penny seem beyond pretty much anything breaking them up. All the implausible things that have happened that could move them apart don't seem to have that affect, as they basically kiss and get over it. That is the sign of a solid, permanent relationship. It is going to take a lot for me to melt down about them again. I just may not enjoy the stupid things the writers are making them go throuhg.

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Soldwinn this has never been the type of show that has massive changes and cliffhangers in a 22 min show a week. It has more realistic meticlous slow changes. Just saying having lenny sort out their issues, get married, penny becoming a movie star, leonard wins a noble prize e.t.c All in a wk haha that wld get old. They are dragging it out not to keep score, but its their wy of keepingg viewersss innvested. If anything they are showing how solid and strong lenny is.

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I missed the scorecard being started. Since I only really follow this thread, something started in another thread might have slipped by me. Have TPTB actually started making a joke of their own ability to write a successful proposal?

 

Yes, I believe it was Molaro who made a comment about the proposal score being 2 to 1 in an interview a week or two ago.

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