Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Tensor]

Normally you and I agree,

Knowing we don't agree on everything is good, right. Otherwise it would't be interesting.

 

but to me, all the season 6 conflict was not all positive as I see it.  The valentine conflict and the resultant 'Penny must propose', seems to me to be a deliberate ploy to delay the relationship by the writers,  Penny is in no hurry, as we see when Bernadette mentions marriage to her, that it made her feel better to be married to Howard before he went on his trip.

I don't think the situations are comparable. H/B were already engaged, and were within two weeks (maybe one) of the original wedding taking place. L/P weren't engaged and as a result, had no plans for a wedding.

 

I also thing the school report conflict did nothing for the relationship, because Penny should have used Leonard to help her, instead she completly pushed him out of that part of her life.  You are right not all the conflict was bad, the Cole incident made her confess her love for him, but I am saying not  all of it was good either.

Well, if Leonard had approached it differently, she may not have. But, I'm not blaming either one, or I am blaming either one. They should have talked about it, but they weren't at that stage yet. I can see why you and I don't agree here, not a problem here. One thing, I've got to keep remembering the difference between what has actually happened in the series and what has happened in "Chew Toy".

[Nogravitasatall]

I doubt they really need to add more Lenny conflict to slow things down with that relationship. They have plenty of milestones left before things would get boring:

1. Moving in Together

2. The Proposal

3. The Wedding

4. Kids? (Please )

 

The first could happen at any time so if things become stale they can always throw that in, the earliest they could have the proposal without it feeling rushed would be maybe the last episode before they take the winter off and it seems much more likely to happen in May or June if it happens at all this season. If it does happen in S7 then the wedding probably wouldn't happen until the end of S8 (I really can't see them having a shorter engagement than Bernie and Howard). That gives them all of S9 to have them adjusting to being married, then for S10 they find out Penny is pregnant and you have plenty of material for that season as well and end S10 with the birth of the first of their 'Smart and Beautiful' babies. Personally I think that would be a great way to tie off the entire series with a call back to the very first episode, but even if they want to go to 11 or more seasons you have a whole new aspect of the show to add with Leonard and Penny being parents.

You HAVE drunk the Kool-Aid, quickly. Heheh.

[I.Am.Molly]

It is not necessaryily Leonard that could do it, it is Sheldon and his big mouth, that could mention it.

Haha! This is true! Although I still stand by my point that she really doesn't have a leg to stand on depending on how the movie is shown. If, like it is in my mind, it's more of the slasher type pschyo kind of scene, she really can't get mad at him. I doubt it's going to be some sultry sexy scene that he is showing to all his buddies so like I said, she can't get too mad. She made the movie with the intention of it being seen. But I still doubt it will be mentioned again, that's why I refuse to get so worked up over it. I'm keeping my faith that the writers will do right by these two.

[Tensor]

You HAVE drunk the Kool-Aid, quickly. Heheh.

Sounds like me, eh?

[SRAM]

One thing, I've got to keep remembering the difference between what has actually happened in the series and what has happened in "Chew Toy".

 

 

Yeah, I almost referenced my own fanfiction once.  Lucky I caught myself.

[phantagrae]

Leonard's been gone for 4 months and we are suppose to believe that at no time did Penny talk about what the guys were doing?  It's not about the novelty -- it's about Penny bringing Leonard up to speed on what is happening on the home front.

 

Again, why would she waste her alone time giving Leonard a rundown of the group's activities?  They can talk about that at any point--or he can find out from the gang, if he hasn't been skyping with any of them while he's been gone.

 

What difference does it make that she didn't tell him about Raj?  First of all, it's FUNNIER for him to suddenly realize it when it actually happens because it underscores how it's a new development.  And it's also about SHOWING rather than TELLING.  "Showing" is almost always better than "Telling" in any kind of storytelling setting.

 

Some things must be told for expositional reasons, but in a visual medium it's usually preferrable to show the things happening or to show the reaction, in this case, Leonard being surprised by this new development.

 

But mostly, it makes no storytelling sense to have Penny in there giving Leonard some newsletter update when the two of them can be having sex, looking at Leonard's pictures and just enjoying each other's company while they ignore the rest of the world.

[I.Am.Molly]

One thing, I've got to keep remembering the difference between what has actually happened in the series and what has happened in "Chew Toy".

This right here is a problem I've had too! Not just with your fic but with my own and tdawgs! The price we pay for reading and writing fanfiction! Haha

[Occam's Chainsaw]

^^^

Also it allows them to introduce any changes they want (as long as they aren't to big) by having Leonard react to things that are new, since there apparently was a breakdown in communications over the break.

[ArmyGirl]

I doubt they really need to add more Lenny conflict to slow things down with that relationship. They have plenty of milestones left before things would get boring:

1. Moving in Together

2. The Proposal

3. The Wedding

4. Kids? (Please )

 

The first could happen at any time so if things become stale they can always throw that in, the earliest they could have the proposal without it feeling rushed would be maybe the last episode before they take the winter off and it seems much more likely to happen in May or June if it happens at all this season. If it does happen in S7 then the wedding probably wouldn't happen until the end of S8 (I really can't see them having a shorter engagement than Bernie and Howard). That gives them all of S9 to have them adjusting to being married, then for S10 they find out Penny is pregnant and you have plenty of material for that season as well and end S10 with the birth of the first of their 'Smart and Beautiful' babies. Personally I think that would be a great way to tie off the entire series with a call back to the very first episode, but even if they want to go to 11 or more seasons you have a whole new aspect of the show to add with Leonard and Penny being parents.

 

As long as Sheldon isn't allowed to grow and because a true adult nothing big can happen in Lenny relationship and add Penny commitment issues to the pile and it will take another 6 years to get anything major for the couple.  It's all about the status quo for TPTB and they seem to be very happy with where Lenny at the moment.  I still say being in the same holding pattern of another two or three years will be like waiting on Penny to say ILY which basically took six years --- you have to ask what will make fans of the couple hang around without some kind of reward for being loyal year after year. 

Edited August 29, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Occam's Chainsaw]

As long as Sheldon isn't allowed to grow and because a true adult nothing big can happen in Lenny relationship and add Penny commitment issues to the pile and it will take another 6 years to get anything major for the couple.  It's all about the status quo for TPTB and they seem to be very happy with where Lenny at the moment.  I still say being in the same holding pattern of another two or three years will be like waiting on Penny to say ILY which basically took six years --- you have to ask what make fans of the couple hang around without some kind of reward for being loyal year after year. 

Alternately the changes between Leonard and Penny force Sheldon to grow up, or at least adapt. I highly doubt that they could push Penny's proposal out past S8 without making things really weird, and when it comes down to it TPTB don't want that. They don't need to further stall things with Lenny to easily push 10 seasons without seriously changing things up (by adding a baby for instance). There is enough natural tension and speed bumps in developing their relationship further without throwing more in just to create more drama.

[Nogravitasatall]

As long as Sheldon isn't allowed to grow and because a true adult nothing big can happen in Lenny relationship and add Penny commitment issues to the pile and it will take another 6 years to get anything major for the couple. It's all about the status quo for TPTB and they seem to be very happy with where Lenny at the moment. I still say being in the same holding pattern of another two or three years will be like waiting on Penny to say ILY which basically took six years --- you have to ask what make fans of the couple hang around without some kind of reward for being loyal year after year.

Hmmm. It depends. Be careful what you wish for. If they don't drag it out they have to destroy the premise and have to reboot or spin-off the show. That splits the audience and cuts the $, reducing the incentive. This thing is more than the sum of its parts. The reward is the journey, for me, not the destination. Any real couple would run a mile from Sheldon. No bromance in the world could reasonably justify the amount of intrusion Sheldon is happy to provide. In 7.02 they could have been making sweet, sweet, wild monkey love on the couch. That's awkward enough when people come to the door and knock, unendurable if they barge in with their emergency key. Edited August 29, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[terriblewaitress]

you have to ask what will make fans of the couple hang around without some kind of reward for being loyal year after year. 

 

I actually love that it's taken them this long to get this far. If they suddenly started moving along faster, it would be boring to watch and you wouldn't have anything to root for. 

[ArmyGirl]

Hmmm. It depends. Be careful what you wish for. If they don't drag it out they have to destroy the premise and have to reboot or spin-off the show. That splits the audience and cuts the $, reducing the incentive. This thing is more than the sum of its parts. The reward is the journey, for me, not the destination. Any real couple would run a mile from Sheldon. No bromance in the world could reasonably justify the amount of intrusion Sheldon is happy to provide. In 7.02 they could have been having noon time sex on the couch. That's awkward enough when people come to the door and knock, unendurable if they barge in with their emergency key.

 

When I say this about the holding pattern for major parts of a show --- I did the dance with JAG and wait and wait to only get a flip of a coin to decide what would happen for the main couple.  It took 9 years from the minute Mac joined the show and the very last episode is when dance stopped. The dragging out of the couple cause me dislike the male character dues to him pushing and pulling Mac's character away for some dumb reason. 

 

I don't want the same thing to happen with Leonard and Penny relationship since it has always been a big part of the show and at some point the writers are going to happen to put up or shut up, are they will start to lose viewers (it happen with JAG).

[Nogravitasatall]

I actually love that it's taken them this long to get this far. If they suddenly started moving along faster, it would be boring to watch and you wouldn't have anything to root for.

I don't mind the long game either. As long as they don't do stabbing in the heart thing again, then let them play by the side of the road a bit as the caravan ambles along.

[phantagrae]

I think what's important is that they can do all kinds of things with these people without it being just about their relationships and I think that may well be part of what they're going for in this season, with experimenting with mixing up which characters have storylines together.  We know we're going to get a Howard/Amy idea and there may more unusual interactions to come.

 

They can explore the characters individually and in odd combinations that highlight new or underdeveloped aspects of their personalities which will allow them to take their time with romantic developments without coming up with "artificial" ways to put off the end-game developments (marriage, etc.)

 

I think that too often, nowadays, and especially with internet discussions, etc., that every show that has a male/female partnership going on is expected to pair them off, develop a romance and then have it bloom.  But if that happens too early in a show, or happens just because there's some sense that the fans want that, then a good show can lose its way under that weight.

Now that the couple has gotten together, is that romantic pairing going to get in the way of the kinds of stories that were being told before?

I remember on TXF, where there was EXTREME pressure from many fans to put Mulder and Scully in the sack, David Duchovny remarked that he wondered if that would end up changing the kinds of conversations that M&S would have at the office.  Instead of discussing the case, would they be having domestic discussions about leaving the toilet seat up or some spat they had at home, etc.?

 

I think that's kind of a valid point.

 

On TBBT, we still have time to get to the happy endings and I think they've given the Lenny the ups and downs they've had simply because L/P/S are at the forefront and the L/P relationship has always been central to the show's original premise.  The development of their relationship can't happen too quickly because it has the most power in terms of the big picture.

I think that the Shamy relationship is probably next in line to that because Sheldon is the other side of the coin in the central issue.  And because his relationship with Amy is so different from everyone and everything else.

I think that because Howard was on the "lower tier", if you will, it was easier to progress his relationship with Bernie at a faster pace.  They become something of a unit that operates to a great degree in the same space that Howard occupied on his own.

I would say that Raj is another character whose relationship can be explored at a different rate than the Lenny and the Shamy, if they decide how they want to go about it.  But actually, now that they've gotten rid of the alcohol crutch, they can have some fun exploring the development of his new found girl-chatting skills.

He still has a way to go, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a bit more movement on that front as well, giving some relief to the pressure to quickly develop the Lenny and the Shamy.

[rickfromillinois]

Since it was Penny that he talked to first, I think it's a big deal and as much as Penny loves to gossip you would think she mention how Raj is dating like crazy and talking her and the girls head off without drinking.

As far as Leonard knows, Raj and Penny had sex.  He hasn't seen Penny in 4 months.   He may not be too thrilled if she starting informing him about how Raj has been spending allot of time talking to her without the benefit of alcohal while he was away.   Just saying.

[Nogravitasatall]

As far as Leonard knows, Raj and Penny had sex. He hasn't seen Penny in 4 months. He may not be too thrilled if she starting informing him about how Raj has been spending allot of time talking to her without the benefit of alcohal while he was away. Just saying.

hehehehehehehehehehehehe and again ... thump. LMHO. That comes out in ep7.13.

[Chrismo]

As far as Leonard knows, Raj and Penny had sex.  He hasn't seen Penny in 4 months.   He may not be too thrilled if she starting informing him about how Raj has been spending allot of time talking to her without the benefit of alcohal while he was away.   Just saying.

Like when Leonard proposed during sex. Penny could have mentioned during sex that Raj could talk to women sober

[eirwinrommel]

You definitely have a point. However, Leonard is the guy who, after he found out Penny would not date him because of her lack of academic credentials, gave her a brochure from the Pasadena City College and thought she would be happy... He can be very, very, very oblivious.

While I agree, that wasn't the best move in the world. He should have talked to her and let her tell him what she wanted to do to feel better about this, not try to solve her 'problem'. Since then he's had a few years of experience with Penny and I'd hope he'd know enough not to do something that stupid now.

[3ku11]

hehehehehehehehehehehehe and again ... thump. LMHO. That comes out in ep7.13.

I think it was established in 5x02 though that Penny and Raj did NOT have sex, Raj said they diddn't have sex in the tradadtional manner, remember Penny said oh god you diddn't put some indian hudu crap on me did you haha. I think it was implied their was kissing and stuff but Penny passed out, and they just woke up in the same bed not that it matters any more. Leonard was pretty good about it, apart from their first date on the 100th ep he brought it up, but Penny must of been really really really drunk and really really really really really missing Leonard to even get herself in that position in the first place. And as for the progress of Lenny I have enjoyed the slow place, thats the point of relatonships in sitcoms, it brings more storylines if they drag it out, I have enjoyed watching Penny mature and getting to the point were her feelings grow for Leonard. It's riduclous to complain she is not where she was in S1, as much it as riduclous to say Leonard woulden't be happy about a sober Raj

[hamerman55]

I think the most obvious reason why no one else told Leonard that Raj can speak to women without alcohol is that they assumed he told them himself. One would think his buddy would have texted, emailed or Skyped Leonard the news. It is a much bigger deal to Raj than anyone else. So I guess Raj has had NO contact with Leonard since the bon voyage party?

[Nogravitasatall]

@3ku11, I have NO DOUBT that Penny and Leonard are in a committed relationship. Not quite common-law but vewy, vewy cwose. So I can play around with the idea of Raj, Sheldon and even Amy as fantasy hookups. Because they are fantastical, imaginary and will never ever ever ever ever happen. Or maybe they will. ( see what I did, there?) LOL

Edited August 30, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[eirwinrommel]

I think it was established in 5x02 though that Penny and Raj did NOT have sex, Raj said they diddn't have sex in the tradadtional manner, remember Penny said oh god you diddn't put some indian hudu crap on me did you haha. I think it was implied their was kissing and stuff but Penny passed out, and they just woke up in the same bed not that it matters any more. Leonard was pretty good about it, apart from their first date on the 100th ep he brought it up, but Penny must of been really really really drunk and really really really really really missing Leonard to even get herself in that position in the first place. And as for the progress of Lenny I have enjoyed the slow place, thats the point of relatonships in sitcoms, it brings more storylines if they drag it out, I have enjoyed watching Penny mature and getting to the point were her feelings grow for Leonard. It's riduclous to complain she is not where she was in S1, as much it as riduclous to say Leonard woulden't be happy about a sober Raj

The question isn't whether they had sex, but does Leonard know they didn't have sex. because as late as season 6 episode 1 it was implied that he didn't and they've never corrected that impression.

 

Raj: Yeah, no. But yet, here you two are, still together. And that’s even after you and I had our crazy naked night.

Leonard: Okay.

Penny: That’s enough.

[ArmyGirl]

The question isn't whether they had sex, but does Leonard know they didn't have sex. because as late as season 6 episode 1 it was implied that he didn't and they've never corrected that impression.

 

Raj: Yeah, no. But yet, here you two are, still together. And that’s even after you and I had our crazy naked night.

Leonard: Okay.

Penny: That’s enough.

 

I guess we will see Penny at some point tell Sheldon that she and Raj didn't really have sex, after all it means nothing (aka no big deal) to Sheldon and he won't care one way are the other. Then maybe Sheldon will be over his selective secret lost thingy and tell Leonard since Penny can't tell him.

[SRAM]

I guess we will see Penny at some point tell Sheldon that she and Raj didn't really have sex, after all it means nothing (aka no big deal) to Sheldon and he won't care one way are the other. Then maybe Sheldon will be over his selective secret lost thingy and tell Leonard since Penny can't tell him.

The Sheldon will belittle Leonard and tell him " see it wasn't what you think" you were wrong again Leonard. As Leonard stands there in surprise, because Penny only tells her secrets to Sheldon.