Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[SodidIwin?]

To a group of people well over the age of 21? Big deal. Raj would still be whispering into Howard's ear in order to communicate. The others made the decision to drink on their own free will, way too old to claim peer pressure. 

 

I sure as hell don't hang out with people who engage in casual sex (thanks for the assumption), but Penny does. Howard had more stories than Penny ever will, Raj had a few (Sailor Moon anyone?) and Leonard has had Leslie, Joyce, Priya (initially, Stephanie arguably began the same way), almost Alice, you get the point. They formed into relationships, but began with casual sex. I get that you hold them to a different standard because they're guys, but she's really no worse than them in that regard. 

Don't forget in Episode 1.06 The Middle Earth Paradigm – Raj has casual sex with the girl in the butterfly costume. Also, in episode 2.20 The Hofstadter Isotope – Raj picks up a women at a bar when he goes with Leonard and Howard. He makes out with her at the bar and wakes up in bed with her with a smile on his face. Some people like to pick apart Penny's life but conveniently let slide what the guys do on the show. 

[djsurrey]

To a group of people well over the age of 21? Big deal. Raj would still be whispering into Howard's ear in order to communicate. The others made the decision to drink on their own free will, way too old to claim peer pressure. 

 

I never said she was some villain. At the point I entered the conversation it had been stated that others besides Penny and particularly Sheldon had gotten drunk on several occasions. My point was and is Penny's drinking is different from that of the others. Her "magic potion" that makes her like Sheldon. Sheldon on the other hand on many occasions disproves of drinking so that he and others can keep their minds clear.

 

The comment on peer pressure was from Amy. I included it simply to point out that it appeared that the first drink Amy took was offered by Penny. It is simply evidence that Penny introduced alcohol to others. Not a big deal but Amy like Sheldon first gets drunk after being given a drink by Penny.

Edited March 10, 2014 by djsurrey

[gsxdoug]

We just had the best Lenny moment of the season this past Thursday. What's with all the trashing of the Penny character? I see her as a basically nice girl who makes the occasional bad decision...just like a real person. The jokes about her drinking are just that; jokes. Sometimes the negativity in this thread borders on the ridiculous.

[djsurrey]

We just had the best Lenny moment of the season this past Thursday. What's with all the trashing of the Penny character? I see her as a basically nice girl who makes the occasional bad decision...just like a real person. The jokes about her drinking are just that; jokes. Sometimes the negativity in this thread borders on the ridiculous.

I can't speak for anyone else but for my part I just wanted to keep the facts straight. I like Penny.

[cAntonio Santos]

Penny is now much more grownup on her decisions, she knows Leonard loves her, and she loves him too, so she will discuss any decisions with Leonard that affects them both.

[gsxdoug]

I never said she was some villain. At the point I entered the conversation it had been stated that others besides Penny and particularly Sheldon had gotten drunk on several occasions. My point was and is Penny's drinking is different from that of the others. Her "magic potion" that makes her like Sheldon. Sheldon on the other hand on many occasions disproves of drinking so that he and others can keep their minds clear.

 

The comment on peer pressure was from Amy. I included it simply to point out that it appeared that the first drink Amy took was offered by Penny. It is simply evidence that Penny introduced alcohol to others. Not a big deal but Amy like Sheldon first gets drunk after being given a drink by Penny.

Simply offering an adult friend a drink, if you don't know they are non-drinkers is not peer-pressure. That was Amy's interpretation and she seemed quite willing and happy to partake. She could have said no.

Edited March 10, 2014 by gsxdoug

[DaisyJane]

Simply offering an adult friend a drink, if you don't know they are non-drinkers is not peer-pressure. That was Amy's interpretation and she seemed quite willing and happy to partake. She could have said no.

 

I also seriously doubt Amy was "introduced" to alcohol by Penny considering the fact that she is nearly 40. While she may not have ever been given alcohol by a friend, all you have to do is walk into a restaurant that serves drinks to be offered some. She'd probably had a drink before, just not in that atmosphere. 

[gsxdoug]

I also seriously doubt Amy was "introduced" to alcohol by Penny

Yup, same goes for Sheldon. Penny may have gotten him drunk once, but that doesn't excuse him for other times; Thanksgiving comes to mind.

Edited March 10, 2014 by gsxdoug

[Chrismo]

Penny is now much more grownup on her decisions, she knows Leonard loves her, and she loves him too, so she will discuss any decisions with Leonard that affects them both.

I'd like to think that but last week was the first time she has done that. Maybe that's why Leonard got her the car.

[Tensor]

I never said she was some villain.

No, but your strongly implying that. By saying if Penny hadn't introduced them to alcohol(you still haven't explained how all of them somehow managed to never hear about alcohol before meeting Penny), they would never had had anything to drink.

 

At the point I entered the conversation it had been stated that others besides Penny and particularly Sheldon had gotten drunk on several occasions. My point was and is Penny's drinking is different from that of the others.

The reason those statements were made the way they were, was because they were in response to the accusation that Penny was an alcoholic, because they showed her blacked out drunk. That was the reason she was considered an alcoholic because, because of that one time. That's why it was pointed out the way it was. If Penny was considered a drunk because she blacked out that one time, why weren't Amy and Sheldon considered alcoholics, when they were blacked out drunk. Or do you agree one time is all that's needed?

 

Her "magic potion" that makes her like Sheldon.

The one that Leonard asked for? Oh, wait, Penny introduced it too him, her fault.

 

Sheldon on the other hand on many occasions disproves of drinking so that he and others can keep their minds clear.

Whether or not he disapproves, except for when he was tricked, he drank of his own free will. You said Penny talked him into it? If so, why couldn't Penny talk him into it when she offered him a Cuban Libre? Not to mention this is the same Sheldon that scoffs at Penny for her intelligence, yet somehow, even when he disapproves of drinking, he somehow allows her to talk him into doing something he disapproves of? And he really turned that beer down from Bernadette's father, or is that time Penny fault too?

 

The comment on peer pressure was from Amy. I included it simply to point out that it appeared that the first drink Amy took was offered by Penny.

Yes, offered, not forced. I still don't get your point. My dad had beer around the house when I was 10 in the mid sixties. Do that make him responsible for night I got drunk six years ago?

 

It is simply evidence that Penny introduced alcohol to others.

Are you claiming until Penny came along, none of these men and women had ever heard of alcohol. That's what it sounds like.

 

Not a big deal but Amy like Sheldon first gets drunk after being given a drink by Penny.

Yeah, because when Penny offered, she held them both down and forced it down their throats. Bad Penny.

[gsxdoug]

You go Rick!

[Nogravitasatall]

I find the some of the critique of Penny surprisingly unsophisticated and reactionary. Its C21 and she is a grown up exercising her rights in a free country. When she does something actually evil, let me know. LOL . So far she's been an adult finding her place in the world. She has made a few mistakes along the way, but she has, so far as I know, never acted with malice. Unlike some of her fellows.

[3ku11]

Lool these eggheads are very intelligent, just because you can argue Penny brought the culture into thr group, which is true. Does not mean she is soley responsible for changing anyones mindsets regarding alcahol. They are all fully formed adults, who most likely most of their life have been either social outcasts, or socially inept. Offering someone a drink, is very different to forcing it down someones throat, it is as simple as that. Remember bk in s1, Penny was practising her cock tails, as she just gt work at a bar/ccf. The guys other then sheldon seemed pretty fine with drinking it, their was no delay or hesistance. Im sure even as geeks while studying they drank its all part of the culture. Being eggheads doesent make it a pre-requisette to going Alcahol? Whats liquid? My perfectly formed brain cannot accept any new information, its already atom this, nuetron this. We dont actually eat too, were a special type of species, were too smart to eat or drink, ordo anything really as we have had a textbook glued to our facea since birth. So when this gorgeous girl offered a drink, or brang in that culture, i was like Alcahol cannot compute, system overload lol.

Point is their seems to br some trying to punish Penny for her lapses of judgement while under alcahol when she was younger, point i was making with s4 wheb they went out. Is that was the season she was drinking alot to deal with leonard and priya, but she restrained herself and actually had a good nighyt without alcahal, amy gt drunk haha. Just saying Penny showed signs she was growing up, ppl just wont forgive her fot s4 finalie, and almost use thay as a point of rrf for her susposed drinking problem. Not once sincr has she done something or someone haha stupid while under the influence, i mean shes nt as bad as charlie hatper haha. She learnt alot from that, and to be fair the drunken slut has bern a common thing in sitcoms, its just more a throwaway joke from the writers, in reality Penny hasent had that many lapses of judgement while drinking. You wanna blame anyone, blame society, like i said its a culture, but culture has ideas and values its how you choose to deconstruct them to apply to your mindset, lifestyle etc. Penny aint their parents, they wanna drink theyre gonna drink, they aint innocent, Raj slept with that chick in S1, Leonard has slept with 4 or 5 women etc.

Just saying some seem to think theirs a certain set of rules for Penny, but seem to ignore the guys aint that innoccent too. Go back to s5, the girls were going out and talking about one night stands, and Penny was actually the level heades one, when she was like "Yeah but its not a great idea, you end up regretting it". Bernies the one who actually immaturity that maybe a s1 penny would of shown. Point is while in the past penny has done pretty silly things, post S5, She has grown up alot, so i dont think its fair to keep using it as a reason to justify that she has a drinking problem, because tbh i wont lie she still likes a drink everynow and then, but iys more refined now, people need to move on from s4 finalie.

Edited March 10, 2014 by 3ku11

[Nogravitasatall]

@3kull, there seems to be an inclination to claim the nerds as innocents corrupted. I hesitate to make biblical comparisons but Penny sometimes gets framed as an archetypal figure. Id prefer that she was rather considered as a version of "Columbia", the female manifestation of the United States, which is kinder and maybe closer considering Penny's affection for popular culture and her representation of the ordinary person.

[djsurrey]

No, but your strongly implying that. By saying if Penny hadn't introduced them to alcohol(you still haven't explained how all of them somehow managed to never hear about alcohol before meeting Penny), they would never had had anything to drink.

 

The reason those statements were made the way they were, was because they were in response to the accusation that Penny was an alcoholic, because they showed her blacked out drunk. That was the reason she was considered an alcoholic because, because of that one time. That's why it was pointed out the way it was. If Penny was considered a drunk because she blacked out that one time, why weren't Amy and Sheldon considered alcoholics, when they were blacked out drunk. Or do you agree one time is all that's needed?

 

 

Well I never said any of them were alcoholics. Really I was simply pointing out that Penny's drinking is and has been different than the others. In particular Sheldon normally avoids alcohol and does not even care for it. Penny on the other hand has frequently turned to alcohol as a coping measure. I don't write the show. I am quite sure though they write Penny for the sake of humor and not to make her come across as a bad person.

[djsurrey]

Whether or not he disapproves, except for when he was tricked, he drank of his own free will. You said Penny talked him into it? If so, why couldn't Penny talk him into it when she offered him a Cuban Libre? Not to mention this is the same Sheldon that scoffs at Penny for her intelligence, yet somehow, even when he disapproves of drinking, he somehow allows her to talk him into doing something he disapproves of? And he really turned that beer down from Bernadette's father, or is that time Penny fault too?

 

I think we all know Penny offered Sheldon a drink to calm his nerves. He drank it only because he thought he would faint otherwise. He said it did not work so she offered him another. Others in the group were at the table to support Sheldon. The only person who thought to offer him a drink to calm his nerves was Penny.

[Tensor]

Well I never said any of them were alcoholics. Really I was simply pointing out that Penny's drinking is and has been different than the others. In particular Sheldon normally avoids alcohol and does not even care for it. Penny on the other hand has frequently turned to alcohol as a coping measure. I don't write the show. I am quite sure though they write Penny for the sake of humor and not to make her come across as a bad person.

 

No but you're the one the is somehow claiming it's Penny's fault Sheldon got drunk.  Was it the Raj's and the bartenders fault he got drunk at Howard's bachelor party?  After all, Raj provided the alcohol, the bartender  offered Sheldon the drink, and Sheldon thought it was social convention.  Or was it Bernadette's father's fault Sheldon got drunk, after all, he offered Sheldon a drink and convinced him to drink the first beer?  If not, how exactly are those different?  

[djsurrey]

Yes, offered, not forced. I still don't get your point. My dad had beer around the house when I was 10 in the mid sixties. Do that make him responsible for night I got drunk six years ago?

 

The point here I thought was clear enough. I did not mean to imply Penny was doing something wrong here. It was Amy that used the term peer pressure just before handing over her glass. This was when Amy still idolized Penny like some like some high school girl who wanted to be like the popular girl. All I am saying here is that it was clearly Penny who introduced Amy to alcohol. I don't think I have to explain how that could be possible since I don't write this stuff.

Edited March 10, 2014 by djsurrey

[djsurrey]

No but you're the one the is somehow claiming it's Penny's fault Sheldon got drunk.  Was it the Raj's and the bartenders fault he got drunk at Howard's bachelor party?  After all, Raj provided the alcohol, the bartender  offered Sheldon the drink, and Sheldon thought it was social convention.  Or was it Bernadette's father's fault Sheldon got drunk, after all, he offered Sheldon a drink and convinced him to drink the first beer?  If not, how exactly are those different?  

 

So far as we know this is the very first time that Sheldon had any alcohol voluntarily. The point was of all the people at the table only Penny thought to talk him in to it. Any one of them could have tried to slow him down. They preferred to have a laugh at his expense. So much for his C-men.

 

I agree that the bachelor's party was Sheldon's own fault. Frankly I thought his going to the party was OOC. I have never gone to one. One of those cultural things I have rejected.

 

I also think Bernadette's Dad could have and should have suggested to Sheldon he should slow down his drinking. In my opinion this is part of our social responsibility.

Edited March 10, 2014 by djsurrey

[Tensor]

Well I never said any of them were alcoholics.

I never said YOU did. I said someone else posted that Penny was an alcoholic because she had no memory of the previous night. Sheldon and Amy were used as an example of others who couldn't remember the previous night, so the question was should those two be considered as alcoholics? You brought up how it wasn't right to compare them, but if not, then why, if being blacked out is considered as being an alcoholic, don't those Amy and Sheldon times count?  

 

 

Really I was simply pointing out that Penny's drinking is and has been different than the others.

There aren't very many examples of her drinking heavily, or alone During the run of the show. So, I'm not quite sure why she is singled out, as being different, when other characters of the show have done the same thing she has.

 

In particular Sheldon normally avoids alcohol and does not even care for it.

Drinking because he thinks its going to prevent him from fainting isn't using alcohol as a coping mechanism?

 

Penny on the other hand has frequently turned to alcohol as a coping measure.

Frequently? The only two I can recall, are sometime within a few days of ending up in bed with Raj, and getting drunk after her part got cut. The rest of the time, it's not so cut and dried. I'm even willing to give you the night she knocked on Leonard's door, but its not clear there whether she was drinking because she was trying to cope or she just had too much at the party.

The point here I thought was clear enough. I did not mean to imply Penny was doing something wrong here. It was Amy that used the term peer pressure just before handing over her glass. This was when Amy still idolized Penny like some like some high school girl who wanted to be like the popular girl. All I am saying here is that it was clearly Penny who introduced Amy to alcohol.

If you didn't mean to imply she did something wrong, why bother to even bring it up?

[Tensor]

So far as we know this is the very first time that Sheldon had any alcohol voluntarily. The point was of all the people at the table only Penny thought to talk him in to it.

Do you have an alternative to him fainting? And how is "Here, Drink this, it will relax you"(which is actually true) and after he declines saying "Fine Faint" is talking him into it.

 

Any one of them could have tried to slow him down.

If they knew his reaction, they probably would have. Well, except Leoanrd, he wasn't at the table.

 

They preferred to have a laugh at his expense. So much for his C-men.

Ya know, there's nothing that shows them laughing, at the dinner. Or, are you suggesting they knew ahead of time, what would happen?

[djsurrey]

I never said YOU did. I said someone else posted that Penny was an alcoholic because she had no memory of the previous night. Sheldon and Amy were used as an example of others who couldn't remember the previous night, so the question was should those two be considered as alcoholics? You brought up how it wasn't right to compare them, but if not, then why, if being blacked out is considered as being an alcoholic, don't those Amy and Sheldon times count? 

 

I don't think Sheldon and Amy could be considered alcoholics based on the way they have been portrayed on screen on TBBT. They have both done a night here or there of binge drinking but I think this has been very infrequent.

 

If this is true is it still possible that they could drink enough do have no memory of events; to  have blacked out? I don't actually know.

[Tensor]

I don't think Sheldon and Amy could be considered alcoholics based on the way they have been portrayed on screen on TBBT. They have both done a night here or there of binge drinking but I think this has been very infrequent.

If this is true is it still possible that they could drink enough do have no memory of events; to have blacked out? I don't actually know.

I don't think Amy or Sheldon can be consider alcoholics either. That was what I was trying to say. If the criteria used to determine Penny was an alcoholic is forgetting what happened while she was drinking, why weren't Amy and Sheldon considered alcoholics, since they had nights where they couldn't remember what happened.

I admit to being imprecise. To me, black out drunk is the same as not remembering what happened the previous night. Passed out drunk is when someone passes out and either can or cannot remember. When younger, there were a couple of times I didn't remember parts of a night. I never passed out.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Tensor

[djsurrey]

There aren't very many examples of her drinking heavily, or alone During the run of the show. So, I'm not quite sure why she is singled out, as being different, when other characters of the show have done the same thing she has.

 

I think we have seen Raj drinking to cope. Drinking to talk to woman could be considered doing this. I think he has also done it when he has messed up. Raj is/was an odd case. He always became a jerk when drinking. It clearly worked against him.

 

My impression is that there have been not only examples of Penny drinking heavily but she has made many references to drinking a lot too. Others on the show have made references to her drinking. It seems clear to me that she has done a lot of heavy drinking.

Edited March 10, 2014 by djsurrey

[djsurrey]

Drinking because he thinks its going to prevent him from fainting isn't using alcohol as a coping mechanism?

Yes. He was not only reluctant but he would never have done this, or even have thought of it, if not talked into it. Who talked him into it?