Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[3ku11]

What do you think? Is Leonard going to cheat on Penny? I read this spoiler for the first time, so please don't kill me for that question. That freaks me out because i want Leonard and Penny together.

 

http://bit.ly/18dymSg

 

Link shortened.

I think that article is a bit misguided and misinformed, it refers to the first episode where as we know the taping report has come and gone, and the taping report for the second episode reveals Leonard returns early to surprise Penny, and Lenny is stronger then ever, so no Leonard is not going to cheat on Penny lol. I think the writers have made it clear they well end up together, and the difference with Lenny now is they are working through their issues, and Penny and Leonard are learning to trust each other. When Penny felt insecure about Alex even though Leonard has shown to be compltely oblivious to her, she showed she does have insecurities, Leonard showed how much he is devoted to Penny, and since then Lenny have worked through any issue that has come along, opposed to Season 3 Penny would hulk out, or Leonard would push to much or not enough, theirs alot more trust and honesty in their relationship now and alot more compromise espeically from Penny. I think that article is refering to the movie prob need to do their research, but prob haven't read the taping report.

Edited August 31, 2013 by 3ku11

[Guest]

I think that article is a bit misguided and misinformed, it refers to the first episode where as we know the taping report has come and gone, and the taping report for the second episode reveals Leonard returns early to surprise Penny, and Lenny is stronger then ever, so no Leonard is not going to cheat on Penny lol. I think the writers have made it clear they well end up together, and the difference with Lenny now is they are working through their issues, and Penny and Leonard are learning to trust each other. When Penny felt insecure about Alex even though Leonard has shown to be compltely oblivious to her, she showed she does have insecurities, Leonard showed how much he is devoted to Penny, and since then Lenny have worked through any issue has come along, opposed to Season 3 Penny would hulk out, or Leonard would push to much or not enough. I think that article is refering to the movie prob need to do their research, but prob haven't read the taping report.

 

Oh god, thank you for this. I didn't know something about that Taping Reports. It's a little bit difficult to keep up-to-date, because i am german and every source says something different. And my english is not the best. So thank you for your clear words!

[Fruit Loop]

I think it was established in 5x02 though that Penny and Raj did NOT have sex, Raj said they diddn't have sex in the tradadtional manner, remember Penny said oh god you diddn't put some indian hudu crap on me did you haha. I think it was implied their was kissing and stuff but Penny passed out, and they just woke up in the same bed not that it matters any more. Leonard was pretty good about it, apart from their first date on the 100th ep he brought it up, but Penny must of been really really really drunk and really really really really really missing Leonard to even get herself in that position in the first place. And as for the progress of Lenny I have enjoyed the slow place, thats the point of relatonships in sitcoms, it brings more storylines if they drag it out, I have enjoyed watching Penny mature and getting to the point were her feelings grow for Leonard. It's riduclous to complain she is not where she was in S1, as much it as riduclous to say Leonard woulden't be happy about a sober Raj

 

 

The Question is, WHAT CONSTITUTES SEX??

 

Bill Clinton said he didn't have Sex with that woman..................

 

They didn't have Intercourse, BUT.   Penny was helping Raj put a condom on when he had an orgasm. Had Raj been able to function they would have completed the act. I am sorry but Penny and Raj had a form of sex in the fact they touched each others private parts.

 

So Leonard has every right to feel worried. To me, Sleeping with a friend of your partner is the worst slap in the face. It being disrespected by two so called friends.

 

 

.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Fruit Loop

[3ku11]

The Question is, WHAT CONSTITUTES SEX??

 

Bill Clinton said he didn't have Sex with that woman..................

 

They didn't have Intercourse, BUT.   Penny was helping Raj put a condom on went he had an orgasm. Had Raj been able to function they would have completed the act. I am sorry but Penny and Raj had a form of sex in the fact they touched each others private parts.

 

So Leonard has every right to feel worried. To me, Sleeping with a friend of your partner is the worst slap in the face. It being disrespected by two so called friends.

 

 

.

Actually I dont think it even went as far as putting condoms on at all, it was implied their was kissing and stuff but both passed out. And come on give Penny and Raj the benefit of the doubt, Penny was really really really drunk and had no idea what she was doing, plus she was missing Leonard. I blame the writers for this tacky pointless storyline, as it was delt with in the S5 premeire. And how the Raj have an organism without the other party? I think it was established their was no functioning from Penny and Raj at all, and I dont think it is a slap in the face at all Penny diddn't do it on purpose she was really messed up, if I blame anyone it is Raj he was lonely and you could argue took advantage of Penny emotional state not physically, but he shouldent been in that position in the first place. But this is 2 seasons ago, the writers should have never gone their, as the ep later Penny was the most embarassed she had ever been, it's in the past now.

[ArmyGirl]

You need to go back and watch Season 5 Premiere......  it seems you missed what was said.

 

 

Actually I dont think it even went as far as putting condoms on at all

 

Here is the clip: 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpeMMR01AnA

Edited August 31, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Zhalen565]

"I had trouble putting it on, you tried to help, that's all she wrote"

Pretty clear where her hands were.

[3ku11]

Yeah I.never said Penny and Raj never got to that point, I just meant I dont remember if it was established if that was the case. In Penny's drunken state in the morning after she obviousley diddnt remember anything, at that point Penny could of slept with anyone she was really drunk and messed up over Leonard, and Raj was lonely in the moment it happened, Penny obviousley passed out and woke up the next morning. Penny and Raj made a stupid error of judgement and a huge mistake, but it was delt with and settled with in the first ep of S5 , when Penny was trying to let down Raj gently when he thought theu were a thing now haha , and after that its almost like it diddnt happen because afterall it diddnt, and besides it only happenced once so its best to give Penny the benefit of the doubt, seeing other then Lennys date in the 100th ep when Leonard brought it up, status quo resumed ep 2. The final scene in S6 when Raj could talk really showed the real relationship between to. So other then very bad writing and a storyline that was pointless and meaningless, it had no lasting effect on the characters or the show, it was two seasons ago it was unique circumstances and Penny was not in a lupid state of mind, besides in the end they just slept in the same bed after passing out and woke the next morning. Penny is a completley different person now and was really in a emotional wears then, its in the past

[rickfromillinois]

Actually I dont think it even went as far as putting condoms on at all, it was implied their was kissing and stuff but both passed out. And come on give Penny and Raj the benefit of the doubt, Penny was really really really drunk and had no idea what she was doing, plus she was missing Leonard. I blame the writers for this tacky pointless storyline, as it was delt with in the S5 premeire. And how the Raj have an organism without the other party? I think it was established their was no functioning from Penny and Raj at all, and I dont think it is a slap in the face at all Penny diddn't do it on purpose she was really messed up, if I blame anyone it is Raj he was lonely and you could argue took advantage of Penny emotional state not physically, but he shouldent been in that position in the first place. But this is 2 seasons ago, the writers should have never gone their, as the ep later Penny was the most embarassed she had ever been, it's in the past now.

Raj clearly stated that he "got there early" when Penny was helping him put on a condom.   I am sorry but I am not one of those who exsuses any behavior because someone was drunk.   If I was gone and my wife got drunk and went to bed with one of my friends, we would get divorced.   You are responsible for your actions, drunk or not.  Same for a so-called friend.  

[terriblewaitress]

"I had trouble putting it on, you tried to help, that's all she wrote"

Pretty clear where her hands were.

 

I don't think they got very far with putting it on if she only tried ha, oh Raj. 

[Zhalen565]

. Snipped.....seeing other then Lennys date in the 100th ep when Leonard brought it up,

A date that was all in his head, showing he thought they had slept together " I'm sorry I slept with you best friend". Then a raj brings it up in 601 and 612.

[ArmyGirl]

A date that was all in his head, showing he thought they had slept together " I'm sorry I slept with you best friend". Then a raj brings it up in 601 and 612.

 

Yep, Raj brought it up and not once did Penny come clean about nothing happening.

 

Just think if the writers wanted to clear the air all they had to do is the quick draw joke and had Penny break it down of what happen.

Edited August 31, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Tensor]

Yeah, I understand resposibility. But how was Penny cheating on Leonard? Leonard was living with Priya. Leonard was having sex with Priya in Raj's bed(even before he moved in with Priya). Leonard was dating Priya even though Raj disapproved. Leonard was in a relationship, Penny was not, she could sleep with whomever she wanted.

Now, before all the Leonard fans jump up and down on me, I am not condemning Leonard. I'm just pointing out that, considering Leonard's situation and his actions, there is no reason to condemn Penny and Raj, for what the did.

[ArmyGirl]

Yeah, I understand resposibility. But how was Penny cheating on Leonard? Leonard was living with Priya. Leonard was having sex with Priya in Raj's bed(even before he moved in with Priya). Leonard was dating Priya even though Raj disapproved. Leonard was in a relationship, Penny was not, she could sleep with whomever she wanted.

Now, before all the Leonard fans jump up and down on me, I am not condemning Leonard. I'm just pointing out that, considering Leonard's situation and his actions, there is no reason to condemn Penny and Raj, for what the did.

 

And Raj was a big hypocrite during the time Leonard was dating Priya.  He had no problem trying to get with Sheldon's sister (Missy) just like Leonard and Howard.  So for me Raj had no right opening his mouth or anything else where Leonard was concerned when his sister decided she want to date Leonard.

 

Raj is a snake in the grass and we have many examples to lead one to believe this.

 

 

eta:  Please don't get me started about him lusting after Bernie.

Edited August 31, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[I.Am.Molly]

Ahh. The Raj thing. This is one thing that I actually can't bring myself to jump to Penny's defence on like I usually would! That whole thing was just a little much for me. I don't necessarily blame either character more than the other, although if pushed I would say Raj was more at fault. The world and his mother knows just how, almost obsessed, Leonard was with Penny for those years and for him to do that when he knew the effect it would have on Leonard was just wrong. Not that I'm letting Penny off the hook. She, for the same reason should have stopped what she was doing before it escalated into the bedroom. AND LEONARD'S BEDROOM! Smh. That could quite possibly be the worst part. Penny really screwed up that one. She should have known how much it would hurt Leonard, whether he was in a relationship or not, to do that with his friend.

Its a matter of principle really, and I do see some situations where it wouldnt be as bad. If Leonard didn't care for Penny as much as he did or if Raj wasnt such a close friend to him, it would have been easier to stomach, but I don't hold it against either of them.

It was a bad decision on the writers part and I do think they could have handled the situation after it alot better too. I would have loved to see Leonard get angry about it. He was dating Priya, I know, so he really had no right to get mad, but at the same time he did. The fact that his ex could sleep with one of his best friends, especially when that ex had to know how much he probably still cared for her, is just wrong. Especially in his bed! I think the writers could have played it better. Maybe make Penny a little more apologetic in front if Leonard and Leonard a little less willing to forgive. It could have even been done in a comedic way where in the end Penny tells him of Rajs lack of self control and it could have almost been a little joke between them.

So yeah. I didn't like that whole thing at all, but like I said I hold the blame with the writers and I think even they know they screwed that one up a bit. It has barely been mentioned since and I'm pretty thankful for that!

[Chiara]

While I think I understand where the frustration with Raj is coming from, maybe we should all relax a little about what happened.

 

Leonard was single. Priya was single. They had every right to do whatever they wanted.

Penny was single. Raj was single. They had every right to do whatever they wanted. 

Leonard and Priya slept together in her brother's bedroom ? Not cool (mostly because unhygienic)

Raj and Penny slept together in Leonard's bedroom ? Not cool (mostly because unhygienic).

As Tensor wrote, nobody was "wronged" in this whole scenario. Poor decisions were made, apologies and forgiveness were presented and granted when appropriate (Raj apologised for not telling Penny sooner about what had really -not- happened, she forgave him and even agreed to keep his secret). 

 

Raj did not like Leonard sleeping with his sister ? As an only child, I can only go by hearsay and television but from what I gather some men do not to enjoy anyone sleeping with their sisters. In my opinion, it is absolutely ridiculous and outdated but apparently not uncommon. Furthermore, he did not do anything to stop it. He whined and moaned about it but failed to act in a way he knew would put an end to the relationship (i.e. rat his sister out to their parents).

Raj tried to seduce Sheldon's sister ? Sheldon, unlike many TV brothers, seems not to give a rat's nethers what his sister does with whom unless it is a matter of genetic excellence.

Raj fantasised about Bernadette ? He did not act on it. A fantasy is just a fantasy. Back in the days when Leonard Hofstadter was still called David Healey, he had a "dream" about his girfriend's mother Roseanne... The human mind is an endlessly strange and interesting world. 

 

Please do not get me wrong. I do not think of Raj as some innocent lamb who has never done wrong. He has many faults : egocentrism, shallowness, an acute case of first world problemtitis, etc. However, and forgive me if my assessment is incorrect, it appears to me that a large percentage of the vitriol directed at him is due to a possibly misplaced desire to make him pay for the pain he caused Leonard. In my opinion, the former did not hurt the latter more than the latter hurt the former. 

The characters have moved on. Perhaps we should too.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

I totally agree with the people who say that we shouldn't blame Penny for it, she was blitzed out of her skull, extremely depressed, and most importantly she was not in a relationship with Leonard at the time. I do think Raj is to blame though. Penny went from being depressed about screwing things up with Leonard to sleeping with his friend? I highly doubt that it was her idea, and considering that Raj remembered what happened and Penny didn't we can safely assume that Penny had significantly more to drink. In the end Raj took advantage of a very drunk and very depressed Penny.

[Oldnavy]

I think most of us can agree that the way the writers handled the season finale of season 4 was not good.  However, what does it take for us to move past it?

[Chiara]

I think most of us can agree that the way the writers handled the season finale of season 4 was not good.  However, what does it take for us to move past it?

 

"We all make mistakes, let's move on"

Leonard to Penny after she caught him trying his best/worst to get Sheldon to allow him to sleep with Missy - The Porkchop Indeterminacy

[I.Am.Molly]

Oh I've long since moved on from what happened, I was just giving my opinion on that particularly point as I'm sure most others were. It's a difficult point to argue really because everyone has a different vision of the line that shouldn't be crossed. Sleeping (or intending to sleep) with either the friend of an ex, or your exs friend is just a real no go for me and I guess that is why it's really been the only thing that really bothered me in the show.

Since writing the previous post I've decided I would be more, for lack of a better word, betrayed by a friend who went with my ex than I would be at the ex. More willing to forgive the friend though, which I guess is weird. So I definitely think Raj was more at fault here than Penny.

Anyway, it happened. It was a mistake. I get this and I certainly don't let it colour the view I have of Raj and definitely not Penny.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

I think most of us can agree that the way the writers handled the season finale of season 4 was not good.  However, what does it take for us to move past it?

The only solution I can think of involves a time machine and hostage taking.

[ArmyGirl]

The only solution I can think of involves a time machine and hostage taking.

 

Wouldn't have matter Lorre would still have went with Penny and Raj. I mean others did basically tell him it wasn't a good ideal -- since he had final say he went there.  And now it's part of the show's history and can and will be talked about like all other aspects that happened on the show.

Edited August 31, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[SRAM]

I guess as I see it, Penny was not cheating, they were not dating. Raj is more at fault than Penny because he was sober enough to remember what was going on, so he was the best one to stop it, but again if it was a strange guy, she was so drunk she would have done it. Leonard was hurt for many reasons, he still loves her, so seeing her sleeping with 'anyone' is going to hurt, look how he acted about Zack. The guy being his friend felt like a betrayal, plus doing it in his bed was just wrong, and remember Leonard never acted angry with Penny, only Raj.

[rickfromillinois]

Penny may have a good excuse or may not need one at all, BUT being drunk IS NOT a legitimate excuse for someone's actions.  That was the point I was trying to make.   As for it being alright because Leonard was sleeping with Raj's sister,  I think that is being naive about human interpersonal relationships.   There most likely will be problems if your former and now present girlfriend sleeps with one of your friends.   It will place allot of tension in the friendship or the relationship.   In all likelyhood Leonard would have never gotten back together with Penny or slowly dissolved his friendship with Raj.   I doubt that he would be comfortable if Penny and Raj were both in his presence at the same time, and he most certainly would not be pleased if he found out that they spent any time together while he was gone.  If you are presently in a relationship, ask yourself if your other half would be comfortable with you spending any time with someone that you had sex with before you met your partner.  Once again, I know that nothing was consumated, but it was not for the lack of trying on both of their parts.

[Tensor]

I doubt that he would be comfortable if Penny and Raj were both in his presence at the same time, and he most certainly would not be pleased if he found out that they spent any time together while he was gone.  If you are presently in a relationship, ask yourself if your other half would be comfortable with you spending any time with someone that you had sex with before you met your partner.

It's a question of trust. You just have to trust your partner. I mean, look at Johnny and Kaley. Anyone dating either one of them knows they were in a relationship before, with sex as a component; they are still very close friends; and now they not only spend a lot of time together, they spend time together kissing.(and before y'all say anything, as an actor, I know a stage kiss isn't the same thing as a kiss in a relationship, but it can be a problem for some people). Someone going out with either one of them would just have to trust them and get comfortable with it, or they simply break it off. Some people can handle it, others can't.

[Nogravitasatall]

It's a question of trust. You just have to trust your partner. I mean, look at Johnny and Kaley. Anyone dating either one of them knows they were in a relationship before, with sex as a component; they are still very close friends; and now they not only spend a lot of time together, they spend time together kissing.(and before y'all say anything, as an actor, I know a stage kiss isn't the same thing as a kiss in a relationship, but it can be a problem for some people). Someone going out with either one of them would just have to trust them and get comfortable with it, or they simply break it off. Some people can handle it, others can't.

It's also question of how much one is willing to forgive. This set of people are special in that they are fully loaded with a lot of forgiveness. I can't remember which Sunday school lesson particularly covered this situation, but its probably not old testament. I'd love to check Leonard's bookshelves (Kindle) for a copy of Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land". As a group, they grok. And Leonard does have a love for classic science fiction. Maybe he internalised some of the precepts espoused by Valentine Michael Smith when he was young and, I'd guess, voracious for SF.

But for me the whole thing is a dead issue. I don't have to like what happened, as the members of the group have processed the matter, applying their own values and rules. They have now dropped it and moved on. It's no longer a problem for them. Until it comes up again, which I doubt. And it was interesting.

(PS. I'd hope this is not an obscure SF reference to you geeks out there. Heinlein is a giant of SF).

Edited August 31, 2013 by Nogravitasatall