Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[I.H.S.F.C.]

I don't recall her ever declaring herself lazy, the cute comment was a response to her not carrying around cash.

 

That's because you have selective memory.  She has referred to herself as both lazy and a bad waitress at different points in the show.

[SodidIwin?]

That's because you have selective memory.  She has referred to herself as both lazy and a bad waitress at different points in the show.

I know she has said at different times she was a poor waitress for a laugh. However, I don't ever remember the writers having her call herself lazy. Since you indicated it difenitely happened would you please refresh my memory by providing references to those scenes. I appreciate it, thanks.

[DaisyJane]

That's because you have selective memory.  She has referred to herself as both lazy and a bad waitress at different points in the show.

 

Bad waitress I remember just fine, but I don't remember lazy. It seems you only come on this thread to complain or attempt a dig. 

[hokie3457]

How bad of a waitress could she have been (Sheldon's constant complaints should NOT enter onto this). I don't recall her job at TCF being in jeopardy. If she was as bad as that, shouldn't she have been easy to replace?

A little tired of the unending Penny bashing

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[Kasey]

Want to stop the Penny bashing?

 

Don't feed in to it from either side...

[DaisyJane]

How bad of a waitress could she have been (Sheldon's constant complaints should NOT enter onto this). I don't recall her job at TCF being in jeopardy. If she was as bad as that, shouldn't she have been easy to replace?

A little tired of the unending Penny bashing

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Seriously, especially when it's the same old complaints day after day. And a lot of twisting and grasping at straws to make the arguments even remotely logical. 

[Chrismo]

How bad of a waitress could she have been (Sheldon's constant complaints should NOT enter onto this). I don't recall her job at TCF being in jeopardy. If she was as bad as that, shouldn't she have been easy to replace?

A little tired of the unending Penny bashing

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I think part of the "unending Penny bashing" is some who have any kind of criticism of Penny seems to get attacked. My favorite character on TBBT is Penny. But it is difficult to agree with every excuse made for her. Comparing Penny with the guys is like comparing apples and oranges. I am certainly no expert about waitressing but I am guessing there are better waitressing jobs than TCF. TCF IMO probably isn't the best paying. Could be wrong but I'm guessing most don't stay as long as she has.(Bernadette was there for a purpose and then moved on.) In regards to her being lazy I don't recall the exact words being said but that is sort of like a tree falling in the forest. If no one is there does it mean it doesn't make a noise? Penny deciding to quit and devoting herself full time into acting is a good sign. But where was that 10 years ago? It suggests that she wasn't totally into giving her best effort. Laziness? Lack of motivation? I don't know. I think everyone on this thread wants success for her and wants Leonard and Penny to be married. But making an excuse for everything she has done is like putting your head in the sand. In regards to Penny's and the others mistakes I'm not really keeping score. But I still think hers have cost her more than the others.

[Nogravitasatall]

There is no point in criticising Penny. It's fundamental that she be the opposite of Leonard. IMHO. It's crazy love, played over many years.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Nogravitasatall

[SodidIwin?]

There is no point in criticising Penny. It's fundamental that she be the opposite of Leonard. IMHO. It's crazy love, played over many years.

Exactly! It's the nerd falling head over heals for the street smart beautiful girl across the hall. News flash: You don't become street smart being prim and proper!

[SRAM]

There is no point in criticising Penny. It's fundamental that she be the opposite of Leonard. IMHO. It's crazy love, played over many years.

 

That is true, no matter what her faults are she is a loveable character.  She is the beautiful girl with a heart of gold, who can see past the creepy candy coating at the person inside.  Yes she has done all those things, that have been discussed in the previous pages, but those don't define Penny.  Penny is love to Leonard, she the street-smart friend to Bernadette and Amy, she is a sister and sometimes mother figure to Sheldon, and to Howard and Raj she is a shicksa-goddess (I know I spelled that wrong).  Penny is not evil and does not have serious drinking problems, she is the parts that Leonard doesn't have, and he is the parts that she is lacking, and like Stewart says together they make one whole perfect person.

[Martin Pollard]

I think part of the "unending Penny bashing" is some who have any kind of criticism of Penny seems to get attacked.

 

Criticism is one thing. Unfounded criticism is quite another. From what I've seen, it's the latter that tends to get attacked.

[SodidIwin?]

That is true, no matter what her faults are she is a loveable character.  She is the beautiful girl with a heart of gold, who can see past the creepy candy coating at the person inside.  Yes she has done all those things, that have been discussed in the previous pages, but those don't define Penny.  Penny is love to Leonard, she the street-smart friend to Bernadette and Amy, she is a sister and sometimes mother figure to Sheldon, and to Howard and Raj she is a shicksa-goddess (I know I spelled that wrong).  Penny is not evil and does not have serious drinking problems, she is the parts that Leonard doesn't have, and he is the parts that she is lacking, and like Stewart says together they make one whole perfect person.

Beautifully said! Well done!

[Chrismo]

 no matter what her faults are she is a loveable character. 

I agree. Just because I criticize her at times doesn't make her less loveable.

[rickfromillinois]

Translation, it's the ignorance and snobbery of the posters, not the character. Sexism and classism. I figured that one out when the proposed careers were as demeaning as hooker, stripper, and housewife. The guys have engaged in equally stupid behavior, but they're men and not a "lowly" waitress, so it doesn't matter. She is characterized as lazy because she doesn't have a doctorate when she has in fact worked in the often grueling service industry since she was 18. But she doesn't have a "passion", like the guys do television, so it's justified. 

I must strongly disagree with the idea that any criticism of Penny's drinking is ignorance, snobbery, sexism, or classism.  As many times as the guys have displayed stupid behavior, none of them have been shown to over drink as much nor have have as many unfortunate occurrences as a result of their drinking.   In addition, as far as her waitress job goes, she herself has admitted that the was not a good waitress.  I think it is misguided to accuse those who are critical of her drinking of the many slanderous things that you have written.

 

The ones I do hold accountable for the repeated incidents of Penny over drinking are the writers.  IMO by doing so they are denigrating a warm and caring character who is working hard to achieve her dreams.  I sincerely hope that they are done with the whole premise and drop the matter. 

[Nogravitasatall]

I'm really pleased that Leonard is out there as a role model for not so tall guys with glasses who like vintage SF and have the thing going on around their middle. Guys like that need to have someone on doin' it for them on screen. And Penny is the bad girl who is good for him. LOL.

(for a very moderate definition of bad heheheh)

Edited March 10, 2014 by Nogravitasatall

[3ku11]

I wrote a long post then my damn phone froze arghhh lol. But basically points made are; Most likelt Penny skated through life under different expe tations, she got by with her looks, she even gt by when payinh rent with her looks. So she had no reason to expect it would be any diffrent once in the real world, with her looks and/or talent doors are bound to open. But knowing no one within the industry, and having zero to little experience in anything really, breaking in is not that easy. So she did what all Gorgeous 20 somethings do she started to settle. With her comfy apartment, her job at the ccf that gave her a sense od automony, her new friends from across the hall who became like a support network for her particlularly Leonard etc. She got caught up in Love ,(Leonard), being almoat a sisterly and/or motherly figure (Sheldon), being a greek godess haha (Howars and Raj. Then later in being the street smart, cool, independent girl that Amy and Bernie always wanted to be growing up. But now shes at a crossroads in her life, she just got too comfortable, not lazy. She is now making more adult decisions. She is now making serious alterations to her life, and reevaulating her priorities.

Their story is no longer the lonely nerd desiring the hot girl, its now the down on her luck girl, being supported by the guy who despite all intellectual disprarity, and so many differences. Both share an unspoken bond, and whos sames go straight to the bone, as while techniquley they can both do better, they are incomplete without each other, they make each othrr better. Point is Penny offering Sheldon a drink to calm his nerves is not irresponsible, Sheldon is an adult, and as an adult as a fully formed chromosone, fully capable of making an informed decision. The cultute of drinkong has been apart of society for hundreds of years. Say alicia moved on b4 Penny did. Is she now soley responsible for bringing in drinking into the groupnope, its part of societies conventions. Sheldon knows this all too well, as dictated by societies conventions, he has to offer that person a bevarage, what if that person asked for a beer. Is that person now soley responsible for bringing the culture of drinkinh into thr group?

Nope the culture of drinking is all part of socities conventions. So Penny cannot be expected to hold anyones hand, as an adult you are perfectly capable of making your own choices regardless. Like some said Penny never gave me the impression she was part of a frat, hrr drinking never striked me as excessive. Either early on from 18-25 she went out with mates, and depending on the crowd of ppl she would drink a certain amount depending on thecontext. Go bk to S3 and thr football ep, socities conventions dictate drinking is a part of the experience, and Penny had one beer. But if she went out on the town in a less laid back atmosphere, she may drink more, see its all part of the culture, and the ideas and values thst come with it, i dont thibk anyone expects Penny to be responsible for society and its coventions.

Looking at her career, you even saw in S2 Barb Sublim, she was starting to ealizr it takes more then looks and talent to make it, remember she said she was too much of a "type". Tbh getting "discovered" is kinda a lost art, and not knowing anyone within the industry, or not having any connections at all, well not give her any insight into the US Entertainment industry. Maybe shr diddnt push enough early on. Maybe out of fear and rejection out of being typed cast, she got comfortable with her job, friends, lifestyle, securit etc. And its only now shes realized that she came to LA to be an actrrss. But tbh i dobt think it was ever thr acting shr was passionate about, bit stardom, notority etc.

Now shes a bit older maybe shes now motr snarky, less perky becsuse apart from feeling the rings of life, she now understabds the pittfalls now, and if it happens she well appreciate it more. The fact she even got a callback shows the producers of Ncis saw something, and that play. I think Leonards right she cant be picky, build her cv up. Keep doing commercials, and going to auditions. This is Pennnys full time job now, and i think she well get some success, maybe not stardom liks that perky 20 yr old hoped for. But an honest and modest success as an working actress, enough to give her the satisfaction and validity that effects her self worth.

Edited March 10, 2014 by 3ku11

[phantagrae]

I haven't read through all the recent posts, so I can't and won't address the mentioned Penny bashing, but I did see a few comments--I think one does have to view her activities, good and bad, through the lens of the sitcom set-up, not as if the writers were really holding fast to telling a true story.

 

Just as with all the characters, certain aspects of her behavior or her career, etc., are going to be exaggerated for comic effect or played up in a particular episode in order to make a funny point, or to put her in a certain situation for the ensuing comedy.

 

I don't think there's much point in examing how good or bad a waitress she was--and even if you do look at that, she wasn't waitressing as a career choice, but simply as a means to an end.  And I don't think that her not quitting years ago means that she wasn't as dedicated to her career as she is now, but probably, like most people, she was afraid to dive in like that.  If you figure she got that job more or less right when she came to LA,  then she needed to keep it in order to get a start.

And it served the purpose of the storytelling to have her at the CCF--it gave them a certain setting to use for certain things.

But now, they're apparently getting ready to use a different dynamic, and getting her out of that place, and for that specific reason, is part of how her story is evolving.

 

Each of the characters has gone through some life or career changes--Howard went to space, Bernie got her pharmaceuticals job, H/B got married, Raj got over his mutism, Amy and Sheldon are making (slow) progress, Amy moved over to CalTech, Leonard worked on Hawking's project, Sheldon has his splash with that element--so now Penny is going through her changes.

 

Anyway, I also think that her drinking was used as comic fodder, and was never intended to mean that Penny was an alcoholic.  There are people who have a cocktail every night, or who drink wine with dinner more or less every night, or who go out for drinks after work fairly often.  And some like to get drunk at parties.

So, Penny drinks when she's bored, but we've really only seen her very drunk on certain occasions.  She's not drinking herself to sleep every night or passing out or unable to work.

 

But it's something of a Big Bang trope, like Sheldon's knocking, Leonard's asthma, whatever.

 

I don't think any of this stuff is anything to get judgmental about, since it's used in order to tell the story, or to get a punchline, not to hint that Penny needs to go to rehab or anything.

 

I think the writers love her as much as they love the other characters and they're not writing her to be a bad person.

[SRAM]

 

 

I think the writers love her as much as they love the other characters and they're not writing her to be a bad person.

 

 

And that is the bottom line, Amen.

[SodidIwin?]

Our Penny is an actress! And along the way she learned a life's lesson. No job opurtunity is beneath you (within reason) because you never no what the future holds. That opurtunity you just declined because you felt wasn't good enough could be the last one you will ever receive. Respect all job opurtunities and weigh them carefully. Penny is growing up! ...Now propose already!!

[SRAM]

The only thing that bothered me, in the taping report, was when she was going over the script with Leonard, she told him she would be making less, a week, than she did as a waitress, that just doesn't seem true. Tensor, does that sound right?

I sort of wished Leonard would have reminded her that she is getting paid though, so she is a professional actress and starting to make a living off it.

[Chrismo]

The only thing that bothered me, in the taping report, was when she was going over the script with Leonard, she told him she would be making less, a week, than she did as a waitress, that just doesn't seem true. Tensor, does that sound right?

I sort of wished Leonard would have reminded her that she is getting paid though, so she is a professional actress and starting to make a living off it.

In regards to pay. In the real world probably no. In TBBT world probably yes.

[phantagrae]

I think how much she makes depends on how miniscule a budget the film has.

 

I remember Jim saying that his role in Garden State (where he was in knight's armor) paid so little that he didn't think it even covered his rent in NYC.  Now, I think it might have been only one day on set and his rent in NYC might have been fairly high, but I think he implied that it was a few hundred dollars.

 

For a film like Serial Apeist, who knows what they would be paying.  I don't know if they'd even pay union scale (don't know if they'd be required to.)

So, theoretically, it's possible that she could make more working one full-time week at the CCF than she might make on a shoestring budget dog like SA.

[Tensor]

Her pay could be close.   There is a SAG contract for low budget Films.   A weekly performer would receive $938 for five days worth of work.  However, if they are not using her, on set, for five days (to save money for example), she would have to get the daily rate of $268 a day.  If they use her three days, that would be right at $800 for those three days.  If they only need her for two days, she would only get $536.  By the time they take out taxes (or she puts it aside), SAG dues, etc, It very well could be  less than see makes at The Cheesecake Factory.  My daughter is currently making less than she did as a waitress at Outback here in Florida, but she's has a lead role in a show near Orlando.  So, it's quite possible she could get more work from this.  Penny has to look at this as a stepping stone.  And, don't forget, waitresses are required to claim up to a certain amount of their tips (they should report all of it,) and of course, they do (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).   

 

If they weren't paying union scale, Penny couldn't work.  The first and biggest rule in SAG is: As a member of SAG, you don't work non-union jobs, period.  And that includes theatrical jobs, as the unions (SAG, Equity) have reciprocal agreements.  Working on a non-union job, even in theatre, can cause you to get fined, suspended or even kicked out of SAG, which is a major setback if you're looking for a career as an actor.

[phantagrae]

Her pay could be close.   There is a SAG contract for low budget Films.   A weekly performer would receive $938 for five days worth of work.  However, if they are not using her, on set, for five days (to save money for example), she would have to get the daily rate of $268 a day.  If they use her three days, that would be right at $800 for those three days.  If they only need her for two days, she would only get $536.  By the time they take out taxes (or she puts it aside), SAG dues, etc, It very well could be  less than see makes at The Cheesecake Factory.  My daughter is currently making less than she did as a waitress at Outback here in Florida, but she's has a lead role in a show near Orlando.  So, it's quite possible she could get more work from this.  Penny has to look at this as a stepping stone.  And, don't forget, waitresses are required to claim up to a certain amount of their tips (they should report all of it,) and of course, they do (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).   

 

If they weren't paying union scale, Penny couldn't work.  The first and biggest rule in SAG is: As a member of SAG, you don't work non-union jobs, period.  And that includes theatrical jobs, as the unions (SAG, Equity) have reciprocal agreements.  Working on a non-union job, even in theatre, can cause you to get fined, suspended or even kicked out of SAG, which is a major setback if you're looking for a career as an actor.

 

THis is what I was thinking of--I'm a member of the musician's union and the rules are kind of the same, except that union scale varies from state to state, I believe.  Our orchestra is non-union, but we have a master agreement that functions like a union contract, so usually if I get hired for non-orchestra work, they usually pay our symphony scale.

Some orchestras have their own standard scale, so if I get hired by them for a gig, I get their standard rate.

 

Even so, I can make more money in one week of three or four 2.5hr rehearsals and two 2hr performances than I would make in a 36hr week at my day job.  I can make about half my weekly pay with one rehearsal/one performance.

[Tensor]

THis is what I was thinking of--I'm a member of the musician's union and the rules are kind of the same, except that union scale varies from state to state, I believe.  Our orchestra is non-union, but we have a master agreement that functions like a union contract, so usually if I get hired for non-orchestra work, they usually pay our symphony scale.

Some orchestras have their own standard scale, so if I get hired by them for a gig, I get their standard rate.

 

Even so, I can make more money in one week of three or four 2.5hr rehearsals and two 2hr performances than I would make in a 36hr week at my day job.  I can make about half my weekly pay with one rehearsal/one performance.

 

Yeah, if it wasn't a low budget film (I would assume something like Serial Apeist, I would assume a low budget), she would get $859 for a days work (almost as much as a week's work for low budget), or about 3000 for a week.  Since she says she was getting more money at TCF, the low budget rate appears to be in effect for that film.