Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[bhreg]

OK...will add to my dictionary ;-)  Thanks!

 

giant tyrannical baby. Work it out. LOL:)

[Nogravitasatall]

OK...will add to my dictionary ;-) Thanks!

oh, and welcome. And I was sort of quoting Leonard:) I don't really expect it to catch on widely LOL

[phantagrae]

@phanta, well, usually a book has a lead character. We know that this is an ensemble thing now and at the moment Sheldon's story is most interesting for most people. Its not that interesting to me. Maybe I am expressing my regret that the lead is no longer being written as the lead. What used to be the mission statement "our babies ..." is no longer the primary mission. Now the mission is " lets get Sheldon's pants off". I have no interest in watching him pass through his delayed adolescence. Zero. But I do want to see what happens to Leonard and Penny. But its now more about how they serve Sheldon's story.

So they changed the book's contents and left the dust jacket the same. Each week I "read" another installment and find the L/P content more diluted.

I'm totally not in control of it so I just have to endure those bits I don't like to get to the bits I do. Completely reasonable approach. I'm not shouting the show has been ruined. And I'm not jumping into the Shamy thread to decry the situation.

giant tyrannical baby. Work it out. LOL:)

I don't think the "mission statement" of the show was about the smart & beautiful babies. I do think that the Lenny has always been endgame, but it wasn't the only story they set out to tell. So even at the beginning they weren't developing Lenny in every episode. And I don't think that the writers have suddenly decided to change the focus of the story, or that they've diluted the lead character.

While the show is an ensemble piece, it's true that the Big Three are going to have more weight than H & R and their developments.

While they were getting Leonard and Penny to where they are now, Sheldon's stories were more anecdotal. But now that he has a developing relationship with Amy, they've taken some episodes to work on that story.

I don't think they've shifted the focus to getting Sheldon's pants off. They've barely had him kiss his girlfriend.

Even in a novel where there is a main character, you may still have chapters that concentrate on other characters in order to get them to their proper place in the narrative. That doesn't mean that the lead character or characters have been abandoned or diluted or neglected.

At any rate, I'm enjoying where the Lenny relationship is, and I still see growth and pleasure in their relationship, even if it's just the degree to which they are comfortable and at ease with each other. And I do read this thread because I do support the Lenny, even if it's not my priority. I love the Howardette and I am still rooting for Raj to find someone, so they're all interesting to me.

And I guess I can see good things in the small things for Lenny because I'm used to the tiny chips of progress that have defined the Shamy relationship, even now. I mean one Sheldon-motivated kiss in 4 seasons, compared to all the progress in the Lenny over the years, grows patience.

I'm not saying that everyone, or anyone, has I enjoy the other relationships, and I'm not saying anything aainst the Lenny--far from it. I'm just surprised when I read people complaining about there being no progress or no focus on the Lenny when they're focusing on Penny and how her current career situation is impacting their relationship (and overall, in a positive way.)

[phantagrae]

I think the whole Sheldon thing is just to get women to watch the show. Since most (not all) Lenny fans are male it's hard to understand the infatuation that people have with him. he can be funny but IMO he is over used. To me the whole Shamy thing is a chick thing. my first impression of Shamy is why do they have the homosexual and the lesbian together. That's why I have a hard time liking them. viewership is eventually going to go down in my opinion unless Lenny has a more prominent part of the show.

I don't think that they're trying to deliberately court women or encourage them specifically to watch the show. It's not like they're scrounging for ratings or anything.

And what makes you think that Mayim is a lesbian? Do you think they cast her as Amy because they thought she was a lesbian (even though she was married at the time), or that they decided she was a lesbian after she got divorced and so they decided to move the Shamy forward? Really?

That just makes no sense.

[hokie3457]

I don't think the "mission statement" of the show was about the smart & beautiful babies. I do think that the Lenny has always been endgame, but it wasn't the only story they set out to tell. So even at the beginning they weren't developing Lenny in every episode. And I don't think that the writers have suddenly decided to change the focus of the story, or that they've diluted the lead character.

While the show is an ensemble piece, it's true that the Big Three are going to have more weight than H & R and their developments.

While they were getting Leonard and Penny to where they are now, Sheldon's stories were more anecdotal. But now that he has a developing relationship with Amy, they've taken some episodes to work on that story.

I don't think they've shifted the focus to getting Sheldon's pants off. They've barely had him kiss his girlfriend.

Even in a novel where there is a main character, you may still have chapters that concentrate on other characters in order to get them to their proper place in the narrative. That doesn't mean that the lead character or characters have been abandoned or diluted or neglected.

At any rate, I'm enjoying where the Lenny relationship is, and I still see growth and pleasure in their relationship, even if it's just the degree to which they are comfortable and at ease with each other. And I do read this thread because I do support the Lenny, even if it's not my priority. I love the Howardette and I am still rooting for Raj to find someone, so they're all interesting to me.

And I guess I can see good things in the small things for Lenny because I'm used to the tiny chips of progress that have defined the Shamy relationship, even now. I mean one Sheldon-motivated kiss in 4 seasons, compared to all the progress in the Lenny over the years, grows patience.

I'm not saying that everyone, or anyone, has I enjoy the other relationships, and I'm not saying anything aainst the Lenny--far from it. I'm just surprised when I read people complaining about there being no progress or no focus on the Lenny when they're focusing on Penny and how her current career situation is impacting their relationship (and overall, in a positive way.)

I have to disagree with your opening statement. I believe in S 1 that WAS the mission statement. Most of the episodes were directed at moving these two seemingly opposites to that end game that their fans/shippers long for. Even S2 & S3 their story was the main focus, however TPTB discoverer the popularity and possibility of the Sheldon character; again not unlike the Fonzie character in Happy Days.

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[hamerman55]

One of my wishes for this season has actually been fulfilled. They didn't break Lenny up, and they have actually stayed pretty stable. indeed, I agree with Tensor's comment that with respect to Lenny, this season has been about clearing out obstacles to Lenny moving forward. "The Romance Resonace" proved that Penny had never really give up on Leonard during the breakup, and it was very important for Leonard to learn that. Penny is helping Leonard pull away from Sheldon (the episode about the table) as opposed to manipulating him. The contrast between Lenny and Shamy here is significant. The gift of the car cements Lenny as much as a ring, IMHO. The capper was Stuart's statement about why Leonard and Penny really do make the best couple - they make each other better, and make one totally awesome person together. The last four episodes have had some very significant Lenny moments, even though it seems that Sheldon gets more airtime. First, Sheldon and Amy need the airtime as they have so far to go, and quite frankly, make no damn sense. Either Sheldon treating is her rudely and insensitively, as in the train episode, or being practically controlled by her, as in the table episode. Penny and Leonard are good for each other. At times, I don't think Amy and Sheldon are yet. The root of this is that they are a comically dysfunctional relationship, while Lenny makes sense. We've come a long way to get to the point, BTW. I think we Lenny's are straining for the finish line of a proposal, while Shamy hasn't broken a sweat getting out of the blocks yet. To a great degree, the relationship is about what Sheldon wants, just like his situation with Leonard. Amy gets her shots in, but she's really new at this too. I suspect that we will see a lot of Lenny in the last few episodes, as the SIK is about all the Shamys needed to swoon for this season. I just am hoping that we don't have some sort of angst-ridden cliffhanger for Lenny. At this point, it would be just like the writers to send Leonard back to England just as Penny gets a big part in something that ties her down. Having Leonard go to England WITH Penny would be cool, leaving Sheldon to Amy's care. In fact that would be quite excellent, but unlikely as I don't think the writers have the guts to give Lenny that much happiness away from the GTB.

[Chrismo]

I don't think that they're trying to deliberately court women or encourage them specifically to watch the show. It's not like they're scrounging for ratings or anything.

And what makes you think that Mayim is a lesbian? Do you think they cast her as Amy because they thought she was a lesbian (even though she was married at the time), or that they decided she was a lesbian after she got divorced and so they decided to move the Shamy forward? Really?

That just makes no sense.

I have to disagree with your opening statement. I believe in S 1 that WAS the mission statement. Most of the episodes were directed at moving these two seemingly opposites to that end game that their fans/shippers long for. Even S2 & S3 their story was the main focus, however TPTB discoverer the popularity and possibility of the Sheldon character; again not unlike the Fonzie character in Happy Days.

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Hokie is correct. The first three season Lenny was the "mission statement". The show did get more popular (ratings) from season 4 on since bringing Amy on to have a relationship with Sheldon. They totally courted the female viewer. In regards to Amy/Mayim Mayim is just playing a character. I never suggested in real life she was a lesbian. Part of the Amy thing was her attraction to Penny. The other thing and this was questioned even on the show was what was Sheldon's deal? Gay/Straight nobody could tell the first three seasons.

[phantagrae]

Hokie is correct. The first three season Lenny was the "mission statement". The show did get more popular (ratings) from season 4 on since bringing Amy on to have a relationship with Sheldon. They totally courted the female viewer. In regards to Amy/Mayim Mayim is just playing a character. I never suggested in real life she was a lesbian. Part of the Amy thing was her attraction to Penny. The other thing and this was questioned even on the show was what was Sheldon's deal? Gay/Straight nobody could tell the first three seasons.

If you were not suggesting that Mayim was a lesbian, then were you suggesting that Sheldon was being written as possibly gay? Or are you then referring to Jim being gay?

They never hinted that Amy was a lesbian, or tried to make the audience wonder about that. They were having Amy go through a sort of adolescent girl-crush on Penny and kept at it for the shock-value of the laughs it got, but she was also interested in Sheldon well before they became a couple.

And they never tried to imply that Sheldon might be gay, just disinterested in sex altogether.

So I still don't get your comment.

[Chrismo]

If you were not suggesting that Mayim was a lesbian, then were you suggesting that Sheldon was being written as possibly gay? Or are you then referring to Jim being gay?

They never hinted that Amy was a lesbian, or tried to make the audience wonder about that. They were having Amy go through a sort of adolescent girl-crush on Penny and kept at it for the shock-value of the laughs it got, but she was also interested in Sheldon well before they became a couple.

And they never tried to imply that Sheldon might be gay, just disinterested in sex altogether.

So I still don't get your comment.

The way Sheldon was written up was opened to many interpretations. There was no clue based on the first three seasons. Nobody's opinion was right or wrong. But just look at the Shamy thread most people, especially fans of Sheldon and Shamy are women. I'm not sure how that can be disputed. The first three seasons the nerdy guy/hot girl scenario (Lenny) is going to attract more guys. I'm not sure that can be disputed either. Jim being gay has nothing to do with it. Barney's HIMYM disproves that. As I said with Amy it was my first impression not what I think of her now. As @nogravitastall pointed out earlier they changed the book contents and left the jacket on thus diluting them. Since people are Lenny fans on this thread we are not going to like that. Many on this thread think Sheldon and Shamy are just filler. Obviously others would disagree.

[rickfromillinois]

I think the whole Sheldon thing is just to get women to watch the show. Since most (not all) Lenny fans are male it's hard to understand the infatuation that people have with him. he can be funny but IMO he is over used. To me the whole Shamy thing is a chick thing. my first impression of Shamy is why do they have the homosexual and the lesbian together. That's why I have a hard time liking them. viewership is eventually going to go down in my opinion unless Lenny has a more prominent part of the show.

Although the actual actress is not a Lesbian (she is married, has a kid, and does allot of volunteer work for her religion), I could see how someone could see that the CHARACTER might have those tendencies from some of the statements she has made about and to Penny.   I personally don't believe that Amy is.   As for Jim, he may be Gay but I don't see how that carries over into his acting.   I have not seen anything that the Sheldon character has done that would make me think that he was Gay.   So all in all, I don't understand your statement about a homosexual and a Lesbian (isn't a Lesbian also a Homosexual?) being together on the show.

Edited March 31, 2014 by rickfromillinois

[hokie3457]

I know this may sound a little petulant, but can we get back to Leonard & Penny? I know a discussion of Sheldon and how he relates to the couple this season was put forth, but there are plenty of other threads where Sheldon and Amy are being chatted up. Again, sorry for sounding peevish but....more L/P please...

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[Nogravitasatall]

Hamerman55 raises a good point about not having the cliffhanger separation. I'd think a terrific escalating ending would be for Penny to offer to move out with Leonard and for him to be stunned. They could restart next year without actually doing it, but it would be a hopeful thing, and funny, because Sheldon would wet himself.

[Tensor]

Hamerman55 raises a good point about not having the cliffhanger separation. I'd think a terrific escalating ending would be for Penny to offer to move out with Leonard and for him to be stunned. They could restart next year without actually doing it, but it would be a hopeful thing, and funny, because Sheldon would wet himself.

 

Or, the tag for the season finale:  showing Penny and Leonard at dinner, Penny gets down on one knee, pulls a ring out and says "Will you marry me?" Blackout.   

[hamerman55]

The observation, by Bernie I think, in the last new episode was interesting regarding the suggestion that Penny and Leonard hadn't discussed who would move where as a result of career changes. The implication was that she thought they had already done so. This suggests that in her mind, Leonard and Penny were functionally engaged. That is, that is a conversation they should have had given the permanence of the relationship. It seems like we are getting all these subtle and not so subtle signals that Lenny is solid and permanent. There has also been an abrupt shift from the season up to Penny's proposal, and after. As Tensor pointed out, the first half was clearing things out. Now it seems we're evening things up. Penny going all out for her career, the soon to be evened up score for failed proposals, the basic fact that Penny proposed and Leonard didn't reflexively accept is all part of this. Penny is pushing Leonard to defy Sheldon (high time for that!). The relationship is evolving, and Penny and Leonard are getting a little tired of Sheldon. My fear is that if Penny and Leonard move in together, they will be relegated to Howard and Bernadette status, except that Kaley and Johnny are being paid as much as Jim. An interesting conundrum.

[hokie3457]

Nice. Liking these discussions. Thanks!

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[Nogravitasatall]

L/P is nice. They are a nice couple who generally have to rein in the other lunatics. Lol.

[Tensor]

Penny's roping experience comes in handy for that.

[Anita Rez]

The observation, by Bernie I think, in the last new episode was interesting regarding the suggestion that Penny and Leonard hadn't discussed who would move where as a result of career changes. The implication was that she thought they had already done so. This suggests that in her mind, Leonard and Penny were functionally engaged. That is, that is a conversation they should have had given the permanence of the relationship. It seems like we are getting all these subtle and not so subtle signals that Lenny is solid and permanent. There has also been an abrupt shift from the season up to Penny's proposal, and after. As Tensor pointed out, the first half was clearing things out. Now it seems we're evening things up. Penny going all out for her career, the soon to be evened up score for failed proposals, the basic fact that Penny proposed and Leonard didn't reflexively accept is all part of this. Penny is pushing Leonard to defy Sheldon (high time for that!). The relationship is evolving, and Penny and Leonard are getting a little tired of Sheldon. My fear is that if Penny and Leonard move in together, they will be relegated to Howard and Bernadette status, except that Kaley and Johnny are being paid as much as Jim. An interesting conundrum.

I hope Penny and Leonard aren't relegated to Howard and Bernadette status.  I'm hoping something big happens with her acting career and that boosts their storyline.

[Nogravitasatall]

Or, the tag for the season finale: showing Penny and Leonard at dinner, Penny gets down on one knee, pulls a ring out and says "Will you marry me?" Blackout.

Done on Castle s5. So already taken. And man, there have been huge gaps in the schedule. I solemnly affirm that I did not notice this so much last year. And I've been refraining from reading the reports. Still, the lingering sensation is want of satisfaction. I've even had time to stray...

[Tensor]

Done on Castle s5. So already taken. And man, there have been huge gaps in the schedule. I solemnly affirm that I did not notice this so much last year. And I've been refraining from reading the reports. Still, the lingering sensation is want of satisfaction. I've even had time to stray...

 

The huge gaps have happened earlier this year.    Last year, there were two weeks off in January, one in February, Two in March 14, and two in April.  This year there were two in January, two in February, two in March and there will be one in April. 

[hamerman55]

I think the reason why the gaps were more noticeable this year, for me at least, was that the weather was wretched. I also had some personal stuff to deal with (moving my parents to managed care, which went well) and really needed that half hour of the gang. Breaks in the deep winter months suck.

[5Mississippis]

Was just looking at the photos released for The Indecision Amalgamation. From the taping report, love that Leonard reached out to Wil Wheaton to try to make Penny feel better, bolster her confidence. That was very sweet of him. But seeing the photo of the three of them together is, for lack of a better analogy, 'the raspberry seed on my wisdom tooth'. How I would love that Leonard finds out that it was Wil that manipulated Penny with that conveniently similar story at the bowling alley just to win the game. Could just see Leonard flying across the room like he did across the sofa in The Scavenger Vortex with his hands up ready to encircle them around Wil's throat. They could fall behind the sofa and you'd only hear Wil's strangled yelps. Aside from the obvious, engagement and marriage for Leonard and Penny, I'd love for Leonard to find out about Wil's deception and have him go ballistic. Sigh! Good times.  

[SRAM]

Was just looking at the photos released for The Indecision Amalgamation. From the taping report, love that Leonard reached out to Wil Wheaton to try to make Penny feel better, bolster her confidence. That was very sweet of him. But seeing the photo of the three of them together is, for lack of a better analogy, 'the raspberry seed on my wisdom tooth'. How I would love that Leonard finds out that it was Wil that manipulated Penny with that conveniently similar story at the bowling alley just to win the game. Could just see Leonard flying across the room like he did across the sofa in The Scavenger Vortex with his hands up ready to encircle them around Wil's throat. They could fall behind the sofa and you'd only hear Wil's strangled yelps. Aside from the obvious, engagement and marriage for Leonard and Penny, I'd love for Leonard to find out about Wil's deception and have him go ballistic. Sigh! Good times.

It would also be nice for Penny to find out that Leonard stood up to Kurt so she could get her money back, while his so called best friend, the scared cowardly Sheldon, ran away even though he expected Leonard to get beat up.

[Nogravitasatall]

He is the unsung hero of the show.

[SRAM]

I was also just watching the story where Sheldon makes Penny memorize some stuff on his experiment and repeat it to him, that is completely insulting to Leonard.  I like her to understand that too.