Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[rickfromillinois]

For the sake of argument, say that she was as enthusiastic as you would like to think. What does that signify? Nothing, now. At a physical level, nothing, at an emotional level, nothing. They are both aware of their natures and they carry little baggage about this part of their history. I'm at a loss to see how it impinges on their motivations and actions going forwards. I'm not starry-eyed about this either. If they disregard it, why should it come up, particularly as going down a path where this could have consequences would not be in keeping with the tone of the relationship we have seen now established.

I really think this is a dead end.

As I have said in earlier posts, that was Penny then, not now.  Penny made some stupid choices when younger like most other people, although perhaps more then most.    I just don't deny that it happened.  It just shows how much she has grown on the show since meeting the guys across the hall. 

 

As for it being a dead end, if you don't want to talk about it, don't.  Just don't complain because other people do.

Edited September 3, 2013 by rickfromillinois

[ArmyGirl]

Here is Season 6 Bloopers

 

I love where at the end a clip Leonard ask Penny what her last name is and she says 'I don't Know' 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBGL5LUELxQ&feature=player_embedded

[Fruit Loop]

As I have said in earlier posts, that was Penny then, not now.  Penny made some stupid choices when younger like most other people, although perhaps more then most.    I just don't deny that it happened.  It just shows how much she has grown on the show since meeting the guys across the hall. 

 

As for it being a dead end, if you don't want to talk about it, don't.  Just don't complain because other people do.

Being SMART and being EDUCATED are two different things. IMHO Sheldon is an EDUCATED IDIOT or true NERD.

While Penny Made some stupid choices when she was younger, She is not a dummy by any means. Her smarts come out when she Beats the Boys at Chest and Video Games.

.

[SRAM]

Being SMART and being EDUCATED are two different things. IMHO Sheldon is an EDUCATED IDIOT or true NERD.While Penny Made some stupid choices when she was younger, She is not a dummy by any means. Her smarts come out when she Beats the Boys at Chest and Video Games..

The writers try to define a character by the characters actions and what the other characters perceive. Leonard and the girls have stated that Penny is not dumb or stupid, she has done some dumb and stupid things, but so have a the rest of the characters.

[Kasey]

Here is Season 6 Bloopers

 

I love where at the end a clip Leonard ask Penny what her last name is and she says 'I don't Know' 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBGL5LUELxQ&feature=player_embedded

 

 

Love them bloopers.  Oh and the other video with Kaley and Johnny...sooo cute.  Thanks for sharing

[Carlos]

Yeah, I understand resposibility. But how was Penny cheating on Leonard? Leonard was living with Priya. Leonard was having sex with Priya in Raj's bed(even before he moved in with Priya). Leonard was dating Priya even though Raj disapproved. Leonard was in a relationship, Penny was not, she could sleep with whomever she wanted.

Now, before all the Leonard fans jump up and down on me, I am not condemning Leonard. I'm just pointing out that, considering Leonard's situation and his actions, there is no reason to condemn Penny and Raj, for what the did.

 

Tensor: I usually agree with your posts, but not this time. I willnot go as far as saying that Penny was cheating on Leonard, just that she should have used better judgement. If she was as in love with Leonard as she is portrayed to be in that season finale, sleeping with one of Leonard's friends is in poor tast even if she technically had the right to do so. The fact that she was so drunk that she blacked out and didn't remember anything softens the blow (no pun intended) a little bit. In Raj's case, I think that things are a little bit different. He perfectly knew what he was doing, since he isn't shown to be as drunk as Penny, and in my eyes, even if it's not shown, he was trying to take advantage of Penny, because he'd secretly lusted after her for sometime, and also to get back at Leonard for sleeping with his sister, which he had no right to do. Raj jas shown to be a douche, and this is just another example that he is not such a good friend. Maybe it's immaturity, maybe it's something else, but that doesn't excuse his behaviour.

[Kasey]

In that whole Leonard - Penny - Priya - Raj scenario, I think everyone must share some "blame" if you will.  Matters of the heart are difficult alone but add distance, familial bonds and alcohol and no one as above acting like a douche or whatever you want to call it....

[rickfromillinois]

Tensor: I usually agree with your posts, but not this time. I willnot go as far as saying that Penny was cheating on Leonard, just that she should have used better judgement. If she was as in love with Leonard as she is portrayed to be in that season finale, sleeping with one of Leonard's friends is in poor tast even if she technically had the right to do so. The fact that she was so drunk that she blacked out and didn't remember anything softens the blow (no pun intended) a little bit. In Raj's case, I think that things are a little bit different. He perfectly knew what he was doing, since he isn't shown to be as drunk as Penny, and in my eyes, even if it's not shown, he was trying to take advantage of Penny, because he'd secretly lusted after her for sometime, and also to get back at Leonard for sleeping with his sister, which he had no right to do. Raj jas shown to be a douche, and this is just another example that he is not such a good friend. Maybe it's immaturity, maybe it's something else, but that doesn't excuse his behaviour.

I agree.  There was no "blame" on Leonard's part, Penny had broken up with him and he had moved on.   Penny telling Raj what a mistake she made breaking up with Leonard, showing how much she cared for him, then ending up in bed with Raj was just poor judgement on Penny's part and Raj took advantage of her vulnerbility and being drunk.  Although I don't excuse people's actions when they are drunk, what Raj did was just low. 

Being SMART and being EDUCATED are two different things. IMHO Sheldon is an EDUCATED IDIOT or true NERD.

While Penny Made some stupid choices when she was younger, She is not a dummy by any means. Her smarts come out when she Beats the Boys at Chest and Video Games.

.

Some very very very smart people back some very very very stupid decisions.   I have never said that Penny was stupid.  She's not.   I said that she has a history of doing some stupid things.  She has.   She doesn't do those things anymore.   That's one indication that she is smart. 

[Tensor]

I just don't deny that it happened.

No, you're just insisting your interpretation is the only possible correct one, it's not, I don't think her expression is even close to that. I see her expression as puzzled,what the hell are you talking about and how did he get that number, it's not even close." And that is consistent with her next line:

"Okay, Sheldon, you are so wrong. That is not even close to the real number. I’m gonna need a drink over here."

The drink part makes sense from the embarrassed reaction to talking about her sex life prior to that.

And if you want to insist that the line about people seeing her naked is applicable (and BTW, there is no reference to a bar in the line, nor is Bernadette there, Maybe your recollection of the facial expression isn't quite as accurate either) why isn't the line denying the number is correct applicable?

Or the line after Amy asks her if Penny considers herself a slut:

"No! No! No. Let’s just all finish our dinners, okay?"

After definitive denials, she gets contemplative as if she is thinking about it. As if she doesn't consider herself a slut, but does consider the possibility.

[ArmyGirl]

In that whole Leonard - Penny - Priya - Raj scenario, I think everyone must share some "blame" if you will.  Matters of the heart are difficult alone but add distance, familial bonds and alcohol and no one as above acting like a douche or whatever you want to call it....

 

 

Kasey, why should Leonard share some blame in anything that happen.  Penny broke up with him and he was free to see or date whomever he wanted.  Priya want to date Leonard and she was a consenting adult so what part of the blame should she share (I know she wasn't good for Leonard) but it doesn't change the fact that neither Leonard nor Priya caused Penny and Raj to get drunk and sleep together.

 

Raj has wanted to get in Penny's panties since season two (S2E04 Griffin Equivalency) and he didn't give a darn how Leonard felt about Penny.  If some say Penny and Raj were single and could do whatever they want, then it should be said for Leonard to, he was single due to Penny dumping him and the guy did nothing wrong by trying to move on. I know some also say it was Raj getting revenge on Leonard for being with Priya, then it's even more reason to dislike him and he shouldn't be a part of the group anymore and no way in heck should Leonard or Penny have anything to do with him.

 

Leonard didn't push Penny and Raj into doing what they did--- it's all on them.

[Tensor]

Tensor: I usually agree with your posts, but not this time. I willnot go as far as saying that Penny was cheating on Leonard, just that she should have used better judgement. If she was as in love with Leonard as she is portrayed to be in that season finale, sleeping with one of Leonard's friends is in poor tast even if she technically had the right to do so. The fact that she was so drunk that she blacked out and didn't remember anything softens the blow (no pun intended) a little bit.

First off, if you don't agree, that's fine. I don't expect everyone to hold to the same opinions I do. You do a good job of keeping it to the topic.

Yes, she admitted she screwed up, but what she is sure of, AT THAT POINT, is that she has no chance with Leonard. At that point in time, she knew that Leonard and Priya were probably going to India during the summer and that they had moved in together. In her view, Leonard had moved on, and wasn't even interested in her anymore (and remember, even thought Bernadette told her otherwise, she was equating the trip to India with getting engaged). For her, at that point in time, Leonard isn't available, won't be available and exactly how could her having sex with anyone hurt him?

 

In Raj's case, I think that things are a little bit different. He perfectly knew what he was doing, since he isn't shown to be as drunk as Penny, and in my eyes, even if it's not shown, he was trying to take advantage of Penny, because he'd secretly lusted after her for sometime, and also to get back at Leonard for sleeping with his sister, which he had no right to do. Raj jas shown to be a douche, and this is just another example that he is not such a good friend. Maybe it's immaturity, maybe it's something else, but that doesn't excuse his behaviour.

I used to think that there was no problem with Raj, as Leonard gave him permission to bring girls in, and he wasn't too happy that Leonard was in his bed, with his sister. However, I've thought that Raj's betrayal was even bigger than just sleeping with an ex-girlfriend, that he knew still had feelings for his friend. Raj, we know, kept the secret of Priya going back to India from Leonard. But, even after he knew Penny had feeling for Leonard and regretted breaking up with him, He kept that secret from her also. Here's someone who would be very excited about finding out that Priya was leaving. Probably would even think of the possibility of getting back with the guy she regrets breaking up with, and Raj doesn't say anything to her. So while I can excuse Penny, (it's simply a case of we had information the characters didn't, we have to judge the characters by what they knew, not what we knew.), I've come to the conclusion that Raj was even more of a sleazeball than some have called him

Edited September 3, 2013 by Tensor

[terriblewaitress]

Kasey, why should Leonard share some blame in anything that happen.  Penny broke up with him and he was free to see or date whomever he wanted.  Priya want to date Leonard and she was a consenting adult so what part of the blame should she share (I know she wasn't good for Leonard) but it doesn't change the fact that neither Leonard nor Priya caused Penny and Raj to get drunk and sleep together.

 

Raj has wanted to get in Penny's panties since season two (S2E04 Griffin Equivalency) and he didn't give a darn how Leonard felt about Penny.  If some say Penny and Raj were single and could do whatever they want, then it should be said for Leonard to, he was single due to Penny dumping him and the guy did nothing wrong by trying to move on. I know some also say it was Raj getting revenge on Leonard for being with Priya, then it's even more reason to dislike him and he shouldn't be a part of the group anymore and no way in heck should Leonard or Penny have anything to do with him.

 

Leonard didn't push Penny and Raj into doing what they did--- it's all on them.

 

I actually totally agree with this. Apart from the bit about Raj shouldn't be part of the group because I love him to bits and I'm glad that he and Penny (and Leonard) moved past that and realised that none of it was done with the intent to hurt another. I mean, Leonard chose to sleep with and date Priya. Penny (drunkenly) chose to sleep with Raj. They both done these things, nobody is to intentionally blame for the others actions. I would say that Leonard & Penny's break-up is what made Leonard start a relationship with Priya - because he wanted a relationship and Priya was the perfect opposite to Penny to get away from those feelings - which in turn hurt Penny. Penny slept with Zack - the complete opposite to Leonard - but that just didn't work for her anymore - but that hurt Leonard anyway, seeing her with a guy. Each of them did these things, which to me, stemmed from their own breakup, but it wasn't intentional to do that to each other. Does that make sense, it does in my mind but it's crazy up in there  

[ArmyGirl]

......

 

I used to think that there was no problem with Raj, as Leonard gave him permission to bring girls in, and he wasn't too happy that Leonard was in his bed, with his sister. However, I've thought that Raj's betrayal was even bigger than just sleeping with an ex-girlfriend, that he knew still had feelings for his friend. Raj, we know, kept the secret of Priya going back to India from Leonard. But, even after he knew Penny had feeling for Leonard and regretted breaking up with him, He kept that secret from her also. Here's someone who would be very excited about finding out that Priya was leaving. Probably would even think of the possibility of getting back with the guy she regrets breaking up with, and Raj doesn't say anything to her. So while I can excuse Penny, (it's simply a case of we had information the characters didn't, we have to judge the characters by what they knew, not what we knew.), I've come to the conclusion that Raj was even more of a sleazeball than some have called him

 

Raj has always been a sleazeball but the writers tried very hard to cover it up due to him not being able to talk around women.  Even Penny noticed it when he got drunk and Howard told her he was always like that --- so that is why I couldn't believe Penny would go there with Raj.  I truly understood who and what Raj was after S2E03 Griffin Equivalency, yes they writers do everything in their powers to try make us have sympathy for him even though he isn't a nice guy.

Edited September 3, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Tensor]

Does that make sense, it does in my mind but it's crazy up in there

No, it's not crazy, and it makes sense. I just happen to know that's not what happened.

[Zhalen565]

Raj always manipulates any situation to suit himself, never to help anyone else ( only exeption I can think of is looking in on mrs.W). Much as Sheldon irritates, he is a saint at the side of Raj.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Zhalen565

[Occam's Chainsaw]

I used to think that there was no problem with Raj, as Leonard gave him permission to bring girls in, and he wasn't too happy that Leonard was in his bed, with his sister. However, I've thought that Raj's betrayal was even bigger than just sleeping with an ex-girlfriend, that he knew still had feelings for his friend. Raj, we know, kept the secret of Priya going back to India from Leonard. But, even after he knew Penny had feeling for Leonard and regretted breaking up with him, He kept that secret from her also. Here's someone who would be very excited about finding out that Priya was leaving. Probably would even think of the possibility of getting back with the guy she regrets breaking up with, and Raj doesn't say anything to her. So while I can excuse Penny, (it's simply a case of we had information the characters didn't, we have to judge the characters by what they knew, not what we knew.), I've come to the conclusion that Raj was even more of a sleazeball than some have called him

I totally agree, Raj's betrayal of Leonard and Penny is pretty messed up. He withholds information from his friend that he really should have shared, he withholds information from the same friend's ex who just admitted she regrets breaking up with him. And then knowing that both of them really would want to get back together he sleeps with his friend's ex.

 

The only reason anyone likes Raj is because he had that whole sad and damaged thing going on. He's an arrogant, self-centered sleaze, he's a less funny Howard with less concern for his friends. But, because he can't talk to women he comes across as sympathetic even though a lot of his actions are awful. It will be very interesting to see if the writers can stop him from becoming totally unlikeable now that he's over his selective mutism.

[terriblewaitress]

No, it's not crazy, and it makes sense. I just happen to know that's not what happened.

You're just as crazy as I am, of course it makes sense to you 

 

Raj always manipulates any situation to suit himself, never to help anyone else ( only exeption I can think of is looking in on mrs.W). Much as Sheldon irritates, he is a saint at the side of Raj.

I'm sorry I just can't stop looking at your avatar. 

[Zhalen565]

You're just as crazy as I am, of course it makes sense to you 

 

I'm sorry I just can't stop looking at your avatar.

Done to cheer you up when your Package was late, plus the chance to get the pic up first, usually the best ones are already in use.

[Chrismo]

First off, if you don't agree, that's fine. I don't expect everyone to hold to the same opinions I do. You do a good job of keeping it to the topic.

Yes, she admitted she screwed up, but what she is sure of, AT THAT POINT, is that she has no chance with Leonard. At that point in time, she knew that Leonard and Priya were probably going to India during the summer and that they had moved in together. In her view, Leonard had moved on, and wasn't even interested in her anymore (and remember, even thought Bernadette told her otherwise, she was equating the trip to India with getting engaged). For her, at that point in time, Leonard isn't available, won't be available and exactly how could her having sex with anyone hurt him?

 

I used to think that there was no problem with Raj, as Leonard gave him permission to bring girls in, and he wasn't too happy that Leonard was in his bed, with his sister. However, I've thought that Raj's betrayal was even bigger than just sleeping with an ex-girlfriend, that he knew still had feelings for his friend. Raj, we know, kept the secret of Priya going back to India from Leonard. But, even after he knew Penny had feeling for Leonard and regretted breaking up with him, He kept that secret from her also. Here's someone who would be very excited about finding out that Priya was leaving. Probably would even think of the possibility of getting back with the guy she regrets breaking up with, and Raj doesn't say anything to her. So while I can excuse Penny, (it's simply a case of we had information the characters didn't, we have to judge the characters by what they knew, not what we knew.), I've come to the conclusion that Raj was even more of a sleazeball than some have called him

Leonard though did not break up with Priya. While Raj's withholding information was sleazy, I'm somewhat gonna come to his defense. Raj (and Howard) both had a thing for Penny. Most guys in a minute would hook up with Penny. I remember the episode also with Howard when Bernadette was interested in Leonard's work. His line to Leonard was something like you already have the Homecoming queen now you also want the head of the homecoming committee(something like that.). Even at that time Howard would of dropped Bernadette for a "one nighter"  with Penny. All three guys (besides Sheldon) wanted Penny. Raj had the opportunity (and tried) and took advantage. I'm not saying it make it right but I can see where he was coming from.

[Nogravitasatall]

As I have said in earlier posts, that was Penny then, not now.  Penny made some stupid choices when younger like most other people, although perhaps more then most.    I just don't deny that it happened.  It just shows how much she has grown on the show since meeting the guys across the hall. 

 

As for it being a dead end, if you don't want to talk about it, don't.  Just don't complain because other people do.

I guess I'm trying to convey that while it happened and yes it is interesting to pick apart I'm fairly confident it has no predictive effect on where the couple is going. It's also not really in the spirit of the Ship Zones to slag off at one of part of the ship. It's a testament to the good nature of the participants that the discussion remains civil. So while you are welcome to flog this deceased equine, you are also going to have cop the odd note that suggests that this is a fruitless endeavour. And I can complain till I'm blue in the face, as long as I don't attract the ire of our good host. Like Leonard and his imaginings, I cannot imagine a satisfactory conclusion to this discussion. But it's an aspect of the character that is unlikely to give rise to new serious dramatic arcs or create new stories, is my point. You are however entirely at liberty to discuss the count, and the wear and tear on Penny's bits.

Oh, and I have long thought Raj carries a lot of weight for bad acts. He is cute on the outside but with very bleak undertones. A sad puppy that bites.

[eirwinrommel]

No, you're just insisting your interpretation is the only possible correct one, it's not, I don't think her expression is even close to that. I see her expression as puzzled,what the hell are you talking about and how did he get that number, it's not even close." And that is consistent with her next line:

"Okay, Sheldon, you are so wrong. That is not even close to the real number. I’m gonna need a drink over here."

The drink part makes sense from the embarrassed reaction to talking about her sex life prior to that.

And if you want to insist that the line about people seeing her naked is applicable (and BTW, there is no reference to a bar in the line, nor is Bernadette there, Maybe your recollection of the facial expression isn't quite as accurate either) why isn't the line denying the number is correct applicable?

Or the line after Amy asks her if Penny considers herself a slut:

"No! No! No. Let’s just all finish our dinners, okay?"

After definitive denials, she gets contemplative as if she is thinking about it. As if she doesn't consider herself a slut, but does consider the possibility.

On her expression I believe that she's shocked at Sheldon's number, thinks 'It can't be that many.' Makes a quick mental count, and comes up with a number that is higher than she's happy with (whatever that may be) and asks for a drink to calm down.

Edited September 3, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[Nogravitasatall]

On her expression I believe that she's shocked at Sheldon's number, thinks 'It can't be that many.' Makes a quick mental count, and comes up with a number that is higher than she's happy with (whatever that may be) and asks for a drink to calm down.

I may be recanting what I said directly above, but one consequence of this scene is that Penny thinks about herself. She has a moment of reflection and as you say, is discomforted. This runs directly to the conclusion in "the Closure Alternative", where she declaims that she is passionate about Leonard. This is where maybe all that history is packed away for good. There WAS nothing in her life she was passionate about, she previously could not entirely conceive of herself as a good fit for Leonard and her new way of life, and THEN her epiphany occurs and her view of herself, her expectations and her reality become comfortably congruent.

I think the point of Sheldon's count was not the absolute number, but the fact that whatever the number was, Penny was not happy about it. It's all about what she had to face up to. Never an issue for Leonard, mind you.

Thanks erwinrommel, I think I got it.

And you to, rickfromillinois.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Kasey]

Kasey, why should Leonard share some blame in anything that happen.  Penny broke up with him and he was free to see or date whomever he wanted.  Priya want to date Leonard and she was a consenting adult so what part of the blame should she share (I know she wasn't good for Leonard) but it doesn't change the fact that neither Leonard nor Priya caused Penny and Raj to get drunk and sleep together.

 

Raj has wanted to get in Penny's panties since season two (S2E04 Griffin Equivalency) and he didn't give a darn how Leonard felt about Penny.  If some say Penny and Raj were single and could do whatever they want, then it should be said for Leonard to, he was single due to Penny dumping him and the guy did nothing wrong by trying to move on. I know some also say it was Raj getting revenge on Leonard for being with Priya, then it's even more reason to dislike him and he shouldn't be a part of the group anymore and no way in heck should Leonard or Penny have anything to do with him.

 

Leonard didn't push Penny and Raj into doing what they did--- it's all on them.

 

Let us not forget the pact that Howard and Leonard made to Raj that they would not hit on Priya but Leonard did.  Consenting adults aside, Leonard really should have taken Raj's feeling into account with respect to dating his sister.  It's just what's done. 

 

I really don't see where the dislike of Raj is coming from.  Raj has more of a crush on Bernadette than on Penny (except early one when everyone seemed to - even Sheldon if you watch the Pilot again).

 

In any given relationship no one is completely innocent and that was all I was pointing out...

Edited September 3, 2013 by Kasey

[ArmyGirl]

Let us not forget the pact that Howard and Leonard made to Raj that they would not hit on Priya but Leonard did.  Consenting adults aside, Leonard really should have taken Raj's feeling into account with respect to dating his sister.  It's just what's done. 

 

I really don't see where the dislike of Raj is coming from.  Raj has more of a crush on Bernadette than on Penny (except early one when everyone seemed to - even Sheldon if you watch the Pilot again).

 

In any given relationship no one is completely innocent and that was all I was pointing out...

 

You mean like Raj was so hands off with Sheldon's sister Missy.  As for the so called pact with Howard, these are grown up and Priya  has the right to decide who she wants to be with.

 

Who say someone in a relationship is all innocent this is about you trying to place blame at Leonard's feet along with Priya.  You act as if a gun was held to Penny and Raj head to make them jump into bed with each other. And I will say again Raj is a snake!

[Carlos]

I think the point of Sheldon's count was not the absolute number, but the fact that whatever the number was, Penny was not happy about it. It's all about what she had to face up to. Never an issue for Leonard, mind you.

 

 

I totally agree with you wrong or right ( I think it's wrong) the point of the scene is, IMO, to make Penny think, but also to a smaller degree, Sheldon making fun of Penny.