Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Chrismo]

Let us not forget the pact that Howard and Leonard made to Raj that they would not hit on Priya but Leonard did.  Consenting adults aside, Leonard really should have taken Raj's feeling into account with respect to dating his sister.  It's just what's done. 

 

I really don't see where the dislike of Raj is coming from.  Raj has more of a crush on Bernadette than on Penny (except early one when everyone seemed to - even Sheldon if you watch the Pilot again).

 

In any given relationship no one is completely innocent and that was all I was pointing out...

I think there is a certain belief that certain characters(Leonard) cannot do no wrong. Leonard and Priya never should of happened. You can't just criticize Raj for what he did but let Leonard off the hook for what he did. Priya should of also realized that. All of the guys went after Sheldon's sister. Sheldon didn't care till Leonard tried to be a snake and give himself an advantage over the other two. Raj wasn't a snake to Leonard but to Penny.

[Kasey]

You mean like Raj was so hands off with Sheldon's sister Missy.  As for the so called pact with Howard, these are grown up and Priya  has the right to decide who she wants to be with.

 

Who say someone in a relationship is all innocent this is about you trying to place blame at Leonard's feet along with Priya.  You act as if a gun was held to Penny and Raj head to make them jump into bed with each other. And I will say again Raj is a snake!

 

Woah  ..  I didn't say lets crucify Leonard did I?  I just said that you know he's not totally innocent...

[Carlos]

Let us not forget the pact that Howard and Leonard made to Raj that they would not hit on Priya but Leonard did.  Consenting adults aside, Leonard really should have taken Raj's feeling into account with respect to dating his sister.  It's just what's done. 

 

 

 

Absolutely not. It would have been better if Leonard had told Raj, but we cannot forget that it was Raj's sister, not his ex-girlfriend. Brothers may think they have a say in who their sisters date or hook up with , but they don't

[Kasey]

I think there is a certain belief that certain characters(Leonard) cannot do no wrong. Leonard and Priya never should of happened. You can't just criticize Raj for what he did but let Leonard off the hook for what he did. Priya should of also realized that. All of the guys went after Sheldon's sister. Sheldon didn't care till Leonard tried to be a snake and give himself an advantage over the other two. Raj wasn't a snake to Leonard but to Penny.

 

Yeah I don't think that Leonard did anything tremendously wrong but I'm not going to erect a shrine to him either.  And poor Raj you know we need to give him a break sometimes...

[Carlos]

Kasey: In response to the part where you say that you don't know where the dislike for Raj comes from, let me refer you to Tensor's post: 

 

I used to think that there was no problem with Raj, as Leonard gave him permission to bring girls in, and he wasn't too happy that Leonard was in his bed, with his sister. However, I've thought that Raj's betrayal was even bigger than just sleeping with an ex-girlfriend, that he knew still had feelings for his friend. Raj, we know, kept the secret of Priya going back to India from Leonard. But, even after he knew Penny had feeling for Leonard and regretted breaking up with him, He kept that secret from her also. Here's someone who would be very excited about finding out that Priya was leaving. Probably would even think of the possibility of getting back with the guy she regrets breaking up with, and Raj doesn't say anything to her. So while I can excuse Penny, (it's simply a case of we had information the characters didn't, we have to judge the characters by what they knew, not what we knew.), I've come to the conclusion that Raj was even more of a sleazeball than some have called him

 

Edited September 3, 2013 by Carlos

[Kasey]

Absolutely not. It would have been better if Leonard had told Raj, but we cannot forget that it was Raj's sister, not his ex-girlfriend. Brothers may think they have a say in who their sisters date or hook up with , but they don't

 

No they don't nor really should they but you know they do and it's proper for a guy to at least mention it to the brother..

[I.Am.Molly]

You mean like Raj was so hands off with Sheldon's sister Missy.  As for the so called pact with Howard, these are grown up and Priya  has the right to decide who she wants to be with.

 

Who say someone in a relationship is all innocent this is about you trying to place blame at Leonard's feet along with Priya.  You act as if a gun was held to Penny and Raj head to make them jump into bed with each other. And I will say again Raj is a snake!

 

I dont think that is what she is saying at all. While i agree that Leonard had no part to play in the Raj/Penny hookup and shouldn't be blamed for it, i think Kasey makes a fair point in saying that Leonard shouldn't have pursued Priya after agreeing with Raj not to. It was obviously something that bothered him, and as a friend, Leonard shouldn't have went there. And not only did he get with Priya, he got with her multiple times whenever she came to visit behind Raj's back. Btw dont take this like im saying Priya cant date who she wants, all im saying is that Leonard should have taken his friends feelings about the matter into account if he really valued his friendship. Especially in terms of the one night stands. Getting into a relationship is different but those one nights shouldnt of happened.

 

And in regards to Sheldon, it is a completely different matter because he didn't care less who dated his sister until Leonard pointed out why he should. Yeah, Raj can be a bit of a snake, but in saying that you have to admit too that so can Leonard. As much as i love him, he has his faults, just like Penny and just like the rest of them.

[Kasey]

I dont think that is what she is saying at all. While i agree that Leonard had no part to play in the Raj/Penny hookup and shouldn't be blamed for it, i think Kasey makes a fair point in saying that Leonard shouldn't have pursued Priya after agreeing with Raj not to. It was obviously something that bothered him, and as a friend, Leonard shouldn't have went there. And not only did he get with Priya, he got with her multiple times whenever she came to visit behind Raj's back. Btw dont take this like im saying Priya cant date who she wants, all im saying is that Leonard should have taken his friends feelings about the matter into account if he really valued his friendship. Especially in terms of the one night stands. Getting into a relationship is different but those one nights shouldnt of happened.

 

And in regards to Sheldon, it is a completely different matter because he didn't care less who dated his sister until Leonard pointed out why he should. Yeah, Raj can be a bit of a snake, but in saying that you have to admit too that so can Leonard. As much as i love him, he has his faults, just like Penny and just like the rest of them.

 

 

Thanks Molly, you explained me better...

 

 

Oh and woohoo I'm over 2000 posts......

Edited September 3, 2013 by Kasey

[Chrismo]

Thanks Molly, you explained me better...

 

 

Oh and woohoo I'm over 2000 posts......

Ditto

[Nogravitasatall]

You mean like Raj was so hands off with Sheldon's sister Missy.  As for the so called pact with Howard, these are grown up and Priya  has the right to decide who she wants to be with.

 

Who say someone in a relationship is all innocent this is about you trying to place blame at Leonard's feet along with Priya.  You act as if a gun was held to Penny and Raj head to make them jump into bed with each other. And I will say again Raj is a snake!

I think Raj took an opportunity that he wouldn't have had he not been disinhibited by alcohol, and Penny was there too. It's a sad fact that there is no safe level of drinking. They were doomed at the second bottle. They both wanted comfort in familiar and unfamiliar ways. Penny had a history of finding comfort and affirmation like this, Raj was a long way from home and desperately lonely. For me, the point to start judging them is after they resume their faculties. They realised it was a mistake and both behaved honourably thereafter. It was a situation where all the factors lined up. Like a plane crash. Easily avoided in hindsight and never intended.

Raj however does have a predisposition to go to unsavoury places. He and Howard used to reinforce that behaviour in themselves. Less so now, and we will see if he can change himself.

[ArmyGirl]

Yeah I don't think that Leonard did anything tremendously wrong but I'm not going to erect a shrine to him either.  And poor Raj you know we need to give him a break sometimes...

 

Who said anything about a shrine to Leonard?  There is more than enough to call Leonard out on without trying to make him responsible for other actions (i.e. Penny and Raj).

 

Poor Raj my hiney.  In my opinion he is a snake and isn't a nice guy. 

I think there is a certain belief that certain characters(Leonard) cannot do no wrong. Leonard and Priya never should of happened. You can't just criticize Raj for what he did but let Leonard off the hook for what he did. Priya should of also realized that. All of the guys went after Sheldon's sister. Sheldon didn't care till Leonard tried to be a snake and give himself an advantage over the other two. Raj wasn't a snake to Leonard but to Penny.

 

No one every said that Leonard is never wrong.  We just don't believe in trying to blame he for something he didn't do. I read a post of yours that said it was Leonard fault for what happen between Penny and Raj all because he moved on with his life.  Now at first I thought it was a joke but now I know that is what you really thought.

 

Raj has been a snake to most of his friends!

[Chrismo]

Who said anything about a shrine to Leonard?  There is more than enough to call Leonard out on without trying to make him responsible for other actions (i.e. Penny and Raj).

 

Poor Raj my hiney.  In my opinion he is a snake and isn't a nice guy. 

If your going to call out Raj for Penny/Raj thats fine. But then you should call out Leonard for Leonard/Priya. And i haven't seen that.

[rickfromillinois]

No, you're just insisting your interpretation is the only possible correct one, it's not, I don't think her expression is even close to that. I see her expression as puzzled,what the hell are you talking about and how did he get that number, it's not even close." And that is consistent with her next line:

"Okay, Sheldon, you are so wrong. That is not even close to the real number. I’m gonna need a drink over here."

The drink part makes sense from the embarrassed reaction to talking about her sex life prior to that.

And if you want to insist that the line about people seeing her naked is applicable (and BTW, there is no reference to a bar in the line, nor is Bernadette there, Maybe your recollection of the facial expression isn't quite as accurate either) why isn't the line denying the number is correct applicable?

Or the line after Amy asks her if Penny considers herself a slut:

"No! No! No. Let’s just all finish our dinners, okay?"

After definitive denials, she gets contemplative as if she is thinking about it. As if she doesn't consider herself a slut, but does consider the possibility.

I suggest that you watch the episodes again.    It is plain that the numbers were correct, and writing what she said without her facial expressions and tone of voice is meaningless. Her "no's" were anything but definitive.    As for a bar not being mentioned, I suggest that you re-watch that episode too.  They are talking about going out having drinks and dancing.   She was speaking to both Berney and Amy. 

[Nogravitasatall]

I think there is a certain belief that certain characters(Leonard) cannot do no wrong. Leonard and Priya never should of happened. You can't just criticize Raj for what he did but let Leonard off the hook for what he did. Priya should of also realized that.

Hmmm. Is it fair that a brother can control or influence his sister's choices in this area? Also Raj's relationship to Leonard cannot affect Leonard's choices. They are free agents. The heart wants etc. And familial bonds often count for nothing anyway. But it is reasonable to expect some discord and consequences. Leonard may have taken a risk, true, but he counted on his friendship being able to cope with any burden and it did, until disinhibition came out of the bottle.

This all depends entirely on circumstances. Also, I hate to do this, but "Chandler and Monica" are a counterpoint.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[ArmyGirl]

If your going to call out Raj for Penny/Raj thats fine. But then you should call out Leonard for Leonard/Priya. And i haven't seen that.

 

What do they need to be called out for?  For not letting Raj dictate who they can see? The only thing Leonard did wrong if you want to call it that is not telling Raj about him and Priya getting together upfront.

 

I don't know any sister or brother that let another sibling dictate to them who they can be with.  Sure they may listen to them and then make their own choice.

[rickfromillinois]

On her expression I believe that she's shocked at Sheldon's number, thinks 'It can't be that many.' Makes a quick mental count, and comes up with a number that is higher than she's happy with (whatever that may be) and asks for a drink to calm down.

Exactly.  If the number wasn't right on, it was either pretty close or allot higher then she thought before she looked back and did some counting.

[Nogravitasatall]

Exactly. If the number wasn't right on, it was either pretty close or allot higher then she thought before she looked back and did some counting.

Yes. She thought about the size of the number (its not necessary that Sheldon be right). That did have a long term effect on her. She did not want to be that girl. Which goes to her future actions. But Leonard doesn't know and/or doesn't care. He can do math like Sheldon too.

[ArmyGirl]

I dont think that is what she is saying at all. While i agree that Leonard had no part to play in the Raj/Penny hookup and shouldn't be blamed for it, i think Kasey makes a fair point in saying that Leonard shouldn't have pursued Priya after agreeing with Raj not to. It was obviously something that bothered him, and as a friend, Leonard shouldn't have went there. And not only did he get with Priya, he got with her multiple times whenever she came to visit behind Raj's back. Btw dont take this like im saying Priya cant date who she wants, all im saying is that Leonard should have taken his friends feelings about the matter into account if he really valued his friendship. Especially in terms of the one night stands. Getting into a relationship is different but those one nights shouldnt of happened.

 

And in regards to Sheldon, it is a completely different matter because he didn't care less who dated his sister until Leonard pointed out why he should. Yeah, Raj can be a bit of a snake, but in saying that you have to admit too that so can Leonard. As much as i love him, he has his faults, just like Penny and just like the rest of them.

 

Yea, we know Leonard is wrong for wanting to find love and he should only be with someone that all his friends agree on.  Leonard is the only one that has to meet this standard. 

 

I know let take Leonard out and sting him up.

[I.Am.Molly]

What do they need to be called out for?  For not letting Raj dictate who they can see? The only thing Leonard did wrong if you want to call it that is not telling Raj about him and Priya getting together upfront.

 

I don't know any sister or brother that let another sibling dictate to them who they can be with.  Sure they may listen to them and then make their own choice.

 

its not so much them dictating who they can or cant be with. In terms or Leonard and Priya becoming a couple, that is fair enough. Being a couple means there is feelings there and they actually care for one another, but the one night stands shouldn't of happened. I have two brothers, and i would like to think if at some point i became friends with someone who wanted to get with them, and for whatever reason i was uncomfortable about it and asked them not too, and the friend agreed to it, then i would hope nothing was done. Especially when it comes to just hooking up with them. I would like to think that friend would respect my wishes enough not to do anything about it as well as my brother. Of course, developing feelings for someone makes it a whole different ball game, but in the first place, when she was visiting and they were using each other for sex, it shouldn't of happened. That was a shady move on Leonards part.

 

I suggest that you watch the episodes again.    It is plain that the numbers were correct, and writing what she said without her facial expressions and tone of voice is meaningless. Her "no's" were anything but definitive.    As for a bar not being mentioned, I suggest that you re-watch that episode too.  They are talking about going out having drinks and dancing.   She was speaking to both Berney and Amy. 

 

You keep telling people to rewatch episodes as if they havent already. I have watched that episode, and i, as well as most of the people on here agree to what Penny's reaction was. She wasn't nodding along thinking 'yeah that's right' she was trying to work out what the number was as he said it. It isn't 'plain' that the numbers were correct, because most people here disagree with you, which makes me want to ask you to re-watch that episode and see that it is plain to see how confused, flustered and uncomfortable she is.

Yea, we know Leonard is wrong for wanting to find love and he should only be with someone that all his friends agree on.  Leonard is the only one that has to meet this standard. 

 

I know let take Leonard out and sting him up.

 

Oh god. No, this is not what im trying to say at all. I just said in my post there that when it comes to being in a relationship, it is different. If he developed feelings for her and wanted to do something about it, fair enough. He should have, in my opinion, gave Raj a heads up first. Not as in asking for permission, but saying, i have feelings for you sister and i want to see where it goes. He shouldnt, however, have started those one night stands. They had no feeling behind them. He and Priya both knew it was only the the time she was over, so, he shouldn't have gone bback on his word with his friend and slept with her.

 

I love Leonard, but that wasn't right in terms of his friendship with Raj.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

If your going to call out Raj for Penny/Raj thats fine. But then you should call out Leonard for Leonard/Priya. And i haven't seen that.

Except that the two situations are completely different. Leonard and Priya were two consenting adults in a relationship, sure Raj didn't like it, but a lot of that comes down to him liking to control things and some inherent racism toward non-indians. Raj on the other hand took advantage of a very drunk and very depressed Penny. They weren't two consenting adults because Penny was not in a state of mind to give consent.

 

I suggest that you watch the episodes again.    It is plain that the numbers were correct, and writing what she said without her facial expressions and tone of voice is meaningless. Her "no's" were anything but definitive.    As for a bar not being mentioned, I suggest that you re-watch that episode too.  They are talking about going out having drinks and dancing.   She was speaking to both Berney and Amy. 

Exactly.  If the number wasn't right on, it was either pretty close or allot higher then she thought before she looked back and did some counting.

Rick, you can't say anything definitive from facial expressions, and the fact that so many people here disagree with you suggests that it is much more likely you are misinterpreting rather than everyone else. Even if you aren't willing to change your interpretation saying over and over and over that everyone else needs to rewatch it doesn't make you right, just annoying.

[Nogravitasatall]

I.am.Molly. Nup. Screw Raj. But that's preference. Women usually win out over men in such contests between men and their pals and women. Its not pretty but its more likely.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[I.Am.Molly]

I.am.Molly. Nup. Screw Raj. But that's preference. Women usually win out over men in such contests between men and their pals and women. Its not pretty but its more likely.

 

Hmm, maybe its just a gender thing. I'm seeing it all, obviously, from a womans point of view. If my friend asked me to stay away from their brother because they weren't comfortable with the two of us being together, unless i had strong feelings for the guy, i would stay away. You men, always thinking of one thing.   haha

Edited September 3, 2013 by I.Am.Molly

[Nogravitasatall]

Hmm, maybe its just a gender thing. I'm seeing it all, obviously, from a womans point of view. If my friend asked me to stay away from their brother because they weren't comfortable with the two of us being together, unless i had strong feelings for the guy, i would stay away. You men, always thinking of one thing. haha

Men can't keep away from other men's wives, let alone siblings, or friends who are not dating other friends. It is what keeps a large part of the netiverse afloat.

it it what it it.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[terriblewaitress]

Hmm, maybe its just a gender thing. I'm seeing it all, obviously, from a womans point of view. If my friend asked me to stay away from their brother because they weren't comfortable with the two of us being together, unless i had strong feelings for the guy, i would stay away. You men, always thinking of one thing.   haha

 

Molly, I have to tell you something. I almost bought a Diet Coke with your brothers name on it but it doesn't mean anything I swear! Ha ha. 

 

Well, people get protective over those who mean something to them, like siblings or close friends. For Leonard, I imagine he kind of felt protective over Penny and therefore angrier at Raj for betraying him since Raj knows how he cares about Penny, but then at the same time Raj is like oh but he's dating my sister - though Raj never gave any good reasons for why he didn't approve of it. It's all so confusing I don't think there's a bad guy I just thing there were bad things done. 

[Nogravitasatall]

Molly, I have to tell you something. I almost bought a Diet Coke with your brothers name on it but it doesn't mean anything I swear! Ha ha.

Well, people get protective over those who mean something to them, like siblings or close friends. For Leonard, I imagine he kind of felt protective over Penny and therefore angrier at Raj for betraying him since Raj knows how he cares about Penny, but then at the same time Raj is like oh but he's dating my sister - though Raj never gave any good reasons for why he didn't approve of it. It's all so confusing I don't think there's a bad guy I just thing there were bad things done.

I said ( about 8 months ago) that the interesting thing was how they all behaved afterwards. They came back from melodrama, acted civilised and stepped forward into a now glorious future. No guns drawn or vendettas held. But its fun to gossip about. Leonard is doing a hell of a job of repressing his anger and Penny has apparently forgiven herself. Even the psycho-monkeys in Raj's head have retreated. Just wait till they sit down to a real Christmas dinner. Be prepared to duck.