Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Chrismo]

I was watching a couple of episodes from Season 4 on TBS tonight (they were running a bunch of them back to back) and I found Sheldon was far less obnoxious compared to the past season. There was much less edge to his comments, sarcastic as many of them were. It is like they took the Season 4 Sheldon, and in Season 6 they made him a bit mean and a lot more intrusive. It still needed to be all about him then, but there was a more child-like quality to him.

One episode tonight was the Love Car Displacement, and I hadn't caught before that Penny asked Leonard's forgiveness for breaking up with him. She then suggested that they sleep together. Too bad Raj spoiled it. It was the first time Penny expressed regret for the break up.

Saw Love Car replacement last night too. Actually IMO Raj did them a favor. Obviously for Penny it was spur of the moment. For Leonard it was not.

While I agree with you about what you said about Sheldon, the fact remains IMO there is no Leonard/Penny without him for these reasons:

 

1. There first date- Sheldon pointed out to Leonard Penny didn't reject him he didn't ask him out.

2. The first real date- shroedingers cat

3. The North Pole- Penny can't miss you unless you go.

4. Sheldon told Penny that Leonard was being hit on by Alex.

 

While Sheldon is the most frustrating character on the show in a way Penny and Leonard do need him around. (just not all the time)

[ArmyGirl]

Saw Love Car replacement last night too. Actually IMO Raj did them a favor. Obviously for Penny it was spur of the moment. For Leonard it was not.

While I agree with you about what you said about Sheldon, the fact remains IMO there is no Leonard/Penny without him for these reasons:

 

1. There first date- Sheldon pointed out to Leonard Penny didn't reject him he didn't ask him out.

2. The first real date- shroedingers cat

3. The North Pole- Penny can't miss you unless you go.

4. Sheldon told Penny that Leonard was being hit on by Alex.

 

While Sheldon is the most frustrating character on the show in a way Penny and Leonard do need him around. (just not all the time)

 

If you think about it all it would have taken is Penny talking to Leonard, no middle man.  Penny has never been allowed to really talk about anything of important about her and Leonard and the writers were so pro-Sheldon that he had to insert into the relationship (aka Lenny) more than Leonard at times.  Leonard felt like an afterthought a lot of the time when it can to the relationship to be honest.

 

The latter part of Season Six the writers actually let Leonard and Penny talk to each other and it could have been this way from the get go imo. 

[Tensor]

One episode tonight was the Love Car Displacement, and I hadn't caught before that Penny asked Leonard's forgiveness for breaking up with him. She then suggested that they sleep together. Too bad Raj spoiled it. It was the first time Penny expressed regret for the break up.

Did you notice that she specified that it was for one night(evidently she did learn from her mistake in The Lunar Excitation" and Leonard still took it as a sign the were getting back together. I do like Penny's plaintive "You still mad at me for that?"

[Chiara]

While Sheldon is the most frustrating character on the show in a way Penny and Leonard do need him around. (just not all the time)

He is indeed an integral part of their relationship. However, it has been quite interesting to see them spend more and more time away from him in season six when, three years before, they might as well have called themselves a threesome considering the Lenny was barely ever separate from Sheldon.

 

That does work both ways. At various times Penny is quite obviously uncomfortable, with any kind of movement forward with commitment. Here, reports indicate she seems to be quite happy with him living there, for several days. This is not to say that she would have let him move in permanently, but it gives her a chance to get used to the idea of her and Leonard living together.

Oh absolutely !There is no doubt in my mind that missing Leonard has, once again, allowed Penny to rethink her relationship with him and his return makes her giddy enough not to ruminate over his offer to stay at her place, 24/7, for a couple of days. That is usually the rule with them; as long as they do not overthink their relationship, they are fine.

 

That being said, this instance of Leonard being confident enough to let himself in coupled with what we know of this season's third episode could be indicative of a wider trend. The writers may be tempted to follow through with the idea they first explored in The Egg Salad Equivalency :  Leonard getting increasingly more secure while Penny is losing some of her self-assurance/aloofness. I for one would love to see that play out.

Not just because there is comedic value in Leonard struttin' around like he is 5'6'' and taking control of the relationship for a while but also because it cannot possibly last...

 

In the interview they gave for the season six DVD bonus, Mr. Galecki and Ms. Cuoco called Leonard a "fighter" with a "stubborn heart". I agree wholeheartedly but would go on step further and say that Leonard is, for lack of a better word, a bit of a masochist. While in the very early days of the show, the writers did not give much explanation as to why he was so willing to let Sheldon abuse him, over the course of the following years, they have provided Leonard with enough of a backbone and devious mind (when need be) for the pushover theory not to compute.

Leonard is not just a lovely, sweet, forgiving, intelligent and caring man : he can also be petty, passive-aggressive, revengeful, obstinate and insulting. He has been shown to be capable of biting back. So why does he not do it all the time ? My guess is that, no matter how much he may protest, he loves being around tough-to-please, difficult people (I believe he has Mommy Dearest Beverly to "thank" for that).

 

The writers have shown this tendency of his time and time again :

- They could have kept Sheldon's craziness  "hidden" from Leonard during their first meeting (The Staircase Implementation), thereby implying the latter was duped into believing he was moving in with a normal guy and subsequenly trapped in an accidental cohabitation/friendship with a controlling man-child. They did not. "Die Sheldon Die !" was as clear a foresign as there ever was and Leonard still moved in;

- They could have had Leonard show interest in really sweet, loving, agreeable and caring women while he was "waiting" for Penny. They did not. Leslie and Pryia were extremely domineering and Stephanie was... What is the polite word ? Manipulative ? 

"The heart wants what the heart wants" and Leonard's heart, as described by TPTB, wants people who crack the whip from time to time. He has boundaries, of course, and gives as good as he gets when he reaches his limit. But one has to face the fact : he is not a victim; he is kinky, in a way. 

 

While I believe theirs has always been a much more balanced relationship than it seems (they both love and depend on each other equally), there is no point in denying that Penny has the official control of the Lenny couple : she determines its pace and intensity. This season's first couple of episodes could be seen as foresigns of a power shift, so to speak, between them. If so, it should be funny to see it unfold. I believe Leonard would enjoy it tremendously for a while... Until he realises that he sort of misses a more aloof, controlling, bossy Penny who does not always answer to his "I love you" with an "I love you too" but sometimes with an "I know" ("Thank you" is not acceptable though).

 

 

(It had been a while since I last wrote such an overly long post... I do apologise). 

[ArmyGirl]

......

One episode tonight was the Love Car Displacement, and I hadn't caught before that Penny asked Leonard's forgiveness for breaking up with him. She then suggested that they sleep together. Too bad Raj spoiled it. It was the first time Penny expressed regret for the break up.

 

I also think this is episode that Leonard finally got that Penny didn't want to get back together with him and that it was time to move on. I know that most hated Priya for being with Leonard, I didn't hate her so much as disliked her for trying to change Leonard but I do admit the relationship did help Leonard grow and that is always a good thing.

[I.Am.Molly]

I know that most hated Priya for being with Leonard, I didn't hate her so much as disliked her for trying to change Leonard but I do admit the relationship did help Leonard grow and that is always a good thing.

 

Priyas a bitch  haha! But i agree she was needed. Although i dont know if it was more to help Leonard grow, because i dont see that he really changed all that much in being with Priya, although that is just my opinion. He did try to be a little more dominant i guess in telling Priya she had to tell her parents about him, but in the end he still stayed with her even when she didn't. I think Priyas purpose was more to show Penny getting upset over the fact that Leonard was moving on before her. And hat did need to be shown in the show so as much as i dont like Priya and tend to stay away from the episodes that she is in, i know she was there for a reason and i guess im glad she was. Still dont like her though.

 

The writers have shown this tendency of his time and time again :

- They could have kept Sheldon's craziness  "hidden" from Leonard during their first meeting (The Staircase Implementation), thereby implying the latter was duped into believing he was moving in with a normal guy and subsequenly trapped in an accidental cohabitation/friendship with a controlling man-child. They did not. "Die Sheldon Die !" was as clear a foresign as there ever was and Leonard still moved in;

- They could have had Leonard show interest in really sweet, loving, agreeable and caring women while he was "waiting" for Penny. They did not. Leslie and Pryia were extremely domineering and Stephanie was... What is the polite word ? Manipulative ? 

"The heart wants what the heart wants" and Leonard's heart, as described by TPTB, wants people who crack the whip from time to time. He has boundaries, of course, and gives as good as he gets when he reaches his limit. But one has to face the fact : he is not a victim; he is kinky, in a way. 

 

 

Agree with everything you said in this post. He's a little freaky our Leonard. A loveable little freak. haha!

[Chrismo]

He is indeed an integral part of their relationship. However, it has been quite interesting to see them spend more and more time away from him in season six when, three years before, they might as well have called themselves a threesome considering the Lenny was barely ever separate from Sheldon.

 

 

 

 

 

You have to consider though it was Penny and the guys the first three years. Raj couldn't talk and Howard was a bit of a "pervert". Sheldon was sort of a natural choice for her to confide with. She was part of their world then.

[terriblewaitress]

I think Priya was a bit like Emily in FRIENDS. (Obsessed? Maybe. Bite me.) Disliked the character, but saw the use of them. With Priya, it just made me root for Lenny even more. Same with Emily... that British chippy just made me want Ross and Rachel back together. I'm sure Priya would have been more likeable if she was used before Leonard and Penny had a relationship - but because it's after they had broken up and at a time when Penny was actually showing feelings and stuff, it was easier to just dislike Priya. 

 

Leonard really doesn't know how much of a ladies man he is ha ha! 

[Chrismo]

I think Priya was a bit like Emily in FRIENDS. (Obsessed? Maybe. Bite me.) Disliked the character, but saw the use of them. With Priya, it just made me root for Lenny even more. Same with Emily... that British chippy just made me want Ross and Rachel back together. I'm sure Priya would have been more likeable if she was used before Leonard and Penny had a relationship - but because it's after they had broken up and at a time when Penny was actually showing feelings and stuff, it was easier to just dislike Priya. 

 

Leonard really doesn't know how much of a ladies man he is ha ha! 

It also helped that Amy points out Priya presence. She ran to Penny to console when he heard about Leonard/Priya. Came up with ideas to "get" Priya. Many observations and Fan fictions point to Bernadette but Lenny's biggest supporter was Amy.

[eirwinrommel]

You have to consider though it was Penny and the guys the first three years. Raj couldn't talk and Howard was a bit of a "pervert". Sheldon was sort of a natural choice for her to confide with. She was part of their world then.

A 'Bit' of a pervert? That's like saying Sheldon is a 'bit' of a control freak. BTW. Am I the only one who can't believe it took Howard that long to think of his 'special' use if the robotic hand?

Edited September 8, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[mjc45]

Did you notice that she specified that it was for one night(evidently she did learn from her mistake in The Lunar Excitation" and Leonard still took it as a sign the were getting back together. I do like Penny's plaintive "You still mad at me for that?"

that was in your story too.(chew toy)

had to wacth that episode again.

[rickfromillinois]

It also helped that Amy points out Priya presence. She ran to Penny to console when he heard about Leonard/Priya. Came up with ideas to "get" Priya. Many observations and Fan fictions point to Bernadette but Lenny's biggest supporter was Amy.

I never had the impression that Amy was supporting Leonard, but was consoling Penny.

[ArmyGirl]

I never had the impression that Amy was supporting Leonard, but was consoling Penny.

 

I agree, Amy didn't even care for Leonard at this time.  It was all about Penny and Penny only.

[Chrismo]

I never had the impression that Amy was supporting Leonard, but was consoling Penny.

 

I agree, Amy didn't even care for Leonard at this time.  It was all about Penny and Penny only.

I think you misunderstood my point. By Lenny I meant Leonard/Penny. Penny never had a problem with Leonard/Priya until Amy pointed it out.  Amy's the reason Penny ended up hating Priya. There was never a need originally to console Penny.

[Nogravitasatall]

Amy hasn't been so pro-Leonard. "like a dog boy" was pretty Sheldonic and rather awful. I'd weigh in on the pro-Penny only side of this assessment.

[terriblewaitress]

Penny never had a problem with Leonard/Priya until Amy pointed it out.  Amy's the reason Penny ended up hating Priya. There was never a need originally to console Penny.

 

I think she did, she didn't seem all that happy when Priya was introduced to her at the restaurant. Penny was just very insistent on not showing that it bothered her but Ames was there for her bestie and knew she wasn't all that happy about it. 

[Chrismo]

I think she did, she didn't seem all that happy when Priya was introduced to her at the restaurant. Penny was just very insistent on not showing that it bothered her but Ames was there for her bestie and knew she wasn't all that happy about it. 

This also goes back to the raiders episode. Bernadette in truth or dare asked something about why L/P hang out together still. Penny was ok withthat question but Amy did ask if he such a great catch how will you react if he finds someone new. Penny stormed off after that. More my point was for whatever reason Amy kept the Lenny possibility alive.

[3ku11]

Regardless of other factors, people's opinions and influences e.t.c Amy, Pria, and Sheldon. At the end of the day they choose by themselfs to be together. Imo no one impacted Leonard and Penny's decision to get back together, Amy is the one who revealed that Penny broke up with Leonard, not because she didd'nt have deep feelings for Leonard, but at that point was not ready for a serious commitment. When they broke up at that time it was for the best, Penny had to do what was right for her, and Leonard had to grow a bit to get to the point where they are now in their relationship, both almost equals now. That was Amy's role in Lenny, my point was Leonard was still the one in the 100th ep to not awkwardly ask Penny out, or try to justify why he is asking Penny out, but actually be straight with Penny for once. And since then Leonard and Penny have worked this time because 1. Penny is not hulking out and pushing Leonard away when issues come around and 2. Leonard is not pushing or resisting, he is now challenging Penny alot more, and because of this Penny is compromising more, and learning to trust Leonard alot more and theirs alot more honesty between them now. It's alot more stable now, they are working on their relationship now. And ever since Leonard received the ILY, it has given him that sense of security with Penny that he has never had in the past with, and I think with Pryia and more recently Alex, Penny was revealed to have insecurities even she diddn't realize she had. So she basically pushed Leonard away in the past because she was scared of loosing him, and she had intimacy issues. The ep to me which showed that Penny is compromising alot more, and putting Leonard first is the spoiler alert ep, Leonard wanted to move in, even though she freaked out haha, she was willing to compromise her intimacy issues to make Leonard happy. And the car scene in S6 finalie I thought the ILY was more important, because this time it was delieberate, and it was more intimate.

Edited September 9, 2013 by 3ku11

[Tensor]

I think she did, she didn't seem all that happy when Priya was introduced to her at the restaurant. Penny was just very insistent on not showing that it bothered her but Ames was there for her bestie and knew she wasn't all that happy about it. 

 

 

Not only that, but watch Penny as she sits with Amy in the guys apartment during dinner that night.  She is visibly upset.   And while Amy mentions how she was sorry for her earlier cattiness towards Priya,  Amy knew Penny was upset and why.

[Chiara]

I never had the impression that Amy was supporting Leonard, but was consoling Penny.

I believe that is one of the most consistent aspects of the girls posse dynamics displayed on the show : the girls have one another's back. They have their own friendship, separate from their respective romantic attachments.

 

Now, on occasions, there may be a clash (the parking space episode was a demonstration of that) but ultimately the girls' allegiance is to one another, not to the guys or to the 'ships as entities.

So when Amy encouraged or pushed for the Lenny in season four, it was out of concern for Penny herself who she knew missed Leonard. When Penny mentioned to Bernadette the possibility of looking elsewhere after Howard messed up, she was not trying to destroy the Hernadette (?) but attempting to find a way for her friend no longer to be miserable. And in this season's premiere, Bernadette will encourage Amy to "shop around" not out of dislike for the Shamy but out of empathy for her friend who, she thinks, might be happier with somebody else than Sheldon. 

 

It is a rather moving side of their interactions, as a matter of fact. They take one another's happiness to heart, regardless of the boys. They exist as a separate group, not just as the guys' girlfriends/wives.

[hamerman55]

I believe that is one of the most consistent aspects of the girls posse dynamics displayed on the show : the girls have one another's back. They have their own friendship, separate from their respective romantic attachments.

 

Now, on occasions, there may be a clash (the parking space episode was a demonstration of that) but ultimately the girls' allegiance is to one another, not to the guys or to the 'ships as entities.

So when Amy encouraged or pushed for the Lenny in season four, it was out of concern for Penny herself who she knew missed Leonard. When Penny mentioned to Bernadette the possibility of looking elsewhere after Howard messed up, she was not trying to destroy the Hernadette (?) but attempting to find a way for her friend no longer to be miserable. And in this season's premiere, Bernadette will encourage Amy to "shop around" not out of dislike for the Shamy but out of empathy for her friend who, she thinks, might be happier with somebody else than Sheldon. 

 

It is a rather moving side of their interactions, as a matter of fact. They take one another's happiness to heart, regardless of the boys. They exist as a separate group, not just as the guys' girlfriends/wives.

It is interesting that the girls formed a separate group, as it satisfies the Bechdel test. Usually girl groups in an ensemble sitcom mainly reinforce the various relationships. Here, the girls have each other's back first.

[eirwinrommel]

I believe that is one of the most consistent aspects of the girls posse dynamics displayed on the show : the girls have one another's back. They have their own friendship, separate from their respective romantic attachments.

 

Now, on occasions, there may be a clash (the parking space episode was a demonstration of that) but ultimately the girls' allegiance is to one another, not to the guys or to the 'ships as entities.

So when Amy encouraged or pushed for the Lenny in season four, it was out of concern for Penny herself who she knew missed Leonard. When Penny mentioned to Bernadette the possibility of looking elsewhere after Howard messed up, she was not trying to destroy the Hernadette (?) but attempting to find a way for her friend no longer to be miserable. And in this season's premiere, Bernadette will encourage Amy to "shop around" not out of dislike for the Shamy but out of empathy for her friend who, she thinks, might be happier with somebody else than Sheldon. 

 

It is a rather moving side of their interactions, as a matter of fact. They take one another's happiness to heart, regardless of the boys. They exist as a separate group, not just as the guys' girlfriends/wives

I agree with Bernie, I think Amy would be better off with someone else, but I'm not a writer for the show.

 

Or as Howard put it in season 5 episode 10

Howard: Wait a minute. Are you telling me that Sheldon’s patented blend of condescension and no sex isn’t enough to hold on to a woman?

 

And Penny same episode

 

Penny: Oh, she doesn’t have a boyfriend, she has a Sheldon.

Edited September 9, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[hamerman55]

The writers are in a fix, I believe, with regard to the Shamy. They've amped up Amy's sexuality, and made her more like the girls than like Sheldon. She was quite the distaff counterpart early on. In many ways, she is like Leonard, who puts up with Sheldon for no obvious reason. Sheldon is clearly miserable without Amy, yet is so poorly suited to have a relationship with a girl.

On the other hand, if one assumes that Leonard and Penny are a permanent couple, they can have a lot of fun with them. It is entirely possible that the scavenger hunt episode, once knitted together, could be a classic with Leonard and Penny on opposing teams. We only saw the obvious Sheldon and Penny pairing, but if they are clever, the really fun stuff occurred off-camera. It won't take much to light up Penny's insecurities, after Leonard's four months away. The taping reports probably don't convey how lonely Penny really was. We'll have to see the episode to get a better idea. I think the key is that Leonard and Penny are now defined as permanent going forward. If there is clear doubt, then that pushes the writing in another direction.

[Nogravitasatall]

I'm just liking "permanent going forward". Am indifferent otherwise. As long as Amy doesn't suffer. .

[3ku11]

The writers are in a fix, I believe, with regard to the Shamy. They've amped up Amy's sexuality, and made her more like the girls than like Sheldon. She was quite the distaff counterpart early on. In many ways, she is like Leonard, who puts up with Sheldon for no obvious reason. Sheldon is clearly miserable without Amy, yet is so poorly suited to have a relationship with a girl.

On the other hand, if one assumes that Leonard and Penny are a permanent couple, they can have a lot of fun with them. It is entirely possible that the scavenger hunt episode, once knitted together, could be a classic with Leonard and Penny on opposing teams. We only saw the obvious Sheldon and Penny pairing, but if they are clever, the really fun stuff occurred off-camera. It won't take much to light up Penny's insecurities, after Leonard's four months away. The taping reports probably don't convey how lonely Penny really was. We'll have to see the episode to get a better idea. I think the key is that Leonard and Penny are now defined as permanent going forward. If there is clear doubt, then that pushes the writing in another direction.

The central premise of the show as far as I am concerned was established in the Pilot or even the 2nd episode, when Leonard was like "Our babies well be smart and beautiful". To which Sheldon replied not to mention imaginary lol, not sure if that was later on though. And Sheldon's references "Your the one who invited her to lunch four years ago, everything  about her is on YOU". The writers IMO have made no reservations or exceptions to the fact, Leonard and Penny are destined to end up together. The first two seasons finalie were all Lenny based, S1 finalie Leonard asking out Penny, and finding out their is something their, schinlder cat theory. S2 finalie Penny realizing the depth of her feelings for Leonard. Kaley has always been Pro Lenny, she even said she want's a Leonard and Penny marrage in Season Ten. Leonard and Penny now being defined as permanent going forward, is like Ted revealing the mother in HIMYM, it is inevitable. Just the tangents and variables can change along the way, well Lenny be at linear pace, or well they disrupt what's their, and resist for the "Well they or won't they" scenario they did with R and R from Friends. Personally I hope they push, I want Leonard and Penny to be together to the end of the series, obviousley have issues and challenges they have to face as a couple, but ultimately work through those issues together, and become stronger as a consequence. This has never been a show about nerds and a group of anti-social people, this has been a show about people who just happen to be nerds, people who are now re-prioritizing their lifes in order to suit their relationships and their careers. I think Lenny are in a much better place now then they were in S3, S3 Penny then just diddn't trust Leonard enough, and made zero-one compromises, now their is alot more give and take between the two. And Penny's ILY in the final car scene was really amazing really, Kaley even said she (Penny) has love phobia and needs to grow up lol, I am sure Kaley loved shooting that scene

Edited September 9, 2013 by 3ku11