Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[terriblewaitress]

Apartment as wardrobe... That is something one never grows out of he he. Also I love that people have quoted that pic in their replies, cuteness repeated plenty as I scroll down! Ah. So excited for what we see this season with those two.

[Nogravitasatall]

The locket just makes me every single time!

it is a lovely pic

[I.Am.Molly]

The locket just makes me every single time!

Yeah, it really is. <3

[gsxdoug]

Thanks for the larger version of this pic, tw. Still would have liked to see one of the L/P reunion, but the anticipation will make the moment that much sweeter.

[SRAM]

I can't help but think, they look so much like a young married couple in that picture.

[mjc45]

 

The locket just makes me every single time! 

they are so cute

[Nogravitasatall]

The locket just makes me every single time!

@i.am.molly, it is very cute.

[3ku11]

@i.am.molly, it is very cute.

She even is still wearing it on the scavenger hunt

[Tensor]

OK, I couldn't resist. Changed my Avatar.

[Nogravitasatall]

OK, I couldn't resist. Changed my Avatar.

yeah, I felt the earth shake here.

[hamerman55]

OK, I couldn't resist. Changed my Avatar.

Beat me to it.

[hamerman55]

I was pondering exactly when it seemed that Leonard grew a backbone with regard to Penny. Was it after the ILY? There was a sea change in the sixth season, where suddenly, Leonard is willing to stand up to Penny and call her on her bs. Clearly after Alex, Penny started to experience jealousy and insecurity while in a relationship with Leonard, so at that point she started to doubt that her beauty was sufficient to hold him. Having just received the Blue-Ray/DVD set of Season Six, I started with the premiere, and Leonard was clearly in the weaker role. In fact, they highlighted the gender reversals. Leonard is serving Penny, and trying to get information about the status of the relationship. In the first episode with Alex, those roles get reversed in the final scene, where Penny serves a plate to Leonard, and is clearly playing the attentive girlfriend. It is obvious that she is doing everything she can to draw him in, with smiles, and facial expressions. It is so opposite of the earlier episodes. Leonard is too oblivious to pick up on it, but after that, the last time he seems weak in the relationship is with regard to Penny's friend from school. After that, he is master of the relationship. I even think that was clear in the episode where Leonard is about to move in with Penny to get away from Sheldon. Penny is not in control, and is willing, in spite of her reservations, to let Leonard move in.

[Chrismo]

I was pondering exactly when it seemed that Leonard grew a backbone with regard to Penny. Was it after the ILY? There was a sea change in the sixth season, where suddenly, Leonard is willing to stand up to Penny and call her on her bs. Clearly after Alex, Penny started to experience jealousy and insecurity while in a relationship with Leonard, so at that point she started to doubt that her beauty was sufficient to hold him. Having just received the Blue-Ray/DVD set of Season Six, I started with the premiere, and Leonard was clearly in the weaker role. In fact, they highlighted the gender reversals. Leonard is serving Penny, and trying to get information about the status of the relationship. In the first episode with Alex, those roles get reversed in the final scene, where Penny serves a plate to Leonard, and is clearly playing the attentive girlfriend. It is obvious that she is doing everything she can to draw him in, with smiles, and facial expressions. It is so opposite of the earlier episodes. Leonard is too oblivious to pick up on it, but after that, the last time he seems weak in the relationship is with regard to Penny's friend from school. After that, he is master of the relationship. I even think that was clear in the episode where Leonard is about to move in with Penny to get away from Sheldon. Penny is not in control, and is willing, in spite of her reservations, to let Leonard move in.

It seems to me Leonard grew a backbone when Penny told him she was insecure about Alex in Egg Salad.

[Chiara]

I was pondering exactly when it seemed that Leonard grew a backbone with regard to Penny. Was it after the ILY? There was a sea change in the sixth season, where suddenly, Leonard is willing to stand up to Penny and call her on her bs. Clearly after Alex, Penny started to experience jealousy and insecurity while in a relationship with Leonard, so at that point she started to doubt that her beauty was sufficient to hold him. Having just received the Blue-Ray/DVD set of Season Six, I started with the premiere, and Leonard was clearly in the weaker role. In fact, they highlighted the gender reversals. Leonard is serving Penny, and trying to get information about the status of the relationship. In the first episode with Alex, those roles get reversed in the final scene, where Penny serves a plate to Leonard, and is clearly playing the attentive girlfriend. It is obvious that she is doing everything she can to draw him in, with smiles, and facial expressions. It is so opposite of the earlier episodes. Leonard is too oblivious to pick up on it, but after that, the last time he seems weak in the relationship is with regard to Penny's friend from school. After that, he is master of the relationship. I even think that was clear in the episode where Leonard is about to move in with Penny to get away from Sheldon. Penny is not in control, and is willing, in spite of her reservations, to let Leonard move in.

I may be completely wrong but it seems to me that Leonard has always had a "backbone". If The Ornithiphobia Diffusion taught us anything, it is that Leonard is perfectly capable of defending himself. After all, he did call Penny stupid, or something to that effect, in front of a stranger.

What has changed over the years is the way the people closest to him react to his displays of character strength.

 

All the way back in season two (The Bath Item Gift Hypothesis), Leonard already had a backbone. He invited himself into Penny's apartment to demand an explanation about her relationship with David and her lack of rationale for not dating him (Leonard). He spotted an inconsistency in Penny's behaviour, put his foot down and was determined to have her justify herself. And then Penny cried. And he melted. Because we all know that when Penny cries, Leonard cries too.

We got a redux of this scene in season six (The Tangible Affection Proof) : Leonard disliked Penny's actions, barged in and demanded she explained her appalling behaviour. And Penny... did. She took his criticism on board and tried her best to provide him with an understanding of her reaction. 

 

I may be mistaken but I believe that, had Penny wept or yelled at him, Leonard would have given up and tried to console/appease her just like he did in season two. The one who changed is not so much Leonard (though he undoubtedly did evolve) but Penny. In the past, she would hide, unconsciously I think, behind tears or anger to deflect any indepth inspection of her behaviour. Now, she is able to absorb Leonard's feelings, even the negative ones, and respond to them appropriately. 

 

Funnily enough, the same trend is observable in Sheldon's responses to Leonard's outbursts. On three occasions, Ernie gave up on his roomate and his weird contract. The first time around (The Staircase Implementation), Sheldon just waited out Leonard who eventually came back and apologised. The second time (The Friendship Contraction), Sheldon had to take action and attempt to force a reconciliation through the medium of pulling the building's main circuit breaker switch. Furthermore, he invented "Leonard's Day", a creation which, while mostly symbolic, showed some willingness to acknowledge his roomate's contribution to his life. Finally, in The Spoiler Alert Segmentation, Sheldon was shown to be clearly distressed by Leonard's absence and, even as they were getting back together (how sweet), he demonstrated a limited ability to alter his behaviour to suit his friend's needs (he blurted out a spoiler but immediately corrected himself by saying it may or may not be true). 

 

Both Penny and Sheldon are growing up, at different paces of course. As they do so, they become more capable to deal with Leonard's feelings and give him more room, so to speak, to exist and express himself.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Chiara

[Tensor]

It seems to me Leonard grew a backbone when Penny told him she was insecure about Alex in Egg Salad.

There was more to it than just that episode. Penny was clearly unsure after saying ILY in 6.08 T43P. But there was still some gender reversal in 6.10 "Fish Guts". The big moment to me for the reversal was 6.11 "The Santa Simulation". Leonard specifically turns down an offer of sex with Penny to play D&D. That was unprecedented in their relationship. And, after turning down a chance at sex, the world didn't collapse on him. Then Penny admitting that she was insecure just added to it. That led to him initiating sex, again unprecedented. The relationship started changing when Penny said ILY, and led to the huge change symbolized by those two episodes. Although there was still a bit of insecurity by Leonard in "Egg Salad". It became quite obvious in "Tangible affection" as to who was in charge. I don't think it was just the scene in Penny's apartment that was big, it was Leonard telling Penny that the disaster at the restaurant was her fault, and then admitting, out loud, that she was a bitch.

[Chrismo]

I guess I was incorrect about Leonard having a backbone before Egg Salad.  While Penny was stating that she had insecurities because of Alex hitting on him I think that was a revelation to him. It was something he could definitely relate to. Although at times as others mentioned he did yell and confront her  this seemed to put Leonard on equal footing with Penny. Penny's view of Leonard may have changed before this but his view of penny hadn't.

[SRAM]

I can't help thinking Penny is still in control of the relationship. When Leonard gave her the responsibility to propose, he also gave away all control on the progress of the relationship. Normally a guy lets a girl know he wants to take the relationship to the next level by proposing and if the girl accepts, she agrees. If she doesn't, it usually causes problems because it means they have obvious different views about their relationship. Leonard has found that out a couple of times, so now by giving Penny the power, he just waits with no control, forever? I liked Tensor's idea in his fanfiction, there should have been a time limit put on Penny. Right now Leonard is helpless and just has to wait for her to do something. Think how you would feel if you had to wait for your SO to make that decision and you had no real control, how long would you wait?

[mjc45]

She even is still wearing it on the scavenger hunt

that was is in ep#2,when it came back home

to surpise her.

[Chiara]

I can't help thinking Penny is still in control of the relationship. When Leonard gave her the responsibility to propose, he also gave away all control on the progress of the relationship. Normally a guy lets a girl know he wants to take the relationship to the next level by proposing and if the girl accepts, she agrees. If she doesn't, it usually causes problems because it means they have obvious different views about their relationship. Leonard has found that out a couple of times, so now by giving Penny the power, he just waits with no control, forever? I liked Tensor's idea in his fanfiction, there should have been a time limit put on Penny. Right now Leonard is helpless and just has to wait for her to do something. Think how you would feel if you had to wait for your SO to make that decision and you had no real control, how long would you wait?

Technically, you are absolutely correct. Leonard's decision to leave Penny in charge of the proposal could spell disaster for him. However, in this instance, I believe his move was strategically brilliant. 

 

Penny has issues. One of them is her gut-wrenching fear of being "trapped" into a marriage she has not had the time to think through. But she knows Leonard wants to get married someday. She knows it all the better because, in his own words, he proposes a lot. So, before the 2013 Valentine's Day near massacre, she must have been living with a sword of Damocles over her head : is he going to propose now ? Tomorrow ? Next week ? If he does, what do I do ? I love him but I am not sure I want to get married just yet, how can I say no and not hurt his feelings ? 

The last proposal had not been a great experience for either of them and, considering Penny's problems, it might have left a rather ugly mark on her mind. Every time one of those questions popped up in her mind, it set her back a little and made her that tiny bit less likely to answer favourably to any of her boyfriend's overtures. 

By giving her the reins in this matter, Leonard actually got closer to his ultimate goal. Now, Penny is relatively comfortable, relaxed in the relationship. She is no longer looking over her shoulder to see if Leonard is about to kneel and ask the dreaded question. Eventually, she will mellow enough to be completely at ease with the idea and propose herself.

 

Therefore, Leonard's idea was, I believe, a tactical victory.

It is also important to note that he made the decision after he heard Penny confess that, if he were to keep on proposing, she would eventually say yes. So he knew she was not allergic either to the concept of marriage in general or to the prospect of marrying him in particular but rather had an issue with the timing and delivery system. Ultimately, he has no reason to think Penny will never propose, or will only do so in 20 years. He knows it is coming; he is willing to wait it out. 

 

Let us not forget that Leonard has a 173 IQ and plays chess. His move was a sacrifice and I think it worked just fine. 

[SRAM]

Marriage is a risk and now there is no risk on Penny's part. Doesn't it sound silly to say 'I'll wait for you forever, so anytime you are ready.' I bet many people get married with doubts, they even talk about people having pre marriage doubts, and I bet a lot of girls are not ready for marriage when asked, but I bet they consider that if they say no, they may loose the guy, so they go with the lesser of two evils. It becomes a decision, do a couple more years of being single mean more than loosing the best mate you have ever met?

Now that I think of it, this is perfect for the writers, they could delay this for well over a season, so Leonard has doubts it will ever happen, then he could suggest they step back to see other people because he is at the point in his life he wants to settle down and she isn't. They could then date around for another season, even have a fling themselves a couple times, and then after a season Penny could realize she was going to really loose him and no one means as much to her as him.

[hamerman55]

Leonard has several allies in his camp, although they may not know it. Amy and Bernie will keep nudging Penny, as Bernie is married and Amy wants to be. Amy also needs Sheldon isolated to put pressure on Sheldon. Sheldon will actively oppose anything that would have Leonard shopping around. There is likely to be a train of graduate students in the labs, as both Leonard and Sheldon have grant money. Unless Penny's acting career takes off, working at the Cheesecake Factory is going to get even more stale than it already is. Leonard is also likely to travel more, with the Hawking connection. Her own happiness with Leonard will favor a permanent solution. Leonard just needs to rool his eyes whenever marriage comes up.

None of these things will support an environment where Penny will feel secure in dragging this out.

[SRAM]

Leonard has several allies in his camp, although they may not know it. Amy and Bernie will keep nudging Penny, as Bernie is married and Amy wants to be. Amy also needs Sheldon isolated to put pressure on Sheldon. Sheldon will actively oppose anything that would have Leonard shopping around. There is likely to be a train of graduate students in the labs, as both Leonard and Sheldon have grant money. Unless Penny's acting career takes off, working at the Cheesecake Factory is going to get even more stale than it already is. Leonard is also likely to travel more, with the Hawking connection. Her own happiness with Leonard will favor a permanent solution. Leonard just needs to rool his eyes whenever marriage comes up.

None of these things will support an environment where Penny will feel secure in dragging this out.

I don't think they will use peer-pressure, jealousy, or dead end job to have her propose. I think it will be a sudden realization on her part that she can't go on without him, she needs him, and that can happen anytime in the future, even the last season.

[Chrismo]

Leonard has several allies in his camp, although they may not know it. Amy and Bernie will keep nudging Penny, as Bernie is married and Amy wants to be. Amy also needs Sheldon isolated to put pressure on Sheldon. Sheldon will actively oppose anything that would have Leonard shopping around. There is likely to be a train of graduate students in the labs, as both Leonard and Sheldon have grant money. Unless Penny's acting career takes off, working at the Cheesecake Factory is going to get even more stale than it already is. Leonard is also likely to travel more, with the Hawking connection. Her own happiness with Leonard will favor a permanent solution. Leonard just needs to rool his eyes whenever marriage comes up.

None of these things will support an environment where Penny will feel secure in dragging this out.

 

I don't think they will use peer-pressure, jealousy, or dead end job to have her propose. I think it will be a sudden realization on her part that she can't go on without him, she needs him, and that can happen anytime in the future, even the last season.

I think in some ways you are both correct. Sheldon on his own would be a benefit to Amy. Bernie can tell Penny the benefits of marriage Ultimately though it is Penny's decision. Though I don't think it will be in the last season. I don't know if fans are willing to wait that long. I think the show will end with what finally happens with Sheldon and Amy.

[ArmyGirl]

 

The locket just makes me every single time! 

 

 

Thanks for sharing the picture ---- it's so cute.  Leonard and Penny looks so happy.

 

Just a thought, wish Penny would update the picture of her and Leonard that is on her fridge.  The one she has now is from season one and where Leonard is dreaming in the time machine and him coming to her rescue with the elevator.

Edited September 11, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Mrs.Soft-Kitty]

Thanks for the picture !

I'm glad to see them again !! They are so cute both of them <3