Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Tensor]

Wow Tensor I can't believe TBBT is the only series of C. Lorre that I have actually watched.  I have seen a few episodes of TAAM (on Fox waiting on BBT) but none of the others.

 

As for Althea and the actress that portray her, I will always remember her as The Fresh Prince mother with Will Smith.

 

Interestingly, for me, I watched, and liked Dharma and Grace.  I watched Dharma the entire run and Grace the first couple of years.  I didn't know that they were Chuck's series at the time and Chuck was forced off of Grace due to conflicts with Brett Butler, the star, who was forced on him by the network as a condition of buying the series.  And after Chuck left, the star relapsed in her drug and alcohol problems.    I still loved the first episode of TAAHM when they were trying to sell the house after killing off Charlie, and one of the couples was a now unhappy in their marriage Dharma and Greg (Jenna Elfman and Thomas Gibson, now on Criminal Minds). 

[Nogravitasatall]

@Tensor. SNAP. (The vocal outburst when two individuals realise some commonality. Attributable to the simple card game SNAP. Not to be confused with some currently favoured expression "Oh, snap!" which alludes to giving a third party recognition for a derisive retort to the first party. Attributable to the noise made by stretching and releasing an elastic supporting band for some garment, such as a brassiere or mens trouser braces.)

By which I mean i watched like that too. Nb.John Goodman was in the Grace under Fire pilot, as a cop. When will he be on TBBT

[Chiara]

Of course the writers have to blame it on Leonard. These are the writers that don't believe in mapping out where the characters are going and just go with whatever idea pop in their heads.  There are no arches for the characters, there is no contingency for one episode to the next and it has come back to bite the in bottom.  I know some love this but I mean in the end they wind up painting themselves into a corner and which character do you think the hammer will fall on ---- Leonard.

I recognize my previous post's phrasing lacked subtlety and for that I apologise : nobody is to "blame", literally speaking, for nothing "wrong" has happened.  

 

There is an arch, not just for Leonard, but for all the characters involved. The hero stated it as clearly as humanly possible in the pilot (the one that was broadcast) : "smart and beautiful" babies. The show revolves around that very notion : four brilliant geeks finding their way to adulthood, learning how to cope with grownup, everyday issues (sexuality, heartbreak, responsibility, vulnerability, boredom, disappointment, etc) and teaching the adults that a healthy dose of geekiness makes life that much more amusing. 

That is the finish line for every character on the show, regardless of which end of the geek-non geek spectrum they are on. They are all going there, at different speed. 

 

Leonard is the instigator of the quest therefore the one most enthusiastic and eager to complete it. Conversely, Sheldon is the suspicious, one-man Greek chorus who resists the changes involved in the pursuit of the ultimate goal. It is Leonard's duty as the main character to drag his friend along, to help and encourage him on the way for a hero never leaves a companion behind. 

 

Of course it all evolves at a rather glacial pace and I understand that it can be terribly frustrating. But that does not mean there is no plan. 

 

So Leonard so called psychological issue was throw in to deal with them not wanting to pen Sheldon putting on his big boy pants and growing the heck up age wise (and as you I know he is a grow man in body only).  To be honest I don't think the writers cares that they are dragging Leonard through the mud in order to protect the Sheldon character and it upset me that Leonard can be sacrifice at the altar of Sheldon.

I may be completely wrong but I fail to see where the "mud" Leonard is being "dragged through" is. 

 

Leonard has a kink, for lack of a better word : he loves to be surrounded by alpha-type personalities.

If you consider that disparaging or demeaning of the character, I am sorry but I, for one, cannot agree with this interpretation. I would in fact go one step further and write that this particular aspect of his personality makes him all the more interesting to me. 

 

After they decided to saddle Leonard with Sheldon, the writers had to provide the audience with an explanation for, while he is very entertaining to watch, Dr Cooper is borderline impossible to live with. They could have gone for the obvious justification and depicted Leonard as a pushover : a guy who is perpetually taken advantage of because he is too weak or personality-deprived to defend himself.

But they did not. They gave Leonard heaps of personality and strength and, above all, the courage to go after what he wants. They painted him as a guy who rarely ever says no to his friends and his lover because, most of the time, he does not really want to. However, whenever he feels like putting his foot down, he is always shown to be more than capable of standing his ground.

 

The fact that he spontaneously favours tough-to-please, domineering characters highlights his own strength. Leonard's character has never been damaged or trashed by the writers and him showing partiality to dominant types does not change that in any way.

 

Now, I absolutely accept that it is my biased interpretation and others may disagree entirely. Nevertheless, the idea that TPTB do not have Leonard's best interest in mind and are willing to sacrifice him as a character for Sheldon's sake is, to me, inaccurate. They may be OK with slowing Dr Hofstadter down so his best buddy can keep up (classic case of no man left behind) but they only do so because they know both will ultimately reach the finish line with all their limbs. 

[3ku11]

I recognize my previous post's phrasing lacked subtlety and for that I apologise : nobody is to "blame", literally speaking, for nothing "wrong" has happened.  

 

There is an arch, not just for Leonard, but for all the characters involved. The hero stated it as clearly as humanly possible in the pilot (the one that was broadcast) : "smart and beautiful" babies. The show revolves around that very notion : four brilliant geeks finding their way to adulthood, learning how to cope with grownup, everyday issues (sexuality, heartbreak, responsibility, vulnerability, boredom, disappointment, etc) and teaching the adults that a healthy dose of geekiness makes life that much more amusing. 

That is the finish line for every character on the show, regardless of which end of the geek-non geek spectrum they are on. They are all going there, at different speed. 

 

Leonard is the instigator of the quest therefore the one most enthusiastic and eager to complete it. Conversely, Sheldon is the suspicious, one-man Greek chorus who resists the changes involved in the pursuit of the ultimate goal. It is Leonard's duty as the main character to drag his friend along, to help and encourage him on the way for a hero never leaves a companion behind. 

 

Of course it all evolves at a rather glacial pace and I understand that it can be terribly frustrating. But that does not mean there is no plan. 

 

I may be completely wrong but I fail to see where the "mud" Leonard is being "dragged through" is. 

 

Leonard has a kink, for lack of a better word : he loves to be surrounded by alpha-type personalities.

If you consider that disparaging or demeaning of the character, I am sorry but I, for one, cannot agree with this interpretation. I would in fact go one step further and write that this particular aspect of his personality makes him all the more interesting to me. 

 

After they decided to saddle Leonard with Sheldon, the writers had to provide the audience with an explanation for, while he is very entertaining to watch, Dr Cooper is borderline impossible to live with. They could have gone for the obvious justification and depicted Leonard as a pushover : a guy who is perpetually taken advantage of because he is too weak or personality-deprived to defend himself.

But they did not. They gave Leonard heaps of personality and strength and, above all, the courage to go after what he wants. They painted him as a guy who rarely ever says no to his friends and his lover because, most of the time, he does not really want to. However, whenever he feels like putting his foot down, he is always shown to be more than capable of standing his ground.

 

The fact that he spontaneously favours tough-to-please, domineering characters highlights his own strength. Leonard's character has never been damaged or trashed by the writers and him showing partiality to dominant types does not change that in any way.

 

Now, I absolutely accept that it is my biased interpretation and others may disagree entirely. Nevertheless, the idea that TPTB do not have Leonard's best interest in mind and are willing to sacrifice him as a character for Sheldon's sake is, to me, inaccurate. They may be OK with slowing Dr Hofstadter down so his best buddy can keep up (classic case of no man left behind) but they only do so because they know both will ultimately reach the finish line with all their limbs. 

Well in recent years Leonard's work has been getting more recognition then Sheldon, so I don't agree to that they are dragging Leonard through the mud, just as much as I don't agree the writers have always had Sheldon as a third wheel to Lenny. Sheldon's in their lives doesen't make him a third wheel, it's just the way it is. Leonard since S2 has shown alot more backbone, because TBH he has always had it, but he is a nerd and may have submissive behaviour tendencies and traits due to to the lack of love and recognition he received from his Mother. But he has always put his friends first and Penny first, I have always felt at times Leonard's friendship with Sheldon is more out of obligation then an actual friendship. The basis of their friendship is based on the room mate agreement, when Sheldon has given Leonard the oppurtunity in the past to stop being friends, to get out of a specific clause in the Room Mate agreement, Leonard has taken it every time haha. But in the end Leonard is his little buddy, and their is a friendship their regardless of how many times Sheldon is perceived to be a third wheel to Lenny, or any of Leonard's other relationships. Although I think with Amy in his life you are seeing less of that now, like I said earlier I don't see Sheldon being in Leonard and Penny's life, as the writers once again re-enforcing the protagonist which is Sheldon, or trying to force S/P because they are the lead draw (which I don't agree with, Leonard and Penny have for the most part being the biggest draw, and TBH all the characters are the biggest draw). I just think the arch from the pilot has been L/P/S, and the only way that well change is 1. Sheldon progresses in his relationship with Amy, and maybe stays over at her place more and 2. Leonard and Penny move in together. It is really the living arrangements as to why their has always been that L/P/S arch JMO.

[eirwinrommel]

Technically, you are absolutely correct. Leonard's decision to leave Penny in charge of the proposal could spell disaster for him. However, in this instance, I believe his move was strategically brilliant. 

 

Penny has issues. One of them is her gut-wrenching fear of being "trapped" into a marriage she has not had the time to think through. But she knows Leonard wants to get married someday. She knows it all the better because, in his own words, he proposes a lot. So, before the 2013 Valentine's Day near massacre, she must have been living with a sword of Damocles over her head : is he going to propose now ? Tomorrow ? Next week ? If he does, what do I do ? I love him but I am not sure I want to get married just yet, how can I say no and not hurt his feelings ? 

The last proposal had not been a great experience for either of them and, considering Penny's problems, it might have left a rather ugly mark on her mind. Every time one of those questions popped up in her mind, it set her back a little and made her that tiny bit less likely to answer favourably to any of her boyfriend's overtures. 

By giving her the reins in this matter, Leonard actually got closer to his ultimate goal. Now, Penny is relatively comfortable, relaxed in the relationship. She is no longer looking over her shoulder to see if Leonard is about to kneel and ask the dreaded question. Eventually, she will mellow enough to be completely at ease with the idea and propose herself.

 

Therefore, Leonard's idea was, I believe, a tactical victory.

It is also important to note that he made the decision after he heard Penny confess that, if he were to keep on proposing, she would eventually say yes. So he knew she was not allergic either to the concept of marriage in general or to the prospect of marrying him in particular but rather had an issue with the timing and delivery system. Ultimately, he has no reason to think Penny will never propose, or will only do so in 20 years. He knows it is coming; he is willing to wait it out. 

 

Let us not forget that Leonard has a 173 IQ and plays chess. His move was a sacrifice and I think it worked just fine. 

I think what Leonard is doing is playing a long game. He wants Penny and knows she wants him, but can't let go of her fears. Leonard is letting her work out her issues herself and not pressuring her to move on his time table. He jumped the gun a bit when he asked her to marry him (5-23) or when he tried to move in (6-15). Since then he 's taking it slow until Penny's ready. Of course I wouldn't be surprised to find he's been making plans and laying in supplies, so that when the time comes she won't have time to change her mind or have something (or someone) screw things up.

[eirwinrommel]

I'm not suggesting that the writers need to have the various parties actively influence Penny. Rather that the influence is baked into the show. Berndette is going to talk about her marriage, and if it continues to be a good one, a reminder of the positive benefits. Amy is going to want Sheldon alone. She will be with Leonard, and his mere presence will be a reminder. If they have good times together, and Leonard travels more due to his success, Penny will influence herself. Leonard's best move at this point is to actively not remind Penny. Rather be a little dense about hints. Avoid the idea. Make Penny think he's cooled to the idea a little. Good things happen to Leonard when Penny is insecure.

Last season, Leonard on screen rarely said anything about their relationship after Alex was introduced. The exceptions were in the 43 Peculiarity. In the VD episode, Leonard didn't talk about the relationship. Penny did. (The proposal wasn't really serious, IMO, as it never really started.). As I mentioned in last season's forum, there is no evidence that Leonard has seriously proposed to Penny. There was no ring. Things said in the midst of sex don't could in my book. In fact, I think Penny overreacted to Leonard proposing while they were having sex in the fifth season.

The best thing for Leonard would be for him to acquire a couple of cute graduate students. Then Penny will be nervous, and Amy and Bernadette will tease her. Penny will drag Leonard to the altar.

Sheldon said it in season 2 episode 9.

 

Sheldon: I’ve been doing some research online, and apparently female primates, you know, uh, apes, chimpanzees, you, they find their mate more desirable when he’s being courted by another female. Now, this effect is intensified when the rival female is secreting the pheromones associated with ovulation. Which brings me back to my question, where are you in (Penny slams door). Clearly, I’m 14 days too early.

 

Worked using Alex, would probably work with grad students. BTW Amy did the same thing to Sheldon to get him to act.

[eirwinrommel]

I have no doubt a real L/P relationship would have to be away from Sheldon. Well away. More than a bus ride away.

I was only partially joking when I suggested that Leonard shoot Sheldon for barging in per the S7.2 spoiler. They need room to be a couple. I'm not that enthused by the 5a solution either. I just don't think I can hope for the move away from Sheldon, yet or before the curtain comes down.

While I like the Idea of L/P moving away from Sheldon (then renting/buying under assumed names and not telling him where they live), the Apt. Bldg. set is too big a part of the show for it to go away. Plus that would mean spending money on a new set.

[Nogravitasatall]

While I like the Idea of L/P moving away from Sheldon (then renting/buying under assumed names and not telling him where they live), the Apt. Bldg. set is too big a part of the show for it to go away. Plus that would mean spending money on a new set.

All reasons why we have to just cope with Sheldon. Its a device, like why people don't run perpendicularly away from falling spaceships (see Prometheus). Plus Chiara's domination fetish explanation for Leonard. (Mr Lorre did once run Alan through that mill, literally. Tied to the bed in a red latex suit lol. Or did I just dream that? No, Google says yes). As long as Leonard is happy with his level of misery, they will not move. I predict now that Penny will drag him out of there, when it suits her.

[3ku11]

Leonards strategy and his approach towards their relationship and Penny's to is the difference this time. I think they are both equals now is great too. Used to be in S1-S3 Leonard was the archetypical nerd who desired the hot girl across the hall , and Penny the gorgeous girl next door/aspiring actress who with all the best intentions was ultimatly settling for the type of guy she usually dosen't go for, this also underly's the initial premise of the show used to be a show about eggheads and their hottie neighbour Penny, by S3 it transform into this addictive ensemble piece as the show progressed Lenny progressed at a linear pace too, not sure if that is coincidential or not lol. But by S3 you could tell Penny was getting tired of the dumb gym guys mistreating her, and apart from her growing friendship with Leonard. The whole basis of their relationship was based on Penny wanting a change in her dating lifestyle, and ironcally advice from Sheldon that he gave both to Penny and Leonard, Schindlers Cat Theory. That you'll never know the cat's alive until you open the box. Penny early on in S2 after Lenny: The Early Days When Leonard went out with Leslie, and Penny out with some random guy, she was even using that as a conversation piece on their date lol, so subconciousley I think Penny's always wanted to be with Leonard. The main reason why Lenny diddn't work first time around was more due to a misunderstanding, Leonard trying to hard on their first date, because of this Leonard came across as too keen, and the guys got it into his head he did something wrong, as Howard put it "No more like this fish taste bad so I'm just going to spit it out". But Penny revealed to Sheldon she felt dumb and uneducated in comparison, and asked Sheldon had Leonard date normal-smart girls before haha, Sheldon was obviousley vague in his response, made some comments about; Do you know some card tricks? Do you have a working understanding of quantum physics? Remember Penny replied with "Okay I get it a girl like me has no buisness dating a guy like Leonard". Sheldon with all the best intentions inadvertantly anyway ending up confusing things more between Leonard and Penny, which is why Leonard ended up trying to get Penny to develop her education, Penny took this as Dr Hofstedder can only date a women once theyr'e qualified enough. This to me what has changed Lenny has always been a work in progress, because of Penny's growth and especially since S2 Penny's dating lifestyle even changed then, the guys especially Leonard became like a support group for her, and she immersed herself in their activities. Leonard now especially after the ILY is alot more confident in his relationship with Penny, and after his relationship with Priya it gave him the needed self confidence, he now has self validation. And with Penny, Priya and especially Alex recently revealed insecurities even she diddn't kno she had, as at the end of the day she is ultimatley scared of loosing Leonard to someone perceived better, after Priya and even Alex made her realize looks are not everything, at her core she is a struggling actress. Despite all this Leonard choose Penny, and despite Leonard's shortcomings Penny could be with any guy right now but she choose Leonard. Now Penny is not hulking out and Leonard is not seeking approval due to his submissive behaviour thanks to his mother. Theirs alot more honesty and trust their now, hence why they are now in a equal partnership. Sorry for a long post lol, but when it comes to a proposal, I think its the best for Lenny that Penny has the power, takes the pressure off so they can just have fun, it well happen naturally over time.

Edited September 12, 2013 by 3ku11

[rickfromillinois]

I have always thought that Priya was a much better match for Leonard until she cheated on him with her old boyfriend.   I hope they bring her back just to see how Penny reacts.

[Chiara]

I have always thought that Priya was a much better match for Leonard until she cheated on him with her old boyfriend.   I hope they bring her back just to see how Penny reacts.

Really ? I never got that vibe from her. She did not like his friends, his style, his hobbies or his ways; while she definitely enjoyed the "serious" part of him (his job as a respected physicist), she could not have cared less for his "goofy" side (i.e. the geek). And that is without mentioning her being ashamed of him and not wanting her parents to know about their relationship. 

Conversely, Penny takes Leonard as a whole, both the celebrated professional scientist and the total nerd who goes on a quest to get his best friend's imaginary ostrich back from a virtual thief. 

 

I suppose Howard summed it up best in The Zarnecki Incursion : "This one's funny Leonard. How come you couldn't make it work with her ?"

[Tensor]

I gotta agree with Rick on one point. I'd like to have her back just to see Penny's reaction. Her going into protective mode at the same time she goes into gloating mode has to be worth a few laughs. The awkward between Priya and Leonard. I can also see Penny going into retribution mode (and going all Nebraska on her if she gets even slightly out of line. I can see lots of laughs in there.

[terriblewaitress]

Oh boy I would love an episode like that. (Picture me with an evil smirk and a cup of tea) That would be brilliant. 

 

can i write that episode?

[hamerman55]

Sometimes I think we talk as if Leonard is unhappy living with Sheldon, and is somehow "forced" into it. I believe that for the most part he's comfortable there. Sheldon is highly predictable (he schedules his bathroom breaks!). If he knows the schedule, Leonard can navigate a far amount of freedom. From my college-grad school days, a neat, predictable and reliable roommate made for good living conditions. Leonard actually doesn't have to worry about much, since Sheldon has it all planned out. As the first person on the lease, all the rent and utility bills come through Sheldon, so all Leonard has to do is write his checks when Sheldon asks for them. Given his family background of being raised in a psychological "lab", controlled conditions probably feel like home. Unlike home, when things get annoying, he can threaten to leave, and get some accomodation. What has been missing in season six is the shared household sense of the previous seasons, such as the joint purchase of the Longclaw replica. Recall the Time Machine episode, where the other guys were jealous of the Nerdvana he and Sheldon had created.

One problem not stated in moving Leonard in with Penny is that she is messy and disorganized. In many respects, Leonard has a good situation, albeit with compromises. He can have loud sex with Penny regularly, escape from Sheldon when he is a pain, but can retreat back to Nervana whenever he wants. At this point, Leonard probably wants to be married to Penny to lock down his hot, sexy girlfriend and be secure in that relationship. After being in a "five year experiment" according to Penny in season six, Leonard wants to be secure in the relationship. I don't think he's seriously interested in settling down. Penny's nightmare is tied down with kids too soon. If Penny can convince Leonard the she is his forever without marriage, he will probably be OK with that. I think if they had a serious talk about relationship goals, I think Penny would have a lot less to worry about. From her background, marriage in Penny's eyes is living in a trailer with a bunch of screaming kids, the first of which triggered a shotgun wedding. Marriage to Leonard means living with Penny, at some point buying a nice house, a cleaning service, and kids when they are ready after things are in place. No accidental children.

Leonard's spontaneous proposals are not really a surprise. Penny knows Leonard wants her forever (although she is capable of jealousy now), so him proposing is expected, really. I again note that neither of the specific proposals we've bee made aware of were serious attempt, as they were spnotaneous, and there was no ring. Screaming out "will you marry me" in the midst of excellent sex after six months of a sexless relationship with Penny is not too surprising. If she is as good as implied, I'd do the same thing if it would ensure such sex. It was NOT a serious request. In the restaurant, Leonard was reacting to Penny's anger, jealousy and frustration with Gretchen's good fortune. We know Leonard hates to see Penny unhappy, and a proposal at this point should have done the trick. Penny WAS being a stone bitch, and deserved to be called out on it. This is the second time we've seen Penny's fear of marriage, and it is the sense of being trapped (and living in a trailer with a bunch of screaming kids, an alcoholic husband who is cheating on him) that is her fear. Penny needs to realize that marriage to Leonard is not a cage, and is likely going to be nicer than anything she has experienced before.

As has been noted, Leonard and Penny do better when they talk under the right circumstances. Has Penny wargamed out life with Leonard? What does she think it would be like? It is possible she has, and is afraid she will not live up to it. She may be very afraid of being able to fit in. Right now, she is part of a well-knit group with lots of mutual support. She likely doubts her ability to be a faculty wife without a real acting career. I believe that, at least in the near term, things within the group wouldn't change much. It wouldn't be what we had for a long time - a bunch of "students" sharing pizza or Thai food. It would be more organized and formal, such as the dinner at the Wolowitz's.

Penny has probaly avoided talking to Leonard about what their marriage would be like, since she doesn't want to get him started. Maybe she should overcome her aversion, and have that discussion. Now that Leonard has agreed not to propose, she could try that. Talking this out would likely calm her fears of what marriage mean, and open her to the idea. I don't think Leonard has thought past just being sure of Penny, in spite of the "our children will be smart and beautiful" comment.

[ArmyGirl]

I gotta agree with Rick on one point. I'd like to have her back just to see Penny's reaction. Her going into protective mode at the same time she goes into gloating mode has to be worth a few laughs. The awkward between Priya and Leonard. I can also see Penny going into retribution mode (and going all Nebraska on her if she gets even slightly out of line. I can see lots of laughs in there.

 

 

Hey Tensor, I see another fanfiction in you future.  And it would be great if something like this played out on the show.

 

eta: remember how Kurt came back into Penny's life and Leonard dealing with it.

Edited September 12, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[I.Am.Molly]

Oh boy I would love an episode like that. (Picture me with an evil smirk and a cup of tea) That would be brilliant.

can i write that episode?

You can write that episode! And you can do it on fanfiction. Go write little snowflake.

[Zhalen565]

And Althea, don't forget Althea. The only other actor from the first pilot to make an appearance in the production series. More than many of the famous characters. She's been in five episodes. More than Zack and it was only this past year that Wil had more appearances. She is also another example of Chuck Lorre's bringing in people he's worked with before. She's appeared in Two and a Half Men, Dharma and Greg, and Grace Under Fire.

I hadn't forgot her, every time she's appeared she has been quite brilliant, anytime a medical person is required, bring her back. Her interactions with whomever has strolled up to that desk has been pure comedy.

[Chrismo]

I have always thought that Priya was a much better match for Leonard until she cheated on him with her old boyfriend.   I hope they bring her back just to see how Penny reacts.

 

Really ? I never got that vibe from her. She did not like his friends, his style, his hobbies or his ways; while she definitely enjoyed the "serious" part of him (his job as a respected physicist), she could not have cared less for his "goofy" side (i.e. the geek). And that is without mentioning her being ashamed of him and not wanting her parents to know about their relationship. 

Conversely, Penny takes Leonard as a whole, both the celebrated professional scientist and the total nerd who goes on a quest to get his best friend's imaginary ostrich back from a virtual thief. 

 

I suppose Howard summed it up best in The Zarnecki Incursion : "This one's funny Leonard. How come you couldn't make it work with her ?"

I didn't get that vibe from her either. I also remember Penny's father loved Leonard before ever meeting him. Obviously Penny spoke to her father about Leonard. In reality Priya couldn't ever compete with Penny. Priya never liked Penny because of her "closeness" to him. More of Penny's dislike of Priya had to do with her knowing she goofed breaking up with Leonard. (mentioning to Raj). @Rick mentioned Priya cheating on Leonard but in reality Leonard had cheated on her with Alice before he knew about that.That would of never happened if Leonard had still been with Penny

Edited September 12, 2013 by Chrismo

[Chrismo]

Of course the writers have to blame it on Leonard. These are the writers that don't believe in mapping out where the characters are going and just go with whatever idea pop in their heads.  There are no arches for the characters, there is no contingency for one episode to the next and it has come back to bite the in bottom.  I know some love this but I mean in the end they wind up painting themselves into a corner and which character do you think the hammer will fall on ---- Leonard.

 

So Leonard so called psychological issue was throw in to deal with them not wanting to pen Sheldon putting on his big boy pants and growing the heck up age wise (and as you I know he is a grow man in body only).  To be honest I don't think the writers cares that they are dragging Leonard through the mud in order to protect the Sheldon character and it upset me that Leonard can be sacrifice at the altar of Sheldon.  I mean where will Leonard be if we make it to Season Ten?  Will he still be living with Sheldon?  Will Leonard still with Penny unmarried and living in two different places?  Will Leonard every make tenure? What will Leonard career advancement be like? 

 

Why can't the writer finally move Sheldon forward so that they other characters (Leonard, Penny, Amy) can too.

Over the years of the show everyone has had the "hammer" fall on them. Leonard is getting no worse treatment than anyone else.

Let's look at season 6 in regards to Leonard. Penny finally said ILY to him. Penny was very insecure and jealous (which he liked) with Alex hitting on him. The two of them had more dinner and alone time in Penny's apartment than the first five years of the show. In regards to Sheldon three years ago he went on his first date chaperoned by Penny. In season 6 he was rubbing vapor rub on Amy' chest, playing PG 13 D&d in his room with Amy and admitting to the possibility of having sex with Amy. Both L/S made a lot of advancements in Season 6.

Does Sheldon get in the way of L/P's relationship? Absolutely. But L/P/S are the three main characters and the other two are Sheldon's best friends. I think his getting in the way bothers us more than L/P.

In regards to your questions I think the apartment(s) are like characters on the show. Eventually though I think L/P will move in together. To me Leonard's tenure and career advancement is unimportant.. The real question should be where is Penny' career path going to take her? Working at the Chessecake Factory you won't get a L/P wedding much less a proposal. I think everyone on this thread wants to see that.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Chrismo

[I.Am.Molly]

Over the years of the show everyone has had the "hammer" fall on them. Leonard is getting no worse treatment than anyone else.

Let's look at season 6 in regards to Leonard. Penny finally said ILY to him. Penny was very insecure and jealous (which he liked) with Alex hitting on him. The two of them had more dinner and alone time in Penny's apartment than the first five years of the show. In regards to Sheldon three years he went on his first date chaperoned by Penny. In season 6 he was rubbing vapor rub on Amy' chest, playing PG 13 D&d in his room with Amy and admitting to the possibility of having sex with Amy. Both L/S made a lot of advancements in Season 6.

Does Sheldon get in the way of L/P's relationship? Absolutely. But L/P/S are the three main characters and the other two are Sheldon's best friends. I think his getting in the way bothers us more than L/P.

In regards to your questions I think the apartment(s) are like characters on the show. Eventually though I think L/P will move in together. To me Leonard's tenure and career advancement is unimportant.. The real question should be where is Penny' career path going to take her? Working at the Chessecake Factory you won't get a L/P wedding much less a proposal. I think everyone on this thread wants to see that.

 

So true, Leonard has been no more singled out than the rest of them when it comes to crappy things happening to them.Itreally doesn't happen that often.

 

On another note, i love your avatar.   But not as much as i love my own.   :wub:          

[Chrismo]

So true, Leonard has been no more singled out than the rest of them when it comes to crappy things happening to them.Itreally doesn't happen that often.

 

On another note, i love your avatar.   But not as much as i love my own.   :wub:          

My wife would be worried if I had your avatar.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Chrismo

[Chiara]

What has been missing in season six is the shared household sense of the previous seasons, such as the joint purchase of the Longclaw replica. Recall the Time Machine episode, where the other guys were jealous of the Nerdvana he and Sheldon had created.

Well, we have had a few hints of domesticity : the steamer Leonard refused to pay for but wanted to use (The Bakersfield Expedition) and the remote control Sheldon bought even though it is too big for his favourite homunculus's hands (The Closure Alternative). Bert and Ernie are still fighting over the bills

 

Penny has probaly avoided talking to Leonard about what their marriage would be like, since she doesn't want to get him started. Maybe she should overcome her aversion, and have that discussion. Now that Leonard has agreed not to propose, she could try that. Talking this out would likely calm her fears of what marriage mean, and open her to the idea. I don't think Leonard has thought past just being sure of Penny, in spite of the "our children will be smart and beautiful" comment.

 Such a conversation would be tremendous progress on Penny's part. She hinted at the reason behind her fears in The Tangible Affection Proof : loss of control. The way she described it was quite telling : "As long as things keep going great between us, you'll keep asking me to marry you and eventually I'm going ot end up saying yes and we're gonna be married forever and the whole thing just freaks me out". 

"The whole thing" in question is not marriage per se but the entire process leading to it, a mechanical series of causes and effects that Penny cannot control : her happiness, Leonard's subsequent proposal(s), her positive answer. There is a strong sense of inevitability emanating from Penny's line, something that looks strangely like fate. She will end up marrying Leonard because it was decided, somehow, somewhere, by someone who is not her. 

 

Unfortunately, and in spite of her remarkable laziness, Penny is a control freak. She came to LA with a plan : waiting tables for six months then becoming a movie star (plan B : TV star). It may not look like much of a plan but it was hers. And she kept her eyes on the prize for over six years. It was only in The Closure Alternative that she started relaxing and realising that, even though her project is very noble indeed, it does not have to happen just like she wants it to for her life to be worthwhile, nor does she have to put everything else on hold while her career is still in standby.

She is slowly letting go of the stranglehold she has over her life and feelings. When that goes completely, she will propose. And Leonard will weep his eyes out, poor sweetheart.

 

I gotta agree with Rick on one point. I'd like to have her back just to see Penny's reaction. Her going into protective mode at the same time she goes into gloating mode has to be worth a few laughs. The awkward between Priya and Leonard. I can also see Penny going into retribution mode (and going all Nebraska on her if she gets even slightly out of line. I can see lots of laughs in there.

 Oh, I absolutely would not mind her coming back. I am sure there is a lot of comedy to extract from it, I believe Penny was never made aware of Pryia's shortcomings and is therefore, to this day, unaware that Raj's gorgeous sister is no competition. 

So bring on the jealousy (and the gloating) !

 

I didn't get that vibe from her either. I also remember Penny's father loved Leonard before ever meeting him. Obviously Penny spoke to her father about Leonard. In reality Priya couldn't ever compete with Penny. Priya never liked Penny because of his "closeness" to her. More of Penny's dislike of Priya had to do with her knowing she goofed breaking up with Leonard. (mentioning to Raj). @Rick mentioned Priya cheating on Leonard but in reality Leonard had cheated on her with Alice before he knew about that.That would of never happened if Leonard had still been with Penny

That was one of the smartest aspects of the whole Pryia/Leonard relationship as defined by the writers. 

 

We, the audience, have always known that, naturally, Leonard is not "that guy"; he does not sneek behind his girlfriend back and he does not cheat. Yet, when in a relationship with Pryia, he became "that guy" : he was more than tempted to ignore his S.O.'s wishes and keep on socialising with Penny "on the downlow" (The Prestidigitation Approximation) and he cheated, kissing a girl he had barely met (The Good Guy Fluctuation).

 

By having Leonard act in such an uncharacteristic way, the writers basically indicated the relationship (Preonard ? Lyia ?) was doomed. 

And just in case we did not get it, they had Leonard cheat with a Penny doppelgänger in the person of Alice. Both beautiful and street-y, both (rare) female customers of the comic book store, both sweet, both forthcoming in their overtures, both body art aficionadas (Alice had piercings in weird places, Penny has tattoos in strange locations), both with a history of dating jerks, both willing and able to throw Leonard out of their apartments, etc. 

 

On a side note, it is interesting that Leonard was very quick to understand Alice was hitting on him (and even quicker to yield to the temptation) while it took him forever to figure out Alex was interested in him, in spite of her not being much more subtle that her predecessor...

[Chrismo]

Actually it would be more interesting to have Alice come back instead of Priya or even Alex. Chiara's point is well taken. If Alex had come along when Priya was in India would Leonard have noticed her hitting on him?  My POV is they're both equally hot so my answer would be yes.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

There was one significant difference between Alice's advances and Alex's, Leonard had something that Alice wanted (the comic book). When Alice flirted with Leonard he assumed that she was trying to butter him up to get the  comic and he then invited her over because she seemed like a nice, friendly girl who had similar interests. He didn't realize she was actually interested in him until she stuck her tongue down his throat. Leonard can't tell the difference between flirting and just being nice until all the subtlety goes away (he's kind of the opposite of pre-Bernie Howard).

[Catlina]

What I admire in Leonard is how sincerely he has always loved Penny deep down in his heart throughout the years. It seems very obvious from the very beginning. It seems that although he was previously going out with other girls like Priya, deep down he was missing Penny in his heart all the time. I think his heart has always had the place for Penny that could not have removed or replaced by anyone, and that is really sweet. A part of his heart never broke up with her. The love he has for her is committed and committing love. Penny is a lucky girl to have the love of a guy with a heart so sincere that he has. They make such a perfect couple together.