Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Nogravitasatall]

Re Priya:

Series 4 Episode 19 – The Zarnecki Incursion

Priya: Leonard, you’re busy, let’s talk tomorrow.

Leonard: Oh, wait. Hang on. Are you upset?

Priya: No, no, I think it’s sexy to date a boy trapped in a man’s body.

So, not suited to Leonard, at all.

Later...

Penny: No problem. So, Leonard, I think it’s interesting you didn’t call your girlfriend to come get you.

Leonard: Uh, I kind of told her I was working.

Penny: So you lied to her. Also interesting.

Leonard: Yeah, she doesn’t really understand the whole Warcraft adventure-role-playing thing.

Penny: Well, doesn’t matter if she gets it, as long as she’s pretty.

So, absolutely suited to Leonard. AND clear sighted about Priya. Leonard's brain did NOT have dibs on the blood supply at this time.

[I.Am.Molly]

What I admire in Leonard is how sincerely he has always loved Penny deep down in his heart throughout the years. It seems very obvious from the very beginning. It seems that although he was previously going out with other girls like Priya, deep down he was missing Penny in his heart all the time. I think his heart has always had the place for Penny that could not have removed or replaced by anyone, and that is really sweet. A part of his heart never broke up with her. The love he has for her is committed and committing love. Penny is a lucky girl to have the love of a guy with a heart so sincere that he has. They make such a perfect couple together.

 

Major feels from this post. Just to add to them, i'm gonna throw in some adorable pictures and Gifs. Just to emphasise her point!

 

                                  

                                                                           

 

 

 

                          

 

 

Too many? Maybe, but screw it, this thread needs the fluff. These two are just too much. THE FEELS!!   :wub:    Oh and FYI, i have no idea how to make Gifs, i got these on Tumblr. haha

[rickfromillinois]

I didn't get that vibe from her either. I also remember Penny's father loved Leonard before ever meeting him. Obviously Penny spoke to her father about Leonard. In reality Priya couldn't ever compete with Penny. Priya never liked Penny because of her "closeness" to him. More of Penny's dislike of Priya had to do with her knowing she goofed breaking up with Leonard. (mentioning to Raj). @Rick mentioned Priya cheating on Leonard but in reality Leonard had cheated on her with Alice before he knew about that.That would of never happened if Leonard had still been with Penny

Penny's father "loved" Leonard because Leonard was his best hope of not having to see his grandchildren raised in a home with wheels, in other words, his love for Leonard was based on finances and future earning potential.  Leonard kissd Alice but refused to sleep with her, then confessed to Priya.   Only after Leonard had told her did Priya admit that several weeks prior she had slept with her old boyfriend.    I fail to see how anyone could claim that there was any type of parity in their actions.

[eirwinrommel]

Really ? I never got that vibe from her. She did not like his friends, his style, his hobbies or his ways; while she definitely enjoyed the "serious" part of him (his job as a respected physicist), she could not have cared less for his "goofy" side (i.e. the geek). And that is without mentioning her being ashamed of him and not wanting her parents to know about their relationship. 

Conversely, Penny takes Leonard as a whole, both the celebrated professional scientist and the total nerd who goes on a quest to get his best friend's imaginary ostrich back from a virtual thief. 

 

I suppose Howard summed it up best in The Zarnecki Incursion : "This one's funny Leonard. How come you couldn't make it work with her ?"

Priya is a better match on paper. If Leonard was Indian or had made some big scientific discovery or was rich (thus making him acceptable to Priya's) parents, they would have probably gotten married. Most marriages (pre-19th century and even now in some parts of the world) were arranged. That system worked because there was almost no divorce, and infidelity was winked at as long as it was discreet. Of course that would have never happened because that's just not the kind of show this is.

[Nogravitasatall]

Cheating aside, Priya thought Leonard was a boy and was using him for sex and as a handbag.

..oh, and as a Ken doll. But with parts, as I said.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Tensor]

Cheating aside, Priya thought Leonard was a boy and was using him for sex and as a handbag.

On the side is usually where cheating occurs.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Tensor

[Chrismo]

Penny's father "loved" Leonard because Leonard was his best hope of not having to see his grandchildren raised in a home with wheels, in other words, his love for Leonard was based on finances and future earning potential.  Leonard kissd Alice but refused to sleep with her, then confessed to Priya.   Only after Leonard had told her did Priya admit that several weeks prior she had slept with her old boyfriend.    I fail to see how anyone could claim that there was any type of parity in their actions.

More my point with Priya is she never told her parents about Leonard. In regards to Priya/Leonard  Priya's actions were obviously worse than Leonard's. But it still doesn't excuse what he did.

[Nogravitasatall]

More my point with Priya is she never told her parents about Leonard. In regards to Priya/Leonard Priya's actions were obviously worse than Leonard's. But it still doesn't excuse what he did.

The cheating didn't matter so much, to me.

To misquote Batman's dad:

"why do we fall?"

"so we can pick ourselves up again".

If Leonard and Pryia and Raj and Penny had been happy, it wouldn't have happened anyway. It was inevitable.

[Nogravitasatall]

The locket just makes me every single time!

and they look happy.

[hamerman55]

What I admire in Leonard is how sincerely he has always loved Penny deep down in his heart throughout the years. It seems very obvious from the very beginning. It seems that although he was previously going out with other girls like Priya, deep down he was missing Penny in his heart all the time. I think his heart has always had the place for Penny that could not have removed or replaced by anyone, and that is really sweet. A part of his heart never broke up with her. The love he has for her is committed and committing love. Penny is a lucky girl to have the love of a guy with a heart so sincere that he has. They make such a perfect couple together.

I agree. Ever since the pilot, Leonard has been steadfast. He'd always rather be with Penny.

 

Regarding the situation with Priya, were they ever exclusive? I never saw where they discussed their relationship at all. It is implied that they were exclusive, but I cannot imagine Priya agreeing to such a limitation if she could a). insist in the most emphatic terms that her parents could not know; and made it clear that his being white made him a "forbidden piece of white chocolate". Leonard really knew that their relationship was basically going nowhere, and the fact that he was even drawn to Alice confirmed it. Personally, he should have cheated on Priya out of spite for trying to deny his existence. As has been stated before, she really didn't like HIM all that much. Penny actually likes Leonard, as well as loves him. Often those two things do not happen together. 

 

I am looking forward to Leonard and Penny's relationship developing, and fully expecting the writers to leave them together. It is actually far more likely at this point that the Wolowitzs break up, as it is not entirely clear that Howard is good with being on his own, not a good roommate and Bernadette has a serious temper. Consider that as late as last Valentine's Day, Howard couldn't be bother to spend the five minutes to wash a load of Bernadette's underwear, and rather irresponsibly spends several thousand dollars on the 3D printer. Bernie also humiliated him in response. I don't see the future Hofstaders having any serious problems.

Edited September 13, 2013 by hamerman55

[3ku11]

Not sure where this idea that Penny is a control freak just because she had aspirations of becoming an actress when she moved to LA. Their are many reasons for why she choose this career path, her upbringing is one. For instance Leonard is a experiemental Physicist due to the pressure from his mother, probably wanted to get away from the pressure of the field his mother specializes in. My point is Penny's choice in acting is obvious based on her image, look, her archetypical personality. And also her relationship with her father, almost a escape into another reality, I think when Beverley visited back in S2, she eluded to that haha. I'll say that Penny was Goal oriented, and expected that her girl next door Nebraska looks would automatically = Success and Fame. But I think the ep in S2 in The Barbarian Sublimation, Penny made a reference to the fact that she was too much of a "type". I think the writers living vicariousley thorugh Penny, have been establishing the fact that it is really hard to make it as an actress, that is why it is realistic having a pretty blonde girl next door working as an waitress and struggling as an actress, part of the reason why they have yet to develop on her career. Even the most talented and best looking actors or singers don't make it, it can come down to who you know not what you know. If say Leonard had an uncle who ironcally was big time producer lol that could help. although Penny may wonder why Leonard kept that information from her all these years.

 

As for the comment that Penny is really lazy, yeah maybe early on, but you could argue the level of tidiness of her apartment has a direct correlation in the progress she has made in maturing, and a physical manisfatation of that. You could in S6 that Penny's apartment is alot more tidy now, and she has become a lot more domesticated, just in the way she pre-plans Leonard's meals almost like a housewife lol, is a huge change. If you back to S1 I think 1x02 The Big Bran Hypothesis, when Sheldon decided to clean Penny's apartment in the middle of the night lol because it was so messy. Compare that now to S6, Penny has made a massive change in terms of the state of her living arrangment. I remember Penny was not happy, partly due to the fact she had been let down alot, and was not sure if she could trust Leonard and Sheldon who she just first met, but of course they became almost a support network for her later on in the series. I think this change has occured in how she actulizes her relationships in general, the ep where she realized she is passionate about Leonard and all her friends, was really a big moment for Penny. I think now she is realizing Leonard is a great guy, and their are other women out their who would love to be with a guy like that, that is why you saw some insecurites coming from the surface in S6, she is beggining to realize how much Leonard means to her, and how little she has to offer if she screws up.

 

And I don't think Priya was the best match for Leonard, sure they had alot more in common but look how that turned out, I just don't think Priya was as invested in Leonard as she was in their relationship in terms of how people saw them, and the image of their relationship. Like from changing his clothes, I felt Priya was trying to turn Leonard from a boy into a man, like with the comment "Who woulden't want a date a boy trapped in a man's body", she is probably used to dating sophisticated guys from india haha. The thing with Penny though for the most part she understood that side of him, because of her down to earth nebraska personality, she almost depended on the guys because she came across really sweet and nice, where as Priya although she could be nice at times, at the end of the day she wasen't in the relationship for the long run, the fact she was scared of telling her parents about their relationship says it all, and they were really doomed from the begginning. I never felt Leonard was his self around Priya, it was almost like he was being someone he thought he had to be based on the profile of their relationship, hence the all the nice clothes Priya bought for him.

 

With Penny she is the only one out of all his relationships that he has been himself, and Leonard is the only guy Penny has been herself, that is why they work. And I think the final car scene really sold to me from the writers POV anyway, that Lenny is end game, the ILY was much better then the one Leonard received early on in the season, it was a big step for Penny to just say ILY without any reservations or anything, it was genuine and intimate. Not sure if their well be a proposal this season, giving Penny the power means two things 1. So the writers can drag it out if they want too and 2. Put's the pressure off Penny, she knows Leonard wants her for life, and deep down regardless of her shortcomings and insecurities, and the how the idea of marrage just freaks her out, she wants Leonard too. Because TBH they are not ready for marrage just yet, Howard and Bernadette were and that's great for them, but Lenny has always been a work in progress, I think they need to meet each other's parents, maybe have an ep where all the parents meet haha that should be fun, maybe move in together, but obviousley Shamy may need to progress a bit for that to happen. 

Edited September 13, 2013 by 3ku11

[Oldnavy]

Really ? I never got that vibe from her. She did not like his friends, his style, his hobbies or his ways; while she definitely enjoyed the "serious" part of him (his job as a respected physicist), she could not have cared less for his "goofy" side (i.e. the geek). And that is without mentioning her being ashamed of him and not wanting her parents to know about their relationship. 

Conversely, Penny takes Leonard as a whole, both the celebrated professional scientist and the total nerd who goes on a quest to get his best friend's imaginary ostrich back from a virtual thief. 

 

I suppose Howard summed it up best in The Zarnecki Incursion : "This one's funny Leonard. How come you couldn't make it work with her ?"

I agree.  I never saw Priya as a good match for Leonard.  Most of the time she came across as shallow and arrogant.  Penny is Leonard's match.  She may not have a formal education but she does meet the deeper needs of Leonard's life which is someone who will provide him with positive emotional support as well as societal understanding, she understands people.  Like Chiara says, she loves Leonard for who he is, the good and the bad. 

 

At the same time, Leonard gives Penny what she needs.  He loves her for more than her "physical beauty". Her physical beauty may have been what attracted him, but he loves Penny the whole person, he sees beyond the surface.  He is the nice and honest guy who actually cares about her that she has been looking for.

[BangerMain]

Penny's father "loved" Leonard because Leonard was his best hope of not having to see his grandchildren raised in a home with wheels, in other words, his love for Leonard was based on finances and future earning potential.  Leonard kissed Alice but refused to sleep with her, then confessed to Priya.   Only after Leonard had told her did Priya admit that several weeks prior she had slept with her old boyfriend.    I fail to see how anyone could claim that there was any type of parity in their actions.

 

Penny's dad "loved" Leonard in the way you would expect a father would, he knew he would be the best choice to ensure a safe protected future for Penny. He was doing his duty in approving a prospective son-in-law.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that Leonard's so call "cheating" with Alice could not be equated in any way with what Priya did with her ex-boyfriend. I think the point of the "Good Guy" episode was to show that Leonard had a higher ethical standard then most men in that situation and to show that Penny still expected him to be that way.

[ArmyGirl]

Penny's dad "loved" Leonard in the way you would expect a father would, he knew he would be the best choice to ensure a safe protected future for Penny. He was doing his duty in approving a prospective son-in-law.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that Leonard's so call "cheating" with Alice could not be equated in any way with what Priya did with her ex-boyfriend. I think the point of the "Good Guy" episode was to show that Leonard had a higher ethical standard then most men in that situation and to show that Penny still expected him to be that way.

 

 You are right about Penny's dad.  Any good father would want their daughter with a man that can keep her safe, provide for them, and more importantly be good to his daughter, which Leonard can offer all these things and more.  While on the other hand most of the guys that came and when in Penny life offer none of these things.

 

So true about Leonard about the "Good Guy" episode.  I didn't like Leonard kissing Alice due to him still with Priya but I loved that he stopped himself from going any further.

[rickfromillinois]

More my point with Priya is she never told her parents about Leonard. In regards to Priya/Leonard  Priya's actions were obviously worse than Leonard's. But it still doesn't excuse what he did.

It is hard to judge someone from another culture using the norms from your culture.   Many from India still adhere to the caste system.  The only man that Priya's partents would approve of for her is an Indian male from the uppper caste.   No one is trying to excuse Leonard's actions, but there is no parity between his actions and Priya's.   He had the chance to sleep with someone else and didn't.  She had a chance to sleep with somone else and did.   He confessed his transgressions, she only did after his confession.   Kissing someone else and sleeping with someone else is not the same. 

 You are right about Penny's dad.  Any good father would want their daughter with a man that can keep her safe, provide for them, and more importantly be good to his daughter, which Leonard can offer all these things and more.  While on the other hand most of the guys that came and when in Penny life offer none of these things.

 

So true about Leonard about the "Good Guy" episode.  I didn't like Leonard kissing Alice due to him still with Priya but I loved that he stopped himself from going any further.

My problem with Penny's dad is that he never mentioned what a good man Leonard was, how well he treated his daughter, or how happy Penny was when she was with him.   All he focused on was Leonard's income potential.  Had I a daughter I would much rather have her marry someone who treated her well and made her happy even though he didn't make much money then marry a rich guy who treated her like crap and made her life miserable.

[SRAM]

It is hard to judge someone from another culture using the norms from your culture.   Many from India still adhere to the caste system.  The only man that Priya's partents would approve of for her is an Indian male from the uppper caste.   No one is trying to excuse Leonard's actions, but there is no parity between his actions and Priya's.   He had the chance to sleep with someone else and didn't.  She had a chance to sleep with somone else and did.   He confessed his transgressions, she only did after his confession.   Kissing someone else and sleeping with someone else is not the same. 

My problem with Penny's dad is that he never mentioned what a good man Leonard was, how well he treated his daughter, or how happy Penny was when she was with him.   All he focused on was Leonard's income potential.  Had I a daughter I would much rather have her marry someone who treated her well and made her happy even though he didn't make much money then marry a rich guy who treated her like crap and made her life miserable.

I really think he was referring to Leonard's intelligence and sanity than is income.

[Chiara]

Not sure where this idea that Penny is a control freak just because she had aspirations of becoming an actress when she moved to LA.

The idea that Penny is a control freak does not stem necessarily from the fact that she moved from Nebraska to LA or from her desire to become an actress. Those two things are perfectly fine and tell us nothing about Penny as a person. 

 

Other details, on the other hand, do indicate a serious inability to let go of control. 

 

The most obvious in my eyes is the whole ILY saga.

Now, I understand that the real reason why it took so long for Penny to say ILY to Leonard is because the writers had made such a big deal of Leonard's love declaration and his girlfriends' subpar response, using it to justify a narratively-required breakup (The Wheaton Recurrence), that, three years later, Penny's own admission had to pack a serious punch not to be seen as underwhelming. So TPTB bided their time and teased the audience for a while in order to give the moment maximum momentum. Sidenote : it worked !

But if we remove those technical and "meta" considerations, we have to figure out why Penny, as a "person", did not tell the man she loves about her feelings sooner. She has known of her love for him for years, at the absolute latest since mid-to-late season five (very possibly even earlier than that). So why didn't she say anything the very moment they got back together ? Or at least in the lab, after she remembered why she loves him so much (The Holographic Excitation) ? The only explanation I can find is that, by holding back on the ILY front, she was keeping the pacing of the relationship (and her own emotions) under control. As long as she did not give Leonard the absolute, final confirmation of her love for him, she could stop him from getting carried away and herself from getting dragged along with him. 

That is serious control freakery.

 

As for her career, in and by itself, it does not speak of her control issues. However, her ability to hold onto her "plan" for six years does.

Her plan is to become a successful actress. And for years, she decided that, until she had reached that goal, nothing in her life was worth seriously committing to. It takes some incredible strength of character and, yes, control freakery to make oneself behave like that. It means that, for close to a decade, she always found ways to devise some loophole in order not to get too attached, always put everything on the emotional backburner while she kept her eyes on what she thought was the prize. Talk about determination and self-control. Penny is a force to reckon with when she wants to be. 

 

My problem with Penny's dad is that he never mentioned what a good man Leonard was, how well he treated his daughter, or how happy Penny was when she was with him.   All he focused on was Leonard's income potential.  Had I a daughter I would much rather have her marry someone who treated her well and made her happy even though he didn't make much money then marry a rich guy who treated her like crap and made her life miserable.

Wyatt is a piece of work. On the one hand, he seems like a fantastic dad : warm, caring, affectionate, sweet, etc. On the other appendix, his "aspirations" for his daughter are... underwhelming, to say the least. His dream for her is that she does not end up in a trailer ? That is not great.

 

Now, I understand that Penny dated some serious losers in the past and Wyatt may have adjusted his ambitions to that. But I found it a bit sad for him not to have bigger expectations for his daughter. Maybe this is where Penny's laziness comes from ? Perhaps, after years of not being challenged in anyway and not feeling like anyone was expecting anything exceptional from her, she just gave up and decided not to bother. 

 

Do not get me wrong. I am sure Wyatt and his yet-unnamed wife were good parents to their kids. It is clear the writers meant for Penny's dad to be a very sympathetic figure and, in that regard, he did not disappoint. But considering Penny's chronic laziness issue and her brother's "freelance chemistry" business, it is possible to assume that Mommy and Daddy X did not always provide their children with the highest level of guidance. 

[SRAM]

I don't think Penny is a control freak, but I do think the writers make her the dominate force in the Lenny relationship to control the growth of the Leonard character. Think about Leonard right now, he is at a great place in his career, he has a great support group of friends, he is in a relationship with the love of his life, he is living the dream in Leonardville. His ego should be through the roof, he should even be a little cocky and he should be snorting in derision every time Sheldon makes on of his I'm better than you comments. But that cannot happen, because Leonard must remain nerdy Leonard, Sheldon's driver and friend he can use and abuse. Penny is just used by the writers to keep Leonard down. What should happen in season 7 is that the writers should continue what they started in Season 6 and Leonard and Penny should be relationship equals, but that will impact Sheldon, so who knows what will really happen.

[rickfromillinois]

I really think he was referring to Leonard's intelligence and sanity than is income.

Really?  Hence the statement about not wanting his grandchildren growing up in a house with wheels?   Seems pretty clear that he was talking about finances to me.

Edited September 13, 2013 by rickfromillinois

[Chrismo]

 I think the point of the "Good Guy" episode was to show that Leonard had a higher ethical standard then most men in that situation and to show that Penny still expected him to be that way.

 

It is hard to judge someone from another culture using the norms from your culture.   Many from India still adhere to the caste system.  The only man that Priya's partents would approve of for her is an Indian male from the uppper caste.   No one is trying to excuse Leonard's actions, but there is no parity between his actions and Priya's.   He had the chance to sleep with someone else and didn't.  She had a chance to sleep with somone else and did.   He confessed his transgressions, she only did after his confession.   Kissing someone else and sleeping with someone else is not the same. 

 

Most men in Leonard's position would have slept with Alice. To me that's mostly speculation. But you are correct about Penny's high expectations of him.

Since Priya (and Leonard) both seemed to know her parents beliefs maybe their relationship should have never started or got as far as it did. In a way though you are excusing Leonard's action because what he did was "less wrong". I remember when Penny slept with Raj and all the uproar. To me Penny in that scenerio was "less wrong" than Leonard but people sure seemed to be upset about that.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

Wyatt is a piece of work. On the one hand, he seems like a fantastic dad : warm, caring, affectionate, sweet, etc. On the other appendix, his "aspirations" for his daughter are... underwhelming, to say the least. His dream for her is that she does not end up in a trailer ? That is not great.

 

Now, I understand that Penny dated some serious losers in the past and Wyatt may have adjusted his ambitions to that. But I found it a bit sad for him not to have bigger expectations for his daughter. Maybe this is where Penny's laziness comes from ? Perhaps, after years of not being challenged in anyway and not feeling like anyone was expecting anything exceptional from her, she just gave up and decided not to bother. 

 

Do not get me wrong. I am sure Wyatt and his yet-unnamed wife were good parents to their kids. It is clear the writers meant for Penny's dad to be a very sympathetic figure and, in that regard, he did not disappoint. But considering Penny's chronic laziness issue and her brother's "freelance chemistry" business, it is possible to assume that Mommy and Daddy X did not always provide their children with the highest level of guidance. 

To be fair I don't think Wyatt's dreams for Penny are limited to 'not living in a trailer', more that that is the minimum acceptable outcome. All of the guys Penny dated in Omaha were losers so Leonard is the greatest thing that could happen to Penny. He knows Penny wouldn't stay with Leonard if she wasn't happy so he doesn't need to go pointing out how happy he makes her. She was happy with the idiots and losers too, so he focused on what made Leonard better, the fact that he wasn't an idiot or a loser.

[phantagrae]

Apparently we're going to see Leonard's mom in the episode that airs 10/10 (ep 4, I think.)

[Fruit Loop]

Really?  Hence the statement about not wanting his grandchildren growing up in a house with wheels?   Seems pretty clear that he was talking about finances to me.

Growing up in a House without wheels is more about being stable than making big money. Maybe because I am senior citizen, I remember Trailer Parks as Low life loser homes for Trailer Trash People. I live in Florida and today there are many up scale Mobile/Manufactured Home communities.

Point here is Wyatt's expectation for Penny is not real High.

///

Edited September 13, 2013 by Fruit Loop

[ArmyGirl]

Apparently we're going to see Leonard's mom in the episode that airs 10/10 (ep 4, I think.)

 

I'm sure it will have something to do with Sheldon, and if not about Sheldon it will be to tell Leonard once again that he isn't a man and buck up. Can't have any kind of love or approval for Leonard from the woman he calls mother.

 

 

Thanks for the information.

[Tensor]

And the comments about mixing poop and water, beer pong petitions, not tipping cows over on themselves, about being able to use a napkin, indicate how far Leonard was intellectually above the type of guy she had dated previously

Or how Leonard's went to college, is a scientist, compared to her other boyfriends who have neck tattoos, outstanding warrants, or a baby. And how her father went on for a half an hour on what a great guy Leonard is, before Penny left. Those really have nothing to do with his earnings and more to do with his suitability beyond his earnings.