Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[3ku11]

I agree the dynamic of the group is changing and it has to in order for the show to be credible.  Most of the characters are in their mid- thirties and it would be stupid to have them in the same position as when the show started, imo.   I feel TPTB are stretching it as is with Leonard still living with Sheldon --- I guess we should be glad they do offer us episodes where Leonard do try to move out, even if they don't let it happen.  I mean the writers allowed Howard to grow up some and get married, he even moved out of his mother house.  Yet Leonard is still stuck with Sheldon.... how is that believable?  Of course Howard kid side still shows up but at least he was allowed to make some major movement. 

 

As for Penny proposing to Leonard in the hallway --- I hope NOT!  We finally get the first 'I Love You' from Penny and it's oh let's not make a big deal about.  That really disappointed me and I want, no loyal Leonard and Penny fans deserves something better than a cheap hallway proposal since we had to wait almost six years to hear Penny tell Leonard she loved him.  If writers came pen big moments for Shamy, I don't see why the same can't be done of Lenny.

 

 

Beverly is one of those people that really should not be parents.  People like her do more damage than good to their children and never accept any of the responsibility for the damage they cause in their children lives.   She and Sheldon are like to two sides of a coin and it's always about them and their needs.

I agree with most of your points but I don't think Penny is a bad person or the writers have been disloyal to Lenny fans or fans of the show in general just because it took Penny six years to tell Leonard she loves him. It also took her that long to realize she wants to be with him and only him. Lenny has been a work in progress from the pilot, so IMO it is riduclous to complain about something that is the very core of Lenny. Far as i'm concerned when Leonard and Penny first met, their was no set time frame or no perceived or implied obligation from Penny that she had to feel huge depth of feelings straight away for Leonard, just because he is a great guy. Penny and Leonard were two very different people in very different places then, the initial premise was the nerd desiring the hot girl next door from across the hall. Since then though they have both matured in their lifes and in their relationship, Penny now has the depth to actulize and now articulate her emotions properly, where as previousley she diddn't. As it stands Penny has the power when it comes to a proposal, that may change as Series Seven progresses, but doesen't look like it. We have always known Leonard wants to be with Penny, Penny only now is revealing she wants Leonard and know one else too. But I think theirs still a while to wait before a proposal, they are not really ready, I think Leonard needs to meet Penny's parents first. And the proposal needs to be genuine not because Penny gets insecure seeing him with Alex again or maybe Priya shows up, sure reveal insecurties, but it shoulden't be the catalyst behind a proposal. Penny needs to come to the realization her self.

Edited September 16, 2013 by 3ku11

[Tensor]

The hallway shall stand strong until the end of TBBT probably. So will the broken elevator (that will be fixed in the show's last ever episode, mark my words !)

I've said before we won't see it fixed. As the last of the group's residents (be it Penny and Leonard or Amy and Sheldon (or perhaps both couples!)) are moving out and leaving the building for the last time, two guys enter the lobby and ask if this is the building with the broke elevator, as they are there to fix it.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Tensor

[hamerman55]

I wonder if the writers have any sort of rules or guidelines for how the relarionships get treated. Things like Lenny never having a serious moment without Sheldon. I guess what I am thinking is whether these situations are deliberate, or just their gut approach. A lot of artists do their work and never look at it again. In this case, we watch episodes over and over, so our perspective will be different than a writer that has to crank out a new script every week or so. They are just trying to be funny, so it could be that Sheldon and Amy alone is inherently funny because of their quirks, while Penny and Leonard, being a more normal relationship, is inherently serious and needs Sheldon to make the scene funny. They do write the couples alone if they are dealing with serious stuff, like reacting to a relationship crisis. I'll have to consider whether Sheldon barging in is to make a sweet scene funny, while Lenny is left alone when something has to be deal with. The goodbye in the airport is a sweet scene that wasn't necessarily funny (although it could have been, who knows?) so Sheldon's presence lightened it up. when Lenny were dealing with important stuff like Penny's insecurities about Alex or the first ILY, they were alone. Shamy have no sweet scenes yet, so there isn't anything to lighten up. Their relationship scenes are inherently funny as Sheldon is just too odd to seem at all normal.

[3ku11]

I wonder if the writers have any sort of rules or guidelines for how the relarionships get treated. Things like Lenny never having a serious moment without Sheldon. I guess what I am thinking is whether these situations are deliberate, or just their gut approach. A lot of artists do their work and never look at it again. In this case, we watch episodes over and over, so our perspective will be different than a writer that has to crank out a new script every week or so. They are just trying to be funny, so it could be that Sheldon and Amy alone is inherently funny because of their quirks, while Penny and Leonard, being a more normal relationship, is inherently serious and needs Sheldon to make the scene funny. They do write the couples alone if they are dealing with serious stuff, like reacting to a relationship crisis. I'll have to consider whether Sheldon barging in is to make a sweet scene funny, while Lenny is left alone when something has to be deal with. The goodbye in the airport is a sweet scene that wasn't necessarily funny (although it could have been, who knows?) so Sheldon's presence lightened it up. when Lenny were dealing with important stuff like Penny's insecurities about Alex or the first ILY, they were alone. Shamy have no sweet scenes yet, so there isn't anything to lighten up. Their relationship scenes are inherently funny as Sheldon is just too odd to seem at all normal.

I think from the pilot the arch of the show has been L/P/S, so most of S3 had Sheldon playing hypnotenuse between Lenny. I think from a writers standpoint, they saw alot of comedy of the relationship of Lenny disrupting his routine and order of his life, as Penny is a free spirit, perky, spontanous e.t.c. Sheldon's not haha he's nuerotic, compulsive, analytical & logical e.t.c. So moments like Sheldon waking up and Penny making Pancakes not aware its not Pancake morning haha, can really get under Sheldon's skin. Just like in 2x02 The Terminator Decoupling, Sheldon left his USB behind, and Penny was giving him hard time "What's up Moonpie?" Penny always loves getting under

Sheldon's skin, similar to Leslie Wrinkle in way. But thats just an example of Sheldon and Penny's Brother-Sister sibling relationship. The L/P/S arch was a highlight of S3, remember when L/S got robbed Lenny was trying to go to sleep but Sheldon wouldent let them haha. But I think the wrirers now when it comes to touching moments, need to leave the L/P/S Arch out, like the car scene in S6 finalie, Sheldon was behaving like a petulant little child, usually Sheldon is part of the arch of L/P, to offer light comedic releif, but on this ocasion it was a defining moment for Lenny, and it was just out of place. Most of the touching, serious moments between Lenny since S1 have not involved Sheldon tho; When Penng broke up with DU in The Bath Item Gift Hypothesis, that was about Lenny. S1 Finalie Leonard asks out Penny, Penny in S1 organised a BDay party for Leonard, that waa a nice moment.

[JonRS92]

I agree the dynamic of the group is changing and it has to in order for the show to be credible. Most of the characters are in their mid- thirties and it would be stupid to have them in the same position as when the show started, imo. I feel TPTB are stretching it as is with Leonard still living with Sheldon --- I guess we should be glad they do offer us episodes where Leonard do try to move out, even if they don't let it happen. I mean the writers allowed Howard to grow up some and get married, he even moved out of his mother house. Yet Leonard is still stuck with Sheldon.... how is that believable? Of course Howard kid side still shows up but at least he was allowed to make some major movement.

As for Penny proposing to Leonard in the hallway --- I hope NOT! We finally get the first 'I Love You' from Penny and it's oh let's not make a big deal about. That really disappointed me and I want, no loyal Leonard and Penny fans deserves something better than a cheap hallway proposal since we had to wait almost six years to hear Penny tell Leonard she loved him. If writers came pen big moments for Shamy, I don't see why the same can't be done of Lenny.

I never really thought about Leonard still living with Sheldon. Maybe TPTB are keeping them together longer than is believable because their relationship is the heart of the show. While the writers have not moved Penny to a point where she is comfortable living with Leonard I could see them moving her in with Leonard and Sheldon soon and maybe having Amy take Penny's apartment. It still wouldn't be very realistic but I could see the writers building on the themes they started with before with Leonard and Penny as parents and Sheldon as the child.

As for the "I love you" moment in the hallway...I liked how it was done. The pure casualness with which she said it suited the hallway and made it all the more believable that she meant it. It was a big deal for the viewers and Leonard but I don't think it was a big deal for her until she thought about it. We've known as viewers that she loved him and I think she knew she did too but was just afraid to say it or was afraid to admit it to herself. That she said it in a moment of frustration when she let her guard down suited where it happened. As for the writers doing a better job with Shamy I think that might be partly true and partly just impression. We expect Leonard and Penny to express their feelings and act normal. We expect them to express love. We don't expect Sheldon to do it so when he does express genuine feelings it hits harder.

I just hope then when the proposal comes that it gets the impact that it should. The moment should feel big.

[Chrismo]

I agree the dynamic of the group is changing and it has to in order for the show to be credible.  Most of the characters are in their mid- thirties and it would be stupid to have them in the same position as when the show started, imo.   I feel TPTB are stretching it as is with Leonard still living with Sheldon --- I guess we should be glad they do offer us episodes where Leonard do try to move out, even if they don't let it happen.  I mean the writers allowed Howard to grow up some and get married, he even moved out of his mother house.  Yet Leonard is still stuck with Sheldon.... how is that believable?  Of course Howard kid side still shows up but at least he was allowed to make some major movement. 

 

As for Penny proposing to Leonard in the hallway --- I hope NOT!  We finally get the first 'I Love You' from Penny and it's oh let's not make a big deal about.  That really disappointed me and I want, no loyal Leonard and Penny fans deserves something better than a cheap hallway proposal since we had to wait almost six years to hear Penny tell Leonard she loved him.  If writers came pen big moments for Shamy, I don't see why the same can't be done of Lenny.

 

 

 

Leonard will eventually move out. Howard is not a main character in the show compared to Leonard so it was easier to do something dramatic with Howard. You are mixing apples and oranges comparing Howard and Leonard. S/L apartment has become less of a factor in season 6 comapred  to other seasons. In regards to Penny's ILY that was totally in character for those two. To me Penny should propose in the hallway. That's where it all began especially for Leonard. It wouldn't even bother me if Sheldon was there. In many ways he should be there. He's had an influence on them more than anyone else. I don't think loyal Lenny fans(myself included) care where it happens but it does happen. i didn't even like Howard's proposal because Penny should have been there.  It seems ironic to me that you want a dramatic proposal since Leonard himself doesn't want that.(no jumbo-tron) In regards to the Shamy and big moments I really don't have a scorecard comparing big Lenny and Shamy moments. That sounds like something Sheldon would do.

[JonRS92]

Leonard will eventually move out. Howard is not a main character in the show compared to Leonard so it was easier to do something dramatic with Howard. You are mixing apples and oranges comparing Howard and Leonard. S/L apartment has become less of a factor in season 6 comapred to other seasons. In regards to Penny's ILY that was totally in character for those two. To me Penny should propose in the hallway. That's where it all began especially for Leonard. It wouldn't even bother me if Sheldon was there. In many ways he should be there. He's had an influence on them more than anyone else. I don't think loyal Lenny fans(myself included) care where it happens but it does happen. i didn't even like Howard's proposal because Penny should have been there. It seems ironic to me that you want a dramatic proposal since Leonard himself doesn't want that.(no jumbo-tron) In regards to the Shamy and big moments I really don't have a scorecard comparing big Lenny and Shamy moments. That sounds like something Sheldon would do.

As I read your posts you are starting to convince me that maybe the proposal should happen in the hallway. The logic and the symmetry fit. He first saw her there, decided to ask her out again there and heard that she loves him there. As for Leonard not wanting it to be a big deal...I think you are wrong there. Remember he asked for to be on one knee, flowers, and for her to sweep him off his feet. That sounds like big to me even if he did say no jumbotron.

[Chrismo]

As I read your posts you are starting to convince me that maybe the proposal should happen in the hallway. The logic and the symmetry fit. He first saw her there, decided to ask her out again there and heard that she loves him there. As for Leonard not wanting it to be a big deal...I think you are wrong there. Remember he asked for to be on one knee, flowers, and for her to sweep him off his feet. That sounds like big to me even if he did say no jumbotron.

You are right about wanting the big deal. I just don't think he wants a big public proposal. Penny can do all the things he wants (and you mentioned) in the hallway.

[JonRS92]

You are right about wanting the big deal. I just don't think he wants a big public proposal. Penny can do all the things he wants (and you mentioned) in the hallway.

Agreed. It will be interesting to see what her definition of sweeping him off his feet is. Will she plan something like his birthday or will it be spontaneous like the ILY?

[Carlos]

It seems ironic to me that you want a dramatic proposal since Leonard himself doesn't want that.(no jumbo-tron) 

 

Leonard didn't say he doesn't want a dramatic proposal, he just said no to the jumbotron, but he said he wanted roses, Penny down on one knee, the whole thing. He said he wanted to be swept off his feet. I think it has to be a dramatic moment because it is the longest lasting relationship in the show, and the most important in the sense that it is the one the show's based one more than any other except Sheldon/Leonard (but that's not romantic).

[ArmyGirl]

Leonard didn't say he doesn't want a dramatic proposal, he just said no to the jumbotron, but he said he wanted roses, Penny down on one knee, the whole thing. He said he wanted to be swept off his feet. I think it has to be a dramatic moment because it is the longest lasting relationship in the show, and the most important in the sense that it is the one the show's based one more than any other except Sheldon/Leonard (but that's not romantic).

 

 

Thanks Carlos. 

 

Of course it has to be dramatic to a point it's Leonard and Penny and some effort and thought should be put into it. 

[I.Am.Molly]

I actually really like the idea of Penny proposing in the hallway. If not there i cansee it on the roof, but i would prefer the hallway. Ha! Imagine if she done it in the comic bookstore! I think i would quite like that actually. 

 

I agree with chrismo though, the hallway has been the setting for s omuch of their relationship it would be so fitting for it to be there. And as for it not being romantic enough, there was a brilliant fanfiction written not so long ago where Penny plans to propose in the hallway with flowers and those little tealight candles scattered around. It was incredibly romantic, and something i could definitely see happen in the show,and done really well. Also, i dont think Leonard really cares where, or when, or how she proposes. Yes, i know he said he wants the whole nine yards but i think when it comes down to it, he could care less if she asked him in the most romatic place, or on the fricken bus! All he would care about is that she actually asked him, the rest is trivial really.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

The hallway shall stand strong until the end of TBBT probably. So will the broken elevator (that will be fixed in the show's last ever episode, mark my words !)

I've said before we won't see it fixed. As the last of the group's residents (be it Penny and Leonard or Amy and Sheldon (or perhaps both couples!)) are moving out and leaving the building for the last time, two guys enter the lobby and ask if this is the building with the broke elevator, as they are there to fix it.

If we do see it fixed before the end of the show it will probably only work for one episode, just long enough for someone to get stuck in it. Now that I think about it that would be a great way to set up another weird pairing for an episode. Maybe have Sheldon and Bernadette stuck together in the elevator for an entire episode.

[Chiara]

Leonard didn't say he doesn't want a dramatic proposal, he just said no to the jumbotron, but he said he wanted roses, Penny down on one knee, the whole thing. He said he wanted to be swept off his feet. I think it has to be a dramatic moment because it is the longest lasting relationship in the show, and the most important in the sense that it is the one the show's based one more than any other except Sheldon/Leonard (but that's not romantic).

I understand the desire for something spectacular and, to a certain extent, I feel it too. Nevertheless, I wonder if that would truly fit their relationship.

 

Their couple is not conventionally romantic. They do not do flowers and long walks on the beach and champagne and teddy bears and diamond earrings. They do cryogenised snowflakes and Justice League costumes and shooting ranges and heart lockets and sex in the lab. Whenever they try a more traditional approach to romance, (e.g. Valentine's Day dinner at an upscale restaurant), it fails miserably for it is not true to them, as people and as a couple. Penny and Leonard are not good at cliché things; the former because she hates it and the latter because he is too inexperienced (and sometimes too excited) to get it just right. 

 

Theirs is an understated, awkward union. In my opinion, it is one of the reasons why it is so engrossing to watch and so easy to fall in love with : it is the story of two people who have no idea what they are doing but know they want to do it together. There is a lot of charm and appeal in that. 

So while Leonard has stated he wants Penny to sweep him off his feet in a conventional way, I doubt it will happen. Not so much the "sweeping off one's feet" part for, let us be honest, no matter how Penny proposes, Leonard will be swept off his feet... and cry... or faint... or get an asthma attack (he is a very emotional guy), but the "conventional way" bit. 

Penny will probably mess it up in some fashion : either she will plan something big which will fail to materialise or she will just go for brokes and propose as best as she can with whatever limited means she has at the time, McGyver style. Either way, she will not nail it but every word will be heartfelt. 

That's worth something, surely ?

 

 

PS As for the elevator, I stand my ground. We will see that thing move before the last ever closing credits ! I have faith !

Edited September 16, 2013 by Chiara

[Carlos]

I agree it could be in the hallway, but I also think, based on canon that it should be something special. Doesn't need to be big, but it does need to be special because of how invested we (all) are in this relationship, and IMHO it should just be Penny and Leonard, and should not be cheapened by any attempt at humor coming from exteernal sources

[I.Am.Molly]

I agree it could be in the hallway, but I also think, based on canon that it should be something special. Doesn't need to be big, but it does need to be special because of how invested we (all) are in this relationship, and IMHO it should just be Penny and Leonard, and should not be cheapened by any attempt at humor coming from exteernal sources

 

Humour is the whole basis of this show. No matter what happens in it, there is going to be some humour involved. Just because it will be funny to some extent though, doenst mean it will be 'cheapened'. It can still be special, and funny, and i have no doubt that it will be both. I really dont think it is going to be perfect, something, somewhere will go wrong, but that doesnt mean it will make it any less special. The fact she will actually be proposing is special enough, that even if everything that could go wrong, does go wrong, Leonard will still love it, and I will still squeal from feels over it, as im sure many, and most of us Lennys will.

[rickfromillinois]

I never really thought about Leonard still living with Sheldon. Maybe TPTB are keeping them together longer than is believable because their relationship is the heart of the show. While the writers have not moved Penny to a point where she is comfortable living with Leonard I could see them moving her in with Leonard and Sheldon soon and maybe having Amy take Penny's apartment. It still wouldn't be very realistic but I could see the writers building on the themes they started with before with Leonard and Penny as parents and Sheldon as the child.

As for the "I love you" moment in the hallway...I liked how it was done. The pure casualness with which she said it suited the hallway and made it all the more believable that she meant it. It was a big deal for the viewers and Leonard but I don't think it was a big deal for her until she thought about it. We've known as viewers that she loved him and I think she knew she did too but was just afraid to say it or was afraid to admit it to herself. That she said it in a moment of frustration when she let her guard down suited where it happened. As for the writers doing a better job with Shamy I think that might be partly true and partly just impression. We expect Leonard and Penny to express their feelings and act normal. We expect them to express love. We don't expect Sheldon to do it so when he does express genuine feelings it hits harder.

I just hope then when the proposal comes that it gets the impact that it should. The moment should feel big.

I have no problem beieving that Leonard and Sheldon are still room mates. They have their differences and arguments, but they also do allot together even though they both now have girlfriends. 

[fixitmr]

Has anyone watched the S7 PROMO .... it took me a second viewing to spot PENNY screaming in a shower ...

could this be the scene from the unreleased movie that she was so worried about and that everyone was making a big deal about .....

 

NOT as bad as everyone thought it would be EH ....... This could be why Leonard was saying "that's my girlfriend" not exploiting Penny but saying I know her very well .....  

Edited September 17, 2013 by fixitmr

[JonRS92]

Has anyone watched the S7 PROMO .... it took me a second viewing to spot PENNY screaming in a shower ...

could this be the scene from the unreleased movie that she was so worried about and that everyone was making a big deal about .....

 

NOT as bad as everyone thought it would be EH ....... This could be why Leonard was saying "that's my girlfriend" not exploiting Penny but saying I know her very well .....  

It is the same film I believe.  Of course we don't get to see Penny topless (darn it!) but we have to infer that this is what Leonard is showing.  I think that is what had people upset.  I'm going to wait and see it.  From what I understand it is just a throw-away scene that probably wont come up again.

[eirwinrommel]

If we do see it fixed before the end of the show it will probably only work for one episode, just long enough for someone to get stuck in it. Now that I think about it that would be a great way to set up another weird pairing for an episode. Maybe have Sheldon and Bernadette stuck together in the elevator for an entire episode.

How about the proposal with Leonard and Penny stuck in the elevator? They are in there talking about their relationship over time (clip show) and Penny decides to propose to Leonard just as the elevator gets fixed, or she goes down on one knee as they step into the hall.

Edited September 17, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[3ku11]

How about the proposal with Leonard and Penny stuck in the elevator? They are in there talking about their relationship over time (clip show) and Penny decides to propose to Leonard just as the elevator gets fixed, or she goes down on one knee as they step into the hall.

Yeah I have always wanted a proposal that featured the elevator, maybe Leonard and Penny have an arugment and Penny walks off and jumps into the elevator, and Leonard is like Penny what are you doing, he jumps in they both get stucked as it is non-functioning. They are stuck in their for a few hrs and forced to come to term with all their issues, and their past relationships through a clip show are revealed, and the both come to the realization in a moment that they want to be together. As they step out Leonard starts to walk back to their apartment, and Penny gets on one knee and proposes, revealing she planned this the whole time or not lol.

[Carlos]

Humour is the whole basis of this show. No matter what happens in it, there is going to be some humour involved. Just because it will be funny to some extent though, doenst mean it will be 'cheapened'.

 

I almost agree with everything you say, even if I much rather have it be a serious moment. However if you refer to my post which you quoted, you'll see that I wrote that I didn't want to have it cheapened with humor coming from external sources. I agree if there is humor, ti can still be special, but I think it should come from Leonard and Penny themselves. Contrary to what somebody else said I REALLY don't want Sheldon intruding.

[SRAM]

Watched the Tenure Turbulence, Penny and Leonard were so in the Team Hofstadter mode, it made the episode so great. I guess that is what is disappointing about 7.03, Team Hofstadter is forgotten.

[Chiara]

Watched the Tenure Turbulence, Penny and Leonard were so in the Team Hofstadter mode, it made the episode so great. I guess that is what is disappointing about 7.03, Team Hofstadter is forgotten.

It is somewhat disappointing to see them apart, I agree. But let us not forget we will get our fix of Team Hofstadter in 7.02. That is the thing with partnerships : there are ups and downs. 7.03 is a down : Leonard refuses to associate with Penny out of fear she will cause him to lose, she feels insulted, they fight it out through the medium of the scavenger hunt and Penny gets to prove herself, once again, a valuable asset to any team.  

In a way, it is an important fight for them to have and for it to be resolved in such a fashion is as good a reminder of the special worth of TBBT's very own Bonnie Parker as any. 

Also, 7.03 still shows us Leonard and Penny in Team Hofstadter/X (sorry, had to include Penny in there) mode : neither is interested in the scavenger hunt in and by itself; both are committed to proving themselves to each other. Leonard wants Penny to see that he is not a "pussy" (insult courtesy of the Diabolical Imp that is Bernadette) and Penny wants to show Leonard she is not an idiot. 

The competition between them helps highlight how much they value each other's opinions.

In spite of the relatively smooth sailing experience that was the second half of the sixth season, Penny and Leonard still have some issues, both as individuals and as a couple, that need to be worked out. A lover's spat here and there does not jeopardise or negate all the progress they have made so far; it furthers it.

 

I too remember the time when every fight between Leonard and Penny had the potential to dismantle the relationship (yeah, seasons three and five, I'm talkin' to you). But we are past that stage. They now have the ability to use their disagreements and confrontations as stepping stones. 7.03 may very well be one of those cases.

 

In the meantime, we can sit back, relax and enjoy the prospect of Leonard's reaction when Evil Bernadette tells him of Penny's (completely untrue) view of him. That puppy is going to growl up a storm !

Edited September 17, 2013 by Chiara

[Misophonia]

Misophonia last year put on her report that it shouldn't be taken literally, but as a general guide to how the episode plays out.  

 

Actually, Jennifer mention that Leonard found it when she moved in.  Leonard on the internet, trying to find out more about her, more than finding her before she moved in.  

 

Umm ... What report? Perhaps we have me confused with someone else? I have written no report.