Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Nogravitasatall]

They all do over share. When will they grow up? *sigh*.

[Tensor]

Complete secrets, between the characters in this show, have always been few and far between.

[Nogravitasatall]

I need to be shown the icon:rhetorical. Lol

If they kept their mouths shut... it would be like the Buffy episode "Hush". Hmm, let's see then homage/ripoff that bit of genius

[eirwinrommel]

Good idea for an episode. Sheldon can't talk, type, write or use sign language.

Edited September 18, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[carl1970]

Leonard loves being with Penny and one of the ways he likes to show these feelings with Penny is by having sex with her. So Penny rocks Leonard's world in the bedroom and it must be pretty awesome for her as well.

[ArmyGirl]

Good idea for an episode. Sheldon can't talk, type, write or use sign language.

 

 or be seen.        

[JonRS92]

So far we have one scene and two episodes showing a little more devious side of Leonard. I wont go so far as to say I am worried yet. Most of us interested in this relationship have said that we can handle issues as long as there is not another break up. That seems like what we are getting. She didn't break up with him and I am not convinced that it is the direction they are heading. One thing to remember is that season six didn't start out so hot for the two of them either and look how good it all turned out. It can't all be good for them or it will get boring. I'd rather they get the bumps out now rather than later on. Also, I can't believe that the writers would just throw out an entire season where they built this couple up. From episode 6.5 all the way up to the end of season 6 they built these two up with major character building along thew way. Both Leonard and Penny are better partners. That's what has me a little concerned with Leonard's actions in 7.4 as it seems to be out of character although I guess you could see hints of this change in Leonard coming. Starting back in season 5 the seeds were planted for this. Now, if the writers still have Leonard doing this stuff toward the middle of the season then I will get worried.

Edited September 19, 2013 by JonRS92

[SRAM]

So far we have one scene and two episodes showing a little more devious side of Leonard. I wont go so far as to say I am worried yet. Most of us interested in this relationship have said that we can handle issues as long as there is not another break up. That seems like what we are getting. She didn't break up with him and I am not convinced that it is the direction they are heading. One thing to remember is that season six didn't start out so hot for the two of them either and look how good it all turned out. It can't all be good for them or it will get boring. I'd rather they get the bumps out now rather than later on. Also, I can't believe that the writers would just throw out an entire season where they built this couple up. From episode 6.5 all the way up to the end of season 6 they built these two up with major character building along thew way. Both Leonard and Penny are better partners. That's what has me a little concerned with Leonard's actions in 7.4 as it seems to be out of character although I guess you could see hints of this change in Leonard coming. Starting back in season 5 the seeds were planted for this. Now, if the writers still have Leonard doing this stuff toward the middle of the season then I will get worried.

 

 

I understand what you are saying, but remember the season 6 low was episode 6.02.  Now we have 7.04 and still have no indication that they have reached a low.

[3ku11]

I understand what you are saying, but remember the season 6 low was episode 6.02.  Now we have 7.04 and still have no indication that they have reached a low.

I think tho Leonard has come back with a new found confidence thanks to the expedition, Leonard is just being a typical guy monopolising the fact Penny bought the book to gain sex, I am sure Penny well find out they well have a spat, that well be that then they well make up.

[Nogravitasatall]

I think tho Leonard has come back with a new found confidence thanks to the expedition, Leonard is just being a typical guy monopolising the fact Penny bought the book to gain sex, I am sure Penny well find out they well have a spat, that well be that then they well make up.

Oh, I don't think its a deal breaker. I just hate the device of running to Leonard's mummy. This will be a one time thing but I think it is a disproportionate response from Penny. His mum and his lover ganging up on him just seems unfair to the max. And I don't hate Beverly, I just think she should not be able to exert any power over him, and Penny should back him against his mum, because, well that's how things should be, and in this domain to hell with solidarity amongst the sisterhood. Your partner comes first.

[SRAM]

Penny did use Beverly on Leonard the night they got drunk together.  Remember Beverly told Penny one of them should be offended and when Penny and her came back to the boys apartment, Penny yelled 'Leonard, you mom wants to talk to you'.  So Penny has unleashed Beverly on him before.

[JonRS92]

I understand what you are saying, but remember the season 6 low was episode 6.02. Now we have 7.04 and still have no indication that they have reached a low.

I started watching after season 6 was over. Was there an immediate realization at the time with 6.3 that all was going to be Well? For me I didn't think the relationship started to improve until 6.5. Then the ILY episode was not until 6.8. And there was still slight issues after that though I will grant you they were all resolved by episode end. Also I'm one who subscribes to the theory that 7.3 is only about having a Sheldon/penny dynamic and back and forth not meant to show any strain on Lenny. We'll see. If it keeps happening then I will worry but I am not there yet.

I think tho Leonard has come back with a new found confidence thanks to the expedition, Leonard is just being a typical guy monopolising the fact Penny bought the book to gain sex, I am sure Penny well find out they well have a spat, that well be that then they well make up.

I agree. I think we are seeing a new Leonard. It is actually quite a reversal for him to be playing her for sex as previously she used sex to manipulate him. Remember the first time Alex showed up? It is not time to start worrying yet. Edited September 19, 2013 by JonRS92

[Nogravitasatall]

Penny did use Beverly on Leonard the night they got drunk together. Remember Beverly told Penny one of them should be offended and when Penny and her came back to the boys apartment, Penny yelled 'Leonard, you mom wants to talk to you'. So Penny has unleashed Beverly on him before.

But since they teamed up from "Tenure" I had developed an expectation that they were a unit. This affronts that unity by calling in an external party that is his freakin' mother. This shows more disrespect for Leonard than any disrespect Leonard has shown for Penny. This takes him straight back to childhood. The man has only ever uplifted Penny and been proud of her. AND SHE CALLS HIS MUMMY ON HIM. How grown up is that. They are supposed be striving towards a level of adulthood and they just turned the 30ish super scientist back into a teenager. And Sheldon already has that spot. I've never been so outraged, because this is an attack on their independence.

I know its a one time thing but why, why, why hit the poor little bleeder in the knackers. So disappointed, at the moment.

[JonRS92]

But since they teamed up from "Tenure" I had developed an expectation that they were a unit. This affronts that unity by calling in an external party that is his freakin' mother. This shows more disrespect for Leonard than any disrespect Leonard has shown for Penny. This takes him straight back to childhood. The man has only ever uplifted Penny and been proud of her. AND SHE CALLS HIS MUMMY ON HIM. How grown up is that. They are supposed be striving towards a level of adulthood and they just turned the 30ish super scientist back into a teenager. And Sheldon already has that spot. I've never been so outraged, because this is an attack on their independence. I know its a one time thing but why, why, why hit the poor little bleeder in the knackers. So disappointed, at the moment.

I don't like it either but it does kind of fit with Penny's character. Wrong her and she's going to go all Nebraska on you. With that said I still think Lenny is a team. The scavenger hunt thing was not important. Lets see if they are a team when it is important like the tenure issue. Edited September 19, 2013 by JonRS92

[ArmyGirl]

I don't like it either but it does kind of fit with Penny's character. Wrong her and she's going to go all Nebraska on you. With that said I still think Lenny is a team. The scavenger hunt thing was not important. Lets see if they are a team when it is important like the tenure issue.

 

How many times has Penny wronged Leonard and he let's it go?  Leonard isn't prefect nor do I want him to be, I just want Penny to give back a little of what Leonard always give her 'unconditional love' and understand that Leonard is feeling his way through his first real long term relationship and he will trip and fall along the way.  Sure Penny could call him on it and tell him she is upset and he needs to give her time to get over it.

 

Penny knows how Beverly treats Leonard and how he feels about his childhood and I feel she should have handle it another way.

[Nogravitasatall]

I don't like it either but it does kind of fit with Penny's character. Wrong her and she's going to go all Nebraska on you. With that said I still think Lenny is a team. The scavenger hunt thing was not important. Lets see if they are a team when it is important like the tenure issue.

To me this hits right at the heart of the relationship. There needs to be some consequence to Penny for this, at least something that shows she knows she went too far. Why? Because how will she learn that this is not the right way to manage her relationship with Leonard. He may see her as antagonistic if she colludes with his mother again. It has to be a learning experience for her, otherwise she will be conspiring with his mother to continue to the process of belittlement that has been going on since his childhood. If she is going to be his partner she has to "support her man", not ally herself with the person that made him wet his bed when he was 14.

[JonRS92]

How many times has Penny wronged Leonard and he let's it go? Leonard isn't prefect nor do I want him to be, I just want Penny to give back a little of what Leonard always give her 'unconditional love' and understand that Leonard is feeling his way through his first real long term relationship and he will trip and fall along the way. Sure Penny could call him on it and tell him she is upset and he needs to give her time to get over it.Penny knows how Beverly treats Leonard and how he feels about his childhood and I feel she should have handle it another way.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. But just like it is in Penny's character to get revenge it is in Leonard's to forgive. He's done it with the whole group not just Penny. To be fair Penny is learning to forgive. She forgave him for looking at her history paper. She forgave the proposal during sex also. In addition, for all of Penny's many exploits I don't believe she has ever been in a real relationship either. In 6.2 she says shes been in love before but it felt different than what she felt for Leonard. I would argue that she was wrong. Shes never really experienced mutual love. What she thought was love wasn't but what she felt for Leonard was. As such she is feelimg her way through too. As late as ep 6.5 she thought that the relationship was all about pleasing her. Bernie and Amy had to set her right. But she is learning. They both are and they are both going to still make mistakes. I think that's all this is. Should penny have handled this better? Yes. It may not feel like it now but I think we are seeing growing pains that will only improve them. Of course I may just be giving the writers too much credit. We will see.

To me this hits right at the heart of the relationship. There needs to be some consequence to Penny for this, at least something that shows she knows she went too far. Why? Because how will she learn that this is not the right way to manage her relationship with Leonard. He may see her as antagonistic if she colludes with his mother again. It has to be a learning experience for her, otherwise she will be conspiring with his mother to continue to the process of belittlement that has been going on since his childhood. If she is going to be his partner she has to "support her man", not ally herself with the person that made him wet his bed when he was 14.

Oh I think it is a learning experience for her. I mentioned it in the previous post. Also I am sure the novelty on bringing back Christine played a part in this plot too. Maybe the writers thought it would be funny. Edited September 19, 2013 by JonRS92

[vasu]

hey guys... how are you .... back here after a long time...

 

read the spoilers for the first four episodes.... i have to say i am not impressed....

 

episode 1.----- seemed ooc for leonard and clearly it was just a way to get leonard out(him partying and all)....

 

episode 2----   seemed to me like a simply rehash of 3.1 where an episode supposed to be about L-P reunion is all about Sheldon and his feelings...what about Leonard's or Penny's feelings.......nothing new....boring and predictable.....  and how many times Sheldon acts selfishly but we never get to see others feeling betrayed by that...

 

episode 3--- again ooc for leonard ... again seemed to me this was a way to get more S-P interactions...that too was mostly annoying Sheldon .. rolling eyes penny....this type of comedy has been done to death ... nothing new ......

 

episode 4 --- so leonard lies to his girlfriend to get sex after all that has happened between them...now in season 7.... how much more pathetic can Leonard get......nice of Penny to trump him...

 

but it seems like Leonard always pays the price for everything wrong thing he does ... intentionally or unintentionally.....like the paper reading episode...when Leonard's intention was to just help her but did not know how...he went to sheldon who was of no help....but still he was taught a lesson....how many times have we seen Sheldon do things like that.....but never was taught a lesson

 

and penny ... how many times have we seen her do wrong... like in season 3 finale...she basically hurts leonard then throws him away ...shows no sympathy for Leonard with whom she broke up because she did not want to lead him on(yet does the same here but shows no sympathy) was never taught a lesson.... and after all the drama she created while Leonard was dating Priya....when they get back together...she almost breaks up with him again.....and only takes interest in him when Alex seemed to interested in Leonard....but again she was never taught a lesson or punished...

 

oh and she never showed leonard any sympathy when his mother told him about her divorce and death of his dog...which really seemed to upset Leonard but we never saw penny trying to console Leonard....

Edited September 19, 2013 by vasu

[Chiara]

But since they teamed up from "Tenure" I had developed an expectation that they were a unit. This affronts that unity by calling in an external party that is his freakin' mother. This shows more disrespect for Leonard than any disrespect Leonard has shown for Penny. This takes him straight back to childhood. The man has only ever uplifted Penny and been proud of her. AND SHE CALLS HIS MUMMY ON HIM. How grown up is that. They are supposed be striving towards a level of adulthood and they just turned the 30ish super scientist back into a teenager. And Sheldon already has that spot. I've never been so outraged, because this is an attack on their independence.

I know its a one time thing but why, why, why hit the poor little bleeder in the knackers. So disappointed, at the moment.

While I understand the disappointment it causes, I believe the call to Beverly is mostly due to a concern for symmetry : he uses his mother (and the trauma associated with her) to get what he wants; Penny uses his mother to deny him what he wants. It is over-the-top but not completely out of left field.

 

Penny wronged him before and he, too, went a bit crazy with his retaliation. Remember how he called her "stupid", or something to that effect, in The Ornithophobia Diffusion ? It was a "that escalated quickly" moment. I know Penny was not being his greatest supporter in that scene but his jab took it to a completely different level. 

The Lenny is no stranger to death matches. 

 

 

As for Leonard's behaviour in the episode, well... It is understandable. 

Leonard has always defined himself as the guy who cannot catch a break. That is his default setting and identity, both in his own eyes and in the writers'. Now, for the first time in his life, he has caught a break. Everything is going his way, both on the professional and the personal fronts : he was chosen by Hawking to go on a scientific mission; the data he helped bring back look promising; he is dating a beautiful, fun, smart young woman who, after many years of to-and-fro, finally said ILY; she missed him for four months and, after his return, overcame one of her fears and let him stay at her place for two full days; etc. 

I believe he has no bloody idea what to do with himself. Sure, he may be struttin' his stuff like he is 5'6'' but aside from that, he is completely ill-equipped to handle his current situation. So he goes overboard and mismanages his newly found leverage. Let's consider ourselves lucky he has not wet himself just yet !

 

I have said it before, I shall say it again : "Careful Icarus" seems to be the theme the writers have chosen to explore through Leonard in this season's early days. It looks like they are setting up the stage for a comeuppance, a teachable moment. 

TBBT is in its seventh season and, as much as I would love for it to, it is not going to go on forever. A ten/eleven-season run is highly probable which means that we are entering the end of the second act. And the hero always fails and makes the situation worse at this juncture of a three-act structure (I am truly sorry for boring you all again with that sort of talk but I believe it is relevant) : at that point in the story, the protagonist lacks the skills to achieve his/her goal (and the self-awareness to use those skills properly) so s/he buggers everything up. I think this is what we are seeing right now. 

It is a learning curve for Leonard but, let us not fear, he will get there (and so will Penny). I seriously doubt the writers can break them up now without messing up their whole story and attention rationing (a breakup needs time allotted to it to be done properly but between the Shamy, the Hernadette, Raj's quest for love, the geeky moments and the jokes... There simply is not enough of it for a separation to happen).

 

I foresee a big fight in the Lenny's nearish future. It may be ugly but it will be useful. It will set things straight, allow Leonard to develop the tools to handle success and happiness in a healthy fashion and give Penny the reassurance she may start needing.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Chiara

[gsxdoug]

Penny has every right to be pissed, and Leonard was using his mother, in the form of her book, to manipulate Penny. She used his mother to show him he went too far. Turn-about is fair play, as the saying goes.

Call me an optimist, but this episode will most likely have no impact on the forward movement of L/P. Its just another one-off, done for whatever laughs it can generate.

 

I see Chiara posted pretty much my same argument as I was typing this in.

Edited September 19, 2013 by gsxdoug

[Chrismo]

Penny did use Beverly on Leonard the night they got drunk together.  Remember Beverly told Penny one of them should be offended and when Penny and her came back to the boys apartment, Penny yelled 'Leonard, you mom wants to talk to you'.  So Penny has unleashed Beverly on him before.

You bring up an interesting point.  Leonard never told his mother he was going out with Penny. Sheldon pointed out her lack of education as a reason. Penny never knew she was coming for a visit till the day before. Should she have been mad? Probably. Unleashing Beverly might be a bit drastic but the difficult of her visit really had nothing to do with Penny. Leonard has never looked forward to seeing his mother and seems to prefer avoiding her at all costs. Flash forward to now Penny buys her book for a class (reasoning it was the shortest book) and then Leonard uses the book to his advantage for pity sex from Penny. Penny gets even and everyone's mad at Penny. It seems to me its time for Leonard to get the "big boy pants" on in regards to his mother.

[3ku11]

Oh, I don't think its a deal breaker. I just hate the device of running to Leonard's mummy. This will be a one time thing but I think it is a disproportionate response from Penny. His mum and his lover ganging up on him just seems unfair to the max. And I don't hate Beverly, I just think she should not be able to exert any power over him, and Penny should back him against his mum, because, well that's how things should be, and in this domain to hell with solidarity amongst the sisterhood. Your partner comes first.

Yeah fair enough but I think people are overstating things a tad here, always happen's since 7.01 a taping report comes out and people freak out, every time it turns out it is unfounded oh ok that's alright then lol, not saying it is the case this time around too but it is possible. I haven't read the entire taping report yet so I don't have all information at hand to make an informed opinion, but from what I gather Beverley wrote a book and included anecdotes of Leonard's past, bear in mind tho this happened before in S3, when Beverley visited the second time around, Penny took beverley drinking, and they got alot of comedy out of that, so this could be a story arch to find that comedy again. I always though Penny was insensitive to Leonard's need's though, he just found out his Parents got divorced and his Dog died, but to be fair Leonard diddn't tell Beverley about their relationship. Still Penny still got his mother drunk and brought her home, although Penny did stop short of saying "I'm sorry Beverley I can't talk about my BF's you know what". I'm assuming Bernie and Amy are involved too, this could be the classic Boy Vs Girl scenario, that has absoloutely no repercussions on Lenny at all, like you said the sisterhood. Maybe Penny and Bev plan to get one up back at Leonard, not in a mean spirited way but kind of the power in the relationship, Penny is very self independent, and she has always been in control of the realationship, now Leonard is showing more confidence she may want to proove something too I don't know, I am sure it won't be as bad when we see it airing on tv.

You bring up an interesting point.  Leonard never told his mother he was going out with Penny. Sheldon pointed out her lack of education as a reason. Penny never knew she was coming for a visit till the day before. Should she have been mad? Probably. Unleashing Beverly might be a bit drastic but the difficult of her visit really had nothing to do with Penny. Leonard has never looked forward to seeing his mother and seems to prefer avoiding her at all costs. Flash forward to now Penny buys her book for a class (reasoning it was the shortest book) and then Leonard uses the book to his advantage for pity sex from Penny. Penny gets even and everyone's mad at Penny. It seems to me its time for Leonard to get the "big boy pants" on in regards to his mother.

It sounds to me Penny is only reacting to Leonard's manipulation of the situation, kinda opposite to what happened in S3.

[ArmyGirl]

I said Penny had a right to come at Leonard for what he did.  What I don't agree with her bringing/talking to his mother about him.  Penny isn't clueless about Leonard and his mother relationship and how his childhood was.  Penny could have handle this it better to be honest.

 

Penny  is always over the top in her reaction when Leonard does something  she doesn't like. 

 

 

I would love for Leonard to find out Penny want to break up with him again back in Season Six and let him have an over the top moment and see how Penny would feel to be on the receiving end.

Edited September 19, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Chrismo]

How many times has Penny wronged Leonard and he let's it go?  Leonard isn't prefect nor do I want him to be, I just want Penny to give back a little of what Leonard always give her 'unconditional love' and understand that Leonard is feeling his way through his first real long term relationship and he will trip and fall along the way.  Sure Penny could call him on it and tell him she is upset and he needs to give her time to get over it.

 

Penny knows how Beverly treats Leonard and how he feels about his childhood and I feel she should have handle it another way.

 

I said Penny had a right to come at Leonard for what he did.  What I don't agree with her bringing/talking to his mother about him.  Penny isn't clueless about Leonard and his mother relationship and how his childhood was.  Penny could have handle this it better to be honest.

 

Penny  is always over the top in her reaction when Leonard does something  she doesn't like. 

 

 

I want Leonard to find out Penny want to break up with him again back in Season Six and let him have an over the top moment and see how Penny would feel to be on the receiving end.

But Leonard got pity sex by involving his mother to begin with. Penny does know about Leonard's relationship with his mother. Your wanting Penny to be honest but it's okay for Leonard to be dishonest? In six years of the show she's had an overreaction to everything she doesnt like? Its funny you mention the 6.2 almost break up. I just saw the psychic vortex? episode and I remember Leonard thinking about breaking up with Penny. In either case I'm not understanding what the point would be.

[vasu]

i have to say this again ....

 

really after everything that happened in his relationship with Penny after 6 six years.... Leonard craves for pity sex.... how pathetic...

 

oh Penny why are you still with Leonard???