Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[ArmyGirl]

But Leonard got pity sex by involving his mother to begin with. Penny does know about Leonard's relationship with his mother. Your wanting Penny to be honest but it's okay for Leonard to be dishonest? In six years of the show she's had an overreaction to everything she doesnt like? Its funny you mention the 6.2 almost break up. I just saw the psychic vortex? episode and I remember Leonard thinking about breaking up with Penny. In either case I'm not understanding what the point would be.

 

Penny can do things like this and Leonard never finds out about it.  Heck half of the group knows she wanted to dumped him yet he is left in the dark.  Now Leonard does something stupid in 7.04 and Penny finds out even before episode ends and for me that isn't fair.  If Leonard must be called on the carpet so should Penny.

Edited September 19, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Chrismo]

Penny can do things like this and Leonard never finds out about it.  Heck half of the group knows she wanted to dumped him yet he is left in the dark.  Now Leonard does something stupid in 7.04 and Penny finds out even before episode ends and for me that isn't fair.  If Leonard must be called on the carpet so should Penny.

The difference is Penny didn't do it but Leonard did. Also the group wants L/P together and that just as much or more for Leonard's benefit than Penny's

Edited September 19, 2013 by Chrismo

[ArmyGirl]

The difference is Penny didn't do it but Leonard did.

 

 

Doesn't change the fact she tried to dumped him but end up having sex with him instead.

[Chrismo]

Doesn't change the fact she tried to dumped him but end up having sex with him instead.

But the fact is she didn't. He seems to like pity sex with Penny anyways.

[3ku11]

I said Penny had a right to come at Leonard for what he did.  What I don't agree with her bringing/talking to his mother about him.  Penny isn't clueless about Leonard and his mother relationship and how his childhood was.  Penny could have handle this it better to be honest.

 

Penny  is always over the top in her reaction when Leonard does something  she doesn't like. 

 

 

I would love for Leonard to find out Penny want to break up with him again back in Season Six and let him have an over the top moment and see how Penny would feel to be on the receiving end.

To be fair their have been moments when Leonard has let Penny have it, go back to S1 when Penny was dating DU, he ripped into her for her poor judgement among other things, but thing with Leonard even when he is really mad with Penny he can't help but support her when she is upset. 

[Chrismo]

i have to say this again ....

 

really after everything that happened in his relationship with Penny after 6 six years.... Leonard craves for pity sex.... how pathetic...

 

oh Penny why are you still with Leonard???

She's with him because she really does love him.

To be fair their have been moments when Leonard has let Penny have it, go back to S1 when Penny was dating DU, he ripped into her for her poor judgement among other things, but thing with Leonard even when he is really mad with Penny he can't help but support her when she is upset. 

Season 2 Bath gift?

[ArmyGirl]

To be fair their have been moments when Leonard has let Penny have it, go back to S1 when Penny was dating DU, he ripped into her for her poor judgement among other things, but thing with Leonard even when he is really mad with Penny he can't help but support her when she is upset. 

 

I agree about this instant and I want the same from Penny for Leonard when he makes poor decisions (stop the over top reaction i.e. his mother).  All I am saying Penny could have handled it differently.

Edited September 19, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[3ku11]

She's with him because she really does love him.

Season 2 Bath gift?

Yeah Season 2 not Season 1

[Tensor]

To be fair their have been moments when Leonard has let Penny have it, go back to S1 when Penny was dating DU, he ripped into her for her poor judgement among other things, but thing with Leonard even when he is really mad with Penny he can't help but support her when she is upset.

Tangible Affection, Leonard went from angry(the angriest I think he ever was at Penny), to trying to help her get past her fear by allowing her to chose when to propose in about one minute, after he realized she was upset.

[ArmyGirl]

Tangible Affection, Leonard went from angry(the angriest I think he ever was at Penny), to trying to help her get past her fear by allowing her to chose when to propose in about one minute, after he realized she was upset.

 

This is what I want for Leonard from Penny.  Look at how she handle things in 7.04 he used bad judgment and should have been called out without  his mother being involved.

[Tensor]

This is what I want for Leonard from Penny.  Look at how she handle things in 7.04 he used bad judgment and should have been called out without  his mother being involved.

You may not get it. Leonard has been portrayed as someone who does that kind of thing. Penny hasn't. They best you're going to get from Penny is "I'm here to support my man." or "No, I mean, you have to go. It sounds like an amazing opportunity." Penny can be comforting, supportive and caring, but not when she is angry or has been angry recently. She can't shut if off like Leonard can, that' just part of her character. Sheldon has trouble turning on the comforting, supportive and caring behavior. Each character acts differently.

[Chrismo]

This is what I want for Leonard from Penny.  Look at how she handle things in 7.04 he used bad judgment and should have been called out without  his mother being involved.

This isn't exactly the same but in 43 peculiarity is an example. He made Penny text Cole that she had a boyfriend. Leonard was peeping out his door at her door. He tailed him down the staircase and told him all about Penny's boyfriend was scary. He was pleased with himself and got caught by Penny. She was mad (deservedly so) but they ended up talking in the hallway and Penny said ILY. Obviously in that case Leonard used bad judgment but Penny didn't overreact.

[ArmyGirl]

You may not get it. Leonard has been portrayed as someone who does that kind of thing. Penny hasn't. They best you're going to get from Penny is "I'm here to support my man." or "No, I mean, you have to go. It sounds like an amazing opportunity." Penny can be comforting, supportive and caring, but not when she is angry or has been angry recently. She can't shut if off like Leonard can, that' just part of her character. Sheldon has trouble turning on the comforting, supportive and caring behavior. Each character acts differently.

 

Well I guess the next time Penny makes a bad decision and it hurts Leonard I hope he won't be so forgiving for once.  I am sorry to say this but right now this how I feel.  I'm sure I will change my mind down the line when I'm no longer so upset.

[Tensor]

Well I guess the next time Penny makes a bad decision and it hurts Leonard I hope he won't be so forgiving for once.  I am sorry to say this but right now this how I feel.  I'm sure I will change my mind down the line when I'm no longer so upset.

Hope so. I was really pissed off about a couple of things last year. I've started taking a longer view, it's helped. At one point, I thought I alienated you, glad I didn't.

[Chiara]

This is what I want for Leonard from Penny.  Look at how she handle things in 7.04 he used bad judgment and should have been called out without  his mother being involved.

It is a perfectly justified wish which I share. However, and just in this instance, the comparison between Leonard's and Penny's reactions to each other's offense may not be entirely valid.

 

Penny screwed up baaaadly in The Tangible Affection Proof. But she did it over the span of a couple of hours. She messed up completely and uncontrolably without any opportunity to stop, think, calm down and recalibrate. From Leonard's viewpoint, it looked like a momentary loss of control, symptomatic of a larger issue.

In 7.04, Leonard makes a pig's breakfast of the whole thing for a couple of days. Over those 48-72 hours, he has more than enough time to rethink his course of action and give up on it yet he keeps going. From Penny's standpoint, it may look like premeditation.

 

Now, we know for a fact that the whole series of events is not the result of Leonard's master plan. He simply spots a chink in Penny's armour so to speak, goes for it once (to see if it works and to avoid watching sports which he hates) and then gets carried away. That is hardly evil. But does Penny know that ? To her, it may seem like a concerted effort to exploit her "weakness", to take advantage of her love/sympathy/affection for him. So the resentment and desire for revenge increase. 

[vasu]

This isn't exactly the same but in 43 peculiarity is an example. He made Penny text Cole that she had a boyfriend. Leonard was peeping out his door at her door. He tailed him down the staircase and told him all about Penny's boyfriend was scary. He was pleased with himself and got caught by Penny. She was mad (deservedly so) but they ended up talking in the hallway and Penny said ILY. Obviously in that case Leonard used bad judgment but Penny didn't overreact.

 

this reminds me of the episode where Penny first meets Alex.... Penny almost does the same thing as Leonard... in a bit more clever and cunning way...but when Leonard does similar thing ... she blows up ....instead of understanding Leonard....

 

anyway this is not something new.... Penny always chastizes leonard for doing things which she often does

[ArmyGirl]

Hope so. I was really pissed off about a couple of things last year. I've started taking a longer view, it's helped. At one point, I thought I alienated you, glad I didn't.

 

Nah, you where one of the most welcoming when I join and I love debating with you.  So we are all good.

this reminds me of the episode where Penny first meets Alex.... Penny almost does the same thing as Leonard... in a bit more clever and cunning way...but when Leonard does similar thing ... she blows up ....instead of understanding Leonard....

 

anyway this is not something new.... Penny always chastizes leonard for doing things which she often does

 

shhhh you aren't suppose to notice things like this.

This isn't exactly the same but in 43 peculiarity is an example. He made Penny text Cole that she had a boyfriend. Leonard was peeping out his door at her door. He tailed him down the staircase and told him all about Penny's boyfriend was scary. He was pleased with himself and got caught by Penny. She was mad (deservedly so) but they ended up talking in the hallway and Penny said ILY. Obviously in that case Leonard used bad judgment but Penny didn't overreact.

 

 

Remember Penny in 6.03 and a grad student named Alex? Penny never told Leonard she saw Alex talking to him or that she was on campus and why she was behaving the way she did.  Somehow Leonard never gets to escape when he does something in the same manner as Penny.

[Nogravitasatall]

It is a perfectly justified wish which I share. However, and just in this instance, the comparison between Leonard's and Penny's reactions to each other's offense may not be entirely valid.

Penny screwed up baaaadly in The Tangible Affection Proof. But she did it over the span of a couple of hours. She messed up completely and uncontrolably without any opportunity to stop, think, calm down and recalibrate. From Leonard's viewpoint, it looked like a momentary loss of control, symptomatic of a larger issue.

In 7.04, Leonard makes a pig's breakfast of the whole thing for a couple of days. Over those 48-72 hours, he has more than enough time to rethink his course of action and give up on it yet he keeps going. From Penny's standpoint, it may look like premeditation.

Now, we know for a fact that the whole series of events is not the result of Leonard's master plan. He simply spots a chink in Penny's armour so to speak, goes for it once (to see if it works and to avoid watching sports which he hates) and then gets carried away. That is hardly evil. But does Penny know that ? To her, it may seem like a concerted effort to exploit her "weakness", to take advantage of her love/sympathy/affection for him. So the resentment and desire for revenge increase.

Having had my lie down, I can see past my own disappointment and am able to consider that I was premature in considering them a unit. It will be part of Penny's journey to get to a point where they are. At some stage it should come to her not to engage all her offensive weaponry on Leonard, who means her no harm. Like the "IRON GIANT", she is not a gun. She just has to learn that, and figure out how to go off discriminately. This is part and parcel of them both living inside their new boundaries. Leonard is again stupid. ( but I still hate that they invoked his mum in punishment, that's just wrong, as he is supposed to be a grownup).

[Chiara]

Having had my lie down, I can see past my own disappointment and am able to consider that I was premature in considering them a unit. It will be part of Penny's journey to get to a point where they are. At some stage it should come to her not to engage all her offensive weaponry on Leonard, who means her no harm. Like the "IRON GIANT", she is not a gun. She just has to learn that, and figure out how to go off discriminately. This is part and parcel of them both living inside their new boundaries. Leonard is again stupid. ( but I still hate that they invoked his mum in punishment, that's just wrong, as he is supposed to be a grownup).

Well he is a grown homunculus

 

Leonard is indeed very much a grownup yet he still has many childlike and adolescent personality traits. In fact, his whole geeky side has the innocence and cluelessness usually associated with childhood. This aspect of him is highlighted in 7.04 where his attitude is, more than anything else, childish. Definitely not evil, absolutely not mean, not really manipulative, certainly not ill-intended. Just childish. He finds a way to get his favourite "baby sitter" (in this case Penny) to do his bidding and give him more "toys" so... He goes for brokes and milks the situation for all that it is worth until he gets caught. 

In a way, it makes She-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named's appearance all the more fitting (though still Kraken-releasing over-the-top) : mommy comes back to lay down the law.

 

On a more general note, I believe we are going to have to brace ourselves for Penny and Leonard still have a lot to learn.

Last season was very much focused on Penny's need for improvement. She started the year in an appalling fashion : she refused to say ILY, tried to break up with Leonard and declared their relationship "boring". Nevertheless, she woke up in the nick of time and went on to achieve tremendous progress : saying ILY, going back to college, admitting she has commitment issues, finding her true passion, proving her worth as an actress, developping an interest for Leonard's line of work, standing by her man during the tenure confrontation, selflessly encouraging him to go on the North Sea trip, etc.

This year, it seems it is Leonard's turn to fall, pick himself up, dust himself off and keep going. For all his greatness, he is still very much a man who has no experience of durable happiness or long-term relationships so he is bound to mess up : get a little cocky, a little too confident, etc.

The tension between him and Penny is probably going to build up until it reaches its first climax during November Sweeps (like last year, when The 43 Peculiarity aired on 15th November).

 

There will be some ugliness along the way; the ride will be bumpy but they will get there. Better and improved (and just a little bruised).

[Nogravitasatall]

^^^^^^

I was optimistic. I truly hoped they would fight between themselves then turn to fight together against external forces, such as his mum. Too soon, I guess. Penny seems to be careless of her family; it disappoints me that she uses Leonard's mum against him as she did with Sheldon's mum against Sheldon. Leonard should be exceptional to her. But it will be mended, I'm sure. (Funny that I found a line. Hmmm)

[Chiara]

^^^^^^

I was optimistic. I truly hoped they would fight between themselves then turn to fight together against external forces, such as his mum. Too soon, I guess. Penny seems to be careless of her family; it disappoints me that she uses Leonard's mum against him as she did with Sheldon's mum against Sheldon. Leonard should be exceptional to her. But it will be mended, I'm sure. (Funny that I found a line. Hmmm)

I definitely see what you mean. It is always a delight to see the Bonnie and Clyde of Pasadena close ranks and go on a rampage together. Luckily, we will get a tiny taste of that in 7.02 when it is just them, trying to hide from Sheldon.

 

But in 7.04, Beverly is at the very centre of the Lenny interaction. Unlike in The Panty Pinata Polarization, where Penny called Mary to the rescue "just" to obliterate Sheldon (regardless of the reasons behind the feud between her and her neighbour), here she calls Mommy Dearest to the rescue because the Dragon Lady is, in a way, an interested party. Without her, no book. Without the book, no trauma. No trauma, no compassion. No compassion, no deception. 

If Penny had mobilised Mamma Hofstadter to settle any other score between her and Leonard, I would agree with you wholeheartedly and find Penny's action decidedly unjustified. Worse even, profoundly disloyal. In this particular case however... It is sort of fitting. 

 

Also, and this is a small detail, we do not know exactely what Beverly tells her son when she sees him on Skype. TPTB went through the trouble of having Ms. Baranski film something for them from NYC so her character must say something. Does she chastise her son ? Does she start analysing why he did what he did ?  Does she, gasp, attempt to help him, in her own weird, pathologically traumatising way ?

[JonRS92]

The difference is Penny didn't do it but Leonard did. Also the group wants L/P together and that just as much or more for Leonard's benefit than Penny's

 

Bernadette and Amy are interesting cases because they have seemed to flip-flop in how they choose to back up Penny.  In 6.2, they were encouraging Penny to break up with Leonard.  There is nothing wrong, on the surface, with that, but you'd think if they were really invested in L/P then they would have taken a different tactic like Sheldon did.  Even Raj, who in the past has seemed to exploit his friends' romantic problems for his own gain, went off on Penny in 6.1 I believe.  Then in 6.3 Amy starts to help Penny better understand her feelings for Leonard in a way that helps a L/P relationship to move forward.  Amy tells Penny that Alex hitting on Leonard is showing Penny that Leonard is desirable and that she is bothered by some other girl hitting on her boyfriend.  Interestingly enough, as I and others have pointed out, Penny manipulates Leonard with sex in this episode to try and keep his interest on her.  So I get why people think Penny is being hypocritical in 7.4.  in 6.5 then, Bernadette and Amy both show Penny that she is really being selfish in her approach to her relationship with Leonard.  It's all about pleasing her.  Bernie and Amy show her different and the L/P relationship takes a big upturn after Penny visits Leonard at work.  The two friends seem to go the rest of season 6 in supportive mode, but now in 7.4 we have Bernie take a step back.  I get the whole Team Penny thing that Bernie has going on here, but you would think that if she wanted to keep L/P together than she would have taken a different approach to Leonard's game.  Maybe something along the lines of "Hey, at least he's not deceiving you to go out and scam on other girls.  He's out of line, but take it easy on the poor guy."

 

Tangible Affection, Leonard went from angry(the angriest I think he ever was at Penny), to trying to help her get past her fear by allowing her to chose when to propose in about one minute, after he realized she was upset.

 

As others have said, Leonard is a forgiver.  All Penny has to do is turn on the tears and the anger is gone.  That is shown in the Bath Gift episode.  In the season 6 valentines episode we see a different Penny but a similar Leonard.  Penny makes a fool of herself and Leonard gets angry again.  This time, Penny doesn't start crying but she does get down on herself.  Leonard is still angry but you can see that her feelings are more important to him than his own.  Again, because of this, I can understand some of the anger at the seeming regression evidenced by these early season 7 eps.  But I don't think this is regression.  In season 5, in the episode where they went to the movies as friends, Penny tells Leonard that she liked cocky and take-charge Leonard.  His behavior in 7.4 seems to be an extension of that, but, in typical Leonard fashion, he screws it up and takes it too far.

 

This isn't exactly the same but in 43 peculiarity is an example. He made Penny text Cole that she had a boyfriend. Leonard was peeping out his door at her door. He tailed him down the staircase and told him all about Penny's boyfriend was scary. He was pleased with himself and got caught by Penny. She was mad (deservedly so) but they ended up talking in the hallway and Penny said ILY. Obviously in that case Leonard used bad judgment but Penny didn't overreact.

 

This is an interesting example because it is angry Penny that says ILY.  That realization is what sobered Penny up very quickly.  So I am not so sure that Penny didn't overreact, but that that overreaction led to an admission she might not have said yet if she had not let her guard down in anger.  Up to that point in the conversation it was Leonard who was backing down and capitulating to the angry Penny.

[Guest]

Where i can read the taping report for 7.04?

[Chrismo]

Bernadette and Amy are interesting cases because they have seemed to flip-flop in how they choose to back up Penny.  In 6.2, they were encouraging Penny to break up with Leonard.  There is nothing wrong, on the surface, with that, but you'd think if they were really invested in L/P then they would have taken a different tactic like Sheldon did.  Even Raj, who in the past has seemed to exploit his friends' romantic problems for his own gain, went off on Penny in 6.1 I believe.  Then in 6.3 Amy starts to help Penny better understand her feelings for Leonard in a way that helps a L/P relationship to move forward.  Amy tells Penny that Alex hitting on Leonard is showing Penny that Leonard is desirable and that she is bothered by some other girl hitting on her boyfriend.  Interestingly enough, as I and others have pointed out, Penny manipulates Leonard with sex in this episode to try and keep his interest on her.  So I get why people think Penny is being hypocritical in 7.4.  in 6.5 then, Bernadette and Amy both show Penny that she is really being selfish in her approach to her relationship with Leonard.  It's all about pleasing her.  Bernie and Amy show her different and the L/P relationship takes a big upturn after Penny visits Leonard at work.  The two friends seem to go the rest of season 6 in supportive mode, but now in 7.4 we have Bernie take a step back.  I get the whole Team Penny thing that Bernie has going on here, but you would think that if she wanted to keep L/P together than she would have taken a different approach to Leonard's game.  Maybe something along the lines of "Hey, at least he's not deceiving you to go out and scam on other girls.  He's out of line, but take it easy on the poor guy."

 

 

 

 

 

This is an interesting example because it is angry Penny that says ILY.  That realization is what sobered Penny up very quickly.  So I am not so sure that Penny didn't overreact, but that that overreaction led to an admission she might not have said yet if she had not let her guard down in anger.  Up to that point in the conversation it was Leonard who was backing down and capitulating to the angry Penny.

I think in 6.2 B/A were wanting Penny to tell leonard how she was feeling not necessarily wanting for her to break up. In the ILY the L/P discussion was over. Leonard was going to go into his apartment. Penny pursued him which led to the ILY. At that point she really wasn't that mad at him anymore. They actually did talk it out.

[Tensor]

Bernadette and Amy are interesting cases because they have seemed to flip-flop in how they choose to back up Penny.  In 6.2, they were encouraging Penny to break up with Leonard. 

No, the weren't. Bernadette asks if she loves him. When Penny states she does, asks if she's told him that and states she didn't know Penny was unhappy. Amy ASKS if she is breaking up with him. But, at no time do they encourage her to break up Leonard.