Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Nogravitasatall]

As I have said, I agree and think we are waaaay over-thinking this.  I think what we should be doing is enjoying the laughs secure in the knowledge that unless the writers hate us Lenny will be okay.

There is no "we". I think I'm out on this limb alone now. The funny part will come when it plays as completely sensible and awesome. I appreciate your reassurance. . However, I'm not at all worried about L/P. I just deeply dislike this plot device.

[hamerman55]

There is no "we". I think I'm out on this limb alone now. The funny part will come when it plays as completely sensible and awesome. I appreciate your reassurance. . However, I'm not at all worried about L/P. I just deeply dislike this plot device.

I feel that Leonard and Penny are pretty solid, too. I also do not like this plot device. So far, the Skype scenes with Beverly have not worked for me. She's there just long enough to make Leonard feel bad or even worse, without the comedy of her messing with everyone else. Her interactions with Leonard seem sad to me. The comedy with her comes from her interactions with the rest of the group. Just popping her in to dump on Leonard for a scene is just not funny. I get that they really, really like using her for ths purpose, and can't get Christine for an actual episode due to her other commitments, but this device sucks.

I don't see why Penny needs to bring her in anyway. This is nowhere near as serious as the "Panty Pinata" fight between Sheldon and Penny. Sheldon was being impossible, and there didn't seem to be another solution. In this case, it appears that Penny went straight to Beverly. No attempt to work things out. This is bad relationship dynamics, as it seems that Penny can't confront Leonard. Leonard seems to have learned how to confront Penny when she's out of line, but Penny doesn't seem to have that confidence yet. Interestingly, it is the same mover Bernie pulled on Howard about going to space, yet Penny gets away with it, apparently. Does Penny really want Beverly in her bedroom with Leonard. As has been mentioned earlier, there is not enough Viagra in the world to fix that.

I wonder how it will really play out, as it seems that Penny is actually still afraid to negotiate with Leonard. I'm sure she hasn't accepted entirely that Leonard loves her for more than her beauty and the great sex. She is also insecure about holding her own in an argument with Leonard. It comes across that Penny is afraid that having a discussion with Leonard one on one will result in Leonard winning the argument and gaining further control over the relationship. Hence the argument ending nuclear option.

[hamerman55]

I wonder if the reason Leonard prefers Penny over attractive female scientists is to avoid his mother, metaphorically. When Penny dressed up as a smart girls with the glasses, he knew she was acting. Sheldon even points this out from Beverly's book, that he is attracted to Penny because she is the opposite of his mother. So both Sheldon and Beverly get that Leonard wants to avoid his mother.

[Nogravitasatall]

And don't forgot also that Beverley regardless of how horrible she can be with Leonard, is probably going to be her mother-in law one day so they need to be on good terms.

Eta. More civilly

Sorry but, No they don't. Why should Penny be a collaborator with Leonard's tormentor. Think about it. A cool wary distance is more supportive. IF she marries him, she marries HIM. She is meant to be rescuing him. It's in the premise of poor sad nerd meets hot loving girl. Why is he so sad and damaged? He couldnt even look Penny in the eye for three years... because of his mum! And Penny knows this.

Penny: You want to talk about crazy mothers, Leonard’s mom wouldn’t give him any sort of approval growing up.

Priya: Oh, the poor thing.

Penny: It makes him desperate to please women. That’s why the foreplay goes on and on.

(I have to let this go, but it's such an injustice... Argh )

...Andofcourseitwillbefunnywhentheyrunit

Edited September 21, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Count Wally de Honk]

(I have to let this go... Argh)

 

In an effort to distract you my friend, in lieu of making a hot beverage, either for you or as a conversation starter, we really must find some sort of benighted TBBT-centred Pub Quiz based in our locality, enter, and win an obscene amount of champagne. Like a crate-load-full. That's what you win in pub quizzes isn't it? I'm sure we'd win.

 

I'll keep looking for one.

[Nogravitasatall]

In an effort to distract you my friend, in lieu of making a hot beverage, either for you or as a conversation starter, we really must find some sort of benighted TBBT-centred Pub Quiz based in our locality, enter, and win an obscene amount of champagne. Like a crate-load-full. That's what you win in pub quizzes isn't it? I'm sure we'd win.

 

I'll keep looking for one.

Much appreciated. Will self serve beverage and await next contention. Have pm'd too.

[Tensor]

I think making the beverage "slutty" is medicinally called for.

[Zhalen565]

I wonder if the reason Leonard prefers Penny over attractive female scientists is to avoid his mother, metaphorically. When Penny dressed up as a smart girls with the glasses, he knew she was acting. Sheldon even points this out from Beverly's book, that he is attracted to Penny because she is the opposite of his mother. So both Sheldon and Beverly get that Leonard wants to avoid his mother.

Sorry Sheldon didn't quote Beverley's book, that was all in Leonard's head during TRH when he thinks things through. It never actually happened.

[Count Wally de Honk]

I think making the beverage "slutty" is medicinally called for.

 

My father mixed Pernod with Single Malt Whisky (Laphroaig to be precise) this evening, in a rather confused and belated celebration of the Chinese Moon Festival.

I cannot think of a stronger word than “slutty” to describe this particular beverage. Slutty is insufficient. I’ll go with rip-roaringly promiscuous, I think, just to be polite.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Count Wally de Honk

[Nogravitasatall]

I think making the beverage "slutty" is medicinally called for.

Yes, but I can barely spell Cosmoplotian let alone make one. But chardonnay is working. AND funnily, I think that's Penny's first choice. See: relevance. Heheheh.

(Oops, Rage is airing. It's time to go. I'm too old to watch that)

Edited September 21, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[JonRS92]

There is no "we". I think I'm out on this limb alone now. The funny part will come when it plays as completely sensible and awesome. I appreciate your reassurance. . However, I'm not at all worried about L/P. I just deeply dislike this plot device.

 

Trust me, I don't care for it either.  And while I believe what I post, I also do it to reassure myself that the writers are not going to mess with this again.  As if I talk about it enough what I am saying will have to be true   Maybe the writers should have just let this plot idea go and find another way to bring back Christine

 

I feel that Leonard and Penny are pretty solid, too. I also do not like this plot device. So far, the Skype scenes with Beverly have not worked for me. She's there just long enough to make Leonard feel bad or even worse, without the comedy of her messing with everyone else. Her interactions with Leonard seem sad to me. The comedy with her comes from her interactions with the rest of the group. Just popping her in to dump on Leonard for a scene is just not funny. I get that they really, really like using her for ths purpose, and can't get Christine for an actual episode due to her other commitments, but this device sucks.

I don't see why Penny needs to bring her in anyway. This is nowhere near as serious as the "Panty Pinata" fight between Sheldon and Penny. Sheldon was being impossible, and there didn't seem to be another solution. In this case, it appears that Penny went straight to Beverly. No attempt to work things out. This is bad relationship dynamics, as it seems that Penny can't confront Leonard. Leonard seems to have learned how to confront Penny when she's out of line, but Penny doesn't seem to have that confidence yet. Interestingly, it is the same mover Bernie pulled on Howard about going to space, yet Penny gets away with it, apparently. Does Penny really want Beverly in her bedroom with Leonard. As has been mentioned earlier, there is not enough Viagra in the world to fix that.

I wonder how it will really play out, as it seems that Penny is actually still afraid to negotiate with Leonard. I'm sure she hasn't accepted entirely that Leonard loves her for more than her beauty and the great sex. She is also insecure about holding her own in an argument with Leonard. It comes across that Penny is afraid that having a discussion with Leonard one on one will result in Leonard winning the argument and gaining further control over the relationship. Hence the argument ending nuclear option.

 

You could be right, but if you are then I think this might be a good thing.  If Leonard has reached the point where he and Penny are on equal ground in terms of their fights then this is a good thing.  It can be argued that Penny's perceived boredom with Leonard in 6.2 was due to his being too easy to for Penny to control.  If Penny now thinks that she has to bring in backup to deal with Leonard then this could be a good thing in a way.  Now I am not saying her choice of backup was good, just that the fact that she felt she needed it MIGHT be a good thing.

Edited September 21, 2013 by JonRS92

[Chiara]

It's nice to see I'm not the only who dislike Leonard's mother and hope one day Leonard gets to call her out.

I do not know how feasible that truly is. Beverly, for all her shortcomings, is a mother. And writers usually find it hard to go after mothers because of the mystique, for lack of a better word, surrounding them. So in fiction nothing truly bad usually ever happens to them, may it be an accident or a comeuppance, without it looking a bit tragic.  

 

However, I could see some strong "negociation" occurring between her and Penny (not so much Leonard for he shall forever remain pure). These two, in spite of their differences, have some weird mutual respect thing going on which could be used by Leonard's girlfriend to have Beverly behave in a more acceptable manner. 

 

I wonder how it will really play out, as it seems that Penny is actually still afraid to negotiate with Leonard. I'm sure she hasn't accepted entirely that Leonard loves her for more than her beauty and the great sex. She is also insecure about holding her own in an argument with Leonard. It comes across that Penny is afraid that having a discussion with Leonard one on one will result in Leonard winning the argument and gaining further control over the relationship. Hence the argument ending nuclear option.

I do not think Penny is afraid to confront Leonard per se. She did it in The 43 Peculiarity and The Egg Salad Equivalency without too much trouble. 

 

The 7.04 is different in that, in Penny's eyes, Leonard uses her love for him against her : he takes advantage of her affection to get what he wants from her.

Now, we know that he does not really do it on purpose; he serendipitously discovers that Penny's compassion makes her particularly compliant and cannot help himself because he does not want to watch the game... There is no evil plan at work. But to Penny, it may look quite different. Perhaps, from where she stands, it appears premeditated. And even, oddly familiar. Remember how Kurt used to ask stuff (usually money) from Penny because he knew she would not say no ? 

In The Tangerine Factor, Penny wondered whether she was only attracted to jerks or turned the guys she was attracted to into jerks. In her mind, it had to be the one or the other because all her boyfriends revealed themselves to be morons at some point or another. Then came Leonard, the non-jerky (actually adorable) boyfriend. Curse broken, problem solved, right ? Except that in 7.04, he behaves a tiny little bit like a jerk. Not a real jerk, of course, but something vaguely similar to one, at least from her viewpoint. So she nips it in the bud, once and for all. Hulk style.

 

Does she go overboard, considering what we know (lack of premeditation on Leonard's part) ? A resounding yes.

Does she go overboard, considering what she knows/assumes (possible premeditation on Leonard's part) ? Well... 

 

I wonder if the reason Leonard prefers Penny over attractive female scientists is to avoid his mother, metaphorically. When Penny dressed up as a smart girls with the glasses, he knew she was acting. Sheldon even points this out from Beverly's book, that he is attracted to Penny because she is the opposite of his mother. So both Sheldon and Beverly get that Leonard wants to avoid his mother.

As Zhalen565 pointed out, this reference to Leonard being attracted to Penny because she is, unlike his mother, a "good-natured simpleton" is quite contentious for it took place in Leonard's daydream (The Recombination Hypothesis).

Did Beverly really write that  or did Leonard imagine it ? If Beverly wrote it, how can we be sure she is right, considering she only spent a grand total of what ? Six hours with Penny ? If Leonard imagined it, was it because he believes it to be true or because he was subconsciously trying to talk himself out of asking Penny out ? 

 

Whatever the answers to those questions are, the "good-natured simpleton" hardly computes for Penny is neither a simpleton (the definition of that word would have to be stretched beyong recognition for it to fit her) nor particularly good-natured (she can be pretty inconsiderate when she feels like it).

As for Leonard being attracted to women who are polar opposites to his mother, well... Leslie Winkle and Priya Koothrappalli shoot this theory down. Even Penny, while not academically accomplished, is not that different from her future mother-in-law : emotionally constipated, tough, a bit aloof, forthcoming when drunk, etc. Alex is much more of a polar opposite to Beverly than Penny is yet Leonard shows no interest in her. 

 

So why is Leonard so madly in love with Penny ? And vice versa ? So far, the writers have provided us with no real explanation. They have, time and time again, shown us that there is nobody for Leonard but Penny (she is the only one who can accept him for all that he is) and nobody for Penny but Leonard (who can take her as a whole). But why that is ? Mystery. 

I have to confess I would love to see the characters try to "riddle me this" onscreen. I think it would be entertaining. Especially in Leonard's case since he is a scientist, a man used to making sense out of things. To witness his efforts (and possible failure) at understanding why, out of three and a half billion women, "the one" for him is a Nebraska cowgirl with a 'tude should be hilarious.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Chiara

[hamerman55]

 

As Zhalen565 pointed out, this reference to Leonard being attracted to Penny because she is, unlike his mother, a "good-natured simpleton" is quite contentious for it took place in Leonard's daydream (The Recombination Hypothesis).

Did Beverly really write that  or did Leonard imagine it ? If Beverly wrote it, how can we be sure she is right, considering she only spent a grand total of what ? Six hours with Penny ? If Leonard imagined it, was it because he believes it to be true or because he was subconsciously trying to talk himself out of asking Penny out ? 

 

Whatever the answers to those questions are, the "good-natured simpleton" hardly computes for Penny is neither a simpleton (the definition of that word would have to be stretched beyong recognition for it to fit her) nor particularly good-natured (she can be pretty inconsiderate when she feels like it).

As for Leonard being attracted to women who are polar opposites to his mother, well... Leslie Winkle and Priya Koothrapalli shoot this theory down. Even Penny, while not academically accomplished, is not that different from her future mother-in-law : emotionally constipated, tough, a bit aloof, forthcoming when drunk, etc. Alex is much more of a polar opposite to Beverly than Penny is yet Leonard shows no interest in her. 

 

 

I take the daydreaming part of "The Recombination Hypothesis" as completely happening in Leonard's head, if for no other reason that it lends insight. Whether the writers intended for us to do that is difficult to know. Sheldon has probably characterized Penny as a "good-natured simpleton" frequently enough that this is simply Leonard flying in Sheldon's words. Of course, Sheldon has no respect for anyone's intellectual prowess except his own, Beverly's and Stephen Hawking"s. To him, Penny is a "blonde monkey". So I take this characterization as Sheldon's, not Leonard's. As to what Beverly thinks of Penny, I'm sure she shares Sheldon's opinion. I'm sure they discussed her. Further, she will resent Penny as her son is, in her mind, either imitating or inspiring his father in choosing someone other than her. That's one of the reasons I'd like for them to introduce the dad with Courtney Thorne-Smith as the new waitress wife. She looks so similar to Penny, albeit of a different generation. She's also worked with Lorre and Co. I do not have a good feel for Leonard's opinion of Penny's intellect, as she demonstrated several times to have a lot of talent. She beat him in chess on the first try, and schooled Sheldon in Halo. She and Amy wiped the floor up with Sheldon and Leonard in "The Re-entry Minimization" and that wasn't all Amy by a long shot. So unless Leonard is a fool, he knows that Penny is as sharp as a tack, just not highly educated. Note that Sheldon is highly educated, and Penny has bested him on many occasions. Of course, Sheldon being Sheldon, he refuses to acknowledge it.

 

To me, Penny differs from all of Leonard's other women in some very important ways, particularly if you consider all six seasons. First, she's blonde. While that may sound shallow and trivial, note that the only blonde women that Leonard has been involved with at all were one episode characters, and totally unacceptable. All the other women are dark haired, particularly Beverly. Visual cues are important, both in life and TV. Worry when a blonde version of Alex shows up. The writers may be signalling trouble. 

 

Second, in the first three seasons, Penny was not hard, emotionally constipated or aloof. She hugged Leonard and Sheldon in the first episode, and mouth kissed Leonard in the sixth episode. One could sense that in the fifth episode, she was interested in him. Further, she just liked him for no reason (we're still puzzling out why they like each other almost seven seasons in). She didn't want his money, his social position, or for him to rescue her and build her a comfortable life. All the other women had an agenda. In fact, if she wanted any of those things, they'd be married now. I do suggest that to Penny, marriage is the trailer park with the boozer neck-tatooed husband and a litter of children. Leslie either wanted him for stress relief, or to escape her dissatisfaction with casual sex. Clearly she was analytically viewing him as a mate. They broke up over loop vs string theory as if they were arguing religion. Leslie must have seemed much like his mother in how she was selecting him. Priya was using Leonard as a fling before she settled down. He was never a serious possibility to her. Alex is the closest to a real threat, but she's a dark-haired scientist who can tolerate Sheldon, for the most part. That looks a lot like Beverly. Alex does seem a lot sweeter, and this all adds up to her being Penny's biggest threat.

 

Third, Penny didn't get hard until after she broke up with Leonard. Ultimately, she is a sweet girly-girl who is also a cowgirl. She is forthright with liking to have sex with Leonard (preferably as frequently as possible) with no strings attached. She made this latter point clear in "The Ornithophobia Diffusion". Leonard was doing all those things to please Penny in Leonard and Penny 1.0 and get sex, while Penny had no intention of not having sex with Leonard. In fact, there is no example I can think of where Penny has manipulated Leonard about anything. No games, no read my mind issues. Just a straightforward dating and sex relationship. I don't think Leonard has really accepted that sex with Penny is a given, and that he can ask for it. But generally in the first three seasons, Penny was an open, sweet, affectionate girl and girlfriend, with no agenda. The problems with her being emotionally constipated and hard to understand didn't surface until the relationship progresses past Penny's experience. Now both Penny and Leonard are in uncharted waters, and Penny doesn't have a next move. So far, Leonard's only next move is engagement and/or living together. What they need is an intermediate step between engagement and where they are now. A Relationship Agreement would make a lot of sense right now, in that they could set some rules, including some aspects of the Beta Test and to pledge fidelity. Right now, I think the latter is assumed, but maybe Penny and Leonard would feel better if it were explicit. A sort of pre-engagement.

 

I think the best way to see the key features of Penny for Leonard is to watch the first two seasons, and the episodes after the ILY. Penny in the latter half of season six was touching Leonard most of the time. I got the sense that she just couldn't get enough of that with him. 

[Chrismo]

I feel that Leonard and Penny are pretty solid, too. I also do not like this plot device. So far, the Skype scenes with Beverly have not worked for me. She's there just long enough to make Leonard feel bad or even worse, without the comedy of her messing with everyone else. Her interactions with Leonard seem sad to me. The comedy with her comes from her interactions with the rest of the group. Just popping her in to dump on Leonard for a scene is just not funny. I get that they really, really like using her for ths purpose, and can't get Christine for an actual episode due to her other commitments, but this device sucks.

I don't see why Penny needs to bring her in anyway. This is nowhere near as serious as the "Panty Pinata" fight between Sheldon and Penny. Sheldon was being impossible, and there didn't seem to be another solution. In this case, it appears that Penny went straight to Beverly. No attempt to work things out. This is bad relationship dynamics, as it seems that Penny can't confront Leonard. Leonard seems to have learned how to confront Penny when she's out of line, but Penny doesn't seem to have that confidence yet. Interestingly, it is the same mover Bernie pulled on Howard about going to space, yet Penny gets away with it, apparently. Does Penny really want Beverly in her bedroom with Leonard. As has been mentioned earlier, there is not enough Viagra in the world to fix that.

I wonder how it will really play out, as it seems that Penny is actually still afraid to negotiate with Leonard. I'm sure she hasn't accepted entirely that Leonard loves her for more than her beauty and the great sex. She is also insecure about holding her own in an argument with Leonard. It comes across that Penny is afraid that having a discussion with Leonard one on one will result in Leonard winning the argument and gaining further control over the relationship. Hence the argument ending nuclear option.

I don't see the scene playing out with Leonard's mother as bad as it seems. The written version and the TV version are probably going to be different. Nothing seemed to happen after that scene anyways.

You are correct that this is different than Panty Pinata and Penny could have handled things differently. I agree with @Chiara though that Penny has confronted him. But in defense of Penny L/P has always has had a few problems in regards to the bedroom (I googled that,sending thank you cards and proposing for example).  You are correct that IMO Penny does think that Leonard just loves her for her beauty and great sex. Also if my memory is correct Beverly was last on the Christmas episode when Leonard hadn't told her she was his girlfriend. Sheldon pointed out her education and L/P discussed the complexity of the Cheesecake Factory menu. Putting together the last episode that Leonard didn't want to be paired with Penny in the scavenger hunt and now this one (it didn't help that H/B knew about the pity sex before her) you got the nuclear option.

[Chiara]

To me, Penny differs from all of Leonard's other women in some very important ways, particularly if you consider all six seasons. First, she's blonde. While that may sound shallow and trivial, note that the only blonde women that Leonard has been involved with at all were one episode characters, and totally unacceptable. All the other women are dark haired, particularly Beverly. Visual cues are important, both in life and TV. Worry when a blonde version of Alex shows up. The writers may be signalling trouble.

 I do apologise for being annoying here but, since I do agree with you about visual clues being very important on television, I have to say that Beverly is not a brunette. Leslie and Priya are, undoubtedly. Penny is definitely blond. Beverly is somewhere in the middle. 

 

Second, in the first three seasons, Penny was not hard, emotionally constipated or aloof. She hugged Leonard and Sheldon in the first episode, and mouth kissed Leonard in the sixth episode.

My initial post probably lacked subtlety. I am sorry.

There is no doubt in my mind that Penny is a warm, affectionate person. She would go to war for her friends and is always there for them when they need her. However, she also has 1) a remarkable sense of self-preservation which gives her very sharp edges and 2) a certain detachment which makes it difficult for peope and/or events to get to her significantly, in any way including positively.

While those aspects of her personality became more apparent in the third, fourth and fifth seasons, they were already there in the first couple of years. She crushed Howard's very soul in The Killer Robot Instability (yes, Howard was being a douchebag and deserved to be called out but she went straight for the jugular, no mercy); she obliterated and humiliated Leonard in The Nerdvana Annihilation (I know she was rightfully tired and frustrated but wow !); she physically threw Leonard out of her apartment in The Maternal Capacitance (he just said she had daddy issues...); she said she was devastated over her breakup with Kurt in the pilot but was kissing another guy two episodes later in The Fuzzy Boots Corollary (could be rebound, could be proof that she was already over her "soul crushing" heartbreak); etc.

 

So, in spite of her undeniable loyalty and mama bear qualities, she has always displayed the ability to be pretty volatile, aggressive and/or cold when need be. Once paired with Leonard (season 3), those characteristics, especially the last one, became more visible due to the contrast with Dr Hofstadter's extreme emotionality. But they were always there. Lurking

 

Penny is one hell of a tough nut to crack. Just the fact that it took Leonard two years of relentless efforts to get her to be with him puts her in the same "unattainable/tough to please" category as Beverly. I realise that her reasons for resisting Leonard had nothing to do with indifference, for she was far from insensitive to the gorgeous homunculus's charm. But by vertue of her denying his wishes of togetherness for so long, she is symbolically closer to Mommy Dearest than Alex will ever be. 

 

Which leaves us with the conundrum of all conundrums : Why are Penny and Leonard so right for each other ? Leonard has to get on that one, stat. I want to see him try to wrap his mind around it and realise that string theory is child's play compared to that equation.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Chiara

[Nogravitasatall]

she physically threw Leonard out of her apartment in The Maternal Capacitance (he just said she had daddy issues...);

.

Parents in the bedroom then too, and negative connotations. Argh. She knew what she was doing, at some level.

(Repeating; I am not worried. He's surmounted worse. Heheheheh. She will eventually get it. She just has to let him into her personal, um, "circle of trust". That's more intangible and personal than other, um, "things". And that makes sense, because she hasn't ever been observed to see sex as the most important part of a relationship. The penny hasn't quite dropped. I thought we got the signal in "the Tenure Turbulence" but it might have to wait right up to the fall of the curtain. Still not worried)

Edited September 21, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[SRAM]

 

Third, Penny didn't get hard until after she broke up with Leonard. Ultimately, she is a sweet girly-girl who is also a cowgirl. She is forthright with liking to have sex with Leonard (preferably as frequently as possible) with no strings attached. She made this latter point clear in "The Ornithophobia Diffusion". Leonard was doing all those things to please Penny in Leonard and Penny 1.0 and get sex, while Penny had no intention of not having sex with Leonard. In fact, there is no example I can think of where Penny has manipulated Leonard about anything. No games, no read my mind issues. Just a straightforward dating and sex relationship. I don't think Leonard has really accepted that sex with Penny is a given, and that he can ask for it. But generally in the first three seasons, Penny was an open, sweet, affectionate girl and girlfriend, with no agenda. The problems with her being emotionally constipated and hard to understand didn't surface until the relationship progresses past Penny's experience. Now both Penny and Leonard are in uncharted waters, and Penny doesn't have a next move. So far, Leonard's only next move is engagement and/or living together. What they need is an intermediate step between engagement and where they are now. A Relationship Agreement would make a lot of sense right now, in that they could set some rules, including some aspects of the Beta Test and to pledge fidelity. Right now, I think the latter is assumed, but maybe Penny and Leonard would feel better if it were explicit. A sort of pre-engagement.

 

 

 

 

I agree with you so much on this part of your post.  Penny and Leonard are both virgins when it comes to a meaningful relationship, the kind that lasts forever.  Penny thinks a relationship is 'ILY' and sex, that leads to, like you said, the trailer park, and all her previous relationships support that.  She was never, the one, with any other man, she was used and then disposed of.  Even Kurt replaced her, when he cheated on her, and that was her only long term relationship to reference.  Leonard has also not had a relationship where he felt it was going anywhere, Priya strung him along (forbidden white chocolate) during their relationship, so he doesn't know what it means to go deeper towards marriage.  They both don't know what they are doing and I think that is the writers plan, all along, again they are virgins, they have never even came close to this part of life before.

 

Of course this is great comedy, they are both like Sheldon and Amy in a way.  The relationship agreement is a great idea, they tried something like that, in a small way, during the beta test, so it would be so funny if they put together a small relationship agreement, maybe to chart their progress to moving in together, engagement or marriage.

[JonRS92]

We don't know why Penny and Leonard want each other but it could be argued that each completes the other. Each has traits the other desires but lack on their own. While Penny is smart she's not analytical like Leonard. She's the devil-May-care kind of girl who is also very sexual and outgoing and tough. This is something that Leonard is missing and has never known. Leonard is more of the stable, honest, caring, intelligent guy that Penny is not used to. Together they make a good whole.

Edited September 22, 2013 by JonRS92

[3ku11]

Yes Leonard was initially attracted to Penny because of her external qualities like her beauty and sex, but that dynamic mostly existed because of the core central premise of the dechatomy of eggheads and the hot girl next door. But even over the course of S1 Penny and Leonard developed a friendship over the course of the season, Penny started too see Leonard more then just on the surface a nerd with a total lack of social skills, and Leonard started too see Penny more then a sex object. Remember early on in S1 Penny found out Leonard never had a Bday party, that is when you really got an insight into Leonard and Sheldon's upbringing, Leonard's Mum diddn't beleive in having Birthdays because I suspose the idea of celebrating the day you were born is as Futilous as Celebrating Monday for the sake of being Monday. Where as Sheldon's mother loved those kinda events, in a way though Sheldon needed a Mother like the one he had, if Beverley was his mother I cannot imagine how worse he would be socially, and how much more condecending he would be haha, Sheldon's mother planted social awareness and awareness of people even if he doesen't realize it. But remember Penny organsied a Bday party for Leonard, obviousley he was late, remember this was their first kiss (actually not their first actual kiss, but it was more recipucal opposed to The Middle Earth Paradaigm). That to me is the thing between Leonard and Penny they had obvious differences, Leonard being the nerd, and Penny being the arechtypical hot girl next door, who is used to dating guys who are more her social equal. And obviously when they first met Penny just got out of a four year relationship with Kurt, so her ability in trusting guys in particular was waning, so as she developed a friendship with Leonard subconciousley she may of not wanted to date Leonard from the start, 1. It probably diddn't dawn on her their was anything going on really lol, although Penny revealed to Sheldon in The Tangarine Factor 1x24, that she always knew Leonard had a crush on her, but Leonard was so submissive about it, so Penny cannot be blamed from dating her usual type of guy when Leonard never gave her the choice of dating him, Sheldon even eluded to this fact in S1 that Penny diddn't reject you more that you diddn't ask her out so therefore you diddn't give her the chance to reject you or accept.

 

And 2. The guys espeicially Leonard were becoming a support group for her, they were her guys in a way, and with Leonard most of the relationships she has been in they have ended and that is it, but she knew Leonard was different, and actually cared for her, and she knew deep down she probably did too, probably worried if she went for it and it diddn't end well their freindship could be ruined, I think Leonard eluded to this fact too. In a way Leonard and Penny have alot more in common then people give them credit for, TBH by S4 Leonard was growing out of the awkward socially inept nerd, and Penny was growing out of the hot girl next door falling for dumb gym hunks who ultimately mistreat her. Priya was a catalyst for change, and then Alex revealed insecurities Penny diddn't even realize she had, almost by S5 they became equals. So by this point Leonard is seeing Penny more for just her looks, although Leonard has made no reservations that he likes being physically intimate with Penny, it is not the first time he has monopolised the situation for sex, 3x01 you could argue, but probably not a case seeing they both wanted it and what happened was 3 seasons in the making. And Penny is now seeing Leonard more then the awkward nerd, because TBH he is not the awkward nerd anymore, Penny and Leonard share ideal and values on a very fundemental level, like Love, Goals, Success e.t.c.

 

You could argue neither Sheldon, Howard, or Raj are compatible with Penny on any of these levels they are still very much geeks in someways, even with Howard being married now and espeically Raj who is still single and Sheldon too who still is very dysfunctional when it comes to emotions, people, and relationships. And Leonard is no longer seeing Penny as an object, their is a relationship their that is intellectual and physical. Penny messed up she should of never gone to Beverley, but she did this in S3, so maybe it is a lack of judgement from the writers, I don't see any inccuracies or flaws in Lenny's relationship dynamic, it more a circumstance thing then a relationship dynamic. Penny for the first time in her entire life loves a guy who loves her as deeply as she loves him, so it's new ground for both Leonard and Penny, Penny found out Leonard took advantage of Penny knowing about Beverley's book, for sex so she wanted to get even lol, it happens in relationships all the time, should she have confided in Beverley? No but how do we know it was just a casual conversation, Bernadette seems involved too. They have been through tougher things then this, I have no problem when it comes to Lenny it is more the plot device of the episode bothers me.

Edited September 22, 2013 by 3ku11

[fixitmr]

Hey guys you all missed something going back to S3  when Penny and Beverly bonded and had a few to many together at Christmas ...... that's why Penny called her ....

[ArmyGirl]

Hey guys you all missed something going back to S3  when Penny and Beverly bonded and had a few to many together at Christmas ...... that's why Penny called her ....

 

So does that mean Leonard should call Wyatt since he and Leonard bonded during his visit and bring him in to help with Penny so called commitment issues?

 

I still say Penny overstepped in bringing in Beverly and it's sad that she went there.  Trust is very important in a relationship and once it's broken It is hard to get back and Penny should know this since so many guys broke trust with her.

[3ku11]

Hey guys you all missed something going back to S3  when Penny and Beverly bonded and had a few to many together at Christmas ...... that's why Penny called her ....

Yeah true not sure they bonded, but Penny despite her many short comings, and despite Beverley's lack of respect for her in terms of career prospects, seem to really warm to Penny. Who's to say they haven't stayed in touch a few times over the past four years, not behind Leonard's back but maybe she emailed Penny, I don't know like I said Beverley is going to be her mother-in law so things may be different now.

So does that mean Leonard should call Wyatt since he and Leonard bonded during his visit and bring him in to help with Penny so called commitment issues?

 

I still say Penny overstepped in bringing in Beverly and it's sad that she went there.  Trust is very important in a relationship and once it's broken It is hard to get back and Penny should know this since so many guys broke trust with her.

Oh come it's not like she called one of her ex boyfriends, regardless of how Beverley treated Leonard she is still his mother, and Penny need's to have some kinda of relationship with her. Maybe she got deseprate and called her mother without thinking, sure she messed up but give her the benefit of the doubt.

[JonRS92]

Yes Leonard was initially attracted to Penny because of her external qualities like her beauty and sex, but that dynamic mostly existed because of the core central premise of the dechatomy of eggheads and the hot girl next door. But even over the course of S1 Penny and Leonard developed a friendship over the course of the season, Penny started too see Leonard more then just on the surface a nerd with a total lack of social skills, and Leonard started too see Penny more then a sex object. Remember early on in S1 Penny found out Leonard never had a Bday party, that is when you really got an insight into Leonard and Sheldon's upbringing, Leonard's Mum diddn't beleive in having Birthdays because I suspose the idea of celebrating the day you were born is as Futilous as Celebrating Monday for the sake of being Monday. Where as Sheldon's mother loved those kinda events, in a way though Sheldon needed a Mother like the one he had, if Beverley was his mother I cannot imagine how worse he would be socially, and how much more condecending he would be haha, Sheldon's mother planted social awareness and awareness of people even if he doesen't realize it. But remember Penny organsied a Bday party for Leonard, obviousley he was late, remember this was their first kiss (actually not their first actual kiss, but it was more recipucal opposed to The Middle Earth Paradaigm). That to me is the thing between Leonard and Penny they had obvious differences, Leonard being the nerd, and Penny being the arechtypical hot girl next door, who is used to dating guys who are more her social equal. And obviously when they first met Penny just got out of a four year relationship with Kurt, so her ability in trusting guys in particular was waning, so as she developed a friendship with Leonard subconciousley she may of not wanted to date Leonard from the start, 1. It probably diddn't dawn on her their was anything going on really lol, although Penny revealed to Sheldon in The Tangarine Factor 1x24, that she always knew Leonard had a crush on her, but Leonard was so submissive about it, so Penny cannot be blamed from dating her usual type of guy when Leonard never gave her the choice of dating him, Sheldon even eluded to this fact in S1 that Penny diddn't reject you more that you diddn't ask her out so therefore you diddn't give her the chance to reject you or accept.

 

And 2. The guys espeicially Leonard were becoming a support group for her, they were her guys in a way, and with Leonard most of the relationships she has been in they have ended and that is it, but she knew Leonard was different, and actually cared for her, and she knew deep down she probably did too, probably worried if she went for it and it diddn't end well their freindship could be ruined, I think Leonard eluded to this fact too. In a way Leonard and Penny have alot more in common then people give them credit for, TBH by S4 Leonard was growing out of the awkward socially inept nerd, and Penny was growing out of the hot girl next door falling for dumb gym hunks who ultimately mistreat her. Priya was a catalyst for change, and then Alex revealed insecurities Penny diddn't even realize she had, almost by S5 they became equals. So by this point Leonard is seeing Penny more for just her looks, although Leonard has made no reservations that he likes being physically intimate with Penny, it is not the first time he has monopolised the situation for sex, 3x01 you could argue, but probably not a case seeing they both wanted it and what happened was 3 seasons in the making. And Penny is now seeing Leonard more then the awkward nerd, because TBH he is not the awkward nerd anymore, Penny and Leonard share ideal and values on a very fundemental level, like Love, Goals, Success e.t.c.

 

You could argue neither Sheldon, Howard, or Raj are compatible with Penny on any of these levels they are still very much geeks in someways, even with Howard being married now and espeically Raj who is still single and Sheldon too who still is very dysfunctional when it comes to emotions, people, and relationships. And Leonard is no longer seeing Penny as an object, their is a relationship their that is intellectual and physical. Penny messed up she should of never gone to Beverley, but she did this in S3, so maybe it is a lack of judgement from the writers, I don't see any inccuracies or flaws in Lenny's relationship dynamic, it more a circumstance thing then a relationship dynamic. Penny for the first time in her entire life loves a guy who loves her as deeply as she loves him, so it's new ground for both Leonard and Penny, Penny found out Leonard took advantage of Penny knowing about Beverley's book, for sex so she wanted to get even lol, it happens in relationships all the time, should she have confided in Beverley? No but how do we know it was just a casual conversation, Bernadette seems involved too. They have been through tougher things then this, I have no problem when it comes to Lenny it is more the plot device of the episode bothers me.

 

All good points, I would also add that Penny chose to accept Leonard's invitation for lunch in the premiere before she even really knew him or Sheldon.  I think that says a lot for her character.  I don't know too many hot girls that would do that.  If Penny had acted to type then she would have politely (or maybe not politely) turned Leonard down and then the rest is history. 

So does that mean Leonard should call Wyatt since he and Leonard bonded during his visit and bring him in to help with Penny so called commitment issues?

 

I don't know that Leonard should go to Wyatt with that, but Leonard did go to him before for help planning a date.  There is a big difference between Wyatt and Beverly though.  Wyatt seems to care for Penny, at least more than Bev does for Leonard.  Say what you want about him seeming to only like Leonard for his financial stability for Penny, but I think that is pretty normal for fathers to worry about. 

[ArmyGirl]

...........

 

I don't know that Leonard should go to Wyatt with that, but Leonard did go to him before for help planning a date.  There is a big difference between Wyatt and Beverly though.  Wyatt seems to care for Penny, at least more than Bev does for Leonard.  Say what you want about him seeming to only like Leonard for his financial stability for Penny, but I think that is pretty normal for fathers to worry about. 

 

I don't want Leonard going there either, I was just making a point.  Penny knows how Beverly feels about Leonard and that is all I am saying and why go there having all the information about Leonard and Beverly's relationship. Beverly doesn't have Leonard's best interest at heart and Penny knows this.

[Nogravitasatall]

Science query: if the maglev coil in "The Holographic Excitation" would remove a pierced nipple, would it not tear off Penny's brassiere because of the ferrous underwires?

(I'm proud to say my wife posed this question, just now, as we watched the blu-ray. It's evening here).

Edited September 22, 2013 by Nogravitasatall