Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[3ku11]

I think the main objection in retrospect about the Season 3 breakup is the way it was handled. Penny didn't need to dump him in front of his friends. There is no reason they couldn't have met privately and Penny telling Leonard that he's getting too serious and they need to cool things down.

 

I watched "Moms" and it wasn't bad. The main thing is that the basic premise of the show is pretty heavy. You're talking about two mothers less than a year sober, and Anna Faris's daughter is pregnant as a teen. Anna's character is barely holding on, and neither her mom or her daughter is giving her much real help yet. While it had some funny moments, TBBT it ain't, yet, CBS is going to have to give it plenty of time, but it may work out.

I don't think Penny planned on breaking up with Leonard right their in front of their friends, I don't think any of it was planned it just happened, remember Wheaton monopolized their relationship to win a bowling tournament. And it's not like Penny was happy about it she ran off crying, I actually liked how it happened, yeah felt sorry for Leonard but it was a really dramatic moment, and thought Kaley's acting was incredible.

[Nogravitasatall]

I think the main objection in retrospect about the Season 3 breakup is the way it was handled. Penny didn't need to dump him in front of his friends. There is no reason they couldn't have met privately and Penny telling Leonard that he's getting too serious and they need to cool things down.

I watched "Moms" and it wasn't bad. The main thing is that the basic premise of the show is pretty heavy. You're talking about two mothers less than a year sober, and Anna Faris's daughter is pregnant as a teen. Anna's character is barely holding on, and neither her mom or her daughter is giving her much real help yet. While it had some funny moments, TBBT it ain't, yet, CBS is going to have to give it plenty of time, but it may work out.

Yes, but this is the girl who is banned from two restaurants back home for making scenes. I never was bothered by the public display. It came to a head when it did. Wheaton, however, has escaped justice. LOL.

[3ku11]

Yes, but this is the girl who is banned from two restaurants back home for making scenes. I never was bothered by the public display. It came to a head when it did. Wheaton, however, has escaped justice. LOL.

Sheldon and Wheaton becoming friends later on was justice enough for me lol

[Chrismo]

I think the main objection in retrospect about the Season 3 breakup is the way it was handled. Penny didn't need to dump him in front of his friends. There is no reason they couldn't have met privately and Penny telling Leonard that he's getting too serious and they need to cool things down.

 

I watched "Moms" and it wasn't bad. The main thing is that the basic premise of the show is pretty heavy. You're talking about two mothers less than a year sober, and Anna Faris's daughter is pregnant as a teen. Anna's character is barely holding on, and neither her mom or her daughter is giving her much real help yet. While it had some funny moments, TBBT it ain't, yet, CBS is going to have to give it plenty of time, but it may work out.

 

I don't think Penny planned on breaking up with Leonard right their in front of their friends, I don't think any of it was planned it just happened, remember Wheaton monopolized their relationship to win a bowling tournament. And it's not like Penny was happy about it she ran off crying, I actually liked how it happened, yeah felt sorry for Leonard but it was a really dramatic moment, and thought Kaley's acting was incredible.

Agree with 3ku11. Sheldon got them back  together during the "Spaghetti Catalyst" anyways. They weren't going to be a couple from season 3 to now.

In regards to "Moms" CBS has only TBBT for comedy's anyways they have plenty of time to wait.

[hamerman55]

I don't think Penny planned on breaking up with Leonard right their in front of their friends, I don't think any of it was planned it just happened, remember Wheaton monopolized their relationship to win a bowling tournament. And it's not like Penny was happy about it she ran off crying, I actually liked how it happened, yeah felt sorry for Leonard but it was a really dramatic moment, and thought Kaley's acting was incredible.

It was an immature act. Penny didn't have to break up with Leonard right that minute, which was what Wheaton was hoping for. She simply could have let it go, and talk to Leonard later. What was the rush? Was there a crisis that required her to dump him right then?

[3ku11]

It was an immature act. Penny didn't have to break up with Leonard right that minute, which was what Wheaton was hoping for. She simply could have let it go, and talk to Leonard later. What was the rush? Was there a crisis that required her to dump him right then?

I don't think it was an immature act your right Penny could of broken up with Leonard in a more suitable fashion, but this is Penny were talking about, the girl from nebraska who like Nogravtia said was banned from two restaraunts. I think because Leonard was on the receiving end and people tend to think Leonard was the one who was most hurt in the whole situation, people forget that Leonard did push for a ILY from Penny, and with Wheton putting the idea of being dragged along for a year, Penny was pushed and forced to react, and that is what happened. From my point of view Penny did what she did because of how much she cares about him, sure on another day in another situation, it would of been more suitable for Penny to break up with Leonard privately, but this is a comedy, the writers wanted to get drama out of it. 

[Chrismo]

It was an immature act. Penny didn't have to break up with Leonard right that minute, which was what Wheaton was hoping for. She simply could have let it go, and talk to Leonard later. What was the rush? Was there a crisis that required her to dump him right then?

There's a lot of if's. Sheldon knew Wheaton had something to do with what happened. Leonard could of ran after her. Leonard was immature too making comments about her loving the nachos. It wasn't all Penny fault

[Nogravitasatall]

It was an immature act. Penny didn't have to break up with Leonard right that minute, which was what Wheaton was hoping for. She simply could have let it go, and talk to Leonard later. What was the rush? Was there a crisis that required her to dump him right then?

She is a tad impulsive. That goes with the PDAs and skirting any decency laws. So far as I recall though, this is the only time Leonard has been affected by her impulsiveness. Negatively. Hopefully they will get that damn vacation somewhere hot and he can have some impulsive fun with her.

[3ku11]

She is a tad impulsive. That goes with the PDAs and skirting any decency laws. So far as I recall though, this is the only time Leonard has been affected by her impulsiveness. Negatively. Hopefully they will get that damn vacation somewhere hot and he can have some impulsive fun with her.

Ask any of her ex bf's about her impulsive nature, heck ask people at Subways, Restaraunts, and people running in the park lol, Penny has an impulsive nature good or bad, it is what make's her who she is. That's the charm of Leonard and Penny neither of them are perfect in anyway, but they are perfect for each other, that was really sappy haha but you get my point.

[Nogravitasatall]

Ask any of her ex bf's about her impulsive nature, heck ask people at Subways, Restaraunts, and people running in the park lol, Penny has an impulsive nature good or bad, it is what make's her who she is. That's the charm of Leonard and Penny neither of them are perfect in anyway, but they are perfect for each other, that was really sappy haha but you get my point.

Yes, Leonard is the over thinker. He's been impulsive twice. On the stairs each time. Hmm. Stairs. That foyer should get an Emmy (or a raise).

[JonRS92]

Ask any of her ex bf's about her impulsive nature, heck ask people at Subways, Restaraunts, and people running in the park lol, Penny has an impulsive nature good or bad, it is what make's her who she is. That's the charm of Leonard and Penny neither of them are perfect in anyway, but they are perfect for each other, that was really sappy haha but you get my point.

Here is what I would ask for this whole situation. First I am one who thinks that there was no need for a break up from a character standpoint. From a writing standpoint is another matter. Leonard would have done whatever Penny wanted to stay together including backing off on the ILY. He may have handled it poorly at the start but he was backing off. His comments at the bowling alley that she flipped out on had nothing to do with their situation really. Throw in getting played by Wheaton and I can see why people get upset at the breakup. Also I know some have said that both of them needed the breakup to allow them to grow. I would ask this. What did dating Priya really teach Leonard? Did he learn assertiveness or not to push? It didn't seem like at the time. And outside of regret what did it teach Penny? Did she magically learn not to flip out just because Leonard was dating Priya? They both still liked each other since the breakup and didn't stop so why is is so wrong to have expected them to talk things out then? Edited September 25, 2013 by JonRS92

[hamerman55]

It seems then that Penny fears certain types of impulsiveness, namely Leonard's. Leonard impulsively says ILY after sex, proposes during sex and proposes at the Valentine's Day dinner. Each time Leonard is impulsive, Penny reacts badly. To be sure, Leonard often compounds the impulsive "mistake", but still. Penny also fears impulsively commiting to Leonard. It seems that she wants to be very careful around Leonard, and wants him to be careful too. I believe that when Penny proposes, it will be the least impulsive thing she will have ever done in her life, and she will mean it root to branches.

[Nogravitasatall]

Crap. I was totally wrong. Lucky I'm used to that. Heheheheheheh... ahem.

Leonard is fortunate not to have spontaneously combusted. He is a flighty one too. Maybe that works for them in private. Idk.

[3ku11]

Here is what I would ask for this whole situation. First I am one who thinks that there was no need for a break up from a character standpoint. From a writing standpoint is another matter. Leonard would have done whatever Penny wanted to stay together including backing off on the ILY. He may have handled it poorly at the start but he was backing off. His comments at the bowling alley that she flipped out on had nothing to do with their situation really. Throw in getting played by Wheaton and I can see why people get upset at the breakup. Also I know some have said that both of them needed the breakup to allow them to grow. I would ask this. What did dating Priya really teach Leonard? Did he learn assertiveness or not to push? It didn't seem like at the time. And outside of regret what did it teach Penny? Did she magically learn not to flip out just because Leonard was dating Priya? They both still liked each other since the breakup and didn't stop so why is is so wrong to have expected them to talk things out then?

I Think Leonard dating Priya was a catalyst for change in the show and in Leonard and Penny's relationship, I mean at that point in S3 their was no guarentee Penny was ever going to recipucate Leonard's ILY, so she had to do what was best for her in the long run, she could of really hurt Leonard even more if they dragged it out, so maybe not from a characters standpoint but a writers one the break up was neccessary to get to where they are now. I think dating Priya it gave Leonard more confidence in that he is a catch, Priya in a way was more his social equal then Penny, but I always felt Leonard was trying to change who he was to suit the relationship, the only time I have seen him being himself around another women is Penny, same for Penny. I think it also taught Penny not to take Leonard for granted, she broke up with Leonard because she wasen't ready for a serious commitment, suddenly she was then Leonard finds someone else. Since S5 tho because of this Penny is no longer hulking out when issues come around, and Leonard has stopped being submissive in his behaviour with Penny, he is being a lot more assertive. Emphasised in the Valentine's Day ep, when Leonard diddn't let Penny get away with her behaviour at dinner, this time Penny admitted her insecurities and intimacy issues, and they talked through them honestly. Where as in S3 Penny just diddn't trust Leonard enough so she hulked out, and Leonard was too submissive, at that point he coulden't beleive he was dating Penny, and Penny was getting used to dating a guy like Leonard she is not used too. Where as now they are both equals.

Edited September 25, 2013 by 3ku11

[Nogravitasatall]

I'm going to say the first attempt was like a slingshot approach, to put more energy into the system. They learned not to take each other for granted. Immediately, instead of 5 years in. They had a "try-before-you-buy" thing going on. NOW they try harder, because they know the consequences of not trying. I guess.

[Chrismo]

To me Penny broke up  more for Leonard's benefit than actually hers. Leonard was prepared to do anything to keep her but I think she really thought he shouldn't have to. Things before the break up in reality weren't going that well.(the psychic and musician episodes). Also the guys were Leonard's friends. She had no one to really talk to. Priya in a way was just a distraction for Leonard. He liked her but wasn't in love with her like he was with Penny. I think in many ways Amy and Bernie helped Penny realize how much she really did care for Leonard. I  think Leonard going out with Priya actually was beneficial to Penny. I think when Leonard asked her out in season 5 he realized how much Penny had changed.

[JonRS92]

I Think Leonard dating Priya was a catalyst for change in the show and in Leonard and Penny's relationship, I mean at that point in S3 their was no guarentee Penny was ever going to recipucate Leonard's ILY, so she had to do what was best for her in the long run, she could of really hurt Leonard even more if they dragged it out, so maybe not from a characters standpoint but a writers one the break up was neccessary to get to where they are now. I think dating Priya it gave Leonard more confidence in that he is a catch, Priya in a way was more his social equal then Penny, but I always felt Leonard was trying to change who he was to suit the relationship, the only time I have seen him being himself around another women is Penny, same for Penny. I think it also taught Penny not to take Leonard for granted, she broke up with Leonard because she wasen't ready for a serious commitment, suddenly she was then Leonard finds someone else. Since S5 tho because of this Penny is no longer hulking out when issues come around, and Leonard has stopped being submissive in his behaviour with Penny, he is being a lot more assertive. Emphasised in the Valentine's Day ep, when Leonard diddn't let Penny get away with her behaviour at dinner, this time Penny admitted her insecurities and intimacy issues, and they talked through them honestly. Where as in S3 Penny just diddn't trust Leonard enough so she hulked out, and Leonard was too submissive, at that point he coulden't beleive he was dating Penny, and Penny was getting used to dating a guy like Leonard she is not used too. Where as now they are both equals.

I agree with you 100 percent that probably from a writing and show perspective they had to be broken up. When I look at the characters though I just don't get it. It seemed too forced. As you said Penny didn't know if she would ever be able to say ILY so she didn't want to string Leonard along. So what changed in Penny from season 4 to season 5 where she agreed to date him again? Nothing that I can see. She still was unsure of being able to say ILY, but this time they agreed to take it slow. They couldn't do this in season 3? I suppose you could say that it is easier to restart at a slower pace than to just hit the brakes on where they were. Also as I asked before. What changed in Leonard from dating Priya? He was still submissive as he did whatever Priya asked of him. He was also still pushy as evidenced when he pushed for her to tell her parents about them. I don't see where he grew at all in that relationship. I would argue his biggest growth came in season 5 when he decided to ask Penny out again and stop overthinking and even before that when he went on the date that was not a date with Penny. So while I totally get that for the show there needed to be a break up I don't think the characters needed it. If you get my meaning. Leonard and Penny are supposed to be the normal relationship. Normal people talk through issues like being in 2 different places in a relationship. I wish they had found another way to handle this the. What they did.

[Tensor]

It seems then that Penny fears certain types of impulsiveness, namely Leonard's. Leonard impulsively says ILY after sex, proposes during sex and proposes at the Valentine's Day dinner. Each time Leonard is impulsive, Penny reacts badly. To be sure, Leonard often compounds the impulsive "mistake", but still. Penny also fears impulsively commiting to Leonard. It seems that she wants to be very careful around Leonard, and wants him to be careful too. I believe that when Penny proposes, it will be the least impulsive thing she will have ever done in her life, and she will mean it root to branches.

It's not just a case of Leonard being impulsive. All three of those events, that you mention, were emotionally impulsive, something Leonard has demonstrated before. We know that while Penny is sexually impulsive, she is quite straightjacketed by emotional things. The two of them are yin and yang emotionally. Handling the things you mentioned, takes an emotional maturity that Penny simply didn't have for those three times and in some ways, she still doesn't have the needed emotional maturity. Which explains her reluctance to take the next step to proposing to Leoanrd.

[JonRS92]

To me Penny broke up more for Leonard's benefit than actually hers. Leonard was prepared to do anything to keep her but I think she really thought he shouldn't have to. Things before the break up in reality weren't going that well.(the psychic and musician episodes). Also the guys were Leonard's friends. She had no one to really talk to. Priya in a way was just a distraction for Leonard. He liked her but wasn't in love with her like he was with Penny. I think in many ways Amy and Bernie helped Penny realize how much she really did care for Leonard. I think Leonard going out with Priya actually was beneficial to Penny. I think when Leonard asked her out in season 5 he realized how much Penny had changed.

In what noticeable way had she changed? Her issues were Leonard were impossible to see if they had changed until they started dating again. Then all that changed is the she is not so quick to break up with him although that was touch and go there for a bit.

[3ku11]

I agree with you 100 percent that probably from a writing and show perspective they had to be broken up. When I look at the characters though I just don't get it. It seemed too forced. As you said Penny didn't know if she would ever be able to say ILY so she didn't want to string Leonard along. So what changed in Penny from season 4 to season 5 where she agreed to date him again? Nothing that I can see. She still was unsure of being able to say ILY, but this time they agreed to take it slow. They couldn't do this in season 3? I suppose you could say that it is easier to restart at a slower pace than to just hit the brakes on where they were. Also as I asked before. What changed in Leonard from dating Priya? He was still submissive as he did whatever Priya asked of him. He was also still pushy as evidenced when he pushed for her to tell her parents about them. I don't see where he grew at all in that relationship. I would argue his biggest growth came in season 5 when he decided to ask Penny out again and stop overthinking and even before that when he went on the date that was not a date with Penny. So while I totally get that for the show there needed to be a break up I don't think the characters needed it. If you get my meaning. Leonard and Penny are supposed to be the normal relationship. Normal people talk through issues like being in 2 different places in a relationship. I wish they had found another way to handle this the. What they did.

I think your missing some points here they diddn't work through those issues in S3 as they were different people then, Penny was almost settling for Leonard then. And the make up of their relationship could be explained through their relationships with their parents, Leonard was submissive and push/resist with Penny, and Penny hulked out all the time because of their respective mum and dad. And you ask as characters did they grow? They did Leonard did grow from being with Priya it gave him more confidence, and made him more assertive which Penny was looking for, it made Penny stop taking Leonard for granted, and by the point in the 100th ep when Leonard asked Penny out, like Chiara said Leonard realized Penny had changed. I guess your asking if their is any physical proof Leonard and Penny grew, I think it was really subtle and grew over time.

In what noticeable way had she changed? Her issues were Leonard were impossible to see if they had changed until they started dating again. Then all that changed is the she is not so quick to break up with him although that was touch and go there for a bit.

I think you need to re watch S5 and possibly S6 Penny changed alot, like I said it was subtle she is trusting and compromising with Leonard a lot more ,opposed to her hulking out behaviour of S3. I don't think she needed to validate she had changed, I think it was obvious based on her dating, she diddn't date any guy at all in S5 up to Leonard, that was a huge change for me. I think Penny and Leonard have learnt from their past relationship mistakes, and are now working on their relationship that is the biggest change to me.

[Chrismo]

In what noticeable way had she changed? Her issues were Leonard were impossible to see if they had changed until they started dating again. Then all that changed is the she is not so quick to break up with him although that was touch and go there for a bit.

I think in season 3 she was very much alone which caused much of her impulsiveness. In season 5 when he asked her out in  I don't think it was an accident it was in front of Amy and Bernadette.

[Tensor]

I think you need to re watch S5 and possibly S6 Penny changed alot, like I said it was subtle she is trusting and compromising with Leonard a lot more ,opposed to her hulking out behaviour of S3. I don't think she needed to validate she had changed, I think it was obvious based on her dating, she diddn't date any guy at all in S5 up to Leonard, that was a huge change for me. I think Penny and Leonard have learnt from their past relationship mistakes, and are now working on their relationship that is the biggest change to me.

I'd disagree about Penny's dating in Season five. While we don't see her dating anyone, she does tell Sheldon's mother in "The Rhinitis Revelation" that she is getting back out there and she hints that she's had sex. Mary asks her, after seeing her blouse, " Hon, you think maybe the reason why you’re having trouble finding a guy to settle down with is because you’re letting them ride the roller coaster without buying a ticket?"

Penny's answer was, "Oh, they don’t always get to ride the roller coaster. Sometimes they only get to spin the teacups." That is certainly not a flat out admission to having sex, but it does strongly hint that there was at least some petting going on.

[3ku11]

I'd disagree about Penny's dating in Season five. While we don't see her dating anyone, she does tell Sheldon's mother in "The Rhinitis Revelation" that she is getting back out there and she hints that she's had sex. Mary asks her, after seeing her blouse, " Hon, you think maybe the reason why you’re having trouble finding a guy to settle down with is because you’re letting them ride the roller coaster without buying a ticket?"

Penny's answer was, "Oh, they don’t always get to ride the roller coaster. Sometimes they only get to spin the teacups." That is certainly not a flat out admission to having sex, but it does strongly hint that there was at least some petting going on.

haha yeah true but Penny tends to over exaggerate alot when it comes to her love life. For all we know she could be referencing generally, not specifically to any recent dating over the course of the past five months in that periord of time. So while I'll concede that Penny did date a few times in S5 even though it wasen't showed onscreen, she could of gone on a few dates and kissing was involved, but has she said "Sometimes they only get to spin the teacups" she obviousley slowed things down, as if she really actually had sex with any guys over the course of S5, you would think that would be implied involvement from those select guys. So sure Penny may have dated a bit in S5 as an attempt to get over Leonard and move on with her life, but it really emphasises that she subconciousley could of sabotaged those budding relationships, due to probably comparing every single guy (another thing is might of tried to revert back to her normal pre-disposition of dating dumb guys in S5, so you may be right) to Leonard even though he was taken.

[Chrismo]

I'd disagree about Penny's dating in Season five. While we don't see her dating anyone, she does tell Sheldon's mother in "The Rhinitis Revelation" that she is getting back out there and she hints that she's had sex. Mary asks her, after seeing her blouse, " Hon, you think maybe the reason why you’re having trouble finding a guy to settle down with is because you’re letting them ride the roller coaster without buying a ticket?"

Penny's answer was, "Oh, they don’t always get to ride the roller coaster. Sometimes they only get to spin the teacups." That is certainly not a flat out admission to having sex, but it does strongly hint that there was at least some petting going on.

While i do see your point and that episode was just on tonight it could also just be a general staement of her past history.

[Tensor]

hehehehehe, I notice you both say something about it being general, and I could buy that, except that she specifically says she is going out that night. Plus the comment about the blouse, and she talks about getting back out there, after she was asked about how she was doing with Leonard dating Priya.