Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Chiara]

The Lenny always conflicting is starting to get old. In regards to Penny it may be true about her getting anyone (though chances have diminished) Leonard seems the one to attract the ladies (Alex for example).

As per what we see on the show, you could not be more correct. Leonard has a success rate with the ladies second only to James Bond's. 

However, the writers do like to include little references to Penny's remarkable attractiveness, even if they choose not to show us onscreen evidence of it : in The 43 Peculiarity, Leonard referred to guys hitting on his girlfriend right in front of him thereby implying that such a thing has happened on multiple occasions off camera; also in The Hofstadter Deficiency, Amy is surprised that she and Bernadette are offered drinks by unknown men without Penny present, which would indicate that when the girls hit the town, Penny is the one who gets most of the male attention. 

 

It actually makes some sense, Penny and Leonard have their problems (all couples do), but they deal with those problems and then move on. Sure they had a problem 7x04 but they fixed it and it's in the past. The Shamy have a whole backlog of dysfunctions that never get dealt with and every once in a while Sheldon goes to far and it creates real problems. Bernie and Howard really don't let go of their problems, sure they deal with the immediate issue, but they don't address the underlying issue very well, and most of their conflict resolution seems to rely on avoidance.

It is a sad reality of sitcoms that, sometimes, things do not really get resolved properly. Nevertheless, and I am playing devil's advocate here, I believe the Lenny conflict in 7.04 does not get "dealt with" much more than the Hernadette explosion in 7.05 since in both cases, the episode ends with the couple in "turmoil", for lack of a better word. 

 

Unless if by "dealt with" you mean that there is no trace or memory of it in the next episode in which case I would be willing to bet some figurative money on the fight between Bernadette and Howard being long forgotten by 7.06. 

 

I think this what I was originally fumbling around when I was talking about not seeing the big changes some were saying happened post-Priya. You may not totally agree but you conveyed a similar idea better than I did. Like you said I think his assertiveness was always there but he was quick to back down when Penny turned in the tears. That's not happening much now primarily because Penny is talking more about what she wants from him and not flying off the handle as much.

I agree. Now that Penny is no longer using her tears (or her red hot anger) as a defense mechanism (an unvoluntary one, I might add), Leonard has more room to express himself. But he will forever be a sweet, romantic soul who cannot bear his girlfriend's sadness. After all, we (and they) know that if Penny starts crying, Leonard is going to start crying too. 

 

 

 

As for the cuddle, I can only concur with previous posters and say that it is going to make most of us melt. 

 

It is something very specific to Lenny 2.0 : spontaneous, lowkey displays of affection. Back in season 3, their "coupleness" (I apologise to the English language for this vile crime against it) was only visible through their, hmm, "coupling". Sex was the way through which they communicated their love for each other. 

Now, they do those little things without thinking. They do not make a big deal out of them for they come naturally to them. Holding hands at Pr. Puddle of Goo's funeral, Penny taking Leonard's arm when climbing those legendary stairs, Leonard, in the background, smiling at Penny's "I said if it is not epistemic we might as well not do it" or putting his hand on her back when following her into a room, etc. Being together is now part of how they behave spontaneously.

And the cuddling will probably be another prime example of this relatively new and delectable trend : just them watching a movie and finding it much more comfortable to do it cuddled up.

[carl1970]

LP cuddling will be cute.

 

I'm very happy we get a L/P cuddling scene for this episode. I also enjoyed L/P teaming up on Sheldon about his relationship with Amy.

[JonRS92]

I agree. Now that Penny is no longer using her tears (or her red hot anger) as a defense mechanism (an unvoluntary one, I might add), Leonard has more room to express himself. But he will forever be a sweet, romantic soul who cannot bear his girlfriend's sadness. After all, we (and they) know that if Penny starts crying, Leonard is going to start crying too.

As for the cuddle, I can only concur with previous posters and say that it is going to make most of us melt.

It is something very specific to Lenny 2.0 : spontaneous, lowkey displays of affection. Back in season 3, their "coupleness" (I apologise to the English language for this vile crime against it) was only visible through their, hmm, "coupling". Sex was the way through which they communicated their love for each other.

Now, they do those little things without thinking. They do not make a big deal out of them for they come naturally to them.

Great points here. I was starting to come to the same conclusion about season 3 myself. It was all about the sex for both of them. They both have come so far especially in season 6 where it is like a real relationship now with mutual caring beyond the physical. The little details really do matter. It is the exact opposite of the Shamy progression. They started with the little things that they are arguably still working on and moving to the sexual part. Maybe that's why Lenny ended as it did in season 3. It explains why Penny didn't know if she would ever love him and why she felt breaking up was the answer. I didn't get it before but I think I do now. They went about it all backwards. Both clearly caring for the other but neither with the wisdom or experience to do it right. I guess they couldn't just stop and restart in season 3 without the break. When they were able to start after the break the could do it right this time. Since season 6 they now eat dinner alone together, talk together, and do all the little things that indicate affection on a much deeper level. The cuddling in 7.5 seems to be an extension of that now as you pointed out. I guess I wasn't giving the writers enough credit.

[Nogravitasatall]

Great points here. I was starting to come to the same conclusion about season 3 myself. It was all about the sex for both of them. They both have come so far especially in season 6 where it is like a real relationship now with mutual caring beyond the physical. The little details really do matter. It is the exact opposite of the Shamy progression. They started with the little things that they are arguably still working on and moving to the sexual part. Maybe that's why Lenny ended as it did in season 3. It explains why Penny didn't know if she would ever love him and why she felt breaking up was the answer. I didn't get it before but I think I do now. They went about it all backwards. Both clearly caring for the other but neither with the wisdom or experience to do it right. I guess they couldn't just stop and restart in season 3 without the break. When they were able to start after the break the could do it right this time. Since season 6 they now eat dinner alone together, talk together, and do all the little things that indicate affection on a much deeper level. The cuddling in 7.5 seems to be an extension of that now as you pointed out. I guess I wasn't giving the writers enough credit.

They are working through it backwards, or perhaps instead, the right way around for them. Sex is not the endgame, it's part of the introduction. Which plays against the "save yourself for your one true love" model, which maybe overvalues a fairly available and widely practiced physical act and creates unnecessary anxiety (given current pharmaceutical technology). There are a lot of depictions out there of people seeking gratification like 19 year olds. The long slow game these guys play is terrific.

At the end of s6 I was certain that they were going to change the L/P paradigm and show how they can work to resolve their problems instead of working against each other. Even Beverly in the bedroom was an example of that, as they worked something out without self-destructing (Leonard will get over his mum in the bedroom and has learnt a valuable lesson - don't ever underestimate Penny). I still think that any real threat will be external now, and require maybe more selflessness. It might even involve success for one of them or competing successes and they will have to make some choices at s7.24. So the snuggling might be part of a set up, but I will enjoy seeing it.

Eta: I just got around to looking at the pics from the scavenger hunt ep. Pigtails. Adorable.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[I.H.S.F.C.]

I agree. It appears that Shamy fans are in euphoria and I don't understand why. In regards to H/B they don't seem to address their conflicts.

 

It's something I have noticed about fans of both ships for a while now.  Shamy fans focus solely on the positive aspects of interactions between the two characters and completely ignore the negatives.  Lenny fans are almost the exact opposite, normally seeing the worst in every interaction (or trying to see the worst until they see it on screen and realize it was blown out of proportion).  I don't know if it is because Lenny fans have been through so much with the couple that they have PTSD or what.  If you had reversed the roles of the characters in this episode, the Lenny fans would be beside themselves.

[Nogravitasatall]

It's something I have noticed about fans of both ships for a while now. Shamy fans focus solely on the positive aspects of interactions between the two characters and completely ignore the negatives. Lenny fans are almost the exact opposite, normally seeing the worst in every interaction (or trying to see the worst until they see it on screen and realize it was blown out of proportion). I don't know if it is because Lenny fans have been through so much with the couple that they have PTSD or what. If you had reversed the roles of the characters in this episode, the Lenny fans would be beside themselves.

Post "Wheaton Recurrence" and "Roommate transmogrification" related stress disorder. LOL.

I suffer from it. Take nothing for granted or at face value. Look for the razor blade in the apple. Etc.

ETA Snow White was a sap.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[ArmyGirl]

Post "Wheaton Recurrence" and "Roommate transmogrification" related stress disorder. LOL.

 

Some act like we as Lenny Fans don't have a reason(s) to be skeptical when we have been dealt some major blows over the years.  Where as Shamy has basically been smooth sailing and protected by the writers.   It's easy to be happy when nothing really bad has happens to your ship.

Edited September 25, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Chrismo]

It's something I have noticed about fans of both ships for a while now.  Shamy fans focus solely on the positive aspects of interactions between the two characters and completely ignore the negatives.  Lenny fans are almost the exact opposite, normally seeing the worst in every interaction (or trying to see the worst until they see it on screen and realize it was blown out of proportion).  I don't know if it is because Lenny fans have been through so much with the couple that they have PTSD or what.  If you had reversed the roles of the characters in this episode, the Lenny fans would be beside themselves.

It seems to me it relates to Sheldon and Penny. When Sheldon does something positive Shamy fans seem to fall all over themselves. When he does something wrong it's just Sheldon and he doesn't know any better. I don't think in this case if this had been Leonard instead of Sheldon  Lenny fans wouldn't of been positive but I don't think they would have been that negative. On the other hand if this had been Penny there would be a lot of negative comments. Another reason for the difference in the ships and this will probably get me in trouble is most(not all) Shamy fans IMO are women compared to Lenny fans that are more evenly divided. Shamy fans give the impression he can walk on water. You are probably write about Lenny fans being much more negative but I think they too are much more realistic. And that also goes back to Lenny having a much longer history.

[phantagrae]

Some act like we as Lenny Fans don't have a reason(s) to be skeptical when we have been dealt some major blows over the years.  Where as Shamy has basically been smooth sailing and protected by the writers.   It's easy to be happy when nothing really bad has happens to your ship.

 

Yes, but don't you guys understand that all that stuff is in the past and that they're not going to revisit it?  All of the ups and downs that L&P went through were leading to where they are now--in a good, stable, trusting, loving relationship.

 

They're not going to have her go cheating on Leonard or sleeping with Raj or anything like that.  I've seen all the episodes, too, and I know that L&P broke up in the past, but they weren't in the strong, mutually open place they are at now.  It doesn't matter if L/P is my main interest or not--the truth is the truth.

 

Enjoy the love.

[JonRS92]

They are working through it backwards, or perhaps instead, the right way around for them. Sex is not the endgame, it's part of the introduction. Which plays against the "save yourself for your one true love" model, which maybe overvalues a fairly available and widely practiced physical act and creates unnecessary anxiety (given current pharmaceutical technology). There are a lot of depictions out there of people seeking gratification like 19 year olds. The long slow game these guys play is terrific.

At the end of s6 I was certain that they were going to change the L/P paradigm and show how they can work to resolve their problems instead of working against each other. Even Beverly in the bedroom was an example of that, as they worked something out without self-destructing (Leonard will get over his mum in the bedroom and has learnt a valuable lesson - don't ever underestimate Penny). I still think that any real threat will be external now, and require maybe more selflessness. It might even involve success for one of them or competing successes and they will have to make some choices at s7.24. So the snuggling might be part of a set up, but I will enjoy seeing it.

Eta: I just got around to looking at the pics from the scavenger hunt ep. Pigtails. Adorable.

 

Now that I am looking at this from the way I guess most of you already were, it seems so much more logical to me.  It had to be the way it was.  Penny probably had never been in a relationship that wasn't just about the sex.  She knew no other relationship type and went into her relationship with Leonard seemingly treating it the same way.  She treated it the same, but I think deep down she knew she had to approach it different (she said as much before their first date) but just did not know how.  When Leonard stuns her with the ILY, it must have really hit home.  She knew she couldn't commit and probably misunderstood her own feelings feeling that she might never be able to the way he wanted.  I don't think either had the wisdom and maturity to slow down and rearrange it.  Thus the necessary break and restart.  It is like tearing down a crappy building to rebuild it with a stronger foundation.  I don't have any guesses as to where the trials will come in season 7, but seeing as they did something with Leonard last season, maybe this season it is Penny's turn.  I really have no idea.

[Chrismo]

Some act like we as Lenny Fans don't have a reason(s) to be skeptical when we have been dealt some major blows over the years.  Where as Shamy has basically been smooth sailing and protected by the writers.   It's easy to be happy when nothing really bad has happens to your ship.

 

Yes, but don't you guys understand that all that stuff is in the past and that they're not going to revisit it?  All of the ups and downs that L&P went through were leading to where they are now--in a good, stable, trusting, loving relationship.

 

They're not going to have her go cheating on Leonard or sleeping with Raj or anything like that.  I've seen all the episodes, too, and I know that L&P broke up in the past, but they weren't in the strong, mutually open place they are at now.  It doesn't matter if L/P is my main interest or not--the truth is the truth.

 

Enjoy the love.

But @Army is right things have been smooth sailing for the Shamy. I think a break up for the Shamy would be good for their relationship actually. It would help straighten out Sheldon. But I could here the wailing through the screen if that happened. I agree with your second paragraph @phantagrae on the Lenny. Nothing like that is going to happen in their relationship. Things are a lot better now.

[Kasey]

I think that when you ship a couple that has had a lot of up and downs, you don't necessarily think "oh good the worst is over".  I think you get a bit shell shocked as to when the next bomb is going to drop.  That's how I feel sometimes with Lenny shipping.  Human nature...

[phantagrae]

But @Army is right things have been smooth sailing for the Shamy. I think a break up for the Shamy would be good for their relationship actually. It would help straighten out Sheldon. But I could here the wailing through the screen if that happened. I agree with your second paragraph @phantagrae on the Lenny. Nothing like that is going to happen in their relationship. Things are a lot better now.

 

Why does Sheldon need to be "straightened up"?  He and Amy can and have had their own ups and downs, especially last season, but what would breaking them up accomplish?  Their relationship is so naive (for now) and really pretty sweet.  They've already accepted each other, quirks and all, and have a much healthier way of working through their disputes than the other couples.  And they actually had a break-up very early on in their relationship.

 

Sheldon may be unintentionally rude to Amy, but he usually gets it figured out right away because someone is there to tell him what he did wrong.

 

I also think that breaking up the Shamy would be like kicking a puppy.

[JonRS92]

While I agree with your best match  assessment of the Shamy this episode didn't end well for them. I think Amy will eventually lose it with him and there could be  possibly a temporary break up. Amy and Sheldon have gone years earlier with no SO. The Lenny always conflicting is starting to get old. In regards to Penny it may be true about her getting anyone (though chances have diminished) Leonard seems the one to attract the ladies (Alex for example).

 

Another thing is that Shamy fights are usually solved within that same episode.  The un-PC question here is this, do you really think that either of them is going to find someone else?  Amy might, but I highly doubt Sheldon will.  That kind of influences my opinion at least that there is no real threat to Shamy other than maybe going it alone.  Neither one of them want that.  Despite how this new one might have ended, I think there was a lot to look positively at.  Even if there is a split between the two I don't think it lasts long, nowhere near as long as the Lenny breakup.  Speaking of Penny, I don't see her "chances" of getting another guy diminished.  She's still Penny and still hot.  I'd argue that her maturation with Leonard makes her an even more desirable girlfriend.  What I will stipulate to is the "likelihood" of her "wanting" another guy has gone way way down.  She's chosen her guy and unless Leonard screws up royally, he probably doesn't have to worry.

 

It seems to me it relates to Sheldon and Penny. When Sheldon does something positive Shamy fans seem to fall all over themselves. When he does something wrong it's just Sheldon and he doesn't know any better. I don't think in this case if this had been Leonard instead of Sheldon  Lenny fans wouldn't of been positive but I don't think they would have been that negative. On the other hand if this had been Penny there would be a lot of negative comments. Another reason for the difference in the ships and this will probably get me in trouble is most(not all) Shamy fans IMO are women compared to Lenny fans that are more evenly divided. Shamy fans give the impression he can walk on water. You are probably write about Lenny fans being much more negative but I think they too are much more realistic. And that also goes back to Lenny having a much longer history.

 

I would think if the roles had been reversed and this was a Lenny problem you would definitely seen more negativity but that is because of their past problems.  As you said, it is just being realists.  There have been 2 splits already.  I think we also expect more of Leonard than of Sheldon because Leonard is more normal.  I am a school teacher by profession so I look at these 2 this way in terms of relationships: Leonard is the honor student who we expect more of.  Sheldon is the lower-achiever who we praise even for the little successes because those little successes are every bit as important as Leonard's bigger ones because they were probably harder to achieve.  At the risk of starting a fight (keep in mind that I am pro Lenny all the way and pro-Shamy) I would argue that Sheldon has put more effort into his relationship with Amy than Leonard has with Penny.

[eirwinrommel]

Yes, but don't you guys understand that all that stuff is in the past and that they're not going to revisit it?  All of the ups and downs that L&P went through were leading to where they are now--in a good, stable, trusting, loving relationship.

 

They're not going to have her go cheating on Leonard or sleeping with Raj or anything like that.  I've seen all the episodes, too, and I know that L&P broke up in the past, but they weren't in the strong, mutually open place they are at now.  It doesn't matter if L/P is my main interest or not--the truth is the truth.

 

Enjoy the love.

Yeah, right! As they say once charred to the bone, twice shy.

Edited September 25, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[Kasey]

 

 

.  At the risk of starting a fight (keep in mind that I am pro Lenny all the way and pro-Shamy) I would argue that Sheldon has put more effort into his relationship with Amy than Leonard has with Penny.

 

I would agree on the basis that it was and is much harder for Sheldon to have any type of relationship so his effort is exponentially more.  That doesn't mean thought that Leonard doesn't have to even try.  He is not without his own problems..

[Chrismo]

Why does Sheldon need to be "straightened up"?  He and Amy can and have had their own ups and downs, especially last season, but what would breaking them up accomplish?  Their relationship is so naive (for now) and really pretty sweet.  They've already accepted each other, quirks and all, and have a much healthier way of working through their disputes than the other couples.  And they actually had a break-up very early on in their relationship.

 

Sheldon may be unintentionally rude to Amy, but he usually gets it figured out right away because someone is there to tell him what he did wrong.

 

I also think that breaking up the Shamy would be like kicking a puppy.

Sheldon always getting his way seems to be getting old. Its about time there is "real consequences" to his actions.  Its sounds like in this episode that he took two steps forward and at the end two steps back. I do remember their half episode break up. He can't expect others to explain everything to him when he does wrong.

As to breaking up Shamy is like kicking a puppy they've been puppies too long it's time for them to become dogs.

[JonRS92]

I would agree on the basis that it was and is much harder for Sheldon to have any type of relationship so his effort is exponentially more. That doesn't mean thought that Leonard doesn't have to even try. He is not without his own problems..

Agreed. That's what I meant. And yes Leonard has to try. That's how relationships work. And I think he has tried as has Penny and Amy.

[Nogravitasatall]

Another thing is that Shamy fights are usually solved within that same episode. The un-PC question here is this, do you really think that either of them is going to find someone else? Amy might, but I highly doubt Sheldon will. That kind of influences my opinion at least that there is no real threat to Shamy other than maybe going it alone. Neither one of them want that. Despite how this new one might have ended, I think there was a lot to look positively at. Even if there is a split between the two I don't think it lasts long, nowhere near as long as the Lenny breakup. Speaking of Penny, I don't see her "chances" of getting another guy diminished. She's still Penny and still hot. I'd argue that her maturation with Leonard makes her an even more desirable girlfriend. What I will stipulate to is the "likelihood" of her "wanting" another guy has gone way way down. She's chosen her guy and unless Leonard screws up royally, he probably doesn't have to worry.

I would think if the roles had been reversed and this was a Lenny problem you would definitely seen more negativity but that is because of their past problems. As you said, it is just being realists. There have been 2 splits already. I think we also expect more of Leonard than of Sheldon because Leonard is more normal. I am a school teacher by profession so I look at these 2 this way in terms of relationships: Leonard is the honor student who we expect more of. Sheldon is the lower-achiever who we praise even for the little successes because those little successes are every bit as important as Leonard's bigger ones because they were probably harder to achieve. At the risk of starting a fight (keep in mind that I am pro Lenny all the way and pro-Shamy) I would argue that Sheldon has put more effort into his relationship with Amy than Leonard has with Penny.

wait till you meet a " nostalgic", but please take those discussions out of this thread before they start and we have a meltdown on our hands. AGAIN.

[I.Am.Molly]

*Whipsers* Um, guys... Tomorrow is the premiere and Leonard is coming home. Early. To surprise Penny. We are going to see that, tomorrow.

 

 

Tomorrow we will get 'Leonard comes home: 2.0'

 

  :dancer:                   

 

 

Just putting that out there.

[phantagrae]

Yeah, right! As they say once charred to the bone, twice shy.

 

I dunno--sometimes it seems to me that it's more like, once you've tasted the drama, you can't live without it, even if you have to find it where it doesn't exist.  Like crack.

[I.Am.Molly]

 

This. Tomorrow.

 

  :dancer:     I enjoy this emoticon btw.      Pretty much sums up how i feel right now.  

[terriblewaitress]

*Whipsers* Um, guys... Tomorrow is the premiere and Leonard is coming home. Early. To surprise Penny. We are going to see that, tomorrow.

 

 

Tomorrow we will get 'Leonard comes home: 2.0'

 

  :dancer:                   

 

 

Just putting that out there.

 

 

 

This. Tomorrow.

 

*sprinkles fairy dust and waves Leonard & Penny banner* 

 

woo! 

 

i have been waiting four months for this! don't know how penny handled waiting for leonard to return but this has been a long summer guys. 

 

lets all remember that we are united here in our love for leonard and penny and we get to see them being all cute and couple-y TOMORROW! 

[Nogravitasatall]

I dunno--sometimes it seems to me that it's more like, once you've tasted the drama, you can't live without it, even if you have to find it where it doesn't exist. Like crack.

Crack whore, me. Gettin' my fix tomorrow, in some magical way, and probably vicariously through the good people here.

(and rule sticklers should respect the shipping rules... Lol and with genuine affection).

*sprinkles fairy dust and waves Leonard & Penny banner*

woo!

i have been waiting four months for this! don't know how penny handled waiting for leonard to return but this has been a long summer guys.

lets all remember that we are united here in our love for leonard and penny and we get to see them being all cute and couple-y TOMORROW!

I like this.

[Disgusted]

wait till you meet a " nostalgic", but please take those discussions out of this thread before they start and we have a meltdown on our hands. AGAIN.

 

Well, I've been called worse.....  .   We already "met" on another thread.

 

I will be AFK until Monday,   so you kiddo's have fun, any destruction will be of your own making