Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[I.Am.Molly]

Just an observations from 7.02 (Leonard's return):

Did you guys notice Sheldon has a key on his key ring to Penny's apartment?

- Wonder how Leonard felt seeing this?

Also found it interesting how Penny was dressed for bed with Leonard away

- versus when Leonard came to her door about Buffy.

Notice the difference in how Penny wore her hair in 7.01

- versus 7.02 and this not the first time I notice this.

There are others things I notice and I just wonder what it means. Or maybe I am like Leonard overthinking.

Yeah. You're overthinking it.

[JonRS92]

To me, Penny certainly seemed like she really missed him and was glad he was home. We know from the first episode that Leonard was having a whale of a time on the expedition so he was probably less affected by the time apart, but he did come to her first thing upon his return. And while your last sentence is often true, in this instance maybe Penny is just being somewhat modest(for Leonard, at least, if not for herself.) I wouldn't expect her to jump up and shout about how great the sex was, especially in front of Sheldon and Amy. But of coarse I tend to interpret things in a positive light even sometimes when it might not be justified.

I'm not sure whether that "it was fine" remark was about modesty or more slight annoyance at have Sheldon interrupt her quality time with Leonard. I saw her as more annoyed or sad about the interruption and fight than modesty or anything else about the quality of the sex.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

To me, Penny certainly seemed like she really missed him and was glad he was home. We know from the first episode that Leonard was having a whale of a time on the expedition so he was probably less affected by the time apart, but he did come to her first thing upon his return. And while your last sentence is often true, in this instance maybe Penny is just being somewhat modest(for Leonard, at least, if not for herself.) I wouldn't expect her to jump up and shout about how great the sex was, especially in front of Sheldon and Amy. But of coarse I tend to interpret things in a positive light even sometimes when it might not be justified.

I totally agree, there was nothing wrong with the way Leonard and Penny interacted.

 

As for the "it was fine", well there are plenty of reasons why Penny would say that:

1.) It's been 4 months since they've had sex, a slight drop in quality is really to be expected

2.) She's saying this to Amy who, despite being in a 3 year relationship with Sheldon, is probably 3+ years away from getting any for herself

3.) Giving details is not exactly going to help defuse the situation with Sheldon

4.) Sheldon is there, so anything she says she might as well be saying directly to Raj and Howard

5.) Anything she says would probably draw some highly disturbing analysis from Sheldon

6.) Modesty probably comes into it as well, especially with Leonard in the room

7.) As we've seen she really doesn't like others knowing details of her sex life (the blog, her reaction in 3x02 when she finds out that Leonard said something to the guys.)

Really it could be any of these, so pick and choose as you like, and feel free to add any other reasons you come up with.

[terriblewaitress]

I see no problem in the way they reunited and I think it had plenty of spark. Remember that S3 was a long time ago and both characters have grown since then, as has their relationship - they don't have to jump on each other to show how much they have missed each other and love each other, etc. The hug was absolutely lovely and for me that was better than if she had jumped on him and dragged him to the bedroom because it was a more personal, emotional kind of intimacy. 

 

As for the "it was fine" comment, I always got the impression that Penny doesn't want to share her bedroom experiences in that way any more. We know Leonard must be pretty good in bed from the bed breaking, etc. She said before "and in the bedroom, he really tries" but she's the one who constantly wants to make out with him and stuff. Probably doesn't want to share how much of a God he is but like yeah, maybe she wants some modesty and to keep that private because it means more to her now.

 

And Sheldon having a key uh I think that's just a spare key. Haven't they always had one? He has respected her enough not to use it, like, when he comes over from his nightmare. 

[gsxdoug]

I'm not sure whether that "it was fine" remark was about modesty or more slight annoyance at have Sheldon interrupt her quality time with Leonard. I saw her as more annoyed or sad about the interruption and fight than modesty or anything else about the quality of the sex.

Also a perfectly valid interpretation.

[3ku11]

I think their are some differences here, I coulden't be happier about their reunion. Back in Season 3 they gave in to their desires straight away, and probably rushed into things too soon. Since then they have learnt a lot about each other, dated other people, matured and evolved individually and collectively. So their relationship back in S3 was purley physical at times, in S5, S6, and now S7 their is an emotional intimacy and trust that just wasen't their in S3, so this time opposed to rushing into things Leonard and Penny missed their relationship, so the fact Leonard diddn't rush Penny to her bed straight away and instead wanting to show Penny what he had been up to the past four months, and seeing Penny had being doing nothing but sit around and miss that "jerk" lol, this time around they missed their relationship not the act that follows.

Edited September 30, 2013 by 3ku11

[eirwinrommel]

I think their are some differences here, I coulden't be happier about their reunion. Back in Season 3 they gave in to their desires straight away, and probably rushed into things too soon. Since then they have learnt a lot about each other, dated other people, matured and evolved individually and collectively. So their relationship back in S3 was purley physical at times, in S5, S6, and now S7 their is an emotional intimacy and trust that just wasen't their in S3, so this time opposed to rushing into things Leonard and Penny missed their relationship, so the fact Leonard diddn't rush Penny to her bed straight away and instead wanting to show Penny what he had been up to the past four months, and seeing Penny had being doing nothing but sit around and miss that "jerk" lol, this time around they missed their relationship not the act that follows.

Actually I believe that was the next day. Penny, Leonard, and Sheldon were all wearing different clothes.

[3ku11]

Actually I believe that was the next day. Penny, Leonard, and Sheldon were all wearing different clothes.

Are you referring to Season 3 when they went to Texas to get Sheldon back? Yeah so Season 3 was different to Season 7 in terms of Leonard, but same thing applies when it comes to Leonard and Penny's relationship and how matured and refined it has become over the next four seasons.

[eirwinrommel]

Are you referring to Season 3 when they went to Texas to get Sheldon back? Yeah so Season 3 was different to Season 7 in terms of Leonard, but same thing applies when it comes to Leonard and Penny's relationship and how matured and refined it has become over the next four seasons.

No, I'm referring to the second episode of this season. When Leonard returns, he and Penny are dressed as in your current avatar. When they are viewing the pictures on Leonard's phone they are wearing different clothes. Sheldon is wearing a different T-shirt at the comic book store, than when he and Penny are returning from the grocery store.

 

Coming home from grocery store

 

http://www.cbs.com/shows/big_bang_theory/photos/1000736/penny-sheldon-in-the-deception-verification-episode-2-of-season-7/43286

 

 

Looking at Pictures on Leonard's phone

 

http://www.cbs.com/shows/big_bang_theory/photos/1000736/season-7-episode-2/43285/

 

 

Sheldon at Comic Book store (aprox. same time)

 

http://www.cbs.com/shows/big_bang_theory/photos/1000736/season-7-episode-2/43275/

Edited September 30, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[3ku11]

No, I'm referring to the second episode of this season. When Leonard returns, he and Penny are dressed as in your current avatar. When they are viewing the pictures on Leonard's phone they are wearing different clothes. Sheldon is wearing a different T-shirt at the comic book store, than when he and Penny are returning from the grocery store.

Oh yeah sorry I only watched the episode once haha, not sure that implied Leonard was in her apartment for an entire night before Sheldon found out, as it was right after the Pizza guy left, and Sheldon was telling Amy about all those chinese boxes. So I think Leonard was in their all about half an hour, prob had a real shower haha, did some catch with Penny, and then Leonard showed Penny those pictures, then Sheldon stormed in i don't think it was day after when you think about it, time differences just don't add up.

[eirwinrommel]

Oh yeah sorry I only watched the episode once haha, not sure that implied Leonard was in her apartment for an entire night before Sheldon found out, as it was right after the Pizza guy left, and Sheldon was telling Amy about all those chinese boxes. So I think Leonard was in their all about half an hour, prob had a real shower haha, did some catch with Penny, and then Leonard showed Penny those pictures, then Sheldon stormed in i don't think it was day after when you think about it, time differences just don't add up.

I believe you are mistaken. If Leonard wanted a shower, he could have taken it while Penny was returning to the grocery store with Sheldon and his three eggs that were "clearly not jumbo". That may explain why Leonard has changed, but it doesn't explain why Penny and Sheldon have changed clothes. Not to mention that Sheldon would have changed before going to the comic book store, and getting Chinese food. It is much more likely  that L/P spent the night having fun. Viewing the pictures on Leonard's phone, the trip to the comic book store, the pizza and Amy coming over took place the next day. Explaining why the three of them were wearing different clothes.

Edited September 30, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[Chiara]

The reunion was perfectly fine to me. Sweet and not overdone (Leonard was not in danger or anything). It was perfectly offbeat, like the couple itself. However...

 

The old: Don't say you love me, SHOW ME(My Fair Lady Reference). Penny been showing Leonard so far in season seven. She has had the locket on in every scene, even when she's been sleeping. Penny, in a continuation from last year, has also been touching Leonard in every scene together (yes, I know it's only been one episode, but still, every time they've been together she's got her arm on him, her hand on his knee, grabbing his leg etc.). Interestingly, Leonard hasn't been reciprocating all the time, which would seem to indicate he's got some confidence about the whole thing.

I have just been thinking about this "Leonard not always reciprocating" bit and I agree completely. I had not managed ot nail it that succintly in my mind but that is it. Added to Nogravitasatall's idea that the relationship between Leonard and Penny is being "normalised" (with the latter demonstrating her level of commitment and the former no longer overthinking the whole thing), with which I also agree wholeheartedly, it really feels as if the writers are preparing for some fallout. Nothing overly damaging, but a possibly substantial event nonetheless. 

 

Penny's disaste for "hearts and flowers" is not merely the result of her tomboy-ish personality. It is, of course, but not just.

It also the product of bad experiences. Indeed, from what we know, she always was the "committed" one in her previous relationships. Now, I am firmly of the opinion that she had never really been in love before falling for Leonard (if anything, her ability to bounce back almost immediately after each of her past breakups was a testament to how shallow her true attachment to those other men was); however, she played the part of the "girl in love" pretty well to her audience of loser and moron boyfriends : lending them money when they needed it (The Financial Permeability), having loads of fun with them in unusual places (The Tangerine Factor), allowing them to take photographs (The Bath Item Gift Hypothesis), teaching them how to drink Champagne "phonily" (The Tangible Affection Proof), etc.

And, just as invariably as she used to pull her own weight in those relationships regardless of how irrelevant they truly were to her, the guys continuously would not : they used to take advantage, profit, exploit, lie and cheat. In short, they used not to reciprocate her attentions...

 

Now, I have no doubt Leonard needs to relax. In fact, I am quite certain his relationship with Penny would benefit (and, indeed, has benefited) greatly from him no longer looking over his shoulder, poor soul, in fear of some catastrophe capable of blowing everything to smithereens. However, the lack of reciprocation thing goes a bit further than that. 

 

The writers know the catalogue of idiots Penny dated before Leonard. Hell, they invented them. They know who they are, theirs ways, what they used to do and what they used not to do, and for six years, they depicted Dr Hofstadter as these men's antithesis. So now, for them to have Leonard display behaviours even vaguely similar to those guys' seems a tad foreshadow-y to me. 

If it were just Leonard having too much fun on the boat to pay attention to Penny's call, it would be absolutely fine.

If it were just Leonard not wanting Penny on his team for the scavenger hunt, it would be OK.

If it were just Leonard milking Penny's compassion for his own gain, it would be alright.

But it is all three, in quick succession. At this point, it is almost a Moscow rule : "Once is happenstance; twice is coincidence; three times, it's enemy action".

 

Now, it could be that 7.04, being the third strike and all that jazz, is the last we ever see of this pattern. Maybe dropping the Beverly, being the mother of all nuclear retaliations (kneel before this dreadful pun), will be the be-all and end-all of "The Hofstadter/Past Morons Similarity" storyline. It could definitely be so. But will it be ? Will TPTB really end such an interesting and novel plotline almost immediately after they introduced it ? And before November sweeps, of all times ? 

Colour me unconvinced (I believe that is a rather nauseating shade of puce). 

 

I ain't no Cassandra but me think there is something cooking. Nothing dreadful, mind you. The show has another four to five years to go (conservative yet realistic estimate) and the writers have way too much on their plate (the Lenny wedding to lead to, Shamy progression to organise, Raj's love life to create almost ex nihilo, the Hernadette to define further, the Hofstadter/Cooper living arrangements to settle, the guys' scientifc pursuits to broaden, Penny's career to launch, a variety of family members to introduce, Geek culture aspects to explore, jokes to disseminate and, above all, a suitable cameo to imagine for William Shatner...) to add a Lenny breakup/reconciliation combo into the mix so there is, I believe, absolutely no need to panic. But TPTB may have their eyes on a little explosion to keep the year's penultimate month interesting.

So this season's drama could be brought to us by Leonard who will have some 'splainin' to do.

 

There may be trouble ahead but while there's music and moonlight and love and romance...

Edited September 30, 2013 by Chiara

[3ku11]

I believe you are mistaken. If Leonard wanted a shower, he could have taken it while Penny was returning to the grocery store with Sheldon and his three eggs that were "clearly not jumbo". That may explain why Leonard has changed, but it doesn't explain why Penny and Sheldon have changed clothes. Not to mention that Sheldon would have changed before going to the comic book store, and getting Chinese food. It is much more likely  that L/P spent the night having fun and viewing the pictures on Leonard's phone, the trip to the comic book store, the pizza and Amy coming over took place the next day. Explaining why the three of them were wearing different clothes.

Oh yeah you are right, I was backtracking in terms of the fact, I assumed Sheldon at the comic book store was just right after Leonard came back home, so I thought it was in a half an hour proximity, that Sheldon saw the two wines and the chinese boxes, considering it was right after Penny ordered Pizza. So yeah your probably right, although if you notice Leonard is wearing the same clothes he wore the day before, he still has that silver jacket on, although he always wears those clothes haha. So most likely Leonard and Penny had fun watching dvd's, did some catch up time haha considering they have been apart for four months, and Leonard showed Penny those slides of his expedition and then obviousley Sheldon came a knocking .

Edited September 30, 2013 by 3ku11

[eirwinrommel]

Yes, there could be a few bumps in the road (every one has them). I just hope they won't derail things. I really hope that all the 'fun' Leonard had on the boat doesn't come back to bite him.

[3ku11]

The reunion was perfectly fine to me. Sweet and not overdone (Leonard was not in danger or anything). It was perfectly offbeat, like the couple itself. However...

 

I have just been thinking about this "Leonard not always reciprocating" bit and I agree completely. I had not managed ot nail it that succintly in my mind but that is it. Added to Nogravitasatall's idea that the relationship between Leonard and Penny is being "normalised" (with the latter demonstrating her level of commitment and the former no longer overthinking the whole thing), with which I also agree wholeheartedly, it really feels as if the writers are preparing for some fallout. Nothing overly damaging, but a possibly substantial event nonetheless. 

 

Penny's disaste for "hearts and flowers" is not merely the result of her tomboy-ish personality. It is, of course, but not just.

It also the product of bad experiences. Indeed, from what we know, she always was the "committed" one in her previous relationships. Now, I am firmly of the opinion that she had never really been in love before falling for Leonard (if anything, her ability to bounce back almost immediately after each of her past breakups was a testament to how shallow her true attachment to those other men was); however, she played the part of the "girl in love" pretty well to her audience of loser and moron boyfriends : lending them money when they needed it (The Financial Permeability), having loads of fun with them in unusual places (The Tangerine Factor), allowing them to take photographs (The Bath Item Gift Hypothesis), teaching them how to drink Champagne "phonily" (The Tangible Affection Proof), etc.

And, just as invariably as she used to pull her own weight in those relationships regardless of how irrelevant they truly were to her, the guys continuously would not : they used to take advantage, profit, exploit, lie and cheat. In short, they used not to reciprocate her attentions...

 

Now, I have no doubt Leonard needs to relax. In fact, I am quite certain his relationship with Penny would benefit (and, indeed, has benefited) greatly from him no longer looking over his shoulder, poor soul, in fear of some catastrophe capable of blowing everything to smithereens. However, the lack of reciprocation thing goes a bit further than that. 

 

The writers know the catalogue of idiots Penny dated before Leonard. Hell, they invented them. They know who they are, theirs ways, what they used to do and what they used not to do, and for six years, they depicted Dr Hofstadter as these men's antithesis. So now, for them to have Leonard display behaviours even vaguely similar to those guys' seems a tad foreshadow-y to me. 

If it were just Leonard having too much fun on the boat to pay attention to Penny's call, it would be absolutely fine.

If it were just Leonard not wanting Penny on his team for the scavenger hunt, it would be OK.

If it were just Leonard milking Penny's compassion for his own gain, it would be alright.

But it is all three, in quick succession. At this point, it is almost a Moscow rule : "Once is happenstance; twice is coincidence; three times, it's enemy action".

 

Now, it could be that 7.04, being the third strike and all that jazz, is the last we ever see of this pattern. Maybe dropping the Beverly, being the mother of all nuclear retaliations (kneel before this dreadful pun), will be the be-all and end-all of "The Hofstadter/Past Morons Similarity" storyline. It could definitely be so. But will it be ? Will TPTB really end such an interesting and novel plotline almost immediately after they introduced it ? And before November sweeps, of all times ? 

Colour me unconvinced (I believe that is a rather nauseating shade of puce). 

 

I ain't no Cassandra but me think there is something cooking. Nothing dreadful, mind you. The show has another four to five years to go (conservative yet realistic estimate) and the writers have way too much on their plate (the Lenny wedding to lead to, Shamy progression to organise, Raj's love life to create almost ex nihilo, the Hernadette to define further, the Hofstadter/Cooper living arrangements to settle, the guys' scientifc pursuits to broaden, Penny's career to launch, a variety of family members to introduce, Geek culture aspects to explore, jokes to disseminate and, above all, a suitable cameo to imagine for William Shatner...) to add a Lenny breakup/reconciliation combo into the mix so there is, I believe, absolutely no need to panic. But TPTB may have their eyes on a little explosion to keep the year's penultimate month interesting.

So this season's drama could be brought to us by Leonard who will have some 'splainin' to do.

 

There may be trouble ahead but while there's music and moonlight and love and romance...

I think though those things you listed show's growth in Leonard, he is showing more assertiveness in his relationship, he is a lot more confident now. You got to understand now too Leonard and Penny have never been in this place in their relationship, either Leonard has been chasing Penny, or when they have been together either Penny hulks out or Leonard is to submissive or not submissive enough, or when they are friends they are moments but neither or takes advantage of those moments. They are now equals and Leonard is in a relationship for the first time in his life as is Penny, where the women he loves, loves him as equally as he does. So he is probably testing the boundaries, seeing what he can get away with even if it is sub-conciousley, I get the feeling the writers are going to test this new relationship and it's boundaries, and I have the feeling they are so strong now they can get through anything. Penny has now choosen Leonard and no one else, and Leonard knows the women he has been madly in love with since they first met loves him just as much, so a bit of testing the waters from the writers I think. And tbh from my point of view it is a nice change seeing Leonard not submissive, being assertive and not seeking approval from Penny, it brings a new dynamic to their relationship, keep's things interesting in a way, as their is no reason to break them up just for the sake of drama or storylines, they can get that out of Lenny without breaking them up, no way does anyone want a R and R scenario.

Yes, there could be a few bumps in the road (every one has them). I just hope they won't derail things. I really hope that all the 'fun' Leonard had on the boat doesn't come back to bite him.

What you think Penny may find out he is not a very good dancer lol? I get where your coming from though, if she found out about the movie showing she may be a bit embarrassed, but the clip was shown and it wasen't a big deal Penny was pratically covered. And the fact when he was on the phone with Penny and Sheldon, he was like "Hey everyone it's Penny!" implies too me he has been talking about her a lot, and it is not the first time he wanted to show off the fact he has a hot girlfriend, Bakersfield expedition, Penny diddn't seem to have a problem. And it's not like she can take the moral high ground, after all she never told Leonard about the movie, for all she knew this whole time Leonard diddn't know about it.

Edited September 30, 2013 by 3ku11

[Chiara]

Yes, there could be a few bumps in the road (every one has them). I just hope they won't derail things. I really hope that all the 'fun' Leonard had on the boat doesn't come back to bite him.

I believe cheating is definitely out. In sitcomland (I would not dare to comment about real life), adultery is "insta-douchebag" potion and there is little hope for any cheater ever to find redemption, which is why comedy writers try to stay away from the topic altogether : they do not want to damage one of their main characters by having him/her turn into a villain. 

 

On rare occasions, they try their hand at it but only if : 

- the couple in which the adultery occurs does not contain two main characters, but rather one main and one supporting (and/or glorified extra);

- the cheating party is not the main character (preferably);

- either the cheating party or the cheated-on one was considered detestable even before the cheating (which turns the adultery either into a confirmation of the cheater's bad character or into a punishment for the cheated-on's awful personality);

- the cheating is "justified" or "understandable" (if the main character is the one doing the dirty deed);

- the cheating occurred in the long-forgotten past, is only recalled for anecdotal purposes  and/or was "harmless" (again, in cases where a main character is the culprit).

 

So mindful of their creatures' integrity are TBBT writers that every time they tackled the issue (through their main characters), they combined several "excuses". When Penny mentioned having cheated on a former boyfriend with his brother (The Vacation Solution), it was a mix of 1 and 5. And when Leonard kissed Alice while still in a relationship with Priya (The Good Guy Fluctuation), he hit the jackpot with a 1, 3, 4 and 5 combo. We can even throw a 2 in there, since the one who really cheated, i.e. had sex, was Priya.

 

(Friends only managed to get away with Ross "cheating" on Rachel by turning the whole thing into a bone of contention : were they or were they not on a break ? / Was it or was it not cheating ?, which is sort of like excuse #4)

 

If Leonard had done something "bad" on the boat, his character would be pretty much ruined for none of the usual alibis would apply. So if adultery is out, there are not many types of misbehaving for Leonard to have undertaken while on the boat... Aside from bragging perhaps ? Things he might have told his crewmates and Penny might get to hear about if/when she meets them ? 

 

They are now equals and Leonard is in a relationship for the first time in his life as is Penny, where the women he loves, loves him as equally as he does. So he is probably testing the boundaries, seeing what he can get away with even if it is sub-conciousley, I get the feeling the writers are going to test this new relationship and it's boundaries, and I have the feeling they are so strong now they can get through anything. Penny has now choosen Leonard and no one else, and Leonard knows the women he has been madly in love with since they first met loves him just as much, so a bit of testing the waters from the writers I think. And tbh from my point of view it is a nice change seeing Leonard not submissive, being assertive and not seeking approval from Penny, it brings a new dynamic to their relationship, keep's things interesting in a way, as their is no reason to break them up just for the sake of drama or storylines, they can get that out of Lenny without breaking them up, no way does anyone want a R and R scenario.

You are correct. It was not my intention to question the worth of Leonard's growth or his need to explore this new found confidence of his. Nor do I expect him to know how to navigate flawlessly those unknown waters of security. He is very much a man who had convinced himself nothing would ever go his way and, at last, it appears that everything actually is. So he is bound, as you say, to test the limits of this new and unforeseen configuration, a process which will lead him to make certain "mistakes". I understand and accept that. 

However, the type of "mistakes" the writers chose to have him make are oddly familiar. They could have had him do anything; they decided to have him do things vaguely reminiscent of Kurt and Co. While I admit it could be innocent, I still doubt it truly is. Just like I doubt the whole thing will have blown over by the end of 7.04 which will not be broadcast during November sweeps.

 

As I wrote, I do not think TPTB have either the inclination, the intention or the time to break Penny and Leonard up. They did it once, out of necessity (to allow for the other characters to catch up and for new storylines to develop), but this time has come and gone. Separating the Lenny at this point would be like tattooing one's own genitals with a biro : a lot of work, a lot of pain, and all that for what ? (Just in case you are wondering, yes, that is the only comparison I could come up with and, yes, I am somewhat ashamed  ). 

So I do not believe for a minute this is where this "lack of reciprocation on Leonard's part" storyline is going. But I do think it is going somewhere. Or rather some time... Like November, for example.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Chiara

[3ku11]

I believe cheating is definitely out. In sitcomland (I would not dare to comment about real life), adultery is "insta-douchebag" and there is little hope for any cheater ever to find redemption, which is why comedy writers try to stay away from the topic altogether : they do not want to damage one of their main characters by having him/her turn into a villain. 

 

On rare occasions, they try their hand at it but only if : 

- the couple in which the adultery occurs does not contain two main characters, but rather one main and one supporting (and/or glorified extra);

- the cheating party is not the main character (preferably);

- the cheating party was considered detestable even before the cheating;

- the cheating is "justified" or "understandable" (if the main character is the one doing the dirty deed);

- the cheating occurred in the long-forgotten past and is only recalled for anecdotal purposes (again, in cases where a main character is the culprit).

 

So mindful of their creatures' integrity are TBBT writers that every time they tackled the issue, they combined several "excuses". When Penny mentioned having cheated on a former boyfriend with his brother (The Vacation Solution), it was a mix of 1 and 5. And when Leonard kissed Alice while still in a relationship with Priya (The Good Guy Fluctuation), he hit the jackpot with a 1, 3, 4 and 5 combo. We can even throw a 2 in there, since the one who really cheated, i.e. had sex,  was Priya.

 

(Friends only managed to get away with Ross "cheating" on Rachel by turning the whole thing into a bone of contention : were they or were they not on a break ?, which is sort of like excuse #4)

 

So if adultery is out, there are not many types of misbehaving for Leonard to have undertaken while on the boat... Bragging perhaps ? Things he might have told his crewmates and which Penny might get to hear if/when she meets them ? 

 

You are correct. It was not my intention to question the worth of Leonard's growth or his need to explore this new found confidence of his. Nor do I expect him to know how to navigate flawlessly those unknown waters of security. He is very much a man who had convinced himself nothing would ever go his way and, at last, it appears that everything actually is. So he is bound, as you say, to test the limits of this new and unforeseen configuration, a process which will lead him to make certain "mistakes". I understand and accept that. 

However, the type of "mistakes" the writers chose to have him make are oddly familiar. They could have had him do anything; they decided to have him do things vaguely reminiscent of Kurt and Co. While I admit it could be innocent, I still doubt it truly is. Just like I doubt the whole thing will have blown over by the end of 7.04 which will not be broadcast during November sweeps.

 

As I wrote, I do not think TPTB have either the inclination, the intention or the time to break Penny and Leonard up. They did it once, out of necessity (to allow for the other characters to catch up and for new storylines to develop), but this time has come and gone. Separating the Lenny at this point would be like tattooing one's own genitals with a biro : a lot of work, a lot of pain, and all that for what ? (For the record, I have never even attempted to do such a thing). 

So I do not believe for a minute this is where this "lack of reciprocation on Leonard's part" storyline is going. But I do think it is going somewhere. Or rather some time... Like November, for example. 

Yeah I completly agree besides other then Penny's anecdote about sleeping with those two brothers, for the record I think she had a thing with both of the guys, but their never was any implied relationship between the two, I think she was making the point that it's best to come clean when your in bed when it comes to relationship issues, the thing with Penny though she seem's to always be repenting for her past actions, now that is much older and wiser she clearly regrets a lot of stuff she did, and she obviousley had a very colorful and adventorous past when it comes to her relationships. But I think she was 18-19 in her teen years around that time. In her adult life since the pilot, it has actually been the complete opposite the guys she had been dating have known to cheat on her, like Mike in 1x24 who blogged about their sex life, although the cheating wasen't during their relationship, he moved on half an hour after, and also Kurt cheated on Penny a few times. As for Leonard a part from Alice which to be fair at that point him and Priya were pratically over, he diddn't go through with it though, ironically Priya was one who did the cheating. 43 Penc when Penny was like "your the one I am with", clearly trying to validate Leonard's fears, he probably still doesen't understand why Penny is with him, in his head she can do so much better, which is ironical because Penny feel's the exact same way about Leonard, he could so much better in a lot of ways, maybe that's why they work.

 

A lot of their decisions in their relationships especially post Season 2 can be directly brought down to their relationship with their parents, Leonard dated strong, independent women who ironically who were a lot like his mother like Priya and Stephanie, due to his relationship with his mother. Penny really was the first one that superceded that, Penny is warm, affectionate, but also strong willed and self independent. Penny also dated guys due to her relationship with her father, the writers know Penny's dating history, and based on what her father has said she has dated a lot of loosers, most likely due to Penny's trust in people, which is one of her strengths, but at the same time it is one of her biggest flaws, she always gave trust to these guys who never earn't it in the first place, and ultimately mistreated her. This changed IMO since The Tangerine Factor, in 1x24 Penny was sick and tired of dating guy's just for a casual fling, or because of how many muscles they had or how much money they had, she wanted to date a guy who actually cared for her.

 

In fact this is the very reason she dated Leonard in the first place, dating those type's of guys was obviousley not working, so dating someone who has prooved to care for her, logically is the answer. But because Leonard and Penny were the complete opposite of their composites, and the make up of their identities, and also a completely different to who they usually date, they both had reasons why it did not work first time around. TBH I think things changed un 2x01 after Leonard Penny just compared every single guy to him, no guy challenged her intellectually like Leonard did. So the lack of reciprocation IMO could just be circumstancial, and is leading somewhere but I do not for once second thing it is going to cause a Lenny break up, like you said that time has come and gone. Leonard hanging up on Penny, Leonard not wanting Penny on the scavenger hunt knowing intellectually they are not equals, taking advantage of the situation to gain sex. This could be all the writers way of shaking things up, it also forces Leonard and Penny to keep working on their relationship which can only be a good thing.

Edited September 30, 2013 by 3ku11

[JonRS92]

The reunion was perfectly fine to me. Sweet and not overdone (Leonard was not in danger or anything). It was perfectly offbeat, like the couple itself. However...

 

I have just been thinking about this "Leonard not always reciprocating" bit and I agree completely. I had not managed ot nail it that succintly in my mind but that is it. Added to Nogravitasatall's idea that the relationship between Leonard and Penny is being "normalised" (with the latter demonstrating her level of commitment and the former no longer overthinking the whole thing), with which I also agree wholeheartedly, it really feels as if the writers are preparing for some fallout. Nothing overly damaging, but a possibly substantial event nonetheless. 

 

Penny's disaste for "hearts and flowers" is not merely the result of her tomboy-ish personality. It is, of course, but not just.

It also the product of bad experiences. Indeed, from what we know, she always was the "committed" one in her previous relationships. Now, I am firmly of the opinion that she had never really been in love before falling for Leonard (if anything, her ability to bounce back almost immediately after each of her past breakups was a testament to how shallow her true attachment to those other men was); however, she played the part of the "girl in love" pretty well to her audience of loser and moron boyfriends : lending them money when they needed it (The Financial Permeability), having loads of fun with them in unusual places (The Tangerine Factor), allowing them to take photographs (The Bath Item Gift Hypothesis), teaching them how to drink Champagne "phonily" (The Tangible Affection Proof), etc.

And, just as invariably as she used to pull her own weight in those relationships regardless of how irrelevant they truly were to her, the guys continuously would not : they used to take advantage, profit, exploit, lie and cheat. In short, they used not to reciprocate her attentions...

 

Now, I have no doubt Leonard needs to relax. In fact, I am quite certain his relationship with Penny would benefit (and, indeed, has benefited) greatly from him no longer looking over his shoulder, poor soul, in fear of some catastrophe capable of blowing everything to smithereens. However, the lack of reciprocation thing goes a bit further than that. 

 

The writers know the catalogue of idiots Penny dated before Leonard. Hell, they invented them. They know who they are, theirs ways, what they used to do and what they used not to do, and for six years, they depicted Dr Hofstadter as these men's antithesis. So now, for them to have Leonard display behaviours even vaguely similar to those guys' seems a tad foreshadow-y to me. 

If it were just Leonard having too much fun on the boat to pay attention to Penny's call, it would be absolutely fine.

If it were just Leonard not wanting Penny on his team for the scavenger hunt, it would be OK.

If it were just Leonard milking Penny's compassion for his own gain, it would be alright.

But it is all three, in quick succession. At this point, it is almost a Moscow rule : "Once is happenstance; twice is coincidence; three times, it's enemy action".

 

Now, it could be that 7.04, being the third strike and all that jazz, is the last we ever see of this pattern. Maybe dropping the Beverly, being the mother of all nuclear retaliations (kneel before this dreadful pun), will be the be-all and end-all of "The Hofstadter/Past Morons Similarity" storyline. It could definitely be so. But will it be ? Will TPTB really end such an interesting and novel plotline almost immediately after they introduced it ? And before November sweeps, of all times ? 

Colour me unconvinced (I believe that is a rather nauseating shade of puce). 

 

I ain't no Cassandra but me think there is something cooking. Nothing dreadful, mind you. The show has another four to five years to go (conservative yet realistic estimate) and the writers have way too much on their plate (the Lenny wedding to lead to, Shamy progression to organise, Raj's love life to create almost ex nihilo, the Hernadette to define further, the Hofstadter/Cooper living arrangements to settle, the guys' scientifc pursuits to broaden, Penny's career to launch, a variety of family members to introduce, Geek culture aspects to explore, jokes to disseminate and, above all, a suitable cameo to imagine for William Shatner...) to add a Lenny breakup/reconciliation combo into the mix so there is, I believe, absolutely no need to panic. But TPTB may have their eyes on a little explosion to keep the year's penultimate month interesting.

So this season's drama could be brought to us by Leonard who will have some 'splainin' to do.

 

There may be trouble ahead but while there's music and moonlight and love and romance...

 

 

Yeah I completly agree besides other then Penny's anecdote about sleeping with those two brothers, for the record I think she had a thing with both of the guys, but their never was any implied relationship between the two, I think she was making the point that it's best to come clean when your in bed when it comes to relationship issues, the thing with Penny though she seem's to always be repenting for her past actions, now that is much older and wiser she clearly regrets a lot of stuff she did, and she obviousley had a very colorful and adventorous past when it comes to her relationships. But I think she was 18-19 in her teen years around that time. In her adult life since the pilot, it has actually been the complete opposite the guys she had been dating have known to cheat on her, like Mike in 1x24 who blogged about their sex life, although the cheating wasen't during their relationship, he moved on half an hour after, and also Kurt cheated on Penny a few times. As for Leonard a part from Alice which to be fair at that point him and Priya were pratically over, he diddn't go through with it though, ironically Priya was one who did the cheating. 43 Penc when Penny was like "your the one I am with", clearly trying to validate Leonard's fears, he probably still doesen't understand why Penny is with him, in his head she can do so much better, which is ironical because Penny feel's the exact same way about Leonard, he could so much better in a lot of ways, maybe that's why they work.

 

A lot of their decisions in their relationships especially post Season 2 can be directly brought down to their relationship with their parents, Leonard dated strong, independent women who ironically who were a lot like his mother like Priya and Stephanie, due to his relationship with his mother. Penny really was the first one that superceded that, Penny is warm, affectionate, but also strong willed and self independent. Penny also dated guys due to her relationship with her father, the writers know Penny's dating history, and based on what her father has said she has dated a lot of loosers, most likely due to Penny's trust in people, which is one of her strengths, but at the same time it is one of her biggest flaws, she always gave trust to these guys who never earn't it in the first place, and ultimately mistreated her. This changed IMO since The Tangerine Factor, in 1x24 Penny was sick and tired of dating guy's just for a casual fling, or because of how many muscles they had or how much money they had, she wanted to date a guy who actually cared for her.

 

In fact this is the very reason she dated Leonard in the first place, dating those type's of guys was obviousley not working, so dating someone who has prooved to care for her, logically is the answer. But because Leonard and Penny were the complete opposite of their composites, and the make up of their identities, and also a completely different to who they usually date, they both had reasons why it did not work first time around. TBH I think things changed un 2x01 after Leonard Penny just compared every single guy to him, no guy challenged her intellectually like Leonard did. So the lack of reciprocation IMO could just be circumstancial, and is leading somewhere but I do not for once second thing it is going to cause a Lenny break up, like you said that time has come and gone. Leonard hanging up on Penny, Leonard not wanting Penny on the scavenger hunt knowing intellectually they are not equals, taking advantage of the situation to gain sex. This could be all the writers way of shaking things up, it also forces Leonard and Penny to keep working on their relationship which can only be a good thing.

 

I think I agree with most of what you both are saying.  If Leonard's behavior so far in season 7 is a pattern, and I kind of think it is, I think it might be a sign of a forthcoming over confidence.  I know that many viewers are happy to see a confident Leonard and so am I.  I think I have mentioned this in a previous post.  I like that his confidence has led him to quit questioning where their relationship is.  He is more confident of its stability and of her feelings for him.  That's all good.  I also like that Leonard is not afraid to have some fun and stick up for his own interests once and awhile.  Penny has said she likes when Leonard takes charge and is a little cocky.  However, where I start deviate from the popular opinion is when Leonard's confidence starts manifesting itself as not seeming to reciprocate Penny's new-found affections.  This is not me saying that Leonard's feelings for Penny have decreased.  I think what the writers might be building towards is an overconfidence in Leonard that may manifest itself as starting to take Penny for granted.  I am not saying that this is what is happening now, but I think that is where this could be headed. 

 

Also, if Penny's past boyfriends were jerks I think it pretty safe to assume that they did not reciprocate her feelings and just used her for her looks and for sex.  So when Leonard appears on the surface to act that way, no matter how little he does it (he's not a jerk.  We know he loves her for more than her looks or the sex) I don't know why people say it is confidence and a good thing.  IF he stops reciprocating Penny's little acts of affection I don't think it looks good for him.  It's not about confidence or being submissive, it is just about being nice and romantic with your girlfriend.  I know some of you say that Penny hates romance.  I say I think that is changing.  Giving Penny a locket was romantic and she loved it.  Coming home early to see her was romantic and she loved it.  I know I probably worded this whole section poorly so before I get yelled at, please forgive me.  It's been a long day and I am tired

 

Just as an FYI side note.  I have a hunch that when Penny finally proposes, Leonard is going to hesitate.  Don't ask me why, it is just a vibe I am getting.  I could be way off and the writers go pure romance.  But a tiny part of me thinks they are going to use it for some drama.

[3ku11]

I think I agree with most of what you both are saying.  If Leonard's behavior so far in season 7 is a pattern, and I kind of think it is, I think it might be a sign of a forthcoming over confidence.  I know that many viewers are happy to see a confident Leonard and so am I.  I think I have mentioned this in a previous post.  I like that his confidence has led him to quit questioning where their relationship is.  He is more confident of its stability and of her feelings for him.  That's all good.  I also like that Leonard is not afraid to have some fun and stick up for his own interests once and awhile.  Penny has said she likes when Leonard takes charge and is a little cocky.  However, where I start deviate from the popular opinion is when Leonard's confidence starts manifesting itself as not seeming to reciprocate Penny's new-found affections.  This is not me saying that Leonard's feelings for Penny have decreased.  I think what the writers might be building towards is an overconfidence in Leonard that may manifest itself as starting to take Penny for granted.  I am not saying that this is what is happening now, but I think that is where this could be headed. 

 

Also, if Penny's past boyfriends were jerks I think it pretty safe to assume that they did not reciprocate her feelings and just used her for her looks and for sex.  So when Leonard appears on the surface to act that way, no matter how little he does it (he's not a jerk.  We know he loves her for more than her looks or the sex) I don't know why people say it is confidence and a good thing.  IF he stops reciprocating Penny's little acts of affection I don't think it looks good for him.  It's not about confidence or being submissive, it is just about being nice and romantic with your girlfriend.  I know some of you say that Penny hates romance.  I say I think that is changing.  Giving Penny a locket was romantic and she loved it.  Coming home early to see her was romantic and she loved it.  I know I probably worded this whole section poorly so before I get yelled at, please forgive me.  It's been a long day and I am tired

 

Just as an FYI side note.  I have a hunch that when Penny finally proposes, Leonard is going to hesitate.  Don't ask me why, it is just a vibe I am getting.  I could be way off and the writers go pure romance.  But a tiny part of me thinks they are going to use it for some drama.

I said this before I think because of the expedition Leonard well return with a new found confidence, almost cocky and well test the boundaries of this new found love almost, where it is requitted love. For the record not yet anyway have I seen Leonard not reciprocate Penny's affections, he came back early because they finished the experiement early, so he wanted to surprise her that is romantic. And I do agree in the past Penny doesen't like Romance, but she loved that locket, and even go back to Season 3 she loved that snowflake Leonard gave her, so it is not the first time Leonard has been romantic with Penny. So having fun on the boat, not choosing Penny for the scavenger hunt, and monopolizing the situation to gain sex e.t.c. Maybe imply Leonard is starting to gain tendencies that her former other boyfriend's had on the surface, but it is more a manisfistation of Leonard's expedition, so you well see a more cocky Leonard and maybe being a tad more assertive, he may feel like a rock star and knowing Penny loves him as deeply as he loves her, he maybe trying to test the boundaries a bit. So the repercussions maybe that kinda like with Howard when he came back from space, Penny may bring Leonard down to earth and they could have an intervention, who knows Leonard may start dressing more like Angelo then Leonard I'm imagining Cool Shades, teared jeans, tats e.t.c. just kiddin but you catch my drift lol.

[gsxdoug]

Just as an FYI side note.  I have a hunch that when Penny finally proposes, Leonard is going to hesitate.  Don't ask me why, it is just a vibe I am getting.  I could be way off and the writers go pure romance.  But a tiny part of me thinks they are going to use it for some drama.

If so, it would more likely be because he would want to be sure she is certain, like if it comes during some crisis. And by crisis, I don't mean anything serious, just a crossroad in the relationship, or some external event that makes Penny question where her life is headed.

On the subjuect of how much time passes between Leonard's return and Sheldon/Amy bursting in on them, Penny says that the Chinese food is from the night before, so they had one night and most of the next day alone, at least.

[JonRS92]

I said this before I think because of the expedition Leonard well return with a new found confidence, almost cocky and well test the boundaries of this new found love almost, where it is requitted love. For the record not yet anyway have I seen Leonard not reciprocate Penny's affections, he came back early because they finished the experiement early, so he wanted to surprise her that is romantic. And I do agree in the past Penny doesen't like Romance, but she loved that locket, and even go back to Season 3 she loved that snowflake Leonard gave her, so it is not the first time Leonard has been romantic with Penny. So having fun on the boat, not choosing Penny for the scavenger hunt, and monopolizing the situation to gain sex e.t.c. Maybe imply Leonard is starting to gain tendencies that her former other boyfriend's had on the surface, but it is more a manisfistation of Leonard's expedition, so you well see a more cocky Leonard and maybe being a tad more assertive, he may feel like a rock star and knowing Penny loves him as deeply as he loves her, he maybe trying to test the boundaries a bit. So the repercussions maybe that kinda like with Howard when he came back from space, Penny may bring Leonard down to earth and they could have an intervention, who knows Leonard may start dressing more like Angelo then Leonard I'm imagining Cool Shades, teared jeans, tats e.t.c. just kiddin but you catch my drift lol.

 

I agree with this.  I think she is definitely going to cool him down a little

[3ku11]

If so, it would more likely be because he would want to be sure she is certain, like if it comes during some crisis. And by crisis, I don't mean anything serious, just a crossroad in the relationship, or some external event that makes Penny question where her life is headed.

On the subjuect of how much time passes between Leonard's return and Sheldon/Amy bursting in on them, Penny says that the Chinese food is from the night before, so they had one night and most of the next day alone, at least.

Penny may have said from the night before to put Sheldon off haha, but yeah I think Penny and Leonard had a day maybe half a day and that one night.

[Nogravitasatall]

Wrt the future:

I keep thinking "pendulum". But my weary heart doesn't really want to know. LOL. I just hope he becomes momentarily only a bit over confident, not a complete drop kick for an extended period.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Zhalen565]

Just a quick note, check facts before posting episode references1x24 doesn't exist, season one was only 17 episodes.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Zhalen565

[3ku11]

Just a quick note, check facts before posting episode references1x24 doesn't exist, season one was only 17 episodes.

Yeah true my bad haha guess most seasons are 24 episodes, but your right should of checked facts.