Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Zhalen565]

David Underhill is 2x11, by getting the episode order wrong you refute your points in the entire last paragraph. As it was post Mike, Leonard and then Eric, yet another tall, dumb guy "from the Charlie Brown cartoon".

[3ku11]

David Underhill is 2x11, by getting the episode order wrong you refute your points in the entire last paragraph. As it was post Mike, Leonard and then Eric, yet another tall, dumb guy "from the Charlie Brown cartoon".

I don't think it refutes my point I said it was Season One I think, so obviousley I was wrong, I got the chronological order of her relationship's wrong, my last paragraph I diddn't actually mean Penny revealed this in Season One, but just generally, should of been more clear but I'm going off my recollection here seeing it was like 7 years ago, I'm sorry if my fact's were a bit off.

[ArmyGirl]

Wow a lot has happen since I been out of the loop.  I guess that is what I get --- getting sick along with my son. 

 

Off to catch up.

[ArmyGirl]

I really feel the need to point this out, when Penny and Sheldon called Leonard he was not only drunk he was also extremely sleep deprived. Seriously it was 5:30 in the morning, and he had apparently been up all night. Also, what the hell were they expecting when they called him at 5:30 in the morning?!?!?!?

 

I asked this same question and was basically ignored. 

 

Every time I think of Penny going off on people for waking her up before 11 am and that she had to problem calling Leonard at 5:30 in the morning.  That call was just odd to me and it screamed plot device all over it.

[JonRS92]

While Penny did move on pretty quickly from Kurt, we got to bear in mind he was a jerk , he cheated her on a few time's I am guessing. I assume the reason she lived with him for four years, as they probably meet through social commonlarities, they both share the same interests, socially they both have the same peers. Just like Leonard hang's out with people like him eggheads, Penny hanged out with her friend's that were like her, good looking, sociable, outgoing e.t.c. Conversely Leonard hanged out with his friend's who were like him, eggheads, socially inept (not anti-social but lack of social skill's is more accuracte), intelliegent, interest's include World's of Warcraft gaming, laser tag e.t.c. I remember though the first guy Penny dated in Season 1 after Kurt, I am sure that was the 3rd or 4th episode in, I think that was when Leonard brought her mail over to her, not sure she was kissing him but they were involved with each other at that point. I get the feeling though Penny was naive especially early on when it came to guy's she were dating, they probably seemed amazing to begin with, but because the basis of most of those relationship's were physical, their was no depth built in those relationship's, even Penny admitted to this they were really casual and physical, the context of the relationships were exemplified by how sexually active she was in those relationships; With Mike the guy who blogged about their sex life, she did with him in Subways, Parks, and Restaruants, I don't know why Leonard reading the blog back to her is so funny lol. Difference with Leonard they were friend's first that is why she is more honest with Leonard and trust's him more then any guy she has ever been with, that and Leonard intellectually challenges her more then any other guy she had been with in the past, not that is hard considering the guy's she used to date haha. Society expect's you to do certain thing's when it comes to your career, love life, choices you make e.t.c. Penny most likely dated "gym type's", because they were her social equal, just like Leonard dated Priya because she was more his social equal. So while I agree their was complete reciprocation on both parties in the relationship's she is in, her ego more then her heart was damaged, as she lost money, respect e.t.c. (Like Mike who blogged about her sex life, and Kurt who woulden't give her money back). Penny felt more physically abused then emotionally, as she never got to the point where their was an emotional investment just a physical one, this was also the case with DU, that was a physical relationship too, I think Penny's deep seeded insecurities and intimacy issues is the big factor as to why most of her relationship's with guy's were mostly physical like you said Penny love's making scenes, a lot of yelling and drama was a big part of her relationship's, just ask Mike's Ipod This even mainfested it self when Leonard and Penny broke up in S3 in the bowling scene, when Penny usually break's with a guy, it's big, it is loud, it is dramatic, she make's a scene Penny love's it lol, but she never see's the guy again drink's some egg nog/vodka and moves on. One of the big reason's why she probably was considering breaking up with Leonard early on last season, she is used to the drama in her relationship's, compared to other relationship's she felt bored at time's, this was also after Leonard proposed, she was probably getting the same wobbles she was getting in S3, at that point too neither Leonard and Penny were working on their relationship, but then the Lab Scene brought a new spark in their relationship, and reminded Penny why she fell for Leonard in the first place ironically the Science in their relationship. Leonard and Penny's relationship is similar in some ways to Charlie and Alan from Taahm, just like you wonder how Charlie delt with things before Alan was in his life, same with Penny she obviousley had a ton of break up's in her life, every time in S1 she broke up with a guy Leonard was their for her, I even remember Howard said you got to be careful not to get into the friendzone, or you could end up becoming her gay friend lol. Who was their before to console Penny after a bad break up? Her Father? Her Mother? (I'm not disputing the fact her Mom and Dad hasen't been their for her in any of her breakup's, they are her parent's after all, but I am more refering to from her early 20's onwards) Doesen't sound like it, she was 21 when she moved to Pasadena, considering she lived with Kurt for four years, that mean's she lived with Kurt right after highschool, obviousley having these idealistic dreams of stardom, obviousley her Father shed some light on her past relationship's, I am guessing most of them back in Nebraska, and maybe Kurt was just part of that dream until she meet the guys, maybe that's also why she dated those "type" guy's espeically the first two season's, it all came back to her idealistic self-actulization, this was obviousley de-constructed in the Spoiler Alet Ep last season. That's my point Leonard was a huge source of support for her, he is the only guy she can fall back on, she probably thought sub-conciousley if they got involved and it diddn't end well and their was a high percentage of that occuring, she would lose him and that is something that scare's her more then actual emotional intimacy, that and they are neighbours it would just be awkward so Leonard is very different and the only constant guy in her life. The thing that to me has always been endearing about Penny, is she seem's perfect on the outside, she is gorgeous, street smart, outgoing, sociable, bright but on the inside she has flaws like anyone else, and her apperence is just hiding them. Penny even admitted this to Leonard I think in Season one, emphasised when DU was revealed to be married, once again Penny misjudged someone especially another guy, which says alot about her naivity but of course since Season 2 and her date with Leonard she has grown a lot smarter, and her tolerance for dumb guy's has decreased, not to mention her ability to judge the good one's from the bad ones. This is all changed in 1x17 The Tangerine Factor, Penny just broke up with Mike after blogging about their sex life, that was the point Penny got to her breaking point, she was sick of dating guy's for their looks and money, she was finnally ready for a real relationship with a guy who actually cares about her, which is really the heart of Lenny.

I agree with all of this except one small point. I do believe that Penny invested herself emotionally with all of her relationships. If she hadn't she wouldn't have been so upset when they failed. In the same vein I do think she was emotionally abused rather than physically. Physical seems to be all her relationships were, yes, but that's because she didn't know better. To her, she was emotionally invested even of we have the benefit of looking back and seeing all the problems.

I asked this same question and was basically ignored. Every time I think of Penny going off on people for waking her up before 11 am and that she had to problem calling Leonard at 5:30 in the morning. That call was just odd to me and it screamed plot device all over it.

It could be as simple as saying Penny probably didn't even think of the time difference and I doubt she would have known what time it was there. Sheldon could have told her but he was being slightly selfish in that he missed Leonard and wanted to talk to him. I don't think he was going to point out the time difference as he had gotten Penny to do what he wanted by calling. Edited October 2, 2013 by JonRS92

[3ku11]

I agree with all of this except one small point. I do believe that Penny invested herself emotionally with all of her relationships. If she hadn't she wouldn't have been so upset when they failed. In the same vein I do think she was emotionally abused rather than physically. Physical seems to be all her relationships were, yes, but that's because she didn't know better. To her, she was emotionally invested even of we have the benefit of looking back and seeing all the problems.

 

It could be as simple as saying Penny probably didn't even think of the time difference and I doubt she would have known what time it was there. Sheldon could have told her but he was being slightly selfish in that he missed Leonard and wanted to talk to him. I don't think he was going to point out the time difference as he had gotten Penny to do what he wanted by calling.

 

Oh yeah sure Penny emotionally invested in the relationship's, that's basically what I mean about how young, idealistic, and naive she was in the first two seasons especially. she was more invested emotionally from her point of view anyway, giving her trust to these guy's and hoping for the best, then these guy's obviousley mistreat her and let her down. She is more embarassed with her self when those relationship's ended, when the guy's eventually show their true colors, like Mike Blogging about their sex life, David Underhill being already married, Kurt cheating on her e.t.c. So she emotionally invested in terms of investing in the relationship's opposed to have deep feeling's for the guy's them self's as most of the relationship's were physical, so their was no emotional depth in the relationship's, even though Penny suffered emotionally every time their was a break up, mostly because of how dramatic most of the break up's were, this was emphasized in 1x17 in the finalie of S1, it came to a head when Penny broke up with the most recent guy, so she per usual emotionally invested and physically invested into the relationship, remember Penny said for once I wish I date someone who was nice, and actually cared about me. So she obviousley wanted a guy better then who she usually dated, but because of her insecurities and intimacy issues probably never felt she deserved a guy like Leonard, that was the reason they diddn't work out the first time, so she dated guy to limit the possiblity of an emotional attachment, unfortunately knowing Penny she say's the best in everyone, so she ultimately get's hurt anyway. Although I think the guy's she dated weren't the only one's at fault here, she choose to date these guy's after all haha, as their was complete recirpocation of/or lack of real feeling's from both partie's, so kinda meant emotionally her ego was hurt from loosing money, respect e.t.c. Sorry if I was rambling in that last paragraph it's getting late here lol.

[Chrismo]

I asked this same question and was basically ignored. 

 

Every time I think of Penny going off on people for waking her up before 11 am and that she had to problem calling Leonard at 5:30 in the morning.  That call was just odd to me and it screamed plot device all over it.

 

 

 

It could be as simple as saying Penny probably didn't even think of the time difference and I doubt she would have known what time it was there. Sheldon could have told her but he was being slightly selfish in that he missed Leonard and wanted to talk to him. I don't think he was going to point out the time difference as he had gotten Penny to do what he wanted by calling.

 

It was probably a combination of Penny not realizing the time and sick of playing chess with Sheldon. And I agree that Sheldon did realize the time.

[JonRS92]

Oh yeah sure Penny emotionally invested in the relationship's, that's basically what I mean about how young, idealistic, and naive she was in the first two seasons especially. she was more invested emotionally from her point of view anyway, giving her trust to these guy's and hoping for the best, then these guy's obviousley mistreat her and let her down. She is more embarassed with her self when those relationship's ended, when the guy's eventually show their true colors, like Mike Blogging about their sex life, David Underhill being already married, Kurt cheating on her e.t.c.

Agreed.

So she emotionally invested in terms of investing in the relationship's opposed to have deep feeling's for the guy's them self's as most of the relationship's were physical, so their was no emotional depth in the relationship's, even though Penny suffered emotionally every time their was a break up, mostly because of how dramatic most of the break up's were, this was emphasized in 1x17 in the finalie of S1, it came to a head when Penny broke up with the most recent guy, so she per usual emotionally invested and physically invested into the relationship, remember Penny said for once I wish I date someone who was nice, and actually cared about me. So she obviousley wanted a guy better then who she usually dated, but because of her insecurities and intimacy issues probably never felt she deserved a guy like Leonard, that was the reason they diddn't work out the first time, so she dated guy to limit the possiblity of an emotional attachment.

Here is where I differ with you slightly. I do think there was emotional depth albiet from Penny only. We as observers know it wasn't love, but she thought it was. I do think she cared deeply for every guy she dated (more than once anyway) even if all they wanted from her was sex. You are right that it wasn't real love, but it was love as she understood it at the time and because of this, I think her relationships were more than physical to her. I know this might not seem plausible because, as you say, all of her past relationships were physical rather than emotional ones. But physical was all Penny understood. Never having had a deeper relationship, I believe that from Penny's point of view, she felt she was all in and the guys were not reciprocating. That's why you see her in 1.17 questioning whether she only picks jerks or does she turn all the guys she dates into jerks. She just didn't understand. Whether or not she felt like she deserved a better guy, I don't really know. She sure seemed to wish for one anyway.

Unfortunately knowing Penny she say's the best in everyone, so she ultimately get's hurt anyway. Although I think the guy's she dated weren't the only one's at fault here, she choose to date these guy's after all haha, as their was complete recirpocation of/or lack of real feeling's from both partie's, so kinda meant emotionally her ego was hurt from loosing money, respect e.t.c. Sorry if I was rambling in that last paragraph it's getting late here lol.

Agreed on that last point about fault. She is at fault too for not learning the lesson soon enough. But she's hardly the first to not get that lesson soon enough.

[terriblewaitress]

Every time I think of Penny going off on people for waking her up before 11 am and that she had to problem calling Leonard at 5:30 in the morning.  That call was just odd to me and it screamed plot device all over it.

 

Really? I thought it just showed that she really wanted to talk to him, regardless of the time, and couldn't wait, and hoped that he wouldn't mind and understand that she missed him etc and just needs to hear his voice. 

[ArmyGirl]

Really? I thought it just showed that she really wanted to talk to him, regardless of the time, and couldn't wait, and hoped that he wouldn't mind and understand that she missed him etc and just needs to hear his voice. 

 

I am not saying Penny calling is a bad thing, it just didn't sit right for me.  As for as Penny knew Leonard was still working and would she really call him at that time is all I am saying.

[JonRS92]

I am not saying Penny calling is a bad thing, it just didn't sit right for me.  As for as Penny knew Leonard was still working and would she really call him at that time is all I am saying.

 

I don't get the impression that Penny even knew what time it was in the North Sea.

[eirwinrommel]

Really? I thought it just showed that she really wanted to talk to him, regardless of the time, and couldn't wait, and hoped that he wouldn't mind and understand that she missed him etc and just needs to hear his voice. 

 

I am not saying Penny calling is a bad thing, it just didn't sit right for me.  As for as Penny knew Leonard was still working and would she really call him at that time is all I am saying.

 

I don't get the impression that Penny even knew what time it was in the North Sea.

My impression is that Penny just wanted to talk to Leonard, and she didn't think to check the time. An Impulse thing. Sheldon knew what time it was (he didn't even have to look) but he didn't try to stop Penny from calling, so either he didn't care if he woke Leonard up, or Leonard has a habit of calling around that time because of the time difference. i.e. Leonard starts his day about that time and calls Penny when he gets up.

[JonRS92]

My impression is that Penny just wanted to talk to Leonard, and she didn't think to check the time. An Impulse thing. Sheldon knew what time it was (he didn't even have to look) but he didn't try to stop Penny from calling, so either he didn't care if he woke Leonard up, or Leonard has a habit of calling around that time because of the time difference. i.e. Leonard starts his day about that time and calls Penny when he gets up.

That's a good point. We don't know the call history. That could have been their time to call. I don't that impression though because the call seemed spontaneous. But we just don't know.

[Kasey]

My impression is that Penny just wanted to talk to Leonard, and she didn't think to check the time. An Impulse thing. Sheldon knew what time it was (he didn't even have to look) but he didn't try to stop Penny from calling, so either he didn't care if he woke Leonard up, or Leonard has a habit of calling around that time because of the time difference. i.e. Leonard starts his day about that time and calls Penny when he gets up.

 

I'm going to go with that Sheldon didn't really care what time it was at the North Sea because he wanted to talk to Leonard.  Penny, I believe didn't know and also didn't care.  I'm sure Leonard if it wasn't for the partying going on wouldn't have minded being woken up by Penny any time.  Sheldon - well that's a different story...

[gsxdoug]

My impression is that Penny just wanted to talk to Leonard, and she didn't think to check the time. An Impulse thing. Sheldon knew what time it was (he didn't even have to look) but he didn't try to stop Penny from calling, so either he didn't care if he woke Leonard up, or Leonard has a habit of calling around that time because of the time difference. i.e. Leonard starts his day about that time and calls Penny when he gets up.

Most likely he didn't care, Sheldon can be selfish and Penny was doing what he wanted by calling. Plus she'd get the blame, if any, cuz it was "her idea."

Edited October 2, 2013 by gsxdoug

[5Mississippis]

Off Topic --

 

Just read this upcoming spoiler from Today at www.today.com (I'm sorry -- I'm a total idiot, I don't know how to hyper-link):

 

In the episode set to air Nov. 7, Professor Proton requests Leonard's (Johnny Galecki) help on an experiment, enraging Sheldon in the process, according to the network. The theoretical physicist then tries to get revenge on his former childhood hero by trying to become friends with Proton's nemesis, Bill Nye the Science Guy, who will be starring as himself.

 

LOL! This sounds wonderful! First Stephen Hawking and then Professor Proton! The rise of Leonard Hofstadter and a reeling Sheldon! Cannot wait to see this! Love Bill Nye the Science Guy too! 

[Nogravitasatall]

Bill Nye. I heard him on a Bill Maher podcast - he seems quite hip. I feel for him now, remembering how Sheldon dealt with another science promoter (Dr Greene (?) in the bookstore). It will be funny watching Sheldon do something to involve himself in something of which he has previously been so contemptuous. Also I am curious to see if Proton and Penny have a more satisfying interaction the second time around. I was disappointed a little last time because they all were behaving a little juvenile and Proton was a bit dismissive and maybe a little sexist.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

Actually it will be interesting to see if they bring up Bill Nye's background at all since he started out as an engineer and we all know what Sheldon thinks of engineers.

[Kasey]

Actually it will be interesting to see if they bring up Bill Nye's background at all since he started out as an engineer and we all know what Sheldon thinks of engineers.

 

Oh No, he didn't go to MIT did he?  The horror...

Edited October 3, 2013 by Kasey

[3ku11]

Bill Nye. I heard him on a Bill Maher podcast - he seems quite hip. I feel for him now, remembering how Sheldon dealt with another science promoter (Dr Greene (?) in the bookstore). It will be funny watching Sheldon do something to involve himself in something of which he has previously been so contemptuous. Also I am curious to see if Proton and Penny have a more satisfying interaction the second time around. I was disappointed a little last time because they all were behaving a little juvenile and Proton was a bit dismissive and maybe a little sexist.

I actually thought it was really funny when Proton asked Leonard if that was your girlfriend, and Leonard was like "yeah", and Proton was like "Your the real genius" lol.

[Chiara]

I actually thought it was really funny when Proton asked Leonard if that was your girlfriend, and Leonard was like "yeah", and Proton was like "Your the real genius" lol.

That line was definitely fine. Nevertheless, compounded with "What do the two of you talk about ?", it became a bit... Off. It was nothing terrible but hopefully this time around will be more pleasant.

 

On a sidenote, 7.06 is titled The Romance Resonance. Considering Sheldon will be busy with his "breakthrough", I doubt said romance would involve the Shamy, though anything is admitedly possible.

So that leaves us with the Lenny, the Hernadette or Raj (and someone presumably). I wonder.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Chiara

[3ku11]

That line was definitely fine. Nevertheless, compounded with "What do the two of you talk about ?", it became a bit... Off. It was nothing terrible but hopefully this time around will be more pleasant.

 

On a sidenote, 7.06 is titled The Romance Resonance. Considering Sheldon will be busy with his "breakthrough", I doubt said romance would involve the Shamy, though anything is admitedly possible.

So that leaves us with the Lenny, the Hernadette or Raj (and someone presumably). I wonder.

True fair enough but it's an harmless enough observation, I mean Leonard is a Physicist and Penny is an actress/waitress so on the surface from a social convention stand point, it's a fair enough question, they don't share common values, but of course with growth come's a mutual understanding that has grown between Leonard and Penny.

[Nogravitasatall]

True fair enough but it's an harmless enough observation, I mean Leonard is a Physicist and Penny is an actress/waitress so on the surface from a social convention stand point, it's a fair enough question, they don't share common values, but of course with growth come's a mutual understanding that has grown between Leonard and Penny.

Hmm. I think he dissed Leonard's choice in women and Penny, specifically. It was a joke in the broader scheme of things but it could make one think Proton might be a tiny bit disinhibited, or rude. They had just met the guy and he's making such comments? Only a little niggle. The potato and the pacemaker gag was not Penny's brightest moment either, but everyone had regressed to 8 years old for that episode. This is why I'm looking forward to the call back. Maybe it will play differently.

[Disgusted]

 

In the episode set to air Nov. 7, Professor Proton requests Leonard's (Johnny Galecki) help on an experiment, enraging Sheldon in the process, according to the network. The theoretical physicist then tries to get revenge on his former childhood hero by trying to become friends with Proton's nemesis, Bill Nye the Science Guy, who will be starring as himself.

 

 

Sheldon: How’s this? Pleased to meet you, Dr Gablehouser. How fortunate for you that the University has chosen to hire you, despite the fact that you’ve done no original research in 25 years, and instead have written a series of popular books that reduce the great concepts of science to a series of anecdotes, each one dumbed down to accommodate the duration of an average bowel movement. Mahalo.

Leonard: Mahalo’s a nice touch.

 

Leonard (to Sheldon): Here comes our new boss, be polite.

Gablehouser: Hi fellas, Eric Gablehouser.

Howard: Howard Wolowitz.

Gablehouser: Howard, nice to meet you, and you are?

Sheldon: An actual real scientist. (To Leonard) How was that?

 

 

 

Well, Sheldon, You've come a long way baby..........

 

Perhaps Sheldon and Bill Nye can share a bowel movement, per the Friendship algorithm.

 

P.S. 5:30 AM North Sea time is 9:30 PM California time.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Disgusted

[SRAM]

Hmm. I think he dissed Leonard's choice in women and Penny, specifically. It was a joke in the broader scheme of things but it could make one think Proton might be a tiny bit disinhibited, or rude. They had just met the guy and he's making such comments? Only a little niggle. The potato and the pacemaker gag was not Penny's brightest moment either, but everyone had regressed to 8 years old for that episode. This is why I'm looking forward to the call back. Maybe it will play differently.

I glad to hear that I wasn't the only person that thought Penny's character was a little off that episode, she did seem a little immature that episode. I think it was a little more obvious with Penny because the guys regress every so often in the show, when they get excited (remember when they got the Star Trek transporters), so it is not so obvious with them. So I think you are right, the writers probably told the actors to act more like 8 year holds for that episode.