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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


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I don't know. Penny actually asked to be on a team with him and he suggested the mix things up. A logical conclusion is he didn't want to team with her. Why wouldn't you want to be with your girlfriend? In regards to Bernie has the group done anything competitive before. Her being bossy and loud has happened in the past. I think more the point with that was it really hit home to Leonard that he should have teamed with Penny when asked.

maybe you're right but when i play games i usually don't team with my gf .

actually i never gave it a taught until now ! LoL

it's not a big deal in reality but because tbbt is a comedy show they just wanted to make something funny.

about bernie i said she wasn't that competitive i didn't say anything about her being load.

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So true Tensor.   The most consistent motif the writers have used with Penny is her insecurity about her intelligence and judgement. It pops up constantly in several episodes a season, starting with

Bullshit. My wife and I have OUR money. If money is budgeted for her to get clothes or for me to get clothes, neither one of us is giving the other money for clothes, we are using OUR money to get clo

OK, I went and re-watched the show tonight. I was looking at how Leonard and Penny reacted and it became obvious it was a no-win for Leonard. He was obviously sticking his foot in his mouth while tryi

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To add to Chrismo's points (all of which are very valid), Leonard confirmed he had tried not to have Penny on his team during one of his very eventful car rides with Bernadette : when he asked Bernadette whether she thought Penny was mad at him, Mrs Wolowitz asked back "Because you're in the right lane behind a bus and won't go around it ? I'm sure she finds it charming." to which Leonard replied  "No. Because I didn't want her on my team."

 

So we have to take him at his word. He could have said "Because she thinks/believes/is under the impression that I did not want her on my team"; instead, he stated unequivocally he had not wanted her to be his partner in the scavenger hunt. Now we have to wonder why.

While the "mixing things up" hypothesis could have been somewhat convincing in any other context, I think we have to assume that Leonard, like the others, thought Penny would be a liability, in spite of her ability to use the word correctly and in a sentence.

 

 

It does no mean Leonard is a blackhearted villain. It just means he is a bit blind and clumsy as far as his girlfriend's "triggers" are concerned. Will that be addressed at some point this season ? Could be...

As for his desire to apologise to Penny for having hurt her feelings, I do not think it makes him weak in any way, shape or form. Actually, I would be tempted to believe it is very respectable and brave to strive not to wound anybody, especially loved ones. Leonard is a good man. 

 

Leonard like everyone else wanted to win and he didn't think he could with Penny on his team (tho they were all wrong).  I don't see this as wrong or a bad thing because if Penny was still interacting with her old friends and they decided to play some type of sport I don't see Penny wanting Leonard on her team due to her wanting to win.  Leonard isn't the most athletic person out there.

 

I agree it doesn't make Leonard a bad person for wanting to win and I loved that he realize and felt bad for hurting Penny's feelings and wanted to make it right with her.

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 if Penny was still interacting with her old friends and they decided to play some type of sport I don't see Penny wanting Leonard on her team due to her wanting to win.  

You think ? I believe Penny would have had him on her team. She might then have pulled a Barracuda Bernadette on his tushie but she would have picked him. Come on, who would not pick him ? He out-cutes baby pandas ;)

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You think ? I believe Penny would have had him on her team. She might then have pulled a Barracuda Bernadette on his tushie but she would have picked him. Come on, who would not pick him ? He out-cutes baby pandas ;)

 

 Come on Penny loves to win just as much as everyone else and there is nothing wrong in my opinion (I do believe she would react in the same manner as Leonard once it hit her that his feelings were hurt).  As for Leonard being as cute as a baby panda I agree.

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My take: Leonard thought of the mission first and was not thinking couples. It would go, "what's the optimal way to solve this immediate exciting and familiar type of problem?" With a bit of adrenaline. Very tactical thinking, and he was also all caught up in nostalgia and ego. Then it hit. "Um, hang on, what have I just done?". Hence the backtracking and guilt. All part of the consequences of being in a new phase of their relationship. I expect they'll get over it, because he saw what he did and will learn.

Turning it around for, say football, might have Penny doing the same thing, but for some reason I'd imagine at this stage she'd be more switched on to Leonard's emotional needs and she'd make a plan that would accommodate him at the outset. I don't see them ever being like Monica and Chandler. I don't know why but right now I feel maybe Penny is more in than Leonard. Maybe that's from where they go to in the next show. Overthinking here.

Excellent episode.

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Leonard like everyone else wanted to win and he didn't think he could with Penny on his team (tho they were all wrong). I don't see this as wrong or a bad thing because if Penny was still interacting with her old friends and they decided to play some type of sport I don't see Penny wanting Leonard on her team due to her wanting to win. Leonard isn't the most athletic person out there. I agree it doesn't make Leonard a bad person for wanting to win and I loved that he realize and felt bad for hurting Penny's feelings and wanted to make it right with her.
exactly ! very good example it's just a game after all ! he just wanted to team with others to have better chance to win the game. but he screw it up when start apologize penny while she was ignoring him . he really deserve what bernie called him lol in the valentine episodes he was confident but now again he is kind of season one leonard who just scares from telling what is in his mind! and there is a different between being kind and being insecure. he is so insecure that makes him to apologize immediately even if he is right. i remember in season 3 when they had problem about believing in magic ... at the end because he scared from losing penny he apologized and he knew that he was right... in this episode i've seen no different between this leonard and season 3 leonard they both are insecure. if leonard thinks that penny is the one he should be more brave and not think about losing penny . or he can be nervous the rest of his life . Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4 Edited by arash

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 Come on Penny loves to win just as much as everyone else and there is nothing wrong in my opinion (I do believe she would react in the same manner as Leonard once it hit her that his feelings were hurt).  As for Leonard being as cute as a baby panda I agree.

Actually, I just thought back and realised Penny had at least once accepted to be on Leonard's team for a physical/athletic challenge. In The Cushion Saturation, she agreed to join the guys' (and Leslie's) paintball team knowing they were all pretty hopeless at anything that makes such a team successful (shooting and running come to mind). 

Now admittedly, Penny is not passionate about paintball but, then again, neither can be Leonard about scavenger hunts since he had not been involved in one for years before Raj's suggestion. 

 

So, even though Penny is as competitive as Leonard and would probably have preferred to be on a "good" paintball team (if she had given it any thought at all), she stil showed up and agreed to do most, if not all, of the work while the others watched from the outskirts. Until Sheldon chose to take his revenge of course ;)

 

I believe Nogravitasatall hit the nail on the head. Leonard got caught up in the moment and, at soon as he realised what he had done/said (and understood Penny had caught him red-handed), he backtracked, genuinely sorry he had hurt her feelings and aware that a silly scavenger hunt was not worth sidelining his girlfriend over.

Edited by Chiara
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exactly ! very good example

it's just a game after all ! he just wanted to team with others to have better chance to win the game.

but he screw it up when start apologize penny while she was ignoring him .

He did not screw it up. Apologizing for being wrong makes him a better MAN.

 

he rally deserve what bernie called him lol in the valentine episodes he was confident

Yeah, and in the Valentine's day episode, except for one line, he told Penny everything in PRIVATE, not in front of everyone else.

 

but now again he is kind of season one leonard who just scares from telling what is in his mind!and there is a different between being kind and being insecure. he is so insecure that makes him to apologize immediately even if he is right.

That's just it, Leonard wanting to win is not wrong. He was wrong because he is Penny's boyfriend, and his not wanting to be with her, during the hunt, embarrassed her in front of the group. I'm a guy and I think that is wrong, you don't embarrass your girlfriend in front of others. Apologizing because he thought he was wrong does not make him insecure. It makes him rather special that he has enough self-worth to realize apologizing for what he thought he did wrong does not diminish him.

 

i remember in season 3 when they had problem about believing in magic ... at the end because he scared from losing penny he apologized and he knew that he was right...

Got news for you. Originally, he was wrong there, and it has nothing to do with confidence. It wasn't about the psychic, it was the fact that Penny didn't want to tell him about the psychic, she asked him not to laugh at her if she did tell him about the psychic, and THEN HE LAUGHED AT HER, in front of others, when she told him. Embarrassing your girlfriend in front of others is just wrong. One of the Penny/Leonard problems is that they BOTH have a problem with embarrassing each other in public. It is never intentional, but it does happen. Apologizing for it, or explaining what happen does not make either of them insecure.

 

in this episode i've seen no different between this leonard and season 3 leonard they both are insecure. if leonard thinks that penny is the one he should be more brave and not think about losing penny . or he can be nervous the rest of his life

There's a bit difference. In season three, even after they got passed Leonard's original mistake, Leonard knew he was right and he caved, he did not apologize. He agreed to go see Penny psychic, but Penny refused to read the book debunking psychics, and he let it go. Here, Penny didn't demand anything from Leonard, Leonard knew he had hurt her feelings, and was simply trying to fix it. I have no idea how this makes him a pussy.

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Leonard did screw up when he didn't immediately want to be with Penny, and when he realized it, he tried to say he was sorry.  If you watch the episode, Leonard, really didn't have any fun, because of that and the way Bernie was acting.  But Penny was just mad at him, that is all, what was nice was there was no real concern that this little thing would break them up, and Leonard knew this, he just wanted to fix his screw up and he still is not good at handling Penny when she is mad, no one is.

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he just wanted to fix his screw up and he still is not good at handling Penny when she is mad, no one is.

I wonder if this is something that will/needs to be addressed this season.

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Leonard did screw up when he didn't immediately want to be with Penny, and when he realized it, he tried to say he was sorry.  If you watch the episode, Leonard, really didn't have any fun, because of that and the way Bernie was acting.  But Penny was just mad at him, that is all, what was nice was there was no real concern that this little thing would break them up, and Leonard knew this, he just wanted to fix his screw up and he still is not good at handling Penny when she is mad, no one is.

Actually I didn't think Penny was really mad. More of Leonard's problem was really Bernadette.

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I wonder if this is something that will/needs to be addressed this season.

 

I was thinking the same thing when I wrote that.  In the Valentine episode, she was mad at the end, in the restaurant and they were fighting.  When they went to her apartment, she wasn't mad anymore, she was aggravated with herself, so then he could talk to her.  When she gets mad, there seems to be no talking to her, so if he could somehow break through to her then, their relationship would sail on smoother waters, for sure.

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He did not screw it up. Apologizing for being wrong makes him a better MAN. Yeah, and in the Valentine's day episode, except for one line, he told Penny everything in PRIVATE, not in front of everyone else. That's just it, Leonard wanting to win is not wrong. He was wrong because he is Penny's boyfriend, and his not wanting to be with her, during the hunt, embarrassed her in front of the group. I'm a guy and I think that is wrong, you don't embarrass your girlfriend in front of others. Apologizing because he thought he was wrong does not make him insecure. It makes him rather special that he has enough self-worth to realize apologizing for what he thought he did wrong does not diminish him. Got news for you. Originally, he was wrong there, and it has nothing to do with confidence. It wasn't about the psychic, it was the fact that Penny didn't want to tell him about the psychic, she asked him not to laugh at her if she did tell him about the psychic, and THEN HE LAUGHED AT HER, in front of others, when she told him. Embarrassing your girlfriend in front of others is just wrong. One of the Penny/Leonard problems is that they BOTH have a problem with embarrassing each other in public. It is never intentional, but it does happen. Apologizing for it, or explaining what happen does not make either of them insecure. There's a bit difference. In season three, even after they got passed Leonard's original mistake, Leonard knew he was right and he caved, he did not apologize. He agreed to go see Penny psychic, but Penny refused to read the book debunking psychics, and he let it go. Here, Penny didn't demand anything from Leonard, Leonard knew he had hurt her feelings, and was simply trying to fix it. I have no idea how this makes him a pussy.
thank u for responding my point is that when someone is wrong he/she should apologize .and i don't think leonard was wrong at all. in season three again when howard was saying that bernie is not a girl he always wanted penny said (i can't remember exactly) something about leonard which was related to Leonard's body in front of others. that was way worse than what leonard said in this episode. don't you think? but leonard just passed it! but when leonard said that (even indirectly) if he team up with others his chance to win the game is more (in fact he didn't say these things . these are what we can get from his words) he made a very big mistake!! what all this means? he forgives penny so easy and when he do a little mistake he immediately scares losing her and apologize?! some may say he is so kind but i don't think so. he is still so insecure. about what you said that he is more confident when he is alone with penny i think your right he is better when he is alone with penny but she says her words in front of others if he is confident he should answer them at the moment like Valentine episode. Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4 Edited by arash

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thank u for responding my point is that when someone is wrong he/she should apologize .and i don't think leonard was wrong at all.

You don't think that embarrassing your girlfriend in public is wrong? Wow.

 

in season three again when howard was saying that bernie is not a girl he always wanted penny said (i can't remember exactly) something about leonard which was related to Leonard's body in front of others. that was way worse than what leonard said in this episode. don't you think? but leonard just passed it! but when leonard said that (even indirectly) if he team up with others his chance to win the game is more he made a very big mistake!!

He did make a mistake. It's not a question of what he said, the bottom line is he embarrassed his girlfriend in public, he realized that was wrong and he apologized for it. You seem to equate apologizing with somehow being weak or insecure. Owning up to a mistake and wanting to fix it, is something insecure people don't do.

That example you provided has nothing to do with the current situation between Penny and Leonard. It may have been in season three, but not now. Yes, Penny was wrong, and she didn't apologize. And Leonard didn't let it pass, he spoke up about it. As everyone else was making a comment, he kept saying "You, know, I'm right here." That Penny didn't apologize speaks less well of where she was at that point in time. If you want insecure, look at "The Beta Test Initiation". Penny tells him not to apologize, and yet, he still does.

 

what all this means? he forgives penny so easy and when he do a little mistake he immediately scares losing her and apologize?!

How exactly does apologizing for a mistake makes him scared of losing Penny? He never says that, just that he was wrong to do it the way he did.

 

some may say he is so kind but i don't think so. he is still so insecure.

And how exactly is assuming that she'll let him stay in her apartment after not wanting him to stay a few months earlier an example of insecurity? How is hanging up on her during a overseas call indicate insecurity? And how is leaving for four months an example of insecurity? I just don't see where he's insecure.

 

about what you said that he is more confident when he is alone with penny i think your right he is better when he is alone with penny but she says her words in front of others if he is confident he should answer them at the moment like Valentine episode.

So, embarrassing your partner after they do it to you is somehow more confident? That is usually a sign of insecurity. It takes a maturity and confidence to be able to wait until there is no one around, before fighting with your significant other.

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You don't think that embarrassing your girlfriend in public is wrong? Wow. He did make a mistake. It's not a question of what he said, the bottom line is he embarrassed his girlfriend in public, he realized that was wrong and he apologized for it. You seem to equate apologizing with somehow being weak or insecure. Owning up to a mistake and wanting to fix it, is something insecure people don't do. That example you provided has nothing to do with the current situation between Penny and Leonard. It may have been in season three, but not now. Yes, Penny was wrong, and she didn't apologize. And Leonard didn't let it pass, he spoke up about it. As everyone else was making a comment, he kept saying "You, know, I'm right here." That Penny didn't apologize speaks less well of where she was at that point in time. If you want insecure, look at "The Beta Test Initiation". Penny tells him not to apologize, and yet, he still does. How exactly does apologizing for a mistake makes him scared of losing Penny? He never says that, just that he was wrong to do it the way he did. And how exactly is assuming that she'll let him stay in her apartment after not wanting him to stay a few months earlier an example of insecurity? How is hanging up on her during a overseas call indicate insecurity? And how is leaving for four months an example of insecurity? I just don't see where he's insecure. So, embarrassing your partner after they do it to you is somehow more confident? That is usually a sign of insecurity. It takes a maturity and confidence to be able to wait until there is no one around, before fighting with your significant other.
when did i say embarrassing your gf in public is not wrong!! it can't be more wrong!!! you think what leonard said caused public embarrassing for penny?!!! wow you're making a big deal of it!!! i don't care what was in his mind but what he said wasn't bad and mistake! public embarrassing is hugeeee mistake and if that was public embarrassing then we all make at least one of them each day !!! come on man if he wanted to fix it what leonard said about i'm good with couples after Penney's comment was enough! he apologized once in comic book store and god knows how many texts he'd sent her. really? isn't that being insecure? and my example was really related to this. penny didn't apologize because it didn't worth to apologize (as i think) because she is not insecure!!! but leonard is!!! and apologizing her doesn't make him scared of losing her if it's at its time ! he just apologize a lot and 90 percent of them are not needed!! that makes me start to think he is insecure! how many times did penny apologize leonard? compare it you'll get what i'm saying! Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4 Edited by arash

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when did i say embarrassing your gf in public is not wrong!! it can't be more wrong!!! you think what leonard said caused public embarrassing for penny?!!! wow you're making a big deal of it!!! i don't care what was in his mind but what he said wasn't bad and mistake! public embarrassing is hugeeee mistake and if that was public embarrassing then we all make at least one of them each day !!! come on man if he wanted to fix it what leonard said about i'm good with couples after Penney's comment was enough!he apologized once in comic book store and god knows how many texts he'd sent her. really? isn't that being insecure?and my example was really related to this. penny didn't apologize because it didn't worth to apologize (as i think) because she is not insecure!!! but leonard is!!! and apologizing her doesn't make him scared of losing her if it's at its time ! he just apologize a lot and 90 percent of them are not needed!! that makes me start to think he is insecure! how many times did penny apologize leonard? compare it you'll get what i'm saying! Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4

I for one didn't think you meant public embarrassment wasn't wrong. I thought you meant wanting to win wasn't wrong and I still disagree. If your desire to win has reached a point where you can insult your girlfriend in public or in private then you need to take a step back and reevaluate things. This game should have been about the fun and not just winning. Look at how Amy and Howard handled everything. They had fun. No one else did. I get that Leonard made a snap decision and that he quickly realized that he was wrong. Good for him because he was wrong. He hurt his girlfriends feelings because he wanted to win. Not cool. He handled everything after that about as well as he could in my opinion.

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I like that it showed Penny figured out at least three of the puzzles (comic book store, Rolling Stones, and Sheldon's spot), and Leonard actually was a huge step behind Sheldon.   I understand why Leonard felt bad for what he said to Penny, it was wrong, but I hope they are not making him the milk-toast he has been in the past.

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Turning it around for, say football, might have Penny doing the same thing, but for some reason I'd imagine at this stage she'd be more switched on to Leonard's emotional needs and she'd make a plan that would accommodate him at the outset.

And she'd kick anybody's ass who touched him!

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The whole point of this scavenger hunt was to bring out the best and the worst in all the characters. Just read the synoposis and you get what I mean, Raj designed the whole thing to bring the best and worst of of everyone, kinda selfish on Raj's part haha, but he was funny so he got away with it. I think Penny and Leonard just got carried away and got lost in winning the game, their competitive streak just came out, and it was projected in the wrong way. So comment's here that Leonard has lost his backbone really confuses me, I saw no traits or tendancies from Season 5 at all, more Season 1 to me he wasen't degressing to old way's, he was more over thinking thing's as he did in Season 1, when Penny seemed happy about Leonard and Leslie. Leonard is nortorious for over analyzing and over thinking thing's. I think when Leonard stop's caring how his decisions and choices effect Penny is when you really need to worry, Leonard worrying he hurt Penny's feeling's almost reminded me of 3x06 when Penny had some her friend's around to watch football, and diddn't invite Leonard due to thinking it woulden't be his kind of thing. Leonard has always been concious of Penny in any situation he is in, so I guess Leonard worrying he hurt her feeling's is no different to everytime he has reacted since Season One. I think Leonard now is a balance between first three season's, and a cross between season 4, 5, 6, and now 7. His expedition obviousley have some new found confidence in his career, so it could be physically manisfesting it self. Beside's couple's bicker all the time, IMO this does not mean the writer's are degressing all the progress they made last year, it was just a plot device, I feel Leonard and Penny are so strong right now, they just like last year can say anything they want to each other at the of the day, they will at some point talk through their issues honestly with trust, like the VD ep last year. Besides I think in 7.04 Leonard and Penny are cuddling on the couch, the writer's have said Leonard and Penny are end game, but they won't be doing a proposal any time soon, as their is still a lot of growing to be done between Leonard and Penny, and a proposal is a massive change for the show, and they need to be prepared for it. 

Edited by 3ku11
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This is what I hoped. Bev in the bedroom might be a setback. But we will see.

Yeah, but thats from him messing with her, not someone else messing with him.

I'd love to see Penny go junior rodeo on somebody for Leonard's sake.

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Yeah, but thats from him messing with her, not someone else messing with him.

I'd love to see Penny go junior rodeo on somebody for Leonard's sake.

Me too I would love an episode this season, where I don't know someone bullies Leonard, or maybe someone at the university. And she goes all Nebraska on their ass haha.

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Actually, I just thought back and realised Penny had at least once accepted to be on Leonard's team for a physical/athletic challenge. In The Cushion Saturation, she agreed to join the guys' (and Leslie's) paintball team knowing they were all pretty hopeless at anything that makes such a team successful (shooting and running come to mind). 

Now admittedly, Penny is not passionate about paintball but, then again, neither can be Leonard about scavenger hunts since he had not been involved in one for years before Raj's suggestion. 

From The Cushion Saturation,

...

Leonard: Okay, first of all, Penny, thank you for coming.

Penny: Thanks for the shoes.

Leonard: Penny is an amazing shot. I think we have a real chance to win this week...

She was differently motivated then. Heheheheh. :)

Not sure what my point is, but it was funny. And I think she had already gotten her shoes. LOL.

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From The Cushion Saturation,

...

Leonard: Okay, first of all, Penny, thank you for coming.

Penny: Thanks for the shoes.

Leonard: Penny is an amazing shot. I think we have a real chance to win this week...

She was differently motivated then. Heheheheh. :)

Not sure what my point is, but it was funny. And I think she had already gotten her shoes. LOL.

Another scene from The Cushion Saturation I thought it was funny when Sheldon shot her...

 

Penny: "What the hell", and Penny shot Sheldon back

Leonard: "Penny Sheldon's right your eliminated", so he proceeds to shoot Sheldon to defend Penny's honour. It was short and sweet but I thought it was nice Leonard would defend Penny like that without even thinking about it :).

Edited by 3ku11
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From The Cushion Saturation,

...

Leonard: Okay, first of all, Penny, thank you for coming.

Penny: Thanks for the shoes.

Leonard: Penny is an amazing shot. I think we have a real chance to win this week...

She was differently motivated then. Heheheheh. :)

Not sure what my point is, but it was funny. And I think she had already gotten her shoes. LOL.

I think the point here is that Penny didn't pick a team to be competitive. She got paid.

I would suggest a couple of other reasons for Leonard not wanting to be on Penny's team. Maybe he didn't want to get distracted by his girlfriend (i.e. want to have sex or generally fool around. Penny is known for having sex in unusual places. Leonard might not be there yet.). Maybe he wasn't prepared to deal with Penny and a logic problem. Not that he thought she was stupid, but just fearing the situation would be fraught with potential issues. My take is that Penny was over sensitive to Leonard suggesting not couples and ditched him for Sheldon pretty damn fast, who she thought would be the best partner to win. Both of them are competitive, and that could be a problem when they try to work together. Unless it was clear that everyone should just have fun, then I would NOT have wanted my girlfriend, no matter how smart. Penny seemed to be almost looking for a reason to team up with Sheldon, to win.

We often wonder why Penny and Leonard are so bonded. I think we got a good look. They share a number of characteristics, particularly competiveness. The whole scene with Gretchen getting proposed to in the restaurant in the VD episode is a fne case study of Penny being competitive. In her mind, Gretchen won. Does Penny realize that she's actually won, as Leonard is as faithful as one could hope, while Gretchen's fiancee cheated on Penny to get with Gretchen. I often think that Penny still insufficiently respects her good fortune in being with Leonard. Leonard may be a bit tone deaf in relationship situations, such as this most recent episode, but that us a minor flaw. It looked to me like Penny was almost spoiling for a fight. Did she suggest couples first? Did she jump on Bernadette's idea right away? Did she state that she preferred couples after Leoanrd suggested names out of a hat. No. She took his hesitation as a slight against her intelligence, then immediately picked the proported smartest guy in the room. One could even imagine she manipulated the situation so as to abandon Leonard.

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