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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

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Two things.

1. She was asking SHELDON!!! That's like dropping your kids off at Neverland Ranch and ignoring the sign saying 'You must be this tall to ride Michael'.

2. That was approximately FIVE YEARS AGO. Since then they've been in a relationship, she's dumped him, they've been friends, he's had other relationships and they're back together and have been for over a year. IF he was going to drop her for any frivolous reason he would have by now. In fact she was thinking of dumping him again because he wasn't exciting enough. While it's true Leonard's not great in relationships, compared to Penny he's the poster boy.

I think ever since the lab scene Penny and Leonard found a new spark, that lab scene is the nucleus of what makes them work a balance of Science (Leonard) and Romance (Penny). Your right if Leonard was going to dump Penny he would of done it by now, vice versa for Penny, besides Penny was thinking of dumping Leonard because she was confused about her feelings for Leonard, and where their relationship was going, at that point I think it was right after Leonard proposing, so she probably felt like she reverted back to Season 3. With Penny she has always had issues articulating her emotions, I think she always did love Leonard just lacked the required depth to self actulize them in context, the argument with Leonard feeling like he is not good enough for Penny reared its ugly head again, and what came out was Penny admitting not only her true feelings but she choose him, she diddn't settle for him. Everyone has differing opinons, but personally I think they are in a great place.

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Two things.

1. She was asking SHELDON!!! That's like dropping your kids off at Neverland Ranch and ignoring the sign saying 'You must be this tall to ride Michael'.

2. That was approximately FIVE YEARS AGO. Since then they've been in a relationship, she's dumped him, they've been friends, he's had other relationships and they're back together and have been for over a year. IF he was going to drop her for any frivolous reason he would have by now. In fact she was thinking of dumping him again because he wasn't exciting enough. While it's true Leonard's not great in relationships, compared to Penny he's the poster boy.

 

Well that was my attempt to explain the Big Question surrounding L/P, why is she still commitment phobic? Its the only answer I have found in canon.

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Well that was my attempt to explain the Big Question surrounding L/P, why is she still commitment phobic? Its the only answer I have found in canon.

But is she though she has been in the past but since they "I love you" she has made tremendous progress, she has been completly unconditonly committed to Leonard, apart from the Valentines Day ep, which actually I think highlighted the progress in Lenny. In the past Leonard would of let Penny get away with that, wouldent have the courage to bring her up on it, but he made it clear that she cannot act like that anymore, Penny revealed she was scared of marrage, I think it was a great moment because Leonard and Penny discussed their insecurites honestly, it is the first time I ever saw them start to trust each other. You obviousley saw her insecurites coming to the surface, even feelings she never thought she had, she is scared of loosing Leonard. So she always pushed Leonard away, thats the answer I think lol well I think so anyway.

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I would hate if they play Ross and Rachel games with them as they run the show on.

IF she has been honest with Leonard there is no reason (that is not sinister) for her to avoid throwing the switch from "resist" to "attract". I'm concerned that the mooted 10 year plan might make the show raise more obstacles. They need to take another creative axe to the show and bust up the presumption that these two have to be continually struggling with each other.

I hope that's what 6.24 did, in that last scene at the airport. That committed hug. Erasing the past.

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 Just WHAT is she afraid she's going to loose if she marries Leonard? Her 'acting career', that was always a longshot, and Leonard wouldn't stand in her way. We need and deserve some real reason.

 

Definitely, and it better be a good one, otherwise all the previously mentioned plot points and the way she has behaved through the years will have seemd forced, unneccesary and empty.

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She's an enigma.

The problem is the writers, you never know where they are going. Kaley said as much in an interview, that when she gets the scripts, she doesn't know which way they're going. That's why we know the knight is the writers favorite chess piece. It can move in eight differnt directions, all of them crooked.

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I have to agree. Just what specifically is her damage? She's had no trouble connecting with pretty jerkwads and assholes (Kurt, the blogger, David Underhill. In fact we haven't heard about even one ex worth bothering with) But can't seem to commit to someone who actually cares about her. Sure she's been better lately but even as late as v-day she acts like she's afraid. It can't be a fear that Leonard will treat her badly after all these years. If he was going to dump on her, he'd have done it by now. Just WHAT is she afraid she's going to loose if she marries Leonard? Her 'acting career', that was always a longshot, and Leonard wouldn't stand in her way. We need and deserve some real reason.

 

I try to get into Penny's head to see what she is thinking and I have to say I can't for the life of me figure it out why she is holding back on Leonard.  When it comes to her commitment issues with Leonard (and yes, it's only with Leonard) everything is so vague, so ambivalent that is causes me to always second guess her.  I feel that the writers have missed the mark a lot when it comes to Penny in what she says, her actions, the way she acts toward Leonard.  It shouldn't be this hard to gauge what a character feels about her partner and where she wants to go in the relationship or even her life.

 

I have to give props to Lenny fanfic writers and especially Tensor for giving us some BTS to try and fill in the missing parts on what Penny is thinking and why she does some of the things she does.  What bothers me is that we have to go this route in order to understand where Penny is coming from.  So you have to ask yourself, if the writers do this on purpose in order to drag out the will she or won't she drama?

 

Finally will the reason be credible enough once writers have Penny answer the question(s) of what it is about Leonard that makes her so afraid to commit to the guy?  Why does Leonard have to work so hard to have a relationship with Penny? Is Penny still waiting on someone better?  I have so many unanswered questions about how things will work out for Lenny. 

Edited by ArmyGirl
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The writers have really used up all their mileage on this commitment issue ride and need to start actually writing something other than the 'Everyone Loves Sheldon Show'. If they can't write it, TPTB needs to get new writers, with some fresh ideas. There have been many shows about commited couples or even married couples that were funny and the TBBT writers don't even have to carry the show with L/P, just give then an equal part of the show. No I see the problem is the writing, too much stuck on doing the Sheldon show, so I say fire the Sheldon centric writers and get some new blood in there that has experience writing couple comedy.

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I don't know that she's afraid of committing to Leonard specifially, but that it's about committment in general.  It's still pretty vague as an ongoing theme, because it's not as if she comes from a broken home, for instance, where she might have seen a bad outcome to marriage, or whatever.

 

I don't know that the writers really have a backstory in mind, but it seems like she's afraid of the finality or reality of committing to one person, maybe precisely because she comes from a family where her parents are still married, after all these years.  It's a grown-up step and maybe she doesn't really feel like a grown-up in that regard.

 

It's the same reason many guys will drag their feet about getting married, even if they love the girl they're with and don't plan on leaving her.

 

In her previous relationships she hasn't really committed anything at all--since Kurt.  She lived with him for years and it turned out badly.  She once said ILY too soon and it turned out badly (was that Kurt?).

So it's been easier for her since then to deal with guys on the short-term, except that she's found herself drawn back to Leonard again and again until she finally realized that she was wrong to have let him go in the first place--again, an outcome of her gunshy response to big-picture emotions (his ILY).

 

So I think that it's not Leonard she's afraid to commit to.  I think she knows that she loves him.  It's just that she can't yet picture herself as a married woman.  I don't think she's waiting for someone else to come along, or that she's afraid she and Leonard won't work out or that one of them will dump the other.  I think she's just afraid of growing up--and maybe doesn't trust that her life will have that happy ending.

 

But I think she's getting there.  Even if she's still balking at getting married, she still seems to be committed to Leonard since she has been able to be more open with him about her feelings.

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I don't know that she's afraid of committing to Leonard specifially, but that it's about committment in general.  It's still pretty vague as an ongoing theme, because it's not as if she comes from a broken home, for instance, where she might have seen a bad outcome to marriage, or whatever.

 

I don't know that the writers really have a backstory in mind, but it seems like she's afraid of the finality or reality of committing to one person, maybe precisely because she comes from a family where her parents are still married, after all these years.  It's a grown-up step and maybe she doesn't really feel like a grown-up in that regard.

 

It's the same reason many guys will drag their feet about getting married, even if they love the girl they're with and don't plan on leaving her.

 

In her previous relationships she hasn't really committed anything at all--since Kurt.  She lived with him for years and it turned out badly.  She once said ILY too soon and it turned out badly (was that Kurt?).

So it's been easier for her since then to deal with guys on the short-term, except that she's found herself drawn back to Leonard again and again until she finally realized that she was wrong to have let him go in the first place--again, an outcome of her gunshy response to big-picture emotions (his ILY).

 

So I think that it's not Leonard she's afraid to commit to.  I think she knows that she loves him.  It's just that she can't yet picture herself as a married woman.  I don't think she's waiting for someone else to come along, or that she's afraid she and Leonard won't work out or that one of them will dump the other.  I think she's just afraid of growing up--and maybe doesn't trust that her life will have that happy ending.

 

But I think she's getting there.  Even if she's still balking at getting married, she still seems to be committed to Leonard since she has been able to be more open with him about her feelings.

This is probably the best explanation. I think we may be looking a little too deep because of the VD conversation ("glaringly obvious"). Occam's Razor says to keep it simple. She's afraid of commiting to Leonard (or anyone) because real life starts then, with real decisions. Leonard pushing for commitment can be thought of as simple too. He wants to pin Penny down as his because she's hot, and he thinks she's wonderful. In a sense, Leonard's not thinking beyond that. I doubt he is thinking about houses and kids. As the girl, and from a traditional mid-western environment, marriage to her is houses and kids, basically being pinned down. She fled to CA to avoid that scene. Leonard is from a very different place, with academics and their non-traditional arrangements. I doubt Leonard relates to the traditional nuclear family as well as Sheldon. Not to feed the Shennies, but inthat regard, Penny and Sheldon have a lot in common. I don't she has a clue what Princeton is like, so as part of the future, showing her how unconventional things are would make for a nice story arc.

Going forward even without the field trip, there is plenty of humor in their current living situation. They've inverted the normal sit-com deal, where the husband is the ditz, and the wife is all knowing. Penny and Leonard have non-overlapping expertises. Penny says these dumb things (in the VD episode for example, consider the opening scene where she relates the Heimlich Story). Leonard is not worldly, as Penny pointed out in the Tenure episode (e.g. bending over to tie her shoes). The interplay of these traits is the classic sit-com mismatched couple. Lots of humor to be mined there.

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Penny, like most people, is a work in progress.   As time goes by she matures and her attitudes and actions change.   Going back several seasons ago to criticize her now seems ludicrous to me.  

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Penny, like most people, is a work in progress. As time goes by she matures and her attitudes and actions change. Going back several seasons ago to criticize her now seems ludicrous to me.

Preach it. 6.24 is like the K/T layer, I hope. (Ross would get it).

ETA. If they choose to write her as stuck to Leonard with super glue, they could. And it would be no more miraculous than Sheldon getting a deal. In fact much less.

(go Shamy :))

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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Why is everyone now blaming the writer's? This is a Lenny Spoiler S7 Discussion thread just saying. Any why is everyone still ranting on about Pennys commitment issues, it was never about Leonard specefically, more her commitment issues in general. Dont see how anyone can now justify her having them, in S6 she had prooved she us committed to Leonard 100 %, especially in the latter half of the season, particularly that final car scene. Dont see how Penny can be depicted as a bad person because she diddnt commit to Leonard straight away, shes human who has flaws, she also up to Leonard was the archtypical girl next door, and last time I checked having a love life even one that doesen't include Leonard (Yeah I know I was shocked too) is not illegal in the state of Pasedena or anywhere else for the matter. You can maybe look at her upbringing and where she comes from, her family and in particular I think her father has a huge part to play when it comes to Penny's choice's in relationships over the years, and her commitment issues, I really beleive she lived with Kurt for four years because she is a typical girl from Texas and Kurt was her Physical equal, and Penny has always had problems with intimacy. Just like Leonard's mother has a huge part to play when it comes to a lack of approval, love, and recogntion. Leonard and Penny's identities, their decision making systems, and who they are all make up's of their respective parents. So if theirs any reason why Penny in the past has resisted Leonard, and Leonard has been very submissive in his behavour its probably that.

Edited by 3ku11

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Preach it. 6.24 is like the K/T layer, I hope. (Ross would get it).

Isn't 65 million years going back a bit far? ;)

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Don't writers understand metaphor, simile and hyperbole. I don't. Heheheh.

And her problems were deeply rooted in the past. :)

ETA @3ku11, I wrote yonks ago that they were clearing the decks with the s6 wrap up. The clues of the past may not predict the future. It's entirely possible that Penny will never show another hint of hesitation in her commitment to Leonard. From the Tenure Turbulence onwards she's been full on.

But the discontinuity might need an explanation, and her epiphanies from the Holographic Excitation and Closure x were maybe slow burning events.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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Don't writers understand metaphor, simile and hyperbole. I don't. Heheheh.

If I was a writer, I might. ;)

 

And her problems were deeply rooted in the past. :)

Heheheheheh.

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Don't writers understand metaphor, simile and hyperbole. I don't. Heheheh.

And her problems were deeply rooted in the past. :)

ETA @3ku11, I wrote yonks ago that they were clearing the decks with the s6 wrap up. The clues of the past may not predict the future. It's entirely possible that Penny will never show another hint of hesitation in her commitment to Leonard. From the Tenure Turbulence onwards she's been full on.

But the discontinuity might need an explanation, and her epiphanies from the Holographic Excitation and Closure x were maybe slow burning events.

While I don't expect Penny to be wearing a lab coat or become Leonard's assitant or anything anytime soon, I can see Leonard and Penny sustaining a conversation about Physics, that is if Penny doesen't get annoyed that Leonard corrected her on something she thought she grasped the concept of haha but well see.

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Don't writers understand metaphor, simile and hyperbole. I don't. Heheheh.

And her problems were deeply rooted in the past. :)

ETA @3ku11, I wrote yonks ago that they were clearing the decks with the s6 wrap up. The clues of the past may not predict the future. It's entirely possible that Penny will never show another hint of hesitation in her commitment to Leonard. From the Tenure Turbulence onwards she's been full on.

But the discontinuity might need an explanation, and her epiphanies from the Holographic Excitation and Closure x were maybe slow burning events.

Penny did hesitate in the s6 finale, when Bernadette pointed out that what helped her and Howard deal with his trip to space was to get married. She shut that down right quick. Having said that, I don't think this questions her commitment to Leonard, but her fear of marriage. As nogravtiasatall suggested, Penny can be written as stuck like glue to Leonard. A proposal isn't really essential if it is clear that Penny is fully committed to Leonard. Could you imagine a scenario where Penny is a little too stuck to Leonard? He's not really used to having a truly committed girlfriend, and that might take some adjustment. She could easily be around too much.

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Penny did hesitate in the s6 finale, when Bernadette pointed out that what helped her and Howard deal with his trip to space was to get married. She shut that down right quick. Having said that, I don't think this questions her commitment to Leonard, but her fear of marriage. As nogravtiasatall suggested, Penny can be written as stuck like glue to Leonard. A proposal isn't really essential if it is clear that Penny is fully committed to Leonard. Could you imagine a scenario where Penny is a little too stuck to Leonard? He's not really used to having a truly committed girlfriend, and that might take some adjustment. She could easily be around too much.

Yeah I don't think Penny and nor Leonard if he really thought about it are ready for marrage. That's fine for Howard and Bernadette it worked for them, but it's not for everyone. I think Penny and Leonard have alot more time and fun to have before they consider it, and I remember Leonard telling Penny she is going to have to propose to Leonard, which pretty much guarentees for Penny anyway, she won't lose Leonard because that's what she is really scared of. 

Edited by 3ku11
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Actually, that hesitation was a very mature thing. Howard and Bernadette were already planning their wedding and all they did was to cancel the big wedding and move it up a week. In the case of Leonard and Penny, they weren't planning one, no one had proposed, and a jump into a wedding, under those circumstances, especially with them being split up immediately afterward for four months, would have been a very foolish thing.

There's more to getting married than just the wedding. Howard and Bernadette spent a lot of season five working out the kinks of kids, living arrangements, the prenup thing, etc. Leonard and Penny had none of those conversations, and coupled with the lack of wedding planning, a marriage, before Leonard left, had a high probability of becoming a major disaster.

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Actually, that hesitation was a very mature thing. Howard and Bernadette were already planning their wedding and all they did was to cancel the big wedding and move it up a week. In the case of Leonard and Penny, they weren't planning one, no one had proposed, and a jump into a wedding, under those circumstances, especially with them being split up immediately afterward for four months, would have been a very foolish thing.There's more to getting married than just the wedding. Howard and Bernadette spent a lot of season five working out the kinks of kids, living arrangements, the prenup thing, etc. Leonard and Penny had none of those conversations, and coupled with the lack of wedding planning, a marriage, before Leonard left, had a high probability of becoming a major disaster.

I agree the hesitation was a good thing, as this was a trip laid on very quickly. Howard and Bernadette were much farther along, cretainly already engaged before his trip came up. However, Leonard did look at her wondering if there was any movement on that front. He can't ask, so it was an opportunity for him to see where she was at without breaking his promise. It does point out that she is not all in yet. Truly, Leonard shouldn't be either. I hadn't really thought about the logistics of it all, more considering it from a willingness of Penny to regard Leonard as a potential mate. They could easily delay a proposal past the next season just sweating out real issues like kids, what to do with Sheldon, meeting the folks, etc. The key thing is whether they can sell Penny and Leonard as a permanent couple without a proposal. I believe they can, and it could be more funny than breaking them up.

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TBH Leonard and Penny have been the most important relationship since the Pilot, the writers made their intentions clear when Leonard said "Our babies well be beautiful and smart", the first two seasons finalie were about Leonard and Penny. Lenny has always been a work in progress, Howard was luckey to meet Bernadette through Penny and it worked for them. When it comes to Lenny it is about give and take, it took Penny 6 seasons to tell Leonard she loves him, you can imagine how long it well take for her to propose lol so it is a while to come yet.

Edited by 3ku11
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Yeah, marriage and commitment can be different things. I can conceive of her being fully committed, excluding the technicality of marriage. I reiterate that I believe they exchanged promises on Valentines Day. So no more doubts, is maybe closer to my mark. But onwards! and we will find out.

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I reiterate that I believe they exchanged promises on Valentines Day. But onwards! and we will find out.

Or maybe a couple of weeks later. ;)

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