Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[Disgusted]

So they are taping the premiere today.  How we get some tibits on what is happening in S7E01.

 

It looks like the usual spies won't be going to the first episode taping. We might get bits from others. The best bet is to come back in 8 days, several spies are going to the episode 2 taping, and they show the previous episode to them as a warm-up.

[ArmyGirl]

It looks like the usual spies won't be going to the first episode taping. We might get bits from others. The best bet is to come back in 8 days, several spies are going to the episode 2 taping, and they show the previous episode to them as a warm-up.

 

 

Thanks so much for sharing this information with me.  Will look forward to next week.  Thanks again!

[Taperoo]

That's part of the reason I hated the breakup episodes. First, the ILY wasn't that big of a deal in context, and actually not a surprise if serious. Contrast Penny's ILY in season 6 with Leonard's in season 3. Second, dumping him in front of his friends in a spur of the moment outburst is totally unacceptable. There is no way to put a good face on it. Third, the only reasonable way the guys should have handled it was to cut her off entirely. She should have been dead to the guys.

As much as I love Penny and Leoanrd, I'm not quite done with her needing to feel jealous. Throughout Leonard's relationship with Penny, he has known that she regarded their situation as temporary, and that she was keeping her options open. It is only recently that Penny has become invested in the relationship (recall that she was ready to dump him as boring as recently as the second episode of season 6, and has still put little or no effort nto the relationship except to be needy or jealous). There is much karma remaining for Penny to work off before she is truly worthy to be Leonard's wife.

 

Penny usually gets mean when she feels scared or angry, it's a defence mechnism for her.

It seems to me that Penny has trust issues stemming from her past (hoping that gets explored a bit in s7), she may be sub conciously worried that Leonard will hurt her or

the relationship is too good to be true or she's not good enough for Leonard or any other reasons the writers come up with. Thus Penny reverts to either being mean or lazy. Bernadette and Amy have pulled her out of that

trap in s6. As for Leonard he appears as though he can't trust himself to not mess the relationship up, so messes up by not being himself.

[ArmyGirl]

Penny usually gets mean when she feels scared or angry, it's a defence mechnism for her.

It seems to me that Penny has trust issues stemming from her past (hoping that gets explored a bit in s7), she may be sub conciously worried that Leonard will hurt her or

the relationship is too good to be true or she's not good enough for Leonard or any other reasons the writers come up with. Thus Penny reverts to either being mean or lazy. Bernadette and Amy have pulled her out of that

trap in s6. As for Leonard he appears as though he can't trust himself to not mess the relationship up, so messes up by not being himself.

 

 

May I ask what the bold part means?  Thanks.

[3ku11]

I would say he trust him self and the relationship now he knows Penny loves him, it gave him the security needed to be himself, they are both in love now. 

[Nogravitasatall]

I can't recall all the things from Penny and Leonard 1.0 that have been rectified in 2.0. To while away the time anyone care to try to recreate the bug list?

ie : Leonard's issue with psychics was addressed in the Closure episode. He let it go through to the keeper when Penny mentioned it.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[3ku11]

Pennys untidiness to sudden tidiness could reflect change in her life influenced by her relationships. S1 Very messy apartment Sheldon hated it haha, which was a physical manifestation of her personality. Fast forward to S6 very tidy almost domesticated. This IMO represents Pennys growth and maturity and how her self actulization has grown. Prob nothing to do with above, but its a big part of the cross between Leonard and Penny 1.0 & 2.0.

[I.Am.Molly]

I can't recall all the things from Penny and Leonard 1.0 that have been rectified in 2.0. To while away the time anyone care to try to recreate the bug list?

ie : Leonard's issue with psychics was addressed in the Closure episode. He let it go through to the keeper when Penny mentioned it.

 

He has been quieter when they kiss and she went to college so that they have more fun things to talk about.  She didn't stop wearing her heels though (BAD PENNY!) and he hasn't fixed his eyebrows.

 

I watched The Wheaton Recurrance last night for the first time in a long time and OMG it was so sad. I know a few of you seem to think Penny was way out of line during that episode but i really felt for her. The part where Leonard says 'fine i'll shut up' and she turns to him with tears in her eyes because thats not what she meant, she just wants him to back off her a little, was sooo sad.

 

That was one of Leonards main problems in Leonard and Penny 1.0, he would push her about things when he should have lay off and let her breathe. We seen that when she finally told him she loved him, he knew her well enough not to chase her down and make her explain how she felt or get her to say it again.

 

There was also the part in the laundry room, where Penny comes to see him to make sure everything is okay and he sort of sweeps it under the rug because you can just tell he knew it was going to end badly for the two of them when they talked about it. I really felt for him in that part, so true to Leonard to just pretend everything is okay when its not. That has also been fixed. He's not so worried about her breaking up with him and would rather talk through things to make it better than just leave it. The Valentines Day ep is a perfect example of that and so is Egg Salad to a certain point. He went to talk to her about their problems, she never came to him.

 

I think the whole commitment thing might be looked at a little this season, and i hope it is. Look to Tensors fanfiction and you will see there what i would love to happen! (Hello Kitty promise ring band aids EEK!)  

[3ku11]

He has been quieter when they kiss and she went to college so that they have more fun things to talk about.  She didn't stop wearing her heels though (BAD PENNY!) and he hasn't fixed his eyebrows.

 

I watched The Wheaton Recurrance last night for the first time in a long time and OMG it was so sad. I know a few of you seem to think Penny was way out of line during that episode but i really felt for her. The part where Leonard says 'fine i'll shut up' and she turns to him with tears in her eyes because thats not what she meant, she just wants him to back off her a little, was sooo sad.

 

That was one of Leonards main problems in Leonard and Penny 1.0, he would push her about things when he should have lay off and let her breathe. We seen that when she finally told him she loved him, he knew her well enough not to chase her down and make her explain how she felt or get her to say it again.

 

There was also the part in the laundry room, where Penny comes to see him to make sure everything is okay and he sort of sweeps it under the rug because you can just tell he knew it was going to end badly for the two of them when they talked about it. I really felt for him in that part, so true to Leonard to just pretend everything is okay when its not. That has also been fixed. He's not so worried about her breaking up with him and would rather talk through things to make it better than just leave it. The Valentines Day ep is a perfect example of that and so is Egg Salad to a certain point. He went to talk to her about their problems, she never came to him.

 

I think the whole commitment thing might be looked at a little this season, and i hope it is. Look to Tensors fanfiction and you will see there what i would love to happen! (Hello Kitty promise ring band aids EEK!)  

Agree with the Wheton Occurance, felt really sorry for Penny she obviousley diddn't want to break up with Leonard, but the inevtability of the direction of their relationship at this point, they were in completley different places in the realationship, and although Wheton manipulated Penny always hated him for that haha, but prob just delayed the inevitable. Never understood why people go on about how Penny needs to make up for zero - 1 compromises that she has made through their entire relationship, because if you think about it Penny up to Leonard had as much relationship experience as Leonard, Leonard was probably the first real relationship she had. But at that point she wasen't ready for that level of emotion, she was just getting used to dating another type of guy opposed to her normal preposition, where as Leonard had been dating Penny since they first met haha. So I think it is unfair to judge Penny for what she did, because at the end of the day at that point in her life she had to do what was best for her, and also I think the writers did it to keep the suspense, the whole "Well they or won't they" is a common factor in sitcoms, so I think it was a neccessary change. This led to Season 4 when Pria was introduced, this forced Penny to re examine her feelings for Leonard, and it was made clear that the only reason she is not with him, is her own insecurites in not being ready for a serious relationship, Penny has always been an work in progress. So obviousley Pria was very important she was a catalyst for change, and when the characters started maturing. Since S6 and in particular the Lab Scene, was really the moment Lenny connected as equals, and then their was the halloween EP, then which lead into the I Love You scene. Since then Penny has still shown signs of insecurites like the Valentines day ep, but I think ever since Leonard recevied the I Love You, it has given him the sense of security he needed to challenge Penny on things, as in the past he would either push to far or not enough, their was no trust their. That Valentines Day EP IMO was more important then The I Love You, they are just words that scene was the first time I ever saw Leonard treating Penny like an actual relationship, not like he's the nerd who scored the hot chick and just goes with everything Penny says like in S3 because he diddnt want to lose her, and it was also the first time I saw Penny start to trust Leonard and be honest about her insecurities. And then in the final car scene in the S6 Finalie, I think they both knew their relationship is in a good place, it was really the moment Lenny became equals. I have really enjoyed watching the characters espeically Lenny develop over time, and I think the writers have a done a very good job.

[5Mississippis]

Ack! Has anyone heard anything, even a droplet of news from last nights taping? The studio was filled with people! And not a peep from anyone whose friend, colleague, bestie, bro, homie, sidekick, mate, comrade, bud, buddy, cohort, chum, confidant, Amiga, home slice may have attended and give us a morsel of nourishment?! I'm dying here!! Notify my next of kin!

[Taperoo]

I would assume they were asked not to spill any beans.

[I.Am.Molly]

Ack! Has anyone heard anything, even a droplet of news from last nights taping? The studio was filled with people! And not a peep from anyone whose friend, colleague, bestie, bro, homie, sidekick, mate, comrade, bud, buddy, cohort, chum, confidant, Amiga, home slice may have attended and give us a morsel of nourishment?! I'm dying here!! Notify my next of kin!

 

I think you've just summed up how we are all feeling! I dont think anyone has heard anything. We may have to wait until next week when one of the regulars is attending... Sucks, but, we have waited this long, im sure we can hold off for another week! haha

[Disgusted]

I would assume they were asked not to spill any beans.

 

Yeah, that's worked so well in the past.

 

Don't forget they live in L.A., don't they sleep until noon there?

[hamerman55]

The problem with the s3 break up to me wasn't the break up per se, it was how Penny did it. The relationship wasn't really working prior to this, which reflect the inability of the writers to develop the characters as a couple at the time. As has been said by the show runners many times, there is no grand plan. So getting Penny and Leonard together at the beginning of season 3 grew organically out of the drift of the episodes. Once together, it seemed they had trouble reconciling "The Sheldon Cooper Show" with the central relationship. Lorre was right to order the breakup, as it was clear the writers didn't know what to do. Breaking them up reset the board.

The problem with the break up was that it was public, cruel and humiliating. She could have asked him out to the car. It would have

been far better for her to demand he take her home, and break up with him in private. It would have accomplished Wheaton's shallow goal of throwing the bowling, and gotten Penny and Leonard out of sight so she could dump him in private. Why break up with him right then, on the spot, in front of his friends, in a fricking bowling alley? In any normal group of guys, even nerds, she would have been dead to them after such a humiliation. If she'd let him down easy, in private, then things could have gone back to where they ended up and it would have made sense. Was it necessary to humiliate Leonard? Did it give him some edge in the relationship later? So far, Penny still seems to insist on controlling the pace of the relationship, and clearly she's still reacting with her gut. There is no plan. In fact, it is counter-intuitive. She decides to break up with him last fall, then sleeps with him after dating for six months. It didn't occur to her to sleep with him before? Yes, I know they had the near miss that Leonard blew in the finale of season 5, so she cuts him off for another four months because he might ask her to marry him? As has been observed many times, she's and enigma.

So basically, the problem is not that Penny was bad for breaking up with Leonard in season 3, it was the way she went about it.

[I.Am.Molly]

The problem with the break up was that it was public, cruel and humiliating. She could have asked him out to the car. It would have

been far better for her to demand he take her home, and break up with him in private. It would have accomplished Wheaton's shallow goal of throwing the bowling, and gotten Penny and Leonard out of sight so she could dump him in private. Why break up with him right then, on the spot, in front of his friends, in a fricking bowling alley? In any normal group of guys, even nerds, she would have been dead to them after such a humiliation. If she'd let him down easy, in private, then things could have gone back to where they ended up and it would have made sense. Was it necessary to humiliate Leonard? Did it give him some edge in the relationship later? So far, Penny still seems to insist on controlling the pace of the relationship, and clearly she's still reacting with her gut. There is no plan. In fact, it is counter-intuitive. She decides to break up with him last fall, then sleeps with him after dating for six months. It didn't occur to her to sleep with him before? Yes, I know they had the near miss that Leonard blew in the finale of season 5, so she cuts him off for another four months because he might ask her to marry him? As has been observed many times, she's and enigma.

 

The thing is she never actually said she was leaving him. She never announced to the bowling alley that she was leaving him, all she said was that it wasn't fair to him and she was sorry. Leonard was the one that said, 'i'm pretty sure it's already over'. All Penny was doig was freaking out after being put, as she saw it, on the spot.

 

We all know Penny doesnt exactly think things through so when she felt like Leonard was pressuring her in the bowling alley after them agreeing to move on past it, she freaked. She didn't intend on breaking up with him, none of it was planned it just happened.

 

Yes, Penny does have control of the pace of the relationship, because she is the one that needs it. Leonard has told her he is ready and waiting, its her that has to get past her issues before she takes the next step in their relationship, not him, so shes the one that has to be in control of it right now. She thought of breaking up with him and then decided to sleep with him instead, because she knew deep down she didn't want to leave him. I'm pretty sure i went into more detail at some point about her whole issue with the relationship being boring as her reason for wanting to break up with him so im not going into it again. And she didn't sleep with him after he proposed probably because she was unsure of the relationship and yes maybe it was a little selfish of her, but once again, its her who has these major issues and its her that had to get over them, and she did. Because Leonard let her have that time that he didn't back when they first went out and caused her to break up with him.

[SRAM]

I guess the big thing I want to see from Penny is for her to put more into her relationship with Leonard, then she takes out.

[I.Am.Molly]

I guess the big thing I want to see from Penny is for her to put more into her relationship with Leonard, then she takes out.

 

But isnt that basically what happened in season 6? The whole season it was about Penny realizing how to act in a real relationship. She admitted in the beginning that she expected Leonard to do all of this stuff for her and when she realized that wasn't the way it worked she changed it. She went to his work and took more of an interest in him, what he does and what he loves. She even let him move in, because she was scared to say no and risk him getting upset and leaving her, even when she wasnt ready for it. In season 6, Penny put a lot more into the relationship than Leonard did, because she was the one that had to. Thats been done. i dont see why it always has to be Pennys fighting for Leonard's affections. In my opinion they are now on equal ground and id like to see more of that in season 7. They both know they are in it for the long haul and they are taking their time before they look to moving in and getting married. Leonard is letting Penny find her way through her commitment fears but apart from that they are both at the same place. Like i said, i dont see why she has to continue to prove herself.

[Nogravitasatall]

I felt for Penny. She was visibly more upset than Leonard and not really comprehending. "I'm sorry, Leonard" was what I recall. Sorry I can't do this, sorry I can't cope, sorry I let you down, sorry this is happening, sorry I'm not stronger.

I remember her colouring up and breaking down.

that's my impression. I'm now going to check the transcript, and the definition of wussie.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[I.Am.Molly]

I felt for Penny. She was visibly more upset than Leonard and not really comprehending. "I'm sorry, Leonard" was what I recall. Sorry I can't do this, sorry I can't cope, sorry I let you down, sorry this is happening, sorry I'm not stronger.

I remember her colouring up and breaking down.

that's my impression. I'm now going to check the transcript, and the definition of wussie.

 

Thats exactly what it was. It was so sad. buts its okay, its all over and if tptb are as clever as i think they are they wont do that to us again! haha

[hamerman55]

I felt for Penny. She was visibly more upset than Leonard and not really comprehending. "I'm sorry, Leonard" was what I recall. Sorry I can't do this, sorry I can't cope, sorry I let you down, sorry this is happening, sorry I'm not stronger.

I remember her colouring up and breaking down.

that's my impression. I'm now going to check the transcript, and the definition of wussie.

That Leonard would not be as visibly upset is consistent with him being dumped before. One gets stoic about it. I am also reminded of a Joey Tribianni comment, where he pointed that when someone says "its not you, it is you". It wasn't her failings, it was his.

Leonard pushed too hard, which he has only recently acquired the wisdom to stop doing. With few exceptions, he's developed a lighter touch with the relationship, which is a good thing in any relationship. Sometimes you just gotta let it go. I think he actually figured that out in 100th when he wargamed his way through starting up again with Penny. He's only slipped once, in proposing during sex. Actually, Penny should have let that go too. Leonard should also not have brought it up later. Did he really need to ask?

In season 3, they really weren't ready for a full on serious relationship. Leonard really wasn't, even though he thought he was. The break was good for both of them, and as I've pointed out before, they didn't really seem to be working in Leonard and Penny 1.0.

[Taperoo]

I guess the big thing I want to see from Penny is for her to put more into her relationship with Leonard, then she takes out.

She's made some progress with that, but it's going to take a while before she really engages with Leonard on that

sort of level. It'll be part of her working out her commitment issues.

[SRAM]

But isnt that basically what happened in season 6? The whole season it was about Penny realizing how to act in a real relationship. She admitted in the beginning that she expected Leonard to do all of this stuff for her and when she realized that wasn't the way it worked she changed it. She went to his work and took more of an interest in him, what he does and what he loves. She even let him move in, because she was scared to say no and risk him getting upset and leaving her, even when she wasnt ready for it. In season 6, Penny put a lot more into the relationship than Leonard did, because she was the one that had to. Thats been done. i dont see why it always has to be Pennys fighting for Leonard's affections. In my opinion they are now on equal ground and id like to see more of that in season 7. They both know they are in it for the long haul and they are taking their time before they look to moving in and getting married. Leonard is letting Penny find her way through her commitment fears but apart from that they are both at the same place. Like i said, i dont see why she has to continue to prove herself.

 

 

Yes, we got a lot in Season 6, and I am happy, but I want balance and it is not there yet.  I think the last episode of season 6 shows that there is still no balance, because when Leonard and Penny were sitting, eating and talking, it was still Leonard that is worried about the relationship, not Penny, because she still has control.  I don't think they can get engaged until Penny shares control with Leonard, I don't want to see them engaged and Leonard is going to have to constantly worry if she is going to change her mind.  If they had both talked about their relationship and both were concerned about the time apart and its impacts, then they could said to be on equal footing, but Penny's response is that he would have to be there to screw things up.  The writers still have her in the controlling role and I would like to see that change in Season 7, to more of them sharing dominance depending on the situation.

[5Mississippis]

On the S7 Spoiler Thread, someone put up a summary of last nights taping! I know it's different when it's acted out with all the nuances that are missing in a straight narrative but I gotta be honest, I am completely stunned. I know I have to see it for myself, but really, really not liking what Leonard seemingly has done. Have to wait for the show to judge better, of course, but on the face of it, it seems like a kind of a bastardly move and very OOC. Still stunned. The Shennys are going to love this. What does anyone else think? 

[Nogravitasatall]

Well, I saw the spoiler report and I'm not sure how I feel about Leonard sharing Penny's film. Very lame, in some regards. Actually I do know how I feel. The humiliations have begun. So "Porky's". I hope it plays better on screen.

(Terrible breach of trust, I think. Howard yes, but Leonard? Dastardly is meek. They are going for the laugh but have besmirched Leonard with this)

Edited August 21, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[ArmyGirl]

On the S7 Spoiler Thread, someone put up a summary of last nights taping! I know it's different when it's acted out with all the nuances that are missing in a straight narrative but I gotta be honest, I am completely stunned. I know I have to see it for myself, but really, really not liking what Leonard seemingly has done. Have to wait for the show to judge better, of course, but on the face of it, it seems like a kind of a bastardly move and very OOC. Still stunned. The Shennys are going to love this. What does anyone else think? 

 

We all knew it was coming -- as I have stated Leonard is the whipping boy of the show.  Can't have Sheldon or Penny doing something crazy in the storyline so Leonard is the only one left. 

 

The writers had to feed the Shennies, the anti-Leonard and other that don't care for the guy.  It doesn't matter that Leonard is so OOC as long as it makes their precious Sheldon and Penny look good..