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Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread


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On a completely different topic : am I the only one delighted Penny is still going to community college and, apparently, doing well there ? 

 

I know the reference to the "check plus/check/check minus" grading system was meant as a little jab at the level of academic "excellence" usually associated with such institutions but still... Penny used to have to bully her friends to help her get a B-. Now she does it all on her own and seems to be performing perfectly fine, by community college standard ! Surely that is progress.

I also liked the fact that they have Penny continuing to pursue her education.  I was wondering if perhaps she is finding a new passion for her life other than acting.  I have wondered if they would have Penny get into psychology.  She does seem to have a good insight into people. 

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So true Tensor.   The most consistent motif the writers have used with Penny is her insecurity about her intelligence and judgement. It pops up constantly in several episodes a season, starting with

Bullshit. My wife and I have OUR money. If money is budgeted for her to get clothes or for me to get clothes, neither one of us is giving the other money for clothes, we are using OUR money to get clo

OK, I went and re-watched the show tonight. I was looking at how Leonard and Penny reacted and it became obvious it was a no-win for Leonard. He was obviously sticking his foot in his mouth while tryi

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I woulden't say Johnny or Leonard is gaining any substantial amount of weight, he is definately more stockier then he was in Season one, but that was seven years ago. Nor do I think his weight has fluctated between episode's, and I haven't noticed him getting fatter each episode, like I said he has obviousley put on weight, but I don't think he look's any bigger then he did last Season.
i cannot remember how big he was in season 6 exactly but I'm sure he wasn't like now

People are making this all sound supremely bad. I think most of us would have similar reaction, teasing and joking, if we saw baby photos or a book about someone close to you, because you both know that it's just as a joke, you're not genuinely going ha ha you did this when you were a kid - and if Leonard thought Penny was genuinely mocking his childhood I'm sure he would have told her flat out and she would have understood that. But they had that sense of trust there that she wasn't going to use it to personally insult him. When he saw that he could use this to his advantage, he did, but it wasn't taking advantage of her, he was just testing out how far he could go and enjoy that she was doing things for him, because he wouldn't have gotten this level of care from his mother when he was upset, whereas Penny is the exact opposite. And then Penny finds out from Bernie from Howard what he has been doing, of course she's going to have that kind of reaction, because she doesn't know the story from Leonard. She only hears the worst part of it and reacts to that specifically. And Bev's emotional abuse isn't nice, but her purpose on the show is to provide a bit of comedy and some sympathy towards Leonard, not represent the psychological issues of emotional abuse and experimental parenting. Taken out of the context of the show, yes, it's bad, but within the show, it serves its purpose, but naturally people will have very different reactions to it - and it's good that we do see the bad side of it because we understand a lot more about Leonard and his upbringing through this, as well as why he doesn't tell Penny these things easily. I'm so happy Penny is doing a Psychology class though like it's so cute. I'll bet she started that while he was away! Ooh and I enjoyed that Leonard was wearing that tiger-face t-shirt in the lab, rrrrr!
i couldn't agree with u more to add what you've said these things are just for to make us laugh and nothing more ! but i just don't know, if he likes to have sex with her at work that much why he didn't ask her! he didn't need a book for it! Edited by arash

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There is plenty of blame to go around as far as the book incident is conerned.  Leonard's childhood is a subject that he is not comfortable talking about and the only times he does is to either complain about it or use it to show someone else that their life isnt so bad.  Penny pushing this topic with him (at first) when he made it clear he did not want to talk about it is similar to Leonard pushing Penny to talk about committment issues in the past.  She should have let it go.  However, Leonard should not have taken advantage of her compassion later on.  Some have said he is pushing his boundaries, but I don't necessarily buy that as a valid excuse.  By its definition, pushing boundaries implies a knowledge that you are maybe going too far.  He went too far and he knew it.  I actually was encouraged by this as I didn't think either party was more wrong than the other.  Penny just happened to win the battle of wrongs by bringing in the big guns (Bev) which you can argue was either justified or not.

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As I stated on another thread, I thought this episode was pretty funny.  I really liked the Lenny and Shamy stories.  I thought Leonard was pretty dumb for telling Howard what he was doing.  I loved the way Bernedette did fall for what Howard was trying.  In the end, I thought Leonard got what he deserved.

Leonard certainly needed to say something different to Howard. But in a way IMO he was feeling guilty for what he was doing so he came clean.

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People are making this all sound supremely bad. I think most of us would have similar reaction, teasing and joking, if we saw baby photos or a book about someone close to you, because you both know that it's just as a joke, you're not genuinely going ha ha you did this when you were a kid - and if Leonard thought Penny was genuinely mocking his childhood I'm sure he would have told her flat out and she would have understood that. But they had that sense of trust there that she wasn't going to use it to personally insult him. When he saw that he could use this to his advantage, he did, but it wasn't taking advantage of her, he was just testing out how far he could go and enjoy that she was doing things for him, because he wouldn't have gotten this level of care from his mother when he was upset, whereas Penny is the exact opposite. And then Penny finds out from Bernie from Howard what he has been doing, of course she's going to have that kind of reaction, because she doesn't know the story from Leonard. She only hears the worst part of it and reacts to that specifically. And Bev's emotional abuse isn't nice, but her purpose on the show is to provide a bit of comedy and some sympathy towards Leonard, not represent the psychological issues of emotional abuse and experimental parenting. Taken out of the context of the show, yes, it's bad, but within the show, it serves its purpose, but naturally people will have very different reactions to it - and it's good that we do see the bad side of it because we understand a lot more about Leonard and his upbringing through this, as well as why he doesn't tell Penny these things easily. 

 

I'm so happy Penny is doing a Psychology class though like it's so cute. I'll bet she started that while he was away! Ooh and I enjoyed that Leonard was wearing that tiger-face t-shirt in the lab, rrrrr! 

I agree with most everything you said. To me though there was a point it went from testing to taking advantage of. IMO that happened when Penny agreed not to go watch the football game. (weird concept to me since I was watching the Bears/Giants game last night. Go Bears) This to me is where he should have stopped. Not wanting to watch it at Penny's apartment and instead wanting to watch "the Hobbit" was the point that everything afterwards was taking advantage of her. At that point I lost all sympathy for him until Bev showed up. Thats why in the end everything evened up at least for me.

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I agree with most everything you said. To me though there was a point it went from testing to taking advantage of. IMO that happened when Penny agreed not to go watch the football game. (weird concept to me since I was watching the Bears/Giants game last night. Go Bears) This to me is where he should have stopped. Not wanting to watch it at Penny's apartment and instead wanting to watch "the Hobbit" was the point that everything afterwards was taking advantage of her. At that point I lost all sympathy for him until Bev showed up. Thats why in the end everything evened up at least for me.

I agree with you in that, to me too, there was a point when Leonard's innocent manipulation "shifted", in a way. However, to me, it is was not the watching of The Hobbit; it was the Python documentary.

There was something, dare I say, Beverly-ish about it. In the same way his mother made him look for non existent Easter Eggs just to know for how long he would keep searching, Leonard made Penny watch a documentary even he found boring just to see how far he could push her. That is when the whole thing "slipped", I believe : it stopped being about a guy who, for the first time in his life, feels like he is the king of the world and does not know how to deal with his new "power" (wrong but perfecly understandable), and started looking like an experiment in which Penny was the guinea pig (just plain wrong). 

 

Again, it was absolutely not awful. Leonard is still, and will forever be, a remarkable man with the kindest of souls. But he definitely went too far on that one so Penny's revenge was warranted. He played, he lost. Hopefully, he has learnt his lesson : you do not mess with Penny. Ever. If you value your continued existence, physical integrity and peace of mind.  ;)

 

Beverly's appearance was fine. Not quite as good as when she used to show up in person, of course, but just fine. Furthermore, we got some interesting information out of it : Bev is a kinky woman ! I knew it. Under this cool, detached exterior beats the heart of a freak. I cannot wait for Leonard's siblings to appear someday. I am certain they are even more unhinged than their mommy (and daddy)... Oh, what I would not give for Penny to find out and use the intel to make them be nice to their brother !

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The more I think about this episode, the more it reminds me how domestic they were the second half of season 6. I see Penny acting more like a wife in this episode than a girlfriend, even at the end. She dolled herself up to remind him, remember this, you like this part but what you did means you are not going to see or play with, until I'm over this. Just like a wife.

No one actually saw a relationship problem with them, this is obviously a speed bump. Notice how there was no 'Are we still dating' remark and how Leonard asked her to come back because he was really sad now, after talking to his mother, he even knew Penny's being upset was only temporary.

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Overall I thought the episode was really good, except for the part with Beverly. Without that it probably makes my top 20 episodes list. I don't think either Leonard or Penny really crossed a line or was in the wrong. Both could have stopped a lot sooner, but neither really overreacted at any point. That said there were plenty of better ways to end that story-line without bringing in Beverly.

If this was real life, Leonard would have serious woman issues and would probably be a serial killer. We would be watching his story on Criminal Minds.

Now I want to see a "crossover" episode, get Johnny on Criminal Minds to play an experimental physicist/serial killer with an identical childhood to Leonard.

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that was a funny episode i enjoyed it .lol and it was implied that penny is still hanging with her old friends. stuart was the best. i think writers should write more stories for him did anyone notice that leonard is getting fat episode by episode? Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4

 

Yes, me too! i really liked that she is hanging with her old friends as well. Even if it's not shown, it gives us aq glimpse of her life outside of the 1/2 per week we get to see it. I also agree that Stuart was incredibly funny. The expresssions he made while being photographed by Raj were hillarious.

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Yes, me too! i really liked that she is hanging with her old friends as well. Even if it's not shown, it gives us aq glimpse of her life outside of the 1/2 per week we get to see it. I also agree that Stuart was incredibly funny. The expresssions he made while being photographed by Raj were hillarious.

exactly

too add what you've said we should consider that penny was about 21 when she met guys , it's not easy to forget 21 years , she might have a best friend those times.... it would be so odd if there were no sign of her old friends in her life!!

and i think penny hanging out with her old friends has nothing to do with her growth .

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4

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exactly

too add what you've said we should consider that penny was about 21 when she met guys , it's not easy to forget 21 years , she might have a best friend those times.... it would be so odd if there were no sign of her old friends in her life!!

and i think penny hanging out with her old friends has nothing to do with her growth .

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4

 

She was 21 when she met the guys, yes, but she had also only recently moved to LA, so any friends she had made already, hadn't been her friends for long. Her oldest friends would be back in Nebraska, so that probably wasnt who she was going to hang out with. Just wanted to point that out haha :)

 

tumblr_muho8wu1uW1qdz44io5_250.gif   tumblr_muho8wu1uW1qdz44io8_250.gif

 

Leonard and Penny's expressions in these moments could be the sole reason why i enjoyed this episode so much. Just wanted to put that out there. These two just give me so many feels its unreal. <3333

Edited by I.Am.Molly
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She was 21 when she met the guys, yes, but she had also only recently moved to LA, so any friends she had made already, hadn't been her friends for long. Her oldest friends would be back in Nebraska, so that probably wasnt who she was going to hang out with. Just wanted to point that out haha :)tumblr_muho8wu1uW1qdz44io5_250.giftumblr_muho8wu1uW1qdz44io8_250.gif Leonard and Penny's expressions in these moments could be the sole reason why i enjoyed this episode so much. Just wanted to put that out there. These two just give me so many feels its unreal. <3333
you made a good point but i'm confused , i remember she said that she dated kurt for 4 years so i think she moved to LA longtime ago but she was living with kurt and after her breakup with kurt she moved to 4B.i'm not sure i'm just saying. Edited by arash

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She was 21 when she met the guys, yes, but she had also only recently moved to LA, so any friends she had made already, hadn't been her friends for long. Her oldest friends would be back in Nebraska, so that probably wasnt who she was going to hang out with. Just wanted to point that out haha :)

 

tumblr_muho8wu1uW1qdz44io5_250.gif   tumblr_muho8wu1uW1qdz44io8_250.gif

 

Leonard and Penny's expressions in these moments could be the sole reason why i enjoyed this episode so much. Just wanted to put that out there. These two just give me so many feels its unreal. <3333

Ah these lil gifs. :wub:

I love that she does take Leonard with her to watch games and stuff with her friends. That's cute and a really nice, casual throwback to the first time they dated and he had to ask. 

 

Also, I just re-watched it with my brother and I randomly thought, Penny making that comment "oh my god you still go left" - she certainly seems to remember these things very well. Touch memory? ;) 

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Really... his ping pong paddle? Poor Leonard.

NOT his toy rocket, so at least not the worst toy. Still... he had thought that was a dream. What a burden for a child, to think one could dream that. Lucky he's got Penny for nurture now. Penny at this point didn't really know what she was doing, but on the face of it it's maybe fair retribution. But she made need to further her studies to help him. He could be a gold mine for future papers. Lol. Howard broke "the code" too.

But colour and movement made it better.

Eta. I laughed like a drain at the whole thing. It's only the one idea I don't like,. The show was totally hilarious, even with Penny being experimented on and the Ping Pong. The adults can mess around as much as they want.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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Here is what I do not understand.  As some have said, it appears that Penny has somehow bonded with Beverly even if it is on shaky of ground.  Why?  Why bond with her at all?  I get all the reasons why Leonard puts up with her to the level he does.  She's his mother and no matter how much damage she'd have done in reality, fictional Leonard still has some love for her.  Fine.  But Leonard has shown in the past that he really wants nothing to do with her.  He fought against her first visit.  He's never called her for any advice even if Sheldon called her for him.  It was not Leonard's choice.  Now, granted, Leonard has at least tried with her when she has shown up but I think that is just because Leonard is a good guy who, despite not wanting to make the first move with her, will at least try and deal with her.  I don't get Penny dealing with her on any level.  She is very much in love with Leonard.  By this point in their relationship she has to see that Beverly is bad news for Leonard.  While I would agree that Leonard still tries for Beverly's approval, in the end, I don't think he's going to care if she approves of Penny or not.  Penny, for the most part, does not always seem to care what others think of her relationship with Leonard (at least not people who scoff at it).  Why would she care what Beverly thinks?  Given what she knows of the damage Beverly has done to Leonard, of the trauma to his childhood, I don't think she should care what Beverly thinks of her.  Leonard needs the exact opposite of his mother in his life; he does not need for his future fiance to bond with the woman who tormented his entire youth.  Leonard needs Penny on his side and I hope that soon she comes to this realization and backs him with Beverly instead of bonding with her. 

Edited by JonRS92
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If she continues with the psychology courses she might come to the conclusion that the best thing for their relationship is not for her to get approval from Beverly but to back Leonard against Beverly.

 

Did anyone else notice that she said the book was on the "Recommended Reading List" for her class, she didn't have to read it, it wasn't required, but she still bought a copy and at least started to read it. True part of that might be because she knew the author, but S5 and earlier Penny never would have read an academic book that wasn't required, and even early to mid S6 Penny probably wouldn't have. Either she really likes Psychology or she's taking her education more seriously.

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Here is what I do not understand.  As some have said, it appears that Penny has somehow bonded with Beverly even if it is on shaky of ground.  Why?  Why bond with her at all?  I get all the reasons why Leonard puts up with her to the level he does.  She's his mother and no matter how much damage she'd have done in reality, fictional Leonard still has some love for her.  Fine.  But Leonard has shown in the past that he really wants nothing to do with her.  He fought against her first visit.  He's never called her for any advice even if Sheldon called her for him.  It was not Leonard's choice.  Now, granted, Leonard has at least tried with her when she has shown up but I think that is just because Leonard is a good guy who, despite not wanting to make the first move with her, will at least try and deal with her.  I don't get Penny dealing with her on any level.  She is very much in love with Leonard.  By this point in their relationship she has to see that Beverly is bad news for Leonard.  While I would agree that Leonard still tries for Beverly's approval, in the end, I don't think he's going to care if she approves of Penny or not.  Penny, for the most part, does not always seem to care what others think of her relationship with Leonard (at least not people who scoff at it).  Why would she care what Beverly thinks?  Given what she knows of the damage Beverly has done to Leonard, of the trauma to his childhood, I don't think she should care what Beverly thinks of her.  Leonard needs the exact opposite of his mother in his life; he does not need for his future fiance to bond with the woman who tormented his entire youth.  Leonard needs Penny on his side and I hope that soon she comes to this realization and backs him with Beverly instead of bonding with her.

^^^^^ this. My circle of trust point! But she will get there, once she studies more.

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Why would she care what Beverly thinks?  

 

I think it's possible that Bev is the one parental figure in Penny's life who really approves of her. She says that she always wanted her fathers approval and I'm not sure about her own mother but I don't think she ever got that from either of them. So having the mother of the man she loves approve of her will give her a sense of that, even if it is a little selfish. And Beverly is so very critical of Leonard, so to be accepted as his girlfriend and future wife and mother of his children will probably mean a lot to her, and probably to Leonard - that his mom has accepted something in his life at last, to this level. 

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To me Leonard started crossing the line when he got Penny to watch the Hobbit instead of the Nebraska football game. He should have watched the game then and got a promise of watching the movie later. Penny made a big concession by watching the movie at home instead of the sports bar (much more fun to watch a game with other fans). Leonard's victory (change of venue) should have been enough. Not to mention that since they were watching the game at home, they could put on their own 'half time show'.

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I think it's possible that Bev is the one parental figure in Penny's life who really approves of her. She says that she always wanted her fathers approval and I'm not sure about her own mother but I don't think she ever got that from either of them. So having the mother of the man she loves approve of her will give her a sense of that, even if it is a little selfish. And Beverly is so very critical of Leonard, so to be accepted as his girlfriend and future wife and mother of his children will probably mean a lot to her, and probably to Leonard - that his mom has accepted something in his life at last, to this level. 

 

Well, I am not one who thinks that Penny's father does not approve of her.  I don't think he approved of her boyfriends and careless lifestyle.  But, notice, he seems to have let her live her life and make her own mistakes.  He showed during his visit to her though that he was very worried about her.  That has to count for approval.  I would also point out that her father clearly approves of Leonard as husband material for his daughter and not just boyfriend material.  She should take some satisfaction from that.  She's picked her guy and her father approves of the choice thus approving of her.  Beverly on the other hand has never shown the depth of feeling for her children that Penny's father has.  Penny's father doesn't appear to have damaged her while Beverly has.  To me there is a big difference between the two.  Also, of the two, she seems to have already earned her father's approval in this matter so why care about a woman like Beverly?

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I think the latest episode is not a big deal. They would have sex anyway, so he is not taking advantage of her. But Penny's move was right. Leonard has to learn the limits of their relationship.

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For better or for worse, Beverly is Leonard's mommy and he loves her. He may not be able to stand her but he loves her. And, for all we know, she loves him too; she is just incapable of normally showing affection to anyone, especially him. When sober, that is. 

 

Penny having a good relationship with her is, in my eyes, a good thing. It was thanks to this bizarre sense of sisterhood that they bonded over tequila and got talking about "their" man's secretive attitude, which led to Leonard receiving a long awaited (and much deserved) maternal hug. I believe Penny might be able to accomplish much more by having Beverly's ear than by confronting her openly. It does not mean she will never go Junior Rodeo on Mommy Dearest's bottom; she very well might, if given proper cause. But I doubt it. 

Ultimately, Penny is probably better used as a bridge between Leonard and his mom than as a weapon.

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Well, I am not one who thinks that Penny's father does not approve of her.  I don't think he approved of her boyfriends and careless lifestyle.  But, notice, he seems to have let her live her life and make her own mistakes.  He showed during his visit to her though that he was very worried about her.  That has to count for approval.  I would also point out that her father clearly approves of Leonard as husband material for his daughter and not just boyfriend material.  She should take some satisfaction from that.  She's picked her guy and her father approves of the choice thus approving of her.  Beverly on the other hand has never shown the depth of feeling for her children that Penny's father has.  Penny's father doesn't appear to have damaged her while Beverly has.  To me there is a big difference between the two.  Also, of the two, she seems to have already earned her father's approval in this matter so why care about a woman like Beverly?

 

Oh he does now, I totally agree with what you've got there. But I think that, Bev's approval of her came first, and that's probably the first time she's had something like that. And knowing how harsh, critical and plain horrible Beverly can be, she probably takes pride in the fact that in her eyes, she is suitable for Leonard, despite the fact that she knows about her childhood and issues and stuff. 

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For better or for worse, Beverly is Leonard's mommy and he loves her. He may not be able to stand her but he loves her. And, for all we know, she loves him too; she is just incapable of normally showing affection to anyone, especially him. When sober, that is. 

 

Penny having a good relationship with her is, in my eyes, a good thing. It was thanks to this bizarre sense of sisterhood that they bonded over tequila and got talking about "their" man's secretive attitude, which led to Leonard receiving a long awaited (and much deserved) maternal hug. I believe Penny might be able to accomplish much more by having Beverly's ear than by confronting her openly. It does not mean she will never go Junior Rodeo on Mommy Dearest's bottom; she very well might, if given proper cause. But I doubt it. 

Ultimately, Penny is probably better used as a bridge between Leonard and his mom than as a weapon.

Only one problem with Penny going 'Junior Rodeo on Mommy Dearest's bottom'. Beverly might just like that (see ping pong paddle reference).

Edited by eirwinrommel
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Only one problem with Penny going 'Junior Rodeo on Mommy Dearest's bottom'. Beverly might just like that (see ping ping paddle reference).

We have now officially descended into the deepest, darkest pit of hell ;)

Edited by Chiara
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