Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[JonRS92]

Oh he does now, I totally agree with what you've got there. But I think that, Bev's approval of her came first, and that's probably the first time she's had something like that. And knowing how harsh, critical and plain horrible Beverly can be, she probably takes pride in the fact that in her eyes, she is suitable for Leonard, despite the fact that she knows about her childhood and issues and stuff. 

 

I see where you are coming from here.  I suppose it would be a point of pride if she was the only thing in Leonard's life that his mother approves of.  I guess I just don't think it is worth the effort especially given that I am not sure her approval will amount to anything in the long run.  Even if Penny wins that approval (while sober, not drunk) I still think she needs to be at Leonard's back when dealing with her which would make her approval almost a moot point.  Unless of course, Penny somehow manages to make Beverly change but I don't see that happening although anything is possible.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

We have now officially descended into the deepest, darkest pit of hell

Agreed!!!

 

I motion that no one ever be allowed to bring up "Ping pong paddles" ever again. Do I have a second.

[vasu]

Agreed!!!

 

I motion that no one ever be allowed to bring up "Ping pong paddles" ever again. Do I have a second.

[Chiara]

That escalated quickly

[Nogravitasatall]

I'm fine with the paddles, they don't really have a lot of weight... Oops, wrong forum

And Penny as a buffer is what I'd settle for. It very difficult to be reasonable with unreasonable people all the time. She can run interference. (interestingly in all the football codes I know, except for American, that's actually illegal. You are offside and are hit with a penalty).

[terriblewaitress]

Next time I'm whooping someones ass at ping pong I'm going to be plagued with Bev's words. *shudder* 

[JonRS92]

Next time I'm whooping someones ass at ping pong I'm going to be plagued with Bev's words. *shudder* 

 

Literally or figuratively?  Ok, I know that was uncalled for

[terriblewaitress]

Hahaha omg. Worst time to use that as a phrase for 'winning' ever. 

[SRAM]

Here is what I do not understand.  As some have said, it appears that Penny has somehow bonded with Beverly even if it is on shaky of ground.  Why?  Why bond with her at all?  I get all the reasons why Leonard puts up with her to the level he does.  She's his mother and no matter how much damage she'd have done in reality, fictional Leonard still has some love for her.  Fine.  But Leonard has shown in the past that he really wants nothing to do with her.  He fought against her first visit.  He's never called her for any advice even if Sheldon called her for him.  It was not Leonard's choice.  Now, granted, Leonard has at least tried with her when she has shown up but I think that is just because Leonard is a good guy who, despite not wanting to make the first move with her, will at least try and deal with her.  I don't get Penny dealing with her on any level.  She is very much in love with Leonard.  By this point in their relationship she has to see that Beverly is bad news for Leonard.  While I would agree that Leonard still tries for Beverly's approval, in the end, I don't think he's going to care if she approves of Penny or not.  Penny, for the most part, does not always seem to care what others think of her relationship with Leonard (at least not people who scoff at it).  Why would she care what Beverly thinks?  Given what she knows of the damage Beverly has done to Leonard, of the trauma to his childhood, I don't think she should care what Beverly thinks of her.  Leonard needs the exact opposite of his mother in his life; he does not need for his future fiance to bond with the woman who tormented his entire youth.  Leonard needs Penny on his side and I hope that soon she comes to this realization and backs him with Beverly instead of bonding with her.

I really think it goes back to that old saying, when you marry someone you also marry their family, so she is making best of it for him. Also Bev is a strong women and so is Penny, so I think she likes the challenge of dealing with her.

[JonRS92]

I really think it goes back to that old saying, when you marry someone you also marry their family, so she is making best of it for him. Also Bev is a strong women and so is Penny, so I think she likes the challenge of dealing with her.

 

In this case, I don't know that she'll be seeing that much of Leonard's family.  At least I seriously doubt Leonard is ever going to suggest any trips to see her in-laws.  I really hope that soon we get to meet Leonard's siblings and it will be interesting to see what kind of people they are.  As of right now though, I don't think there are going to be many Hofstadter family gatherings that she is going to be forced to attend

 

As for her taking on Beverly as a challenge...I did think of that.  I can see Penny looking at Beverly as not someone that she especially needs approval from, but just as a huge challenge to see if it can be done.  I still say that she needs to take Leonard into account here because I am not sure it is good for him for her to take on this task.  You know he'd never ask her to and I doubt he even wants her to.  I'd go so far as to say he'd discourage it. 

Edited October 12, 2013 by JonRS92

[3ku11]

In this case, I don't know that she'll be seeing that much of Leonard's family.  At least I seriously doubt Leonard is ever going to suggest any trips to see her in-laws.  I really hope that soon we get to meet Leonard's siblings and it will be interesting to see what kind of people they are.  As of right now though, I don't think there are going to be many Hofstadter family gatherings that she is going to be forced to attend

 

As for her taking on Beverly as a challenge...I did think of that.  I can see Penny looking at Beverly as not someone that she especially needs approval from, but just as a huge challenge to see if it can be done.  I still say that she needs to take Leonard into account here because I am not sure it is good for him for her to take on this task.  You know he'd never ask her to and I doubt he even wants her to.  I'd go so far as to say he'd discourage it. 

Get where your coming from but I remember Penny later on in their apartment realizied that Leonard was upset, and apoligized for buying the book. But I also thought it was funny Penny was making fun of Leonard haha, they may be in a stable relationship, but I love how Penny still poke's fun at Leonard. Beverley is going to be her mother in law one day most likely, knowing Penny she see's the best in everyone, and remember she bonded with Beverley back in S3, so she may want Leonard and Beverley to repair their relationship, she is a very trusting optimistic person, so give her the benefit of the doubt. But after all these year's their just maybe too much of a rift between Beverley and Leonard to mend. And I saw no problem with Beverley on skype, I mean if this was three season's ago Penny would go all hulk and dump Leonard or not speak to him for a while, I love the fact her natural response was to get even with Leonard not angry, that way the boat is settled and not rocked at all.

Edited October 12, 2013 by 3ku11

[JonRS92]

Get where your coming from but I remember Penny later on in their apartment realizied that Leonard was upset, and apoligized for buying the book. But I also thought it was funny Penny was making fun of Leonard haha, they may be in a stable relationship, but I love how Penny still poke's fun at Leonard. Beverley is going to be her mother in law one day most likely, knowing Penny she see's the best in everyone, and remember she bonded with Beverley back in S3, so she may want Leonard and Beverley to repair their relationship, she is a very trusting optimistic person, so give her the benefit of the doubt. But after all these year's their just maybe too much of a rift between Beverley and Leonard to mend. And I saw no problem with Beverley on skype, I mean if this was three season's ago Penny would go all hulk and dump Leonard or not speak to him for a while, I love the fact her natural response was to get even with Leonard not angry, that way the boat is settled and not rocked at all.

 

Oh, I realize that Penny apologized and then Leonard took things a bit too far in his playing the pity card.  I think there are some aspects of this relationship that still need worked out and that's normal.  Leonard has made great strides in learning how to deal with Penny's commitment issues but still seems deaf to her insecurities about her intelligence.  I think Penny's not getting how much Leonard hates thinking about his childhood is where Penny still is a bit deaf.  Leonard should have known last week to pick Penny and Penny should know by now not to even buy that book.  They'll get there though.

[Oldnavy]

If she continues with the psychology courses she might come to the conclusion that the best thing for their relationship is not for her to get approval from Beverly but to back Leonard against Beverly.

 

Did anyone else notice that she said the book was on the "Recommended Reading List" for her class, she didn't have to read it, it wasn't required, but she still bought a copy and at least started to read it. True part of that might be because she knew the author, but S5 and earlier Penny never would have read an academic book that wasn't required, and even early to mid S6 Penny probably wouldn't have. Either she really likes Psychology or she's taking her education more seriously.

I suspect that she is probably taking her education a little more seriously.  She mentioned during season 6 that she wanted to find something that she had a passion for.  She did realize that she had a passion for Leonard and her friends, but you have to wonder if she also looking to have some other kind of passion, something other than acting.  This does not mean that she ha given up on that dream, but I would suspect that he exposure to Leonard and Sheldon but more specifically to Bernie and Amy has motivated her to making something more of herself.  By this time in the show Penny is getting into her late 20's, she going to want to make some "adult decisions", plus she wants more than working at the Cheesecake factory and she seems to be getting tired of being seen as dumb because she has not finished her education. 

 

I think that we could see more growth in Penny in this area and psychology may be what catches her attention.  I am glad to see the writers adding some maturity and depth to Penny.  I am looking forward to seeing where all of this leads.

[3ku11]

I suspect that she is probably taking her education a little more seriously.  She mentioned during season 6 that she wanted to find something that she had a passion for.  She did realize that she had a passion for Leonard and her friends, but you have to wonder if she also looking to have some other kind of passion, something other than acting.  This does not mean that she ha given up on that dream, but I would suspect that he exposure to Leonard and Sheldon but more specifically to Bernie and Amy has motivated her to making something more of herself.  By this time in the show Penny is getting into her late 20's, she going to want to make some "adult decisions", plus she wants more than working at the Cheesecake factory and she seems to be getting tired of being seen as dumb because she has not finished her education. 

 

I think that we could see more growth in Penny in this area and psychology may be what catches her attention.  I am glad to see the writers adding some maturity and depth to Penny.  I am looking forward to seeing where all of this leads.

 

I agree as Penny used to define her happiness and success based on her idealistic dream's of becoming a movie star, that was whole intent of moving to Pasadena. But with now in S6 with her priorities changing, and realizing she is passionate about Leonard and all her friend's, her self actulization has now been de-constructed. So although this is still true, she is obviousley looking for some other kind of passion other then acting, like you said it's not like she has given up on acting, but with maturity come's wisdom and she know's she need's to bring more to the relationship, and with her acting career stunted she need's something to fall back on. Some other people have also said Psychology maybe after her ally, after all her influence went a long way to getting Raj to speak to women, her influence on Sheldon has clearly mace him more socially aware, and not as socially and emotionally stunted as he once was, he may of not made the progress he has made in his relationship with Amy if it wasen't for Penny, Howard would still arguably be single if it wasen't for Penny, she set them up. So I think Penny has a nack for people, but also now she is 27 she need's to be making adult decisions, and her lack of education as she get's older she probably want's to fix, and the fact she has been working at the Cheesecake Factory since Season One, she obviousley want's more out of life. So as she is maturing she is realizing she can do much better with her life, and too me that shows tremendous growth from the Penny in Season One.

Edited October 12, 2013 by 3ku11

[JonRS92]

I suspect that she is probably taking her education a little more seriously.  She mentioned during season 6 that she wanted to find something that she had a passion for.  She did realize that she had a passion for Leonard and her friends, but you have to wonder if she also looking to have some other kind of passion, something other than acting.  This does not mean that she ha given up on that dream, but I would suspect that he exposure to Leonard and Sheldon but more specifically to Bernie and Amy has motivated her to making something more of herself.  By this time in the show Penny is getting into her late 20's, she going to want to make some "adult decisions", plus she wants more than working at the Cheesecake factory and she seems to be getting tired of being seen as dumb because she has not finished her education. 

 

I think that we could see more growth in Penny in this area and psychology may be what catches her attention.  I am glad to see the writers adding some maturity and depth to Penny.  I am looking forward to seeing where all of this leads.

 

Also I watched an interview with Kaley (don't know how old it was) where she said she wants Penny to get a different job because she hates the Cheesecake Factory uniform.  Maybe the writers are going to give her a gift and Penny'll get a different job.

[hamerman55]

Some education in psychology would likely help her deal with the damage that Leonard sustained from Beverly. 

 

I realized something in the current episode. Penny is likely the only person to actually comfort Leonard when he feels bad. Beverly wouldn't, and I can't think of anyone in Leonard's life that actually cared enough about him to do so. He's had some fairly superficial relationships with girls, and the guys are too socially clueless to really help. Sheldon actually comes the closest, as in "The Middle Earth Paradigm", but he so clearly was uncomfortable with doing so. He cared enough to try, but was just bad at it. Penny actually does the things he needs when he honestly has problems, which was the case early in the episode. I can imagine that knowing his girlfriend is reading that book had to be very emasculating and generally embarrassing. Penny wasn't just offering sex, she was offering real physical comfort (hugging, and such). I suspect that this is the very first time that Leonard has had that in his life. The fact that he didn't really know how to handle it reflects his lack of exposure to someone honestly trying to make him feel better. Penny has always done that for him, and is likely a large part of the attraction. The sex is probably fabulous, but the intimacy and caring likely means far more.

 

I've also had my assessment of Howard confirmed. He's a spineless weasel. Talk about violating the "bro code". Another plus for Leonard is that I cannot recall a single time he has betrayed his friends, while I can recall many times that Sheldon, Howard and Raj have done so. Leonard truly is the only one that has any honor. 

[Chiara]

I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post so I only quote this bit : 

 

I've also had my assessment of Howard confirmed. He's a spineless weasel. Talk about violating the "bro code". Another plus for Leonard is that I cannot recall a single time he has betrayed his friends, while I can recall many times that Sheldon, Howard and Raj have done so. Leonard truly is the only one that has any honor. 

Leonard is a most excellent friend but he has shown he was not opposed to disregarding the "bro code" when necessary : he slept with Raj's sister even though he knew Raj did not want it to happen; he slept with Priya even though he had a deal with Howard about not hitting on her; and he went behind Sheldon's back to give Penny Mary's phone number. 

 

What Leonard was doing in The Raiders Minimization was wrong (he even admitted it) so he could not demand his friend to cover for him. Similarly, Raj's expectation of control over whom his sister slept with was utterly ridiculous so no man on Earth, Leonard included, was duty bound to abide by Dr Koothrappali's wishes; and Howard and Leonard had no right to impose some form of selective embargo on Priya's sexuality and/or romantic life without consulting her so their pinky-sworn "pact" was null and void. As for Dr Hofstadter giving Penny Sheldon's kryptonite, it was a sound decision based on a justifiable desire to put an end to the madness. 

 

With all due respect, any breach of the "bro code" is a good thing in my eyes. Loyalty to one's friends is a fantastic and very respectable bound indeed, as long as it does not contradict the basic rules of logic and/or decency. But the "bro code", whose first article is "Bros before Hoes"... I am sorry to say but that is, in Beverly's immortal word, "yikes" (not in a good way). And no amount of Neil Patrick Harris loveliness can change that

 

PS For the sake of clarity and impartiality, allow me to add that if there is such a thing as the "sis code" and its opening line is something like "Chicks before Pr*cks", it is just as brain-meltingly "yikes" (still not in a good way). 

Edited October 12, 2013 by Chiara

[Chrismo]

I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post so I only quote this bit : 

 

Leonard is a most excellent friend but he has shown he was not opposed to disregarding the "bro code" when necessary : he slept wth Raj's sister even though he knew Raj did not want it to happen; he slept with Priya even though he had a deal with Howard about not hitting on her; and he went behind Sheldon's back to give Penny Mary's phone number. 

 

What Leonard was doing in The Raiders Minimization was wrong (he even admitted it) so he could not demand his friend to cover for him. Similarly, Raj's expectation of control over whom his sister slept with was utterly ridiculous so no man on Earth, Leonard included, was duty bound to abide by Dr Koothrappali's wishes; and Howard and Leonard had no right to impose some form of selective embargo on Priya's sexuality and/or romantic life without consulting her so their pinky-sworn "pact" was null and void. As for Dr Hofstadter giving Penny Sheldon's kryptonite, it was a sound decision based on a justifiable desire to put an end to the madness. 

 

With all due respect, any breach of the "bro code" is a good thing in my eyes. Loyalty to one's friends is a fantastic and very respectable bound indeed, as long as it does not contradict the basic rules of logic and/or decency.

I do agree with most of what you said. To me though the Leonard/Priya relationship never should of happened. In that case Leonard and Priya should of known better. It just causes an awkward situation for the friend/sibling(Raj). Ironically though people seem to be more upset with Raj/Penny than Leonard/Priya. That's something I never understood.

[Chiara]

I do agree with most of what you said. To me though the Leonard/Priya relationship never should of happened. In that case Leonard and Priya should of known better. It just causes an awkward situation for the friend/sibling(Raj). Ironically though people seem to be more upset with Raj/Penny than Leonard/Priya. That's something I never understood.

The Leonard/Priya relationship should indeed never have happened for they could not have been more ill-suited for each other. In that regard, it was a mistake. However, it was Leonard's and Priya's right to make that mistake, regardless of Raj's feelings about the whole thing. And I believe the same logic applies to the Raj/Penny hookup : it was a stupid mistake both participants had the right to make, independently of Leonard. 

 

As for the difference in the fans' reactions to both events, well, Leonard is the hero and Penny is not so...

But it is all behind them now : Raj and Leonard are great friends, Penny and Raj like and support each other very much, Leonard and Penny are as solid as they have ever been. It is all good !

[Nogravitasatall]

I do agree with most of what you said. To me though the Leonard/Priya relationship never should of happened. In that case Leonard and Priya should of known better. It just causes an awkward situation for the friend/sibling(Raj). Ironically though people seem to be more upset with Raj/Penny than Leonard/Priya. That's something I never understood.

My take is it's because brothers have no say in who their sisters date. And vice versa. But that's just me. And Penny and Raj were free agents.

And Howard dropped Leonard in it, for no good reason than cowardice in the face of Bernadette. He folded like a wet paper towel. He's definitely due a good round of table tennis.

[Chrismo]

My take is it's because brothers have no say in who their sisters date. And vice versa. But that's just me.

I was the Leonard once in the Leonard/Raj/Priya triangle once. It didn't end well.

[ArmyGirl]

I was the Leonard once in the Leonard/Raj/Priya triangle once. It didn't end well.

 

But you had the right to try even if it turned out bad.  Family members only have the right to voice their opinion not dictate who you can and can't be with. 

[Nogravitasatall]

I was the Leonard once in the Leonard/Raj/Priya triangle once. It didn't end well.

I'm sorry it ended badly for you. I have some idea about family pressures but my case is slightly different, though it lasted five years. And in fiction it went ok for Chandler and Monica. I'm not going to say its a rule, is all. Call me romantic but love conquers all - especially in fiction, if they choose to write it that way.

[Chrismo]

But you had the right to try even if it turned out bad.  Family members only have the right to voice their opinion not dictate who you can and can't be with. 

 

I'm sorry it ended badly for you. I have some idea about family pressures but my case is slightly different, though it lasted five years. And in fiction it went ok for Chandler and Monica. I'm not going to say its a rule, is all. Call me romantic but love conquers all - especially in fiction, if they choose to write it that way.

I understand what your both saying. I'm not even really a Raj fan but I do see his POV.

[hamerman55]

@chiara, I think that "bro code" in retrospect was the wrong term to use, as it implies a broader set of urban rules that I don't subscribe to. I was thinking more that he doesn't rat out his friends to save his own hide. In "The Egg Salad Equivalency", Sheldon threw Howard, Raj and Leonard under the bus to attempt to divert Ms. Davis from his own transgressions. Later in the same episode, Raj rats out Howard, his best bud, to divert Ms. Davis from the alcohol on his breath. In the most recent episode, Howard rats out Leonard to Bernie to try and excuse his attempts at manipulation. I can't think of a single time that Leonard has used any other the other guys as a figurative or literal human shield.

We've two examples where one or more of they guys tried to control their sisters - Sheldon with Missy ("pimping her out for cheese" is one of my favorite lines) and Raj with Priya. Sheldon really didn't object to any of the guys having a relationship with Missy, he just wanted to preserve his "special" genetic legacy. Raj was simply being racist. His objections were less about any of the guys having a relationship with his sister. Rather, he objects to her have having any dealings with a man who is not Indian of suitable caste.

Generally, the guys respect no rules when it comes to getting sex. Raj certainly had no qualms about sleeping with Penny when he had the chance, even when she was blackout drunk. And quite frankly, before Bernie, Howard would have slept Leonard's mother or sister if he had the chance. He was that much of a horndog, and had no standards that I could see. Leonard appeared to have snaked Dr. Stephanie from Howard, but Howard had no chance with her. By any "bro code" I know of, Stephanie was fair game in that case. Sheldon really doesn't figure into this as he is still essentially asexual.

Leonard giving Penny Sheldon's mother's phone number was entirely justified, as Sheldon was being ridiculous and leaning toward out of control. There is a big difference between tying up the washing machines on a Saturday night to inconvenience Sheldon and his OCD, and Sheldon throwing her clothes up on telephone wires. Sheldon has no line that he won't cross. Leonard didn't betray Sheldon to save himself from something that Leonard had done wrong, he was effectively correcting Sheldon for Sheldon doing something wrong.

So I guess my point is that Leonard has never involved one of the others in the group to keep himself out of trouble. He's not above drawing sympathy to himself, however. It is only this recent episode where he actually got real sympathy.

On a different note, after rewatching the recent episode, I must restate that I do not like the way they Skype Beverley in. This is the second time that they've used to her to kick Leonard in the teeth, without the others having to suffer too. While the advice she gave him in "The Skank Reflex" was correct, it was cruelly done. The same occurred here. Beverly simply hurt Leonard. While it might be therapeutic for Leonard to realize that he actually witnessed the paddle event, and didn't dream it, it didn't look to me that Beverly was doing this to help Leonard. She was punishing him by messing with his head.