Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[JonRS92]

He prematurely ejaculated when she was handling his penis to roll on the condom so they only engaged in foreplay not sex. This is I what tell my kids when they ask. Lol. Lucky they are are in their teens when they think to ask. Heheheh

 

Penny got really, really drunk after admitting to Raj that she regretted breaking up with Leonard and that she wouldn't sleep with Raj because they were friends then proceeded to try and sleep with Raj.  Then what Nogravitasatall said

[Martin Pollard]

Thank you MJPollard ---- I thought for minute I was the only one that saw it play out on screen.  And no it's not that big of a stretch in believing Raj knew his sister was going back to India and didn't tell anyone.

 

Particularly since Raj never wanted Leonard to hook up with his sister in the first place. He could easily have seen this as the big chance to split them up for good, thus he decided to keep his mouth shut about it. He might also have suspected that Priya would have taken the opportunity to cheat on Leonard while she was back home, given her distance from Leonard and her proximity to her ex-boyfriend (and the fact that Priya's ethics seem to be completely missing, or at least very, very flexible).

[hamerman55]

@Tensor and @oldnavy, I think the reason we got diverted onto this is partly my fault, even though I participated in the analysis the the Leonard/Priya/Raj/Penny thing when it came up last season. I apologize for chewing old soup, to some extent.

I think the main issue was who can Leonard really trust and rely on. It is clear to me that the only person that Leonard can trust is Penny. Raj is evil, Howard is spineless and Sheldon is clueless. Sheldon is the next closest to Leonard, and I believe is truly his friend. It is just that he doesn't really know how to do this, and he's been proven a cward. He has even admitted it (see The Spoiler Alert Segmentation). There are some new people on the forum too, and I've fielded a couple of PMs about some of these issues, too. Even though I just joined last fall, some seem to think I'm a good resource for PM question. I'm happy to answer these to the best of my ability, BTW.

Raj sleeping with Penny is a very sore point with me, unfortunately, and I gave into venting a bit. The recent episode sort of spiraled into a local minima, as Penny and Leonard are negotiating their relationship nicely.

Several funny things. First, the board seems to have merged two separate posts of mine, coming back to back. Interesting.

Second, it seemed like both Leonard and Howard weren't really exploiting things to get more sex. Leonard was trying to either get out of something he didn't want to do, or, then shades of Beverly, experimented to see how far he could push Penny to doing something that even he found boring. Howard wanted to, as usual, evade household chores.

The lesson Leonard learned (I hope!) is that Penny will do pretty much anything for him if he is being honest. He's a lucky man.

[Chrismo]

But going back to India didn't split them up. In the first episode of season 5 when Sheldon mentioned to Leonard about how does it feel to have a dear friend sleep with the woman you use to love where you lay your head at night (paraphrasing) Leonard was mad. Raj asked him why do you care you're dating my sister. I guess he could have known Priya was going back to India but he obviously seem to think they were still a couple.

[JonRS92]

@Tensor and @oldnavy, I think the reason we got diverted onto this is partly my fault, even though I participated in the analysis the the Leonard/Priya/Raj/Penny thing when it came up last season. I apologize for chewing old soup, to some extent.

I think the main issue was who can Leonard really trust and rely on. It is clear to me that the only person that Leonard can trust is Penny. Raj is evil, Howard is spineless and Sheldon is clueless. Sheldon is the next closest to Leonard, and I believe is truly his friend. It is just that he doesn't really know how to do this, and he's been proven a cward. He has even admitted it (see The Spoiler Alert Segmentation). There are some new people on the forum too, and I've fielded a couple of PMs about some of these issues, too. Even though I just joined last fall, some seem to think I'm a good resource for PM question. I'm happy to answer these to the best of my ability, BTW.

Raj sleeping with Penny is a very sore point with me, unfortunately, and I gave into venting a bit. The recent episode sort of spiraled into a local minima, as Penny and Leonard are negotiating their relationship nicely.

Several funny things. First, the board seems to have merged two separate posts of mine, coming back to back. Interesting.

Second, it seemed like both Leonard and Howard weren't really exploiting things to get more sex. Leonard was trying to either get out of something he didn't want to do, or, then shades of Beverly, experimented to see how far he could push Penny to doing something that even he found boring. Howard wanted to, as usual, evade household chores.

The lesson Leonard learned (I hope!) is that Penny will do pretty much anything for him if he is being honest. He's a lucky man.

 

I think you are right regarding who Leonard can trust.  I'd say the list, in order of most trust, would go something like this: Penny, Sheldon, Amy, Howard, Bernie, and Raj (I might actually move Raj ahead of Howard and Bernie at this point.).  For such a tight group of friends, there is remarkable lack of any loyalty between them.  I suppose this is just for added comedic effect rather than real nefarious attitudes.

But going back to India didn't split them up. In the first episode of season 5 when Sheldon mentioned to Leonard about how does it feel to have a dear friend sleep with the woman you use to love where you lay your head at night (paraphrasing) Leonard was mad. Raj asked him why do you care you're dating my sister. I guess he could have known Priya was going back to India but he obviously seem to think they were still a couple.

 

You might be right and that is definitely best-case scenario.  Here is what you need to ask yourself though.  For Raj's point of view, at the time he made his ill-considered choice, it was more likely that Leonard and Priya were going to break up than to stay together.  Now ask yourself, if Raj had been a good friend to Penny and Leonard and told Penny about what was coming could he have helped Penny and Leonard get back together?  I think he could have.

[Tensor]

@Tensor and @oldnavy, I think the reason we got diverted onto this is partly my fault, even though I participated in the analysis the the Leonard/Priya/Raj/Penny thing when it came up last season. I apologize for chewing old soup, to some extent.

I wasn't blaming anyone, just noting that we seem to have a lot of new people who weren't here the last time we went round and round with this.

 

Several funny things. First, the board seems to have merged two separate posts of mine, coming back to back. Interesting.

That will happen if you try to make another post within 10 minutes of your last one in the thread. You can go to another thread and post, but if you try to post in the same thread, within ten minutes, it adds it to your last post. When I was setting up the taping reports, I had to move between seasons to avoid that.

[Tensor]

Probably because the writers were in full-on back-pedaling mode.

Yeah, not so much. If they were in full backpedal mode, they would have had nothing at all happen. Just say they both happen to fall asleep before anything happened. That wasn't what the writers did. Not to mention that the writers showed Leonard had already made up his mind that he had no right to say anything. If so, he wouldn't have played paintball with Raj, he would have gave Raj a hard time about it, Raj wouldn't have been at the apartment afterward, he would have said something after Raj got up to speak when Penny came in, and wouldn't have told Penny she could stay. Leonard didn't know of Penny's declaration to Raj, but we did. That is a big part of Leonard's reaction as it makes a lot of sense if he didn't know about Penny's confessions, it doesn't make any sense if he did know about them.

[Chrismo]

 

 

You might be right and that is definitely best-case scenario.  Here is what you need to ask yourself though.  For Raj's point of view, at the time he made his ill-considered choice, it was more likely that Leonard and Priya were going to break up than to stay together.  Now ask yourself, if Raj had been a good friend to Penny and Leonard and told Penny about what was coming could he have helped Penny and Leonard get back together?  I think he could have.

But Leonard and Priya didn't break up until the Alice episode. The "final straw" occurred when Priya's parents called saying that they couldn't wait for her to get back to India and Leonard heard that. Raj was staying with Sheldon at that point.. In your scenerio Raj should have told Penny. (He did take advantage of her.) But I don't know what good that knowledge would have done Penny.

[JonRS92]

Yeah, not so much. If they were in full backpedal mode, they would have had nothing at all happen. Just say they both happen to fall asleep before anything happened. That wasn't what the writers did. Not to mention that the writers showed Leonard had already made up his mind that he had no right to say anything. If so, he wouldn't have played paintball with Raj, he would have gave Raj a hard time about it, Raj wouldn't have been at the apartment afterward, he would have said something after Raj got up to speak when Penny came in, and wouldn't have told Penny she could stay. Leonard didn't know of Penny's declaration to Raj, but we did. That is a big part of Leonard's reaction as it makes a lot of sense if he didn't know about Penny's confessions, it doesn't make any sense if he did know about them.

 

You are pointing out things I had had a problem with when I first saw them and still do now.  I get all of Leonard's reactions.  They were fine.  What wasn't fine was Penny's.  Penny should have been all over Raj for taking advantage.  She told him she didn't want to sleep with him.  I know you and I have gone over this before in the other thread about Penny's drinking so we don't need to go all into that again.  I think a realistic response from Penny would have been anger at Raj, but she pretty much assumed all of the responsibility just because she was drunk.  As for the writers not being in backpedal mode.  I don't think it would have been very realistic for them to have just had them fall asleep.  They are not going to get naked in bed together to just sleep.  So the intent to have sex was always going to be there so they had to deal with it.  I think they dealt with it by trying to dial the whole thing back.  No sex, no problem.  But as you have also pointed out before, there is a problem because Penny's drunken intent was to sleep with him.  That he was unable to perform doesn't mean much.  Also, I never meant to imply that Leonard knew anything about Penny's declarations.  The audience did and Raj did which is why, I think, there is so much anger at what happened between the two.

 

But Leonard and Priya didn't break up until the Alice episode. The "final straw" occurred when Priya's parents called saying that they couldn't wait for her to get back to India and Leonard heard that. Raj was staying with Sheldon at that point.. In your scenerio Raj should have told Penny. (He did take advantage of her.) But I don't know what good that knowledge would have done Penny.

 

Well the Alice episode was after the whole thing with Priya's parents.  Maybe nothing happens with Penny right away if Raj does the honorable thing, but they never would have ended up in bed together if he done the right thing.  And who knows, maybe Leonard and Priya get back together sooner or maybe they don't, but Raj would have kept his honor.  Also, if he tells Leonard what Penny said, I don't think Leonard goes back to Priya and tries the long distance thing.  Hypothetical notions aside, Raj should have done the right thing no matter the outcome.

[Tensor]

As for the writers not being in backpedal mode.  I don't think it would have been very realistic for them to have just had them fall asleep.  They are not going to get naked in bed together to just sleep.  So the intent to have sex was always going to be there so they had to deal with it.  I think they dealt with it by trying to dial the whole thing back.  No sex, no problem.

Believable doesn't matter in full backpedal mode. And, besides, she didn't remember anything that happened, which means Penny could have easily passed out after getting undressed, but before anything happening. That is believable. But they didn't go with that, they went with something, but not everything happening. That is hardly full backpedal.

 

But as you have also pointed out before, there is a problem because Penny's drunken intent was to sleep with him.  That he was unable to perform doesn't mean much.  Also, I never meant to imply that Leonard knew anything about Penny's declarations.  The audience did and Raj did which is why, I think, there is so much anger at what happened between the two.

I know there are others here who aren't, like me, as upset with this situation. I realize it was a simple plot device; How do you keep Leonard and Penny apart with Priya going back to India. Not to mention it made for a great situation for the end of a season finale. It kept a lot of buzz going on through the summer.

[JonRS92]

Believable doesn't matter in full backpedal mode. And, besides, she didn't remember anything that happened, which means Penny could have easily passed out after getting undressed, but before anything happening. That is believable. But they didn't go with that, they went with something, but not everything happening. That is hardly full backpedal.

Not full backpedal, no. How do you explain them both being in bed, naked, together? They could have had her just pass out, but you still have Raj in the room and naked with her. So the implied intent to have sex is still there no matter what. I don't think it changes the situation at all. The only option the writers had left to them at that point was either having her pass out or having Raj not be able to hold up (so to speak). They chose the latter because maybe they were still trying to milk some laughs out of the whole thing. You may know better than I do about intent. Do you think that the writers had intended for them to sleep together until they got the negative reaction to it from die-hard Lenny fans or do you think it played out exactly as they intended it to?

 

I know there are others here who aren't, like me, as upset with this situation. I realize it was a simple plot device; How do you keep Leonard and Penny apart with Priya going back to India. Not to mention it made for a great situation for the end of a season finale. It kept a lot of buzz going on through the summer.

Do you think they needed to go to such extremes for what amounted to just 13 episodes of extended break up? They were back together half a season after this incident so did they really need to stretch that far to keep them apart?

Edited October 13, 2013 by JonRS92

[Nogravitasatall]

They were competing against "we were on a break". This was a totally novel approach to the problem, which I have always applauded. It worked really well for making people care, as opposed to the "Friends" Ross and Rachel total lameness. Imo.

Three seasons on and we still fixate. Hehehe.

[Chrismo]

 

Do you think they needed to go to such extremes for what amounted to just 13 episodes of extended break up? They were back together half a season after this incident so did they really need to stretch that far to keep them apart?

Because I think the plan was to get L/P back together  in the 100th eposode. Having Priya moving back to India and breaking up with Leonard would have put L/P back together too soon. Raj/Penny sleeping together helped prevent that. Being A cliffhanger at the end of season was an added bonus.  When they wanted Leonard to break up with Priya, Penny couldn't be the cause. That where Alice came in. Him kissing Alice was no big deal. If it had been Penny that's a whole another story. Ultimately Leonard told Priya about Alice because he was guilty and Priya told him she slept with her ex-boyfriend. Obviously that made Priya the ultimate villain which made it easier on everyone. At least that's my take on it.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Chrismo

[Tensor]

Not full backpedal, no. How do you explain them both being in bed, naked, together? They could have had her just pass out, but you still have Raj in the room and naked with her. So the implied intent to have sex is still there no matter what. I don't think it changes the situation at all. The only option the writers had left to them at that point was either having her pass out or having Raj not be able to hold up (so to speak). They chose the latter because maybe they were still trying to milk some laughs out of the whole thing.

It may not change anything for you, but there are plenty of people who wouldn't have had the heavy judgement that goes with the any actual sex. And, again, don't look at it in isolation. It was the cliffhanger on the last episode of the season. It may have been clumsy, it may have been shocking, but the fact that people are still talking about it shows how well that plot device worked.

 

You may know better than I do about intent. Do you think that the writers had intended for them to sleep together until they got the negative reaction to it from die-hard Lenny fans or do you think it played out exactly as they intended it to?

 

From what was said at Comic-Con that year, I don't think that they had an idea of what would happen after the finale until they started talking about plots and scripts in July and unless one of the writers writes a tell all book, were not likely to know. I also don't think that the reaction had anything to do with what they finally decided.

 

Do you think they needed to go to such extremes for what amounted to just 13 episodes of extended break up? They were back together half a season after this incident so did they really need to stretch that far to keep them apart?

Two things, One, they didn't know how long the breakup was going to be. These guys sometimes have trouble looking three episodes into the future, much less thirteen and what amounted to 9 months of real time. Two, Priya was leaving, Penny and Leonard are close friends, they wanted to keep the Priya-Leonard relationship together, which if Penny is around could be a problem. If you think otherwise, remember that Raj doesn't like Leonard dating Priya, and knows Penny wants to get back with him. How long before he tells Leonard or before Penny confesses her feelings to Leonard? With this, they don't have to worry about that.

They were competing against "we were on a break". This was a totally novel approach to the problem, which I have always applauded. It worked really well for making people care, as opposed to the "Friends" Ross and Rachel total lameness. Imo.

Three seasons on and we still fixate. Hehehe.

That last line is very similar to a comment in my post. Hmmmmmm, something about minds and thinking alike. I'm probably one of very few Leonard-Peny supporters who likes season four, it's actually my favorite season.

[3ku11]

People forget 3 episode's after Penny was helping Raj get a girlfriend, then Raj after breaking up with his GF who was using him for his money, thought Penny was hitting on him lol so it was obviousley debunked and settled with pretty soon. It's funny because early on Leonard was eating and hanging out with Raj and the group like nothing had changed, because really nothing did. I remember in the end of premiere of S5 Penny appologized for her action's, and everyone accepted it. I think the reason why fans of the show still have a sore spot with The Penny/Raj thing is more the writer's throwing the show under a bus just for shock value and a plot device. If Raj made a more sensible decision and was considering the consequences regardless of how drunk he was, and diddn't take advantage of Penny's emotional state and drunken state, and did the right thing would of Penny and Leonard got back together any faster? Or would of Leonard and Priya broken up any faster? That's if Raj told Leonard about Priya going back to India? This is all if's and but's, the reality of the situation the writer's went down that direction, and through Penny and her relationship with Leonard arguably under a bus because of a shock value for the finalie, so their would be buzz and hype surrounding Season 5 and how they would deal with it.

 

At the end of the day the writer's are in the buisness of making the show the best it possibliy can be, and sometimes stuff like this can get rating's. As we know Penny and Raj diddn't actually go all the way, Raj prematurely ejaculated, and it is implied shortly after Penny passes out, not that this changes the act of what occured, but the variable's and what actually happened before, during, and after go a long way in explaining why Penny was in that position in the first place. To this day Penny still has a vague blurry recollection of what occured, I remember she had to ask Raj who interestinly had a very clear recollection of the event's, so you could argue after drinking so much Raj took advantage of not Penny but the situation, I mean the fact that Penny woke up the next morning with no recollection and and had no idea who was next to her, say's it all. So I think after Raj you know what, he even said "And that's all she wrote", Penny passed out and it was pretty much over then, they just happened to wake up the next morning in the same bed. The whole situation was a result of a bad year for Penny emotionally, and combine alcahal in the mix she made really bad decisions, but the outcome could of turned out a lot better for Penny who ended up blaming herself not Raj, if Raj showed a bit more responsiblity in his action's, and actually thought about the consequences and showed some common courtsey to Leonard, but I think in the moment being drunk he may of wanted to get back at Leonard for dating his sister and so on, and the fact that Penny also had a very common interest in disliking Priya, so you could argue she found comfort in someone who detest's Leonard and Priya's relationship as much as her, but the fact Penny said she woulden't sleep with Raj because they are freind's, I'll say 75% is on Raj's fault, he should of taken care of Penny and put her to "bed" lol if you get my point but he diddn't.

 

End of the day it was three season's ago, Penny had made tremendous growth since then, it was a one time thing under very unique circumstances that should of never happened, but give the writer's and Penny the benefit of the doubt, they really tested the waters with that plot device, which was more for shock value then having any lasting effect on the show or the characters's, I mean the writer's delt with it really well it could of potentially destroyed the show but it diddn't, they learnt their lesson.

[JonRS92]

Because I think the plan was to get L/P back together  in the 100th eposode. Having Priya moving back to India and breaking up with Leonard would have put L/P back together too soon. Raj/Penny sleeping together helped prevent that. Being A cliffhanger at the end of season was an added bonus.  When they wanted Leonard to break up with Priya, Penny couldn't be the cause. That where Alice came in. Him kissing Alice was no big deal. If it had been Penny that's a whole another story. Ultimately Leonard told Priya about Alice because he was guilty and Priya told him she slept with her ex-boyfriend. Obviously that made Priya the ultimate villain which made it easier on everyone. At least that's my take on it.

 

It's all water under the bridge now, but I would have handled it all differently.  They are the writers, they can keep Leonard and Penny apart as long as they want to using whatever plot they want to.  Here is what I would have done.  Raj does not take advantage of Penny who could have still had her foggy memory.  Maybe she doesn't remember saying anything to Raj at all.  Maybe Raj could have told her what she said and she makes Raj swear not to say a word to Leonard.  Everything else could stay the same.  There would have been no need to alter any of the Leonard/Priya plot.

 

It may not change anything for you, but there are plenty of people who wouldn't have had the heavy judgement that goes with the any actual sex. And, again, don't look at it in isolation. It was the cliffhanger on the last episode of the season. It may have been clumsy, it may have been shocking, but the fact that people are still talking about it shows how well that plot device worked.

Two things, One, they didn't know how long the breakup was going to be. These guys sometimes have trouble looking three episodes into the future, much less thirteen and what amounted to 9 months of real time. Two, Priya was leaving, Penny and Leonard are close friends, they wanted to keep the Priya-Leonard relationship together, which if Penny is around could be a problem. If you think otherwise, remember that Raj doesn't like Leonard dating Priya, and knows Penny wants to get back with him. How long before he tells Leonard or before Penny confesses her feelings to Leonard? With this, they don't have to worry about that.

That last line is very similar to a comment in my post. Hmmmmmm, something about minds and thinking alike. I'm probably one of very few Leonard-Peny supporters who likes season four, it's actually my favorite season.

 

It does change it a bit for me.  I would have thought you'd feel the same way since in your fanfic you have Penny basically coming to the same conclusion, that it was her intent that still mattered, not the end result as much.

 

As for keeping Leonard and Priya together and not having Penny be an issue, I think that my idea above might have worked okay.

[Tensor]

It does change it a bit for me.  I would have thought you'd feel the same way since in your fanfic you have Penny basically coming to the same conclusion, that it was her intent that still mattered, not the end result as much.

Remember, a lot of stuff that is in the fic is not discussed or covered in the show. Yes, they keep Penny and Leonard apart, but why? Leonard forgave Penny. So why is there a problem. Penny coming to the conclusion that there was intent and then not forgiving herself, along with thinking she screwed up any chance of a relationship with Leonard explains it. But, it is not specifically addressed in the show. That's basically why I wrote my fic, to cover that stuff that in some shape or form had to happen to get where they are today.

 

As for keeping Leonard and Priya together and not having Penny be an issue, I think that my idea above might have worked okay.

It may have, but it might not have been as funny and it may have made a worse cliffhanger.

[SRAM]

If after Penny told Raj she screwed up, Leonard was a great guy and she shouldn't have broken up with him, if Raj hated Priya and Leonard dating and was Leonard and Penny's friend, his telling her what was happening would have had a huge input in getting them back together faster. He could have just told her, 'Priya is going back to India and my parents will give her hell because Leonard is white so their relationship is probably going to be over soon, if you are wanting to be around when it ends'. But the writers goal was to stall, shock and create controversy over the summer.

[JonRS92]

Remember, a lot of stuff that is in the fic is not discussed or covered in the show. Yes, they keep Penny and Leonard apart, but why? Leonard forgave Penny. So why is there a problem. Penny coming to the conclusion that there was intent and then not forgiving herself, along with thinking she screwed up any chance of a relationship with Leonard explains it. But, it is not specifically addressed in the show. That's basically why I wrote my fic, to cover that stuff that in some shape or form had to happen to get where they are today.

I know that stuff wasn't in the show, I just thought maybe you might agree with me that the intent did matter. As for Leonard forgiving Penny, I've got no issue with that. 

 

It may have, but it might not have been as funny and it may have made a worse cliffhanger.

Very true

[arash]

He prematurely ejaculated when she was handling his penis to roll on the condom so they only engaged in foreplay not sex. This is I what tell my kids when they ask. Lol. Lucky they are are in their teens when they think to ask. Heheheh

omg!! LoL

i didn't get it because that time i was watching the serie with subtitle and that subtitle was crap!!

so they didn't have sex!!

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4

[SRAM]

omg!! LoL

i didn't get it because that time i was watching the serie with subtitle and that subtitle was crap!!

so they didn't have sex!!

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4

 

 

The didn't have coitus/intercourse, as to sex, that depends on how you define sex.

[fixitmr]

I don't care why who or what ... raj was a real dick head .... he went after PENNY after she told him she still wanted Leonard ... friends don't do this ... Raj should have told Penny to go home at that point and not continue drinking ... unwritten law you don't mess with a friends GIRL  .... and for all intents she (Penny) was still (Leonard's) GIRL ... because Penny wanted it this way ...

[SRAM]

I don't care why who or what ... raj was a real dick head .... he went after PENNY after she told him she still wanted Leonard ... friends don't do this ... Raj should have told Penny to go home at that point and not continue drinking ... unwritten law you don't mess with a friends GIRL  .... and for all intents she (Penny) was still (Leonard's) GIRL ... because Penny wanted it this way ...

 

Oh I so agree with you and I think that is why you see Leonard being much more mad at Raj then Penny.  However here is the thing, as you know guys are different from girls, guys who are real friends understand the unwritten law you reference, the 'BRO CODE'.  Girls steal each others boyfriends all the time so they don't understand, it is sort of the same way we don't understand why they cry so much when they watch the "Notebook". 

 

You should read the romantic Shenny stories from this summer, they are written by girls and they have Sheldon hitting on Penny the first week Leonard is gone.  They don't understand that a true friend won't do that and will even protect your girlfriend from other guys, cause you are their friend.  Girls don't really get that, I think they are hardwired to seek the best mate they can get, so anything goes.

 

Bottom line, Raj was a dick and he violated the code.  In real life Leonard probably would have decked him.

Edited October 13, 2013 by SRAM

[Tensor]

I know that stuff wasn't in the show, I just thought maybe you might agree with me that the intent did matter. As for Leonard forgiving Penny, I've got no issue with that.

I figured you knew. But, I'm quite sure there are more people who will read this than will read my Fan Fic, so I wanted to make sure that was out there for those posters.

[Nogravitasatall]

The didn't have coitus/intercourse, as to sex, that depends on how you define sex.

I'm going to try to be clinically correct here, in my clinical ignorance. They did not have sex. They were intimate. But my view is, whatever happened, they all got past it. And I agree Raj is always sketchy. He is loved by some, but I have to stretch sometimes to feel that love. He's a sad puppy, and has bitten people who meant him well.

I know there is room for argument, but I'll step back from that one. I do know that I was gobsmacked when I saw the episode and I was astounded they went there. S4 was terrific, because Leonard and Penny got past the issue of just being convenient to each other. They really do want to be together.