Spoilers Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

[arash]

raj was wrong!penny told him that she f**ked up by breaking up with leonard ! and i think he knew what he was doing as he knew exactly what happened between them with details! so being drunk is not a good excuse for doing that!!and after all i myself don't like date someone who my friend used to date with! it's not cool! in season 2 leonard kind of did this mistake too when he stole that dr from howard!but that seemed more innocent to me! Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 4

Edited October 15, 2013 by arash

[I.H.S.F.C.]

I have plenty of of friends who seem completely coherent when drinking and have zero recollection the next day.  On the flip-side, I have friends who get blackout drunk and remember every detail from the night before up until they passed out.  Saying Raj took advantage of Penny is 100% speculation.  And most people's opinions on the matter seem to be clouded by the fact that they like Penny and don't like Raj.  I like both characters, but I have a feeling Penny knew exactly what she was doing.  Just like she knew what she was doing what she hooked up with Leonard after the Zach date.  Given how Penny's character was portrayed pre-settling down, seeking out sex when she felt lonely and/or depressed was not out of the realm of possibility.  She even had a conversation with the girls about the self-loathing she felt after a night of random "hiney-biting."

[ArmyGirl]

Repeat of  7.01 'The Hofstadter Insufficiency' plays tonight at 9 est/8 cst. 

 

Will be interesting to see how the show 'Mom' does with TBBT as a lead  in.

[JonRS92]

I have plenty of of friends who seem completely coherent when drinking and have zero recollection the next day.  On the flip-side, I have friends who get blackout drunk and remember every detail from the night before up until they passed out.  Saying Raj took advantage of Penny is 100% speculation.  And most people's opinions on the matter seem to be clouded by the fact that they like Penny and don't like Raj.  I like both characters, but I have a feeling Penny knew exactly what she was doing.  Just like she knew what she was doing what she hooked up with Leonard after the Zach date.  Given how Penny's character was portrayed pre-settling down, seeking out sex when she felt lonely and/or depressed was not out of the realm of possibility.  She even had a conversation with the girls about the self-loathing she felt after a night of random "hiney-biting."

 

I would buy this if you could explain why she implicitly told Raj she would not sleep with him because they were friends and then after more drinking ends up in bed with him with no recollection of it and freaked out about it.  There is a whole lot of evidence here that seems to point to more than speculation.  It is circumstantial evidence, I admit, but there is a lot of it.  I'd be prepared to agree that there is some speculating to the level he took advantage and his motives in doing what he did, but not that he did take advantage.  Either she was lying about not wanting to sleep with him (not likely) or Raj took advantage.  I liked Raj up until this and to some extent have started to like him again so I don't think my opinion is colored by any hatred of Raj.  I also had a huge problem with Penny at that point (not that I disliked her, I just thought she should have known better than to get that drunk...really not relevant to this discussion except to point out that I have no bias to one character over the other but still have more of a problem with Raj).

Edited October 14, 2013 by JonRS92

[Tensor]

I would buy this if you could explain why she implicitly told Raj she would not sleep with him because they were friends and then after more drinking ends up in bed with him with no recollection of it and freaked out about it.

Penny broke up with Leonard three weeks before and was out with another man less than an hour prior to coming to Leonard's door. What about those things would make you think that she wanted to have sex? After all, the next morning, she didn't remember (her reaction to Sheldon telling her about the yee-haw and after Leonard telling her last night was fun, her "Yeah, it must have been, I just threw up in my closet." indicate she doesn't remember) and she was freaked out by it.

 

There is a whole lot of evidence here that seems to point to more than speculation.  It is circumstantial evidence, I admit, but there is a lot of it.

And there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that the same thing happened with Leonard, but somehow you don't think that he took advantage of her.

 

I'd be prepared to agree that there is some speculating to the level he took advantage and his motives in doing what he did, but not that he did take advantage.

I guess I don't understand why you think that a woman who broke up with you three weeks before and was on a date with another guy earlier that evening equates to the woman wanting to have sex with you, especially if you knew that woman was drunk. If you say Raj took advantage of Penny, then Leonard took advantage of Penny.

 

Either she was lying about not wanting to sleep with him (not likely) or Raj took advantage.

She took Leonard to bed, a clear indiction she wanted sex. She was trying to put a condom on Raj, that seems to be a clear indication she wanted to have sex.

[Tensor]

I fully understand where you are coming from on this one as it pertains to Leonard taking advantage of the drunk Penny. The only thing I would question about this is this: When you first saw the episode, did you know that Penny had not decided to try again with Leonard? Did we know all she wanted was a fling? Sure we know all of that later, but would Leonard have known that? Up to that point, sex with her was the primary indicator that they were in a relationship.

Does not being sure give approval to having sex, when the woman is drunk? It seems to me you are saying if a drunk woman wants to have sex and YOU THINK that woman wants to get back together, it's OK to have sex with her, even if you aren't sure whether she wants to or not.

 

Their official pairing did start with sex after all in 3.1. And if I am not mistaken was it not getting drunk that initially made their sex lives better? I could be wrong on that one. I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume that Leonard thought that sex meant getting back together.

No, they started drinking because it was awkward between them. Then they just got drunk. The sex life was better at the end when they talked about being only friends.

 

He obviously didn't learn his lesson later on at the conference when Penny (insinuated anyway) that the sex was going to be a one time thing even though Leonard assumed it meant they were getting back together.

That doesn't give him the right to have

 

 

One last thing I would say to the differences between Leonard and Raj. First, Raj had knowledge that Penny really didn't want to sleep with him where as Leonard did not have that same certain knowledge.

You're splitting hairs. Breaking up with you and going out with someone else, when she was sober, is a pretty certain indication.

 

Second, Leonard had been in a relationship with Penny while Raj had not. Leonard assuming that Penny was being legit makes more sense that Raj believing it.

So, if I was dating a woman and we broke up, and I think(notice, it's not that I know, just that I think it's possible) she want to get back together, having sex with her when she was drunk is not taking advantage of her, because we were in a relationship previously?

 

Finally, Penny appears to have remembered her night with Leonard.

No, she didn't. See her comments, especially the one about how the reason she knew she had fun, was because she threw up in her closet. That doesn't sound as if she knew she had fun previously.

It's like if Penny's drunk it's OK for Leonard to have sex with her, but if she is drunk it's not OK for anyone else.

[Nogravitasatall]

After seeing this episode... I just wanna see how Penny will react when she comes to know that Leonard showed off her topless shower video to his peers..wonder what ammunition she will unleash ....

and on another note... "The Disappointing Child"....geez...how humiliating......

for a psycology student.....penny clearly did not know the correct way of getting back at leonard...

I believe we know how she will react from what happened when Sheldon told her. It was finely calibrated shock then acceptance. She has nothing to be ashamed of as it was a real schlock horror movie, with props and sets and a script.

I can't immediately think of a bigger smackdown for Leonard, unless she had done this is public. Unlike other times, she didn't run and she dealt with it (almost) in private, with some thought. It still. was horrible on many levels. But I've given up on being horrified, because it was so playfully done. I'm sure the costuming helped.

My consolation is that he called out to Penny for help. I'd like to think she was ready to rush back and forgive him once she heard what his mother said. She was initially sympathetic and I'd hope that sympathy would be rekindled, after she stopped laughing from the Ping Pong paddle story.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[JonRS92]

Penny broke up with Leonard three weeks before and was out with another man less than an hour prior to coming to Leonard's door. What about those things would make you think that she wanted to have sex? After all, the next morning, she didn't remember (her reaction to Sheldon telling her about the yee-haw and after Leonard telling her last night was fun, her "Yeah, it must have been, I just threw up in my closet." indicate she doesn't remember) and she was freaked out by it.

And there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that the same thing happened with Leonard, but somehow you don't think that he took advantage of her.

 

See, I don't think she didn't remember her night with Leonard.  The "Yeah, it must have been" comment kind of suggests that, but everything else points to her having an adequate memory of what happened, and I disagree that she was freaked out by what happened.   When the Raj incident happened, she looked at Raj and started to panic.  She then looked and saw herself naked and really panicked.  Then she yelled at Raj that nothing happened.  Nowhere in her interactions with Leonard after their night was there a hint of that same panic or denial (except for maybe the rodeo part).  She seemed disappointed at what she had done but that was it.  She seemed to me to be very aware of what happened.  She apologized to Sheldon for the noise without any indication that she was confused about his statement or unaware of being loud.  She offers Leonard a clear reason of why she did what she did saying she was drunk, lonely and mad at Zach which seems to indicate that she remembers the previous night.

 

As I stated above, I do not think Leonard was taking advantage of her (at least not on the level of Raj) because he truly believed they were getting back together.  To him, sex meant they were a couple.  If Leonard wanted to take advantage of her while drunk then why didn't he do it back in season 1?  You can argue that Raj was different because he was drunk, but I cannot believe he didn't know what he was doing.  Everything points to his not being too drunk to understand and that he has it in him (drunk or sober) to take advantage of a friend to get what he wants with little conscience about it.  Leonard is not that way.  He didn't take advantage of Penny's drunkenness in season 1 and I do not believe that was his intent in season 3.  Leonard's not perfect by any stretch and he has made his share of mistakes, but taking advantage of drunk women he knows don't really want to sleep with him is not one of them.

 

I guess I don't understand why you think that a woman who broke up with you three weeks before and was on a date with another guy earlier that evening equates to the woman wanting to have sex with you, especially if you knew that woman was drunk. If you say Raj took advantage of Penny, then Leonard took advantage of Penny.

 

She took Leonard to bed, a clear indiction she wanted sex. She was trying to put a condom on Raj, that seems to be a clear indication she wanted to have sex.

Well, Penny did tell him that she was not happy with Zach and that Leonard had ruined her ability to tolerate dumb guys.  It kind of sounded like she was open to trying again.  Then she says they are going to have sex.  At no point did Penny tell him before hand that she did not want to sleep with him.  I can see where Leonard believed they were getting back together.  He clearly thought so the next day so there is no indication he willingly took advantage.  You say that putting the condom on Raj showed Penny wanted to have sex.  The problem with that is that we know for certain that she DID NOT want to because she told him so a little while before.  This incident was the worst we have seen of her being drunk.  She clearly was about to do something she did not want to under the influence and then had no memory of it the next day.  We've never seen her have memory loss after drinking up until then.  I would buy your entire argument on this if we did not have Penny telling Raj straight out that she did not want to have sex with him.  I don't get how he can misinterpret that unless he wanted to feign ignorance later.

 

I don't claim to infer that I completely understand you, but I am pretty sure that you don't believe that Penny wanted to sleep with Raj.  I also would not be surprised to hear that you believe Raj took advantage.  You seem very protective of Penny and you see people like me criticizing her while leaving Leonard alone.  Just for the record, I place very little blame on Penny.  This is all on Raj.  Raj and Leonard are completely different people.  Leonard has shown time and time again that while not perfect and not immune to making insensitive mistakes, that he is a way better man than Raj.  Looking at two similar situations like we are now, I cannot see them as equal.  Knowing what we know of both characters it is almost impossible not to view Raj in the worse light.

Edited October 14, 2013 by JonRS92

[JonRS92]

Does not being sure give approval to having sex, when the woman is drunk? It seems to me you are saying if a drunk woman wants to have sex and YOU THINK that woman wants to get back together, it's OK to have sex with her, even if you aren't sure whether she wants to or not.

 

Do you think she was as drunk with Leonard as she was with Raj? I don't.

 

No, they started drinking because it was awkward between them. Then they just got drunk. The sex life was better at the end when they talked about being only friends.

Okay.

 

 

That doesn't give him the right to have

 

 

You're splitting hairs. Breaking up with you and going out with someone else, when she was sober, is a pretty certain indication.

I kind of agree on the splitting hairs thing. We just have a slightly different view of what was going on. Penny broke up with Leonard because of her own feelings, not because of anything Leonard did despite him being on her about the ILY she couldn't say back. He'd moved on from that when she broke up with him. So it is not like she stopped caring for him. She seemed to make it very clear to Leonard when she came to him that Zach was not doing it for her. It sure seemed to me that Zach was not seriously in the picture if he was at all.  

 

So, if I was dating a woman and we broke up, and I think(notice, it's not that I know, just that I think it's possible) she want to get back together, having sex with her when she was drunk is not taking advantage of her, because we were in a relationship previously?

Well I cannot answer that with a certainty, it all depends. If your ex-girlfriend came to you complaining about the guy she was seeing and asked you to have sex what would you think? It seems like on this point you might believe that Penny is incapable of making any coherent choices when drunk. Or you think I am saying that and I am not. Penny's level of intoxication with Raj seemed above her usual level. See my previous response. So while in that state I don't think she was capable of making the right choice, I do not mean to imply that every time she drinks she is incapable of knowing exactly what she wants. 

 

No, she didn't. See her comments, especially the one about how the reason she knew she had fun, was because she threw up in her closet. That doesn't sound as if she knew she had fun previously.

This is where we differ the most. As I said, I think she remembers.

 

It's like if Penny's drunk it's OK for Leonard to have sex with her, but if she is drunk it's not OK for anyone else.

Not what I am saying at all. I don't think it was okay for Raj to sleep with her because he clearly knew she didn't want to. Leonard did not clearly know. Maybe Leonard shouldn't have slept with her, but I do not believe he was knowingly taking advantage as I believe Raj was.

Hopefully you are not taking this too personally. I am not trying to insult you here.

Edited October 14, 2013 by JonRS92

[hamerman55]

I go back to my comment that we are assuming that these guys are much better socialized than they appear to be most of the time. I accept that Penny changed her mind and decided to sleep with Raj anyway. Either that, or we have to assumed that she was passed out drunk. Yet we know she was coherent enough to help Raj with a condom. Further, do you think that Sheldon and Leonard's apartment has that much wine around? I think abetter motivation for her is to escape the horror of her situation. Leonard seemed to be moving along with Priya, as they were living at Ra's apartment.Penny was likely trying to wrap her head around how badly she messed up with Leonard, and when booze didn't dull the pain, she figured meaningless sex would. From her previous statements about breakups, booze and lots of meaningless sex was how she dealt with heartbreak. She likes Raj, surely he was willing, and Raj was clearly hiding what was coming up with Leonard and Priya. Further, Raj at this point is so desperate he would do practically anything to get laid. I maintain these guys don't have the "bro code" wired into them, especially since it is usually enforced by the threat of major physical harm, which none of these guys are capable of afflicting.

[Tensor]

Hopefully you are not taking this too personally. I am not trying to insult you here.

No not personally, but since this isn't a season 7 discussion see the PM.

[Nogravitasatall]

@Hammerman, now there are two things wrong with the bro code. LOL. The ho and the implicit violence. All over two individuals exercising their indivdual freedom. hmmm. I think I prefer ANZAC mateship. Which is close but can include women, if you look at it in a good light.

Cheeses, I'm looking forward to the one with Penny's box. It might lift the tone. .

Edited October 15, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Tensor]

I go back to my comment that we are assuming that these guys are much better socialized than they appear to be most of the time.

Snip...

don't have the "bro code" wired into them, especially since it is usually enforced by the threat of major physical harm, which none of these guys are capable of afflicting.

There was a poster( and I can't remember who) that pointed out that at hard core "science or engineering" universities, that there isn't a "bro code". These type collages have very few women in them, relatively and unattached females are considered available to anyone, including friends of guy that the woman broke up with. Cal Tech is one of those universities, so in the context of this school, what Raj did May note be a problem. Ladies, don't write to me.

[JonRS92]

I go back to my comment that we are assuming that these guys are much better socialized than they appear to be most of the time. I accept that Penny changed her mind and decided to sleep with Raj anyway. Either that, or we have to assumed that she was passed out drunk. Yet we know she was coherent enough to help Raj with a condom. Further, do you think that Sheldon and Leonard's apartment has that much wine around? I think abetter motivation for her is to escape the horror of her situation. Leonard seemed to be moving along with Priya, as they were living at Ra's apartment.Penny was likely trying to wrap her head around how badly she messed up with Leonard, and when booze didn't dull the pain, she figured meaningless sex would. From her previous statements about breakups, booze and lots of meaningless sex was how she dealt with heartbreak. She likes Raj, surely he was willing, and Raj was clearly hiding what was coming up with Leonard and Priya. Further, Raj at this point is so desperate he would do practically anything to get laid. I maintain these guys don't have the "bro code" wired into them, especially since it is usually enforced by the threat of major physical harm, which none of these guys are capable of afflicting.

 

I believe she changed her mind, but only due to the level of alcohol.  That she regretted it to the point of swearing him to silence the next day shows that she never really wanted to have sex with him.  And this is a little off-color observation but given that Raj was a bit premature, something had to have caused that.  Maybe Penny was having a bit of trouble with that condom...  As for the quantity of wine, I just assumed that Raj provided it and there is nothing to say that Penny didn't go over to her apartment to get more.  You are right about the no bro-code thing.  Raj especially is willing to sell out his friends especially for girls.  He wasn't a very good friend or good man.

[gsxdoug]

Just gonna state my opinion on this even though this isn't really the proper thread for it.

Raj is an ass. Just as an example, in the last Valentine's Day episode, when he met Lucy he could have quietly snuck out with her but instead chose to rub everybody's nose in the fact he was leaving with her. Before, he was seriously glad when Howard and Bernie were having issues. He knew Penny still had feelings for Leonard and wasn't interested in him. He was not shown to be so drunk as to not know what he was doing. Even if Penny initiated the encounter, the right thing to do was turn her down, no matter how desperate he was to get laid. My own interpretation of the info given us is that she was too drunk to really know what she was doing, therefore the onus was on Raj not to take advantage. As for the Leonard booty call, Penny seemed very much in control of her faculties, and Leonard assumed that she wanted to rekindle the relationship, and who could blame him. He was, after all, still in love with her.

There was a poster( and I can't remember who) that pointed out that at hard core "science or engineering" universities, that there isn't a "bro code". These type collages have very few women in them, relatively and unattached females are considered available to anyone, including friends of guy that the woman broke up with. Cal Tech is one of those universities, so in the context of this school, what Raj did May note be a problem. Ladies, don't write to me.

There still is such a thing as doing the right thing. I'm betting in the context of his freindship with Leonard, it very much is a problem.

Edited October 14, 2013 by gsxdoug

[Tensor]

There still is such a thing as doing the right thing. I'm betting in the context of his freindship with Leonard, it very much is a problem.

That was the point, those places have a different version of "the right thing". Not saying it's right, just that that kind of thinking exists at those places.

[ArmyGirl]

Repeat of  7.01 'The Hofstadter Insufficiency' plays tonight at 9 est/8 cst. 

 

Will be interesting to see how the show 'Mom' does with TBBT as a lead  in.

 

Hey someone did a switch and bait ---- actually showing 6.19 "The Closet Reconfiguration'.

[JonRS92]

Hey someone did a switch and bait ---- actually showing 6.19 "The Closet Reconfiguration'.

 

I saw that.  I was a bit disappointed, but it is still an enjoyable episode.

[3ku11]

Problem with saying Penny changed her mind and initiated with Raj, is when she was coherent and in a rational state of mind she told Raj she diddn't want to have sex, and the fact up to that point nothing Penny was doing was emotionally numbing the pain over realizing she screwed up with Leonard, and like I said Raj and Penny were in very similar places in their life's then, they were both lonely, they both had a common disliking of Leonard and Priya's relationship, and with alcahol come's impaired judgement. I mean it happened once in Seven Season's, best to give Penny the benefit of the doubt. I can't buy though that Penny changed her mind, if she did that obviousley implies she was intoxicated and blacked out, seeing when she was coherent she told Raj she woulden't sleep with him, the fact it happened implies to me she changed her mind while she was completely drunk having fun and a great time talking about Leonard and Priya with Raj, this obviousley implies to me Penny was not in a great emotional state, combine alcahal she was not in a coherent state of mind, in term's of making the best judgement. And the fact to this day Penny still has a very vague recollection of the whole thing and detail's are hazy, the fact Raj knew they actually diddn't have sex, really put's Raj in a very very harsh light.

 

The fact Raj had to take Penny through step by step in what happened, culminating with Raj revealing they diddn't actually go all the way, seeing Raj prematurely you know what haha, not sure they ever told Leonard but seeing it was a big drunken mistake and happened once, it was delt with in 5x01 and they all moved on. As for people saying they don't like Raj and Penny as an idea opposed to the end game which is Lenny, I can buy that but Leonard and Penny have been friend's just as much when they were dating, and the fact Leonard and Penny weren't dating then, and with all the information at hand for four season's Penny has never seen Raj like that, and the fact like I said made it clear she woulden't sleep him it's obvious she was intoxicated and blacked out and it caused her to change her mind without realizing it, so regardless of Penny initiated it as an outlet to numb the pain over Leonard and Priya, Raj should of shown the responsiblity and maturity to realize Penny was not in the state to do it, seeing it would have huge consequences for her. But that's the point she was so drunk, and he was drunk enough and he was so lonely, the context of the circumstances did not involve common sense. So I think it is implied in Penny's very drunken state through alcahol impairing her judgement, she tried to help Raj put the condom on but then you know what, Penny realizied this and passed out, and then it was over then.

 

Not sure if it is also implied that their was kissing involved, initially I would say yes but afterwards, you could imagine holding a wine bottle and stumbling across the room hitting into the wall lol, and then what I said above occured. The next morning when the alcahol wore off, Penny was back to normal and realized what she had done, I mean heck Raj coulden't talk to Penny haha, so status quo had resumed. So I understand the whole Raj/Penny thing is still a sore point, but it was very circumstancial, and it occured in the final moment's of a season, so you can see how circumstancial it was, and it was under very unique circumstances. It was more for shock value and like I said to build hype and suspense over the summer, that's the writer's job after all, so their is still a lot of conjecture, unawnswered question's of what happened, why it happened, how it happened e.t.c. But the variables can be deconstructed to the fullest extent, but at the end of the day by EP 2 of Season 5 status quo had resumed, and the main thing is 1. The Writer's learnt it was stupid thing to do, and not to jump the shark ever again and 2. It had no lasting effect on the character's or the show. Leonard showed how strong he is when he seemed to forgive not Penny because I feel the current state she was in she had more to lose in the situation, and she showed complete remorse straight away, as she worried she had lost her friend's and especially Leonard, where as Raj misunderstood the whole situation and assumed he and Penny were getting married lol, remember he is from a different culture, so the social convention work's differently in western culture.

 

So their is evidence Penny showed remorse, where as Raj hasen't although he gotten better the past three season's. Just another point later on in the season when Leonard and Penny got back together, I thought the beta verson while forced their chemistry at time's, was a big part of why Leonard and Penny's relationship is so strong now, I felt it taught them to both compromise more in their relationship, another reason why Penny want's to better her self now for Leonard with going back to college, might have to change this thread to Leonard and Penny spoiler/4x24 spoiler thread lol.

Edited October 15, 2013 by 3ku11

[Occam's Chainsaw]

Can we just say mistakes were made, and leave it at that? Pretty please?

[HollyAndOatmeal]

Long live the Lenny!

[JonRS92]

Problem with saying Penny changed her mind and initiated with Raj, is when she was coherent and in a rational state of mind she told Raj she diddn't want to have sex, and the fact up to that point nothing Penny was doing was emotionally numbing the pain over realizing she screwed up with Leonard, and like I said Raj and Penny were in very similar places in their life's then, they were both lonely, they both had a common disliking of Leonard and Priya's relationship, and with alcahol come's impaired judgement. I mean it happened once in Seven Season's, best to give Penny the benefit of the doubt. I can't buy though that Penny changed her mind, if she did that obviousley implies she was intoxicated and blacked out, seeing when she was coherent she told Raj she woulden't sleep with him, the fact it happened implies to me she changed her mind while she was completely drunk having fun and a great time talking about Leonard and Priya with Raj, this obviousley implies to me Penny was not in a great emotional state, combine alcahal she was not in a coherent state of mind, in term's of making the best judgement. And the fact to this day Penny still has a very vague recollection of the whole thing and detail's are hazy, the fact Raj knew they actually diddn't have sex, really put's Raj in a very very harsh light.

 

The fact Raj had to take Penny through step by step in what happened, culminating with Raj revealing they diddn't actually go all the way, seeing Raj prematurely you know what haha, not sure they ever told Leonard but seeing it was a big drunken mistake and happened once, it was delt with in 5x01 and they all moved on. As for people saying they don't like Raj and Penny as an idea opposed to the end game which is Lenny, I can buy that but Leonard and Penny have been friend's just as much when they were dating, and the fact Leonard and Penny weren't dating then, and with all the information at hand for four season's Penny has never seen Raj like that, and the fact like I said made it clear she woulden't sleep him it's obvious she was intoxicated and blacked out and it caused her to change her mind without realizing it, so regardless of Penny initiated it as an outlet to numb the pain over Leonard and Priya, Raj should of shown the responsiblity and maturity to realize Penny was not in the state to do it, seeing it would have huge consequences for her. But that's the point she was so drunk, and he was drunk enough and he was so lonely, the context of the circumstances did not involve common sense. So I think it is implied in Penny's very drunken state through alcahol impairing her judgement, she tried to help Raj put the condom on but then you know what, Penny realizied this and passed out, and then it was over then.

 

Not sure if it is also implied that their was kissing involved, initially I would say yes but afterwards, you could imagine holding a wine bottle and stumbling across the room hitting into the wall lol, and then what I said above occured. The next morning when the alcahol wore off, Penny was back to normal and realized what she had done, I mean heck Raj coulden't talk to Penny haha, so status quo had resumed. So I understand the whole Raj/Penny thing is still a sore point, but it was very circumstancial, and it occured in the final moment's of a season, so you can see how circumstancial it was, and it was under very unique circumstances. It was more for shock value and like I said to build hype and suspense over the summer, that's the writer's job after all, so their is still a lot of conjecture, unawnswered question's of what happened, why it happened, how it happened e.t.c. But the variables can be deconstructed to the fullest extent, but at the end of the day by EP 2 of Season 5 status quo had resumed, and the main thing is 1. The Writer's learnt it was stupid thing to do, and not to jump the shark ever again and 2. It had no lasting effect on the character's or the show. Leonard showed how strong he is when he seemed to forgive not Penny because I feel the current state she was in she had more to lose in the situation, and she showed complete remorse straight away, as she worried she had lost her friend's and especially Leonard, where as Raj misunderstood the whole situation and assumed he and Penny were getting married lol, remember he is from a different culture, so the social convention work's differently in western culture.

 

So their is evidence Penny showed remorse, where as Raj hasen't although he gotten better the past three season's. Just another point later on in the season when Leonard and Penny got back together, I thought the beta verson while forced their chemistry at time's, was a big part of why Leonard and Penny's relationship is so strong now, I felt it taught them to both compromise more in their relationship, another reason why Penny want's to better her self now for Leonard with going back to college, might have to change this thread to Leonard and Penny spoiler/4x24 spoiler thread lol.

 

I agree with nearly all of this.  Alll I would add is that we have no real idea what happened in that room.  For all we know Raj had help her get in there.  As for her being coherent enough to put on the condom, there is nothing to say that she was all that successful and it kind of sounds like she wasn't or else I doubt Raj has issues.  We just don't know how they were.  All we know is what she told him before and how she reacted after and what kind of person Raj was to that point.  None of which points to Penny wanting what happened to happen.  I'm more than happy to drop this now though and get back to pleasant things.

Edited October 15, 2013 by JonRS92

[Chrismo]

Am I the only one that thinks this upcoming episode is going to be a "yawner"? Granted it seems nothing bad will happen to L/P.

[3ku11]

Am I the only one that thinks this upcoming episode is going to be a "yawner"? Granted it seems nothing bad will happen to L/P.

Actually I am looking forward to it, look's like some work related storyline's involving science, yeah nothing bad happening to Lenny, but i can't be relationship progressive every episode, I am looking forward too seeing how Sheldon deals with Amy at Cal-Tech, that's just me, probably the biggest thing I am looking forward to is seeing Leonard and Penny on the couch just being a normal couple haha.

[SRAM]

Am I the only one that thinks this upcoming episode is going to be a "yawner"? Granted it seems nothing bad will happen to L/P.

Isn't this episode the one were we get the cute scene of them cuddling on the couch with the blanket on them? If it is, you know we are all going to be talking about it.