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Disgusted

Leonard And Penny Season 7 *spoiler* Discussion Thread

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I tend to agree with you.  Last episode of this season she buys the ring and we go nuts over the summer, Then season 8 we continue to go nuts on what episode she is going to do it.  Probably around Valentine's day, 2 years after he puts it on her to propose.

 

Or we see her in the mall going into a jewelry store and then they leave us hanging over the summer and then don't bring it up at all until the episode she's gonna do it. Or they bring it up once but in passing like Leonard enters the bedroom and she hastily hides away the little box and distracts him with a new nightie. Wow my mind has so many theories on this. 

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Or we see her in the mall going into a jewelry store and then they leave us hanging over the summer and then don't bring it up at all until the episode she's gonna do it. Or they bring it up once but in passing like Leonard enters the bedroom and she hastily hides away the little box and distracts him with a new nightie. Wow my mind has so many theories on this. 

 

Yeah you're right, seeing her wandering into a jewelry store is much more subtle and will make people wonder more.  And her distracting Leoanrd with a nightie is so IC for her and him.  The ways they could do it is mind boggling, but they will probably do it during the sweeps, because it will be so big.  I sort of wonder if they will hint what show it will be, because, if they do, that episode's rating will probablys go through the roof.

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The writer's have no reason to mess with Lenny at this point, the drama in their relationship is in the past, and right now like everyone has said they are settled and domesticated. The drama and the shake up's this season well come from Shamy, how far or how little Sheldon well compromise in their relationship and how this well effect Amy in the process. I have never though the writer's have thrown Lenny under the bus, every time their has been drama as friend's or in a relationship has been justified, their was no obligation from Penny when she first met him, that she had to change who she is or alter her dating lifestyle, and just commit to Leonard from the beginning, that woulden't be realistic, and seeing TBBT is known for it's slow changes and gradual progress, Penny has always been work in progress. Penny is almost Bridget all grown up Penny dated superficial guy's for various reason's, they were her social peer's, reflected her identity being from nebraska, being 21 it suited her ideals and values of wanting to become a movie star e.t.c. So the writer's were making it clear in S1 everything Penny did from who she dated, to her personality, to her peer's all encompassed her idealistic values and goals. Clearly now she has gotten older and with the expereince of failed relationship's, her fear's of intimacy and particualry a guy like Leonard who sub-conciousley she has always felt was too good for her, those gym type's she tended to date when she was younger you could argue was almost a superficial reflection of her self she was dating if that make's sense haha.

 

With maturity came wisdom and by S2 Penny started having less superficial relationship's, and her tolerance for dumb guy's started to diminish, and starting getting attracted to guy's who challenged her more intellectually hence Leonard, and with David Underhill was a big example of that, it also got rid of her fear's of Leonard being too smart for her, when he barged in her apartment. Point is I have never thought the writer's brought drama to L/P unnecessarily I have thought the writer's were telling a story from the pilot which was a story when Leonard knew everything about everything, had all his atoms in order in the right place, then this gorgeous girl next door move's in next door with all her atoms in the right place, and it disrupts his entire world, over time Penny has taught Leonard a lot more about the real world then science ever could. Clearly Penny has always been from another spiecies to Leonard, so from the beggining the probability of Leonard getting involved with a women as sexually supeior to him was very vast, so I have always thought Leonard showed great strength and strived thing's that were always a massive challenge, that's what make's Lenny so special and why they are the heart of the show.

 

Funny thing is now you are seeing Penny showing insecurities in their relationship now, now that are almost equals, and Penny now she is getting older and hotter haha, with expereince you are now seeing her making more adult decisions, like going back to college for example you could argue Penny has worked more in their relationship then Leonard has recently. Lenny work's now because of Penny, her self actulization has been deconstructed from defining her success and happiness based on her acting, it has now been transfered to her relationships, particularly Leonard, To be honest though their relationship has always defied expectations and the social convention, people say it is a conventional relationship not true, I would argue their relationship at their core is just as unique as Shamy. I think though from a writer's stand point, all the drama they went through if it was being on and off, or a lack of trust and compromise in their relationship even as friend's, or Leonard being too submissive and not assertive enough, Penny's intimacy issues e.t.c.

 

They were all neccessary part's of growing their relationship which has over time grown into an equal partnership, hence why they are in such a good place now and so settled and domesticated. As for the engagement obviousley Leonard gave her the power last season in the VD ep, so around sweep's time 7x15 seem's more logical, but the writer's may want to drag it out, either 1. They well get engaged but it well be a long one or 2. Penny well be seen going into a jewellry store in the finalie, and it build hype over the summer. I think though they have to be living together on a regular basis before an engagement, they have both progressed a lot in terms of their emotional intimacy, but their physical intimacy has a while to grow yet, that includes meeting the parent's, and I also think Sheldon is a big issue here too either he progresses a lot in his relationship with Amy, or nothing well change until Shamy changes.The engagement well obviously be a huge milestone for the show so the writer's and the show need to be prepared for it, in a way an engagement will be the culmination of the past Seven Year's of the show, so it well be a massive moment and rating's are sure to sky rocket. 

Edited by 3ku11
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The Lenny engagement is so dependent on Sheldon's evolution I do not see it happening for quite some time.

For Leonard and Penny to get engaged would mean for them to be ready to live together (if they do not start cohabiting before the proposal stage) which would mean Sheldon would have to give signs of being willing and able to live either on his own or with Amy. For the moment, the writers are not giving us much sign of such a change occurring in Dr. Cooper's mind. So I am not exactly holding my breath.

 

As for the proposal, as much as I would love to see Leonard's dreams of "being swept off his feet" come true, I cannot shake off my deep attachment to the long tradition of oddball proofs of love these two characters have given each other over the years. Therefore, to me at least, a "traditional" proposal (jewelry, flowers, dinner, candles) would be a teeny wee bit of a disappointment. There is no doubt that they have matured and are therefore more capable of giving one another more conventional evidence of mutual affection than chemistry kits and bike riding lessons; however, they remain, at their core, two slightly offbeat personalities and I believe the proposal should represent that. ;)

Edited by Chiara
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As for the proposal, as much as I would love to see Leonard's dreams of "being swept off his feet" come true, I cannot shake off my deep attachment to the long tradition of oddball proofs of affection these two characters have given each other over the years. Therefore, to me at least, a "traditional" proposal (jewelry, flowers, dinner, candles) would be a teeny wee bit of a disappointment. There is no doubt that they have matured and are therefore more capable of giving one another more conventional evidence of mutual affection than chemistry kits and bike riding lessons; however, they remain, at their core, two slightly offbeat personalities and I believe the proposal should represent that. ;)

 

 

You know I could actually see Leonard accidently finding the ring before she does it and her getting mad at him for ruining it. but by the end of the episode getting engaged. 

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You know I could actually see Leonard accidently finding the ring before she does it and her getting mad at him for ruining it. but by the end of the episode getting engaged. 

That is very much a distinct possibility. 

 

My take on Leonard's plan (having Penny propose instead of him) is that it was something he put forward in order to appease his girlfriend, to give her the psychological space to quiet her fears. It worked a charm however I wonder how resolute he truly is. After all, Leonard, bless his adorable soul, has a very "chilvalrous" take on romance; his natural tendency is to to try and make everything fairytale/medieval fantasy perfect : he battled Kurt to get his lady love's stuff back, he gives her tokens of his affection that are either very rare (e.g. snowflake) or so "cliché" they are almost too sweet for words (e.g. heart locket, roses on the hood of her car). etc.

He has his own outsider-ish brand of traditional behaviours he likes to perpetuate.

 

Therefore I would not be surprised if, were he to find out Penny is planning to propose in the near future, he would decide to go ahead and beat her to the marital post, so to speak. Not to steal her thunder or any such thing of course but because this is the "manly" thing to do, as per tradition. I  believe it would not be out of character for him even to believe he is doing Penny a favour by taking the responsibility of proposing away from her at the last minute. How would Penny react to such a course of action ? With remarkable gratitude and misty-eyed thankfulness, I am sure... [/sarcasm]

We could then end up with the two of them fighting over who gets to propose to whom. That sounds like something they would do. 

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You know I could actually see Leonard accidently finding the ring before she does it and her getting mad at him for ruining it. but by the end of the episode getting engaged. 

 

I can see it happening this way, though I hope it doesn't because I am tired of the Leonard does something wrong and Penny gets angry at him.  How many years has this been happening and shouldn't the writers come up with something different?  For me angry Penny at Leonard for everything under the sun has wore out it's welcome if you ask me.

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I was thinking the only time we have seen Penny crying was after Wheaton and then the declaration of love in the stairwell (I may be wrong).

I'd like to see her crying " happy" without the denial and running off stage. She might want to own it publicly at some time. Im not sure when, but i can image at least three events that deserve tears of joy, without running off. I know she is not a sook, but she gets so damn reticent. It would be quite a contrast to see her overcome with emotion. I know its a comedy, but Leonard has demonstrated his feelings over and over again. Maybe im just preempting the next ep.

eta TW made me think of this. I read her story and i thought it would be nice to see Penny so happy.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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I was thinking the only time we have seen Penny crying was after Wheaton and then the declaration of love in the stairwell (I may be wrong).

I'd like to see her crying " happy" without the denial and running off stage. She might want to own it publicly at some time. Im not sure when, but i can image at least three events that deserve tears of joy, without running off. I know she is not a sook, but she gets so damn reticent. It would be quite a contrast to see her overcome with emotion. I know its a comedy, but Leonard has demonstrated his feelings over and over again. Maybe im just preempting the next ep.

She cried in S1 when she broke up with Mike was it, and with DU in S2, but that was self inflicted more then anything. Penny when it come's to expressing her emotions through tear's of happiness like you said she get's reticent, or she represses them like in the ILY scene, but well see.

Edited by 3ku11

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I was thinking the only time we have seen Penny crying was after Wheaton and then the declaration of love in the stairwell (I may be wrong).

I'd like to see her crying " happy" without the denial and running off stage. She might want to own it publicly at some time. Im not sure when, but i can image at least three events that deserve tears of joy, without running off. I know she is not a sook, but she gets so damn reticent. It would be quite a contrast to see her overcome with emotion. I know its a comedy, but Leonard has demonstrated his feelings over and over again. Maybe im just preempting the next ep.

 

Here are the times that Penny has cried on the show off the top of my head:

 

S1E01 Pilot

 

S2E03 The Barbarian Sublimation

 

S2E15 The Maternal Capacitance

 

S3E19 The Wheaton Recurrence

 

S4E16 The Cohabitation Formulation

 

 

No we have never seen happy tears from Penny and it would be something different.

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Hey Chiara,

 

I just notice it was your birthday today.  Happy Birthday to you and I hope it has been a great one. 

 

:dancer:  :girldance:  :dance:  :yahoo:  :dance:

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Hey Chiara,

I just notice it was your birthday today. Happy Birthday to you and I hope it has been a great one.

:dancer::girldance::dance::yahoo::dance:

x a lot me too. Yes. Hope you got all your birthday wishes.

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I can see it happening this way, though I hope it doesn't because I am tired of the Leonard does something wrong and Penny gets angry at him.  How many years has this been happening and shouldn't the writers come up with something different?  For me angry Penny at Leonard for everything under the sun has wore out it's welcome if you ask me.

I definitely see what you mean but I believe my take on it is slightly different. To me, Leonard would not be doing anything "wrong" if he were to decide to propose in order to spare Penny the trouble of doing so.

Of course, Penny and Leonard have a deal but, while the "letter" of it is about her doing all the proposing in the future, its "spirit" is about Leonard waiting for his girlfriend to be ready before entering into (un)holy matrimony. Therefore, were he to "hold it in" until he were sure she is more than OK with the idea, it would not be the story of him getting something wrong and her getting angry as a result; it would be about each of them attempting to enforce a different aspect of their agreement (him the spirit, her the letter).

 

Over the past six years, I believe the writers have been pretty good at emphasising that a disagreement between two characters does not rely on one of its participants being "wrong" per se. Perhaps the most striking example of this continuing point of theirs was the conflict that led to the third season Lenny breakup. In this particular case, neither Leonard nor Penny was more in the wrong than the other. TPTB made it abundantly clear that Leonard had every right to expect his ILY to be reciprocated and that Penny had every right not to return it if she was not confident. Even when the whole thing spun out of control, the blame was evenly spread between the two characters : Leonard got overly passive-aggressive and Penny got overly defensive, in equal measures. There was no real guilty party (with the exception of Wheaton who got off scots free even though he shamed the United Federation of Planets Starfleet with his wretched deed).

 

Penny and Leonard, for all their greatness, are very different creatures. Their match was not made in Heaven but in a lab, by a possibly perturbed scientist with instability on his mind and very resistant safety goggles on his face.

So, sometimes, their perfectly reasonable respective interests are mutually exclusive, without it being anybody's fault.  A "Me !/No, me !/I said me !/Me first !" proposal would, I think, be true to the heterogeneous nature of their mixture.

 

 

PS Thank you so much, ArmyGirl and Nogravitasatall, for the birthday wishes. I have had a fantastic day so far ! 

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I was thinking the only time we have seen Penny crying was after Wheaton and then the declaration of love in the stairwell (I may be wrong).

 

We saw her cry in "The Cohabitation Formulation":

 

Penny: I mean, if anything, I’m quite pleased (starts breaking down) that Leonard has found someone (starts to cry) that makes him so happy.

Amy: (hugs Penny) Its okay, it’s okay.

Penny: (still crying) Thank you.

Amy: Now, let’s get these electrodes attached and see what’s going on in that pretty little noggin of yours.

Penny: (still crying) Okay.

 

Thus helping Amy make a rhesus monkey cry like a disgraced televangelist. :biggrin:

Edited by MJPollard
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Happy birthday Chiara! I hadn't been on the forum since yesteray and didn't notice before now.

I think the writers have a lot of options, as we'll see from this week's episode, they are writing very creative and meaningful things for Leonard and Penny. If the actual episode is better than the taping report, as has been the rule so far this season, it will be a fabulous take on what is truly important in the relationship. In a way, they've painted themselves in a corner that is good for us Lennys, as it is becoming more and more implausible for them to break up. The other two couples are in far worse shape.

After this last episode, I'm really starting to not like Sheldon. He's never been this narcissistic and self-centered before. In the past two episodes, we were shown how dysfunctional Bernie and Howard are. A major blow up in either would be where the writers are leaning. I think we'll see big drama in the upcoming sweeps with the other couples before we'll see any movement in Lenny. And I don't think we need any right now. Personally, they could just cruise along being the "sane" couple for a while.

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I don't think their is any serious form of dysfunction between Howard and Bernadette, Bernadette however is becoming more snarky and short with Howard then she has before. Like for instance in the Raider's ep, dismissing Howard's attempt at sex, Howard really sold Leonard down the river without a paddle in that scene lol. They are in a marrage though, so it is implied their is more trust and compromise between them opposed to Lenny or Shamy. Bernadette may be having problems at work, their may be a lot of issues behind the scene's that the writer's don't explore in detail, but it is implied the audience just have to assume the character's have work related issues that could influence their relationship in someway. Like Bernadette's reaction to Howard not wanting to work with her, Bernadette and Howard seem to be fighting a lot more then they have in the past, maybe just some bug's in their relationship they have to iron out. Irony is Lenny are in the driver's seat when it come's to a smooth drive this season, most of the drama I think well come from Shamy, how much or how little Sheldon well compromise to progress in their relationship, and how increasingly annoyed Amy well get through out the season haha. Yeah Sheldon is coming across very narcissistic in this episode, and very arrogant. But maybe the writer's felt they needed to get a balance, somehow get Sheldon revealing his true feeling's for Amy by telling Amy he like's her even though she is a weirdo, his pride getting in the way. But at the same time still holding off any real social awareness, hence not noticing he is the weirdo not Amy, but that's the thing Amy doesen't see him as the weird robot man that everyone else does, she see's the real Sheldon. So as frustrating as he must be, Amy's tolerance and patience come's from knowing she is in it for the long run, in a weird way Shamy is very similar to Charlie and Rose from Taahm, Amy being Rose ;) I'm kiddin lol. And I agree Sane Lenny for the most part of the season, pass of the drama to Shamy or Howardette haha.

Edited by 3ku11

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I definitely see what you mean but I believe my take on it is slightly different. To me, Leonard would not be doing anything "wrong" if he were to decide to propose in order to spare Penny the trouble of doing so.

Of course, Penny and Leonard have a deal but, while the "letter" of it is about her doing all the proposing in the future, its "spirit" is about Leonard waiting for his girlfriend to be ready before entering into (un)holy matrimony. Therefore, were he to "hold it in" until he were sure she is more than OK with the idea, it would not be the story of him getting something wrong and her getting angry as a result; it would be about each of them attempting to enforce a different aspect of their agreement (him the spirit, her the letter).

 

Over the past six years, I believe the writers have been pretty good at emphasising that a disagreement between two characters does not rely on one of its participants being "wrong" per se. Perhaps the most striking example of this continuing point of theirs was the conflict that led to the third season Lenny breakup. In this particular case, neither Leonard nor Penny was more in the wrong than the other. TPTB made it abundantly clear that Leonard had every right to expect his ILY to be reciprocated and that Penny had every right not to return it if she was not confident. Even when the whole thing spun out of control, the blame was evenly spread between the two characters : Leonard got overly passive-aggressive and Penny got overly defensive, in equal measures. There was no real guilty party (with the exception of Wheaton who got off scots free even though he shamed the United Federation of Planets Starfleet with his wretched deed).

 

Penny and Leonard, for all their greatness, are very different creatures. Their match was not made in Heaven but in a lab, by a possibly perturbed scientist with instability on his mind and very resistant safety goggles on his face.

So, sometimes, their perfectly reasonable respective interests are mutually exclusive, without it being anybody's fault.  A "Me !/No, me !/I said me !/Me first !" proposal would, I think, be true to the heterogeneous nature of their mixture.

 

 

PS Thank you so much, ArmyGirl and Nogravitasatall, for the birthday wishes. I have had a fantastic day so far ! 

Happy birthday

 

 

or

 

Edited by eirwinrommel
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Remember, Leonard still has the one ring, that has to figure in somewhere......  ring.gif

Edited by Disgusted

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@ Chiara: So sorry I didn't say Happy Birthday on time, but let me offer belated Happy B-day wishes. Hope it WAS indeed a happy Birthday for you. All the best.

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Remember, Leonard still has the one ring, that has to figure in somewhere......  ring.gif

Did he keep it? He seemed to want to send it back, however he fought with Sheldon for it at the end. Was there anymore reference to it?

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Remember, Leonard still has the one ring, that has to figure in somewhere......  ring.gif

You'd think that Bernadette would have taken it back by now.

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I was thinking the only time we have seen Penny crying was after Wheaton and then the declaration of love in the stairwell (I may be wrong).

I'd like to see her crying " happy" without the denial and running off stage. She might want to own it publicly at some time. Im not sure when, but i can image at least three events that deserve tears of joy, without running off. I know she is not a sook, but she gets so damn reticent. It would be quite a contrast to see her overcome with emotion. I know its a comedy, but Leonard has demonstrated his feelings over and over again. Maybe im just preempting the next ep.

eta TW made me think of this. I read her story and i thought it would be nice to see Penny so happy.

:) My work is incredibly thought-provoking obviously. Ha ha. 

She does sound like she's about to cry when Leonard returns... does that count?

 

Remember, Leonard still has the one ring, that has to figure in somewhere......  ring.gif

He gets it out every so often just so he can say "my precious" and feel nerd-cool

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Did he keep it? He seemed to want to send it back, however he fought with Sheldon for it at the end. Was there anymore reference to it?

 

Well no, but speaking just for myself, they would find Sheldon's body in a dumpster before I would give it up.

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:) My work is incredibly thought-provoking obviously.

um, yeah!!! :) It was so cute.I ALMOST went flower shopping myself. Maybe tonight. LOL.

Romance week. In anticipation of the next ep.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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You'd think that Bernadette would have taken it back by now.

He did play Frodo in the Middle Earth Paradigm. And Frodo, didn't willingly gives it up in the end. Maybe Sheldon is really Gollum and will ultimately sacrifice himself to keep it from Bernadette.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

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