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S7 Spoilers

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NO... um, yeah, sure, why not...

...er, what show? Are you saying someone is having an episode..? Ive forgotten what its like to see an episode... Man these gaps have put me off.

So, some bloke meets some sheila, then another bloke meets a different sheila and...

damn, I've lost track...

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Why do people think that Penny is somehow delusional or unrealistic in dreaming of a successful acting career? I mean maybe she'll never win an Oscar, but I don't think that dreaming of that kind of success makes her delusional. I don't think that that's ever really been her primary goal--she really only ever mentioned it once, when she was asking Leonard if he thought she would be successful.

Anyway, I do agree that perhaps Sheldon's obsession with winning a Nobel might have kept him from considering things that might have been more realistic I terms of research, etc., but if everyone only ever thought about what's realistic, where would the human race be? How would we ever have gone to the moon, or come up with the idea of string theory.

I don't think that Sheldon and Penny are delusional just because their dreams are far off or rare. They are dreamers in the sense that what they want isn't the ordinary, everyday goal or the concrete goal, like having some run-of-the-mill job just to pay the bills or to be "practical".

Sometimes the practicality of being a dreamer is simply how hard you are willing to strive, not what other people think you should be doing.

Sorry to go off on a tangent...

 

 

I guess I agree to a certain extent with Koops about the prize being a focus more than the steps to get there, but agree with Phanta that if you don't have a far reaching goal, then how do you motivate yourself to take those steps?   When the prize becomes so much of the driving factor, Koops is indeed correct.  It means the notoriety is more important than the achievement itself and what it takes to get there then it becomes a delusion.   I am not sure Sheldon and Penny have been quite at that extreme.  They may focus a bit heavier on the prize than the actual day to day steps to get there, but I don't think they are completely delusional about it at all.  I think they sometimes get caught up in the dream and forget that they have to actually perform to get there.  

 

Sheldon has been working (well more in the past than recently) hard, but it has to be very deflating to see your dream dwindling by each step you take.  He has not had a single success since returning from the North Pole and that has to be very discouraging.   Sadly, it is the life of science though.   You have more dead-ends than you have movement forward when looking at your lifetime of work. I can't tell you the number of projects I have seen go no where compared to the successes, yet the successes have been great achievements.  Sheldon just hasn't seen that great achievement since he was 15 and won the award (being the youngest recipient).   So it has to be disheartening to him to feel he has possibly chosen the wrong path. 

 

Delusional is a heavy-handed word, I admit, but I still think Sheldon and Penny's attitudes so far have made them more borderline delusional than dreamers. Dreaming is fine, dreaming gives motivation, but, like Star said in bold, if notoriety and recognition is the main motivator to do something then, especially in science, you're doing it all wrong.

 

Like Star said, science is more about dead ends and being stuck for years than it is about glamour and fame. To say that you need the ambition of winning a prize (one that is not only won very late in a career and only by a very very very small percentage of the scientific community and only for a very very small percentage of projects who happen to end up, often for reasons out of even the scientist's own control, impacting on human knowledge and progress) to do science, means you're not doing it for the right reasons. I can guarantee you that the people who put the man on the moon or developed string theory didn't do it because fame and accolades were their goals but because putting man on the moon or understanding more about the universe is their goal. And that's enough of an ambitious dream to have to motivate these people. And that's what Higgs meant in his interview back when they discovered the Higgs Boson.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think Sheldon's only motivator was the prize, of course. Nobody can stick that long through a scientific career and be good at it (because he has been, despite the recent setbacks) if their only motivation was the prize. But, because of his massive ego and arrogance, I think he has often let his own brilliance, and the need for it to be recognized by others, become a priority over science and made choices that he would have probably done differently or better if he had been less worried about that and more concerned with the science. Like I said, his dismissal of anything that isn't string theory and anyone who isn't Stephen Hawking probably precluded him from following avenues of research that might have been more fruitful to him in the long run. And that's why I believe there would be a beautiful irony in him finding his most fruitful avenue in BIOLOGY of all things. That's one of the fields he mocks the most ("I'm worse than a fraud, I'm practically a biologist) and the one argument that essentially kicked off the entire Shamy relationship (the infamous Neurobiology vs Physics debate). But, like I said, it might not be somewhere the writers want to go. I'm just happy he's being humbled and questioning his career and going through that learning process, or he would have truly probably stagnated in his career forever.

 

Same with Penny.

Edited by koops
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Delusional is a heavy-handed word, I admit, but I still think Sheldon and Penny's attitudes so far have made them more borderline delusional than dreamers. Dreaming is fine, dreaming gives motivation, but, like Star said in bold, if notoriety and recognition is the main motivator to do something then, especially in science, you're doing it all wrong.

Like Star said, science is more about dead ends and being stuck for years than it is about glamour and fame. To say that you need the ambition of winning a prize (one that is not only won very late in a career and only by a very very very small percentage of the scientific community and only for a very very small percentage of projects who happen to end up, often for reasons out of even the scientist's own control, impacting on human knowledge and progress) to do science, means you're not doing it for the right reasons. I can guarantee you that the people who put the man on the moon or developed string theory didn't do it because fame and accolades were their goals but because putting man on the moon or understanding more about the universe is their goal. And that's enough of an ambitious dream to have to motivate these people. And that's what Higgs meant in his interview back when they discovered the Higgs Boson.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think Sheldon's only motivator was the prize, of course. Nobody can stick that long through a scientific career and be good at it (because he has been, despite the recent setbacks) if their only motivation was the prize. But, because of his massive ego and arrogance, I think he has often let his own brilliance, and the need for it to be recognized by others, become a priority over science and made choices that he would have probably done differently or better if he had been less worried about that and more concerned with the science. Like I said, his dismissal of anything that isn't string theory and anyone who isn't Stephen Hawking probably precluded him from following avenues of research that might have been more fruitful to him in the long run. And that's why I believe there would be a beautiful irony in him finding his most fruitful avenue in BIOLOGY of all things. That's one of the fields he mocks the most ("I'm worse than a fraud, I'm practically a biologist) and the one argument that essentially kicked off the entire Shamy relationship (the infamous Neurobiology vs Physics debate). But, like I said, it might not be somewhere the writers want to go. I'm just happy he's being humbled and questioning his career and going through that learning process, or he would have truly probably stagnated in his career forever.

Same with Penny.

I loved your coda. Laconic. Really. I'm chuckling and tripping over the footpaths.

seriously funny.

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Lemme see, if I remember correctly, "how do you propose to do that?" She opens her coat lets it fall to the floor, the camera pans out so we see her from head to toe standing by the door, she doesn't break eye contact, then it pans back to Sheldon and he's looking at her eyes, his lips are closed, he swallows (on the third take) he stares at her for a beat and delivers his final line.

They didn't show him checking her out from head to toe (that I noticed I was a bit distracted by her forearms and bare legs).

When I said he seemed affected is because of the swallow. Maybe Jim's throat is too defined or something but it seemed like a hard swallow to me ...

OH MY (in George Takei's voice)

Thanks!

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Sheldon isn't emotionally stable or mature enough to say Leonard is his best friend. Leonard was his first friend, and maybe That's why Sheldon equates him to being best friends. With that being said Sheldon has caved more to Penny, and she has gone to Sheldon more then anyone else (minus of course their love interest, and evens that's debatable). So what speaks louder Sheldon's actions, or his words.

I agree. I think many mistook the Tuesday taping as this leading to a Sheldon ILY to Amy or something more. And that probably will happen eventually. IMO though it showed the differences in L/P's and S/A's relationship at this point. While both Penny and Sheldon were both mad at their partners it seems Penny moved on quickly and didn't stay mad. Sheldon didn't seem to know what to do and went along with what Penny wanted to do. In regards to Leonard and Amy while Leonard did try to soothe Penny's feeling at first he seemed to quickly move on. Amy seemed so concerned that Sheldon was upset she couldn't enjoy her time with Leonard. Leonard actually mentioned enjoying sitting and talking with Amy. Amy just didn't get that. When Amy mentioned being a little jealous how Penny could convince Sheldon to do things Leonard being his typical Leonard said it was because Penny knew him longer, trying to make her feel better. Though I don't think that was the real reason. The bit with Amy and the Catholic school outfit was the tag at the end. It's not really going to lead to anything IMO. I think more the point is something that Leonard has finally started to learn and Amy needs to learn. No matter what you do your boyfriend/girlfriend is going to get mad at you and at times and there is nothing you can do about it.
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I keep thinking back to the season 3 episode about the musician staying with Penny and how Sheldon told Penny that Leonard thought she was over sensitive, getting mad too easily. This last episode seems to tell me Penny's anger is still at the season 3 level, and Leonard has adjusted more to it.

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I keep thinking back to the season 3 episode about the musician staying with Penny and how Sheldon told Penny that Leonard thought she was over sensitive, getting mad too easily. This last episode seems to tell me Penny's anger is still at the season 3 level, and Leonard has adjusted more to it.

I think though there arguments back in season 3 carried on longer. The musician episode being a good example. I think you are correct that Leonard has adjusted and Penny's immediate reaction is the same but she seems to move on quicker. Sheldon did get involved more in the arguments then not so much now. Edited by Chrismo

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Sheldon calls Leonard his best friend in early season 4. "Leonard, you're my best friend, I've known you for 7 years and I can barely tolerate sitting on the couch with you". Granted, friendships change over the years, but Sheldon was "emotionally stable/mature" enough to say this then. And I'd say he's become more emotionally mature since.

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I keep thinking back to the season 3 episode about the musician staying with Penny and how Sheldon told Penny that Leonard thought she was over sensitive, getting mad too easily. This last episode seems to tell me Penny's anger is still at the season 3 level, and Leonard has adjusted more to it.

Not really. I think Penny's anger levels are relatively normal.

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Sheldon calls Leonard his best friend in early season 4. "Leonard, you're my best friend, I've known you for 7 years and I can barely tolerate sitting on the couch with you". Granted, friendships change over the years, but Sheldon was "emotionally stable/mature" enough to say this then. And I'd say he's become more emotionally mature since.

I don't know if Sheldon has ever been "emotionally stable/mature". I think Leonard is someone, other than his family, who has been able to tolerate him the longest. I think friendships do change over the years. I think their friendship has become more stressful, especially lately with all the changes in their lives. IMO Leonard and Sheldon are not as close as they once were and need to be living apart. To me them living apart would strengthen their friendship more. I think this will eventually happen when Penny finds more stable employment.

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Not really. I think Penny's anger levels are relatively normal.

I think her anger has gone down since season 3. I remember a discussion she had with A/B about men were suppose to cater to her.(paraphrasing) I believe it was the holograph(sp.)episode. Bernadette made the comment about you get what you give (paraphrasing again). Penny was used to getting her way thus I believe that was why Sheldon quoted Leonard during the musician episode. And if I remember correctly she did get mad by that.

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We finally know [for sure] when the Proton episode is coming!!! I'm so excited!!! I can now sleep at night. :p

 

[ I seriously had a dream about it the other night, it has been haunting me... ] :p

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I don't know if Sheldon has ever been "emotionally stable/mature". I think Leonard is someone, other than his family, who has been able to tolerate him the longest. I think friendships do change over the years. I think their friendship has become more stressful, especially lately with all the changes in their lives. IMO Leonard and Sheldon are not as close as they once were and need to be living apart. To me them living apart would strengthen their friendship more. I think this will eventually happen when Penny finds more stable employment.

I think Sheldon and Leonard's strong friendship started become less strong with Penny becoming more of Leonard's life, because he started to resist Sheldon more after he became more involved with her. Then Amy came along and Sheldon had someone who would almost always take his side, something Leonard did less and less of as him and Penny got closer. Penny became Leonard's best friend over Sheldon and Leonard became hers. Now we are seeing Amy become Sheldon's best friend. I don't think you can call Sheldon and Leonard 'Besties' anymore, just good friends.

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I think Sheldon and Leonard's strong friendship started become less strong with Penny becoming more of Leonard's life, because he started to resist Sheldon more after he became more involved with her. Then Amy came along and Sheldon had someone who would almost always take his side, something Leonard did less and less of as him and Penny got closer. Penny became Leonard's best friend over Sheldon and Leonard became hers. Now we are seeing Amy become Sheldon's best friend. I don't think you can call Sheldon and Leonard 'Besties' anymore, just good friends.

 

While your argument makes sense, to me relationships are often apples and oranges and thus can't be directly compared using the mathematical < and >.  (Can you tell I'm a math teacher, lol?)

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While your argument makes sense, to me relationships are often apples and oranges and thus can't be directly compared using the mathematical < and >. (Can you tell I'm a math teacher, lol?)

I'm hopeful Penny dedicates herself to Leonard and ditches Sheldon more often. Happy for Amy to have him. LOL. Like the old gag..."take my friend here. No, really. Take my friend".

But that's where the funny is so...

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