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I don't see how Leonard made Penny change.  Could you elaborate?

Take the Penny in the beginning, and compare her to when L was trying to get her to like what he likes,programmes,etc.

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Take the Penny in the beginning, and compare her to when L was trying to get her to like what he likes,programmes,etc.

 

Oh you mean when he wanted them to watch Buffy together because he thought it was something they would both like?  I still don't see how that is him forcing her to do anything.  Relationships are a compromise no?  Penny has said she's been trying to make Leonard "cooler" so I think it's a give and take for them...

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Take the Penny in the beginning, and compare her to when L was trying to get her to like what he likes,programmes,etc.

And Penny did the same thing. From 6x19, "The Zarnecki Incursion":

Penny: So what’s the thanks I get for turning Leonard into quality boyfriend material?

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

Inculcate and manipulate the other into doing what you want, while making it seem like their idea!

 

again, the problem is, that we never saw Amy manipulate Sheldon into doing what she wanted. The thing on Launch Acceleration was after a lot of this stuff and it didn't really have a particular intent in mind other than progressing their relationship,.

All of the things I mentioned were initiated by Sheldon by himself without Amy manipulating him into anything.

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Oh you mean when he wanted them to watch Buffy together because he thought it was something they would both like?  I still don't see how that is him forcing her to do anything.  Relationships are a compromise no?  Penny has said she's been trying to make Leonard "cooler" so I think it's a give and take for them...

I just see one party P or S, who are not that bothered, but these other two needy ones, force themselves upon them. I could power my P.C. on the energy going into this thread!

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It's a reflection of life. It's more about creating new opportunities. Penny did things her way, then saw a different way of doing things and adopted some of those things that appealed to her. It's not coercive, but it is a lot about propinquity. If I move to Germany I learn German, whether I want to or not. Or I stay isolated.

I agree. But I will say these opportunities were given to her by Leonard which made them more appealing to her.(instead of the threesome suggestion by Howard)

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again, the problem is, that we never saw Amy manipulate Sheldon into doing what she wanted. The thing on Launch Acceleration was after a lot of this stuff and it didn't really have a particular intent in mind other than progressing their relationship,.

All of the things I mentioned were initiated by Sheldon by himself without Amy manipulating him into anything.

 

Well, maybe not never.....  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-4XCZ-qQs0

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

Well, maybe not never.....  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-4XCZ-qQs0

 I did mention that, but as I said, it wasn't with a particular intent in mind other than furthering their relationship a bit. None of the things I mentioned on my previous post to that were consequences of that episode, a lot of them happenned long before that ep.

 

Even then, I don't think it counts as manipulation either as she did say to Sheldon outright what she was going to do and what she wanted to achieve and Sheldon told her to go along with it. How is it manipulation when she said it to him and even got his ok to do it?. My point precisely.

Edited by Sursonica
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It's a reflection of life. It's more about creating new opportunities. Penny did things her way, then saw a different way of doing things and adopted some of those things that appealed to her. It's not coercive, but it is a lot about propinquity. If I move to Germany I learn German, whether I want to or not. Or I stay isolated.

It is hilarious, some people see love blossoming. I see L and A as scheeming,machiavellian, needy types!

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I I could power my P.C. on the energy going into this thread!

Hey Gaqo, it's fun I hope. No exploding heads, because one chooses to play here.. I just woke up and nervously looked here. More experienced netizens have said it will end in tears. I so don't want that. The thread hangs from a thread. Hehehe.

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It is hilarious, some people see love blossoming. I see L and A as scheeming,machiavellian, needy types!

Machiavelli was a bit different. These guys are just trying to find happiness. Also they have doors and locks, so they can choose not participate. Penny used to do that, but some odd guy imposed his will and actually broke into her home, to clean and impose his paradigm. How is that not coercive?

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Machiavelli was a bit different. These guys are just trying to find happiness. Also they have doors and locks, so they can choose not participate. Penny used to do that, but some odd guy imposed his will and actually broke into her home, to clean and impose his paradigm. How is that not coercive?

 

I just watched that episode last night.  "If you have time to lean, you have time to clean".... :icon_razz:

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I know I will probably get shot down for saying this, but I often find with romantic relationships in TBBT that there is a often lack of deep-rooted affection. There's buddy affection and family affection, but I never really feel the love between the couples (apart from Howard and Bernadette). To me Lenny seems like a bit of a sympathy/convenience pairing. I know I keep saying this, but I can't see what the two of them talk about! As for the Shamy, I thought there was more of a fondness emanating (Is that the right word? It doesn't feel right) from Sheldon towards Amy when they were just friends.

Why should you get shot down? You didn't make any specific claim, just your feeling on the matter. All of us probably feel what, if any, of the love flowing from the characters. You're not saying there isn't any love, just you don't feel it.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

I know I will probably get shot down for saying this, but I often find with romantic relationships in TBBT that there is a often lack of deep-rooted affection. There's buddy affection and family affection, but I never really feel the love between the couples (apart from Howard and Bernadette). To me Lenny seems like a bit of a sympathy/convenience pairing. I know I keep saying this, but I can't see what the two of them talk about! As for the Shamy, I thought there was more of a fondness emanating (Is that the right word? It doesn't feel right) from Sheldon towards Amy when they were just friends.

 

I kinda agree with this, despite me shipping Shamy.

Leonard/Penny I could never get into them because of it, because even to this day, and despite Penny saying "ILY" to Leonard, it doesn't come across as if she means it to me. I do feel love from Leonard to Penny, but I just don't see it the other way around.

 

And the Shamy well, I agree with certain reservations. During S6 they did lose in part that dynamic that they had in S4 and S5 that made them not only friends and then boyfriend/girlfriend but also partners in crime and each other's rock to rely on. That is my main qualm on S6.

Edited by Sursonica
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I just worry when posting things about relationships (particularly the delicate Shamy) that my opinions will be dismissed as slander! It's happened before.

I've imagined this spot as a soap bubble. As soon as the discourse gets uncivil, it should pop and disappear, without any explanation. That would be sad. But civilisation is precarious without institutions. So this is an experiment.

And, Shamy is not so delicate. It (sheldon and amy) survives, but Mr Molaro hinted it might be pruned a bit. Some of its supporters are enthusiastic, is all.

Which segues into the whole sad labelling thing. Someone please post the Life of Brian "We are all individuals" clip. Hehehe

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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I just worry when posting things about relationships (particularly the delicate Shamy) that my opinions will be dismissed as slander! It's happened before.

I can get testy if you were to make a specific claim, and didn't have the evidence for it (say, something like Penny and Leonard shouldn't be together because they don't love each other) or you claim a scene could only have the meaning you want it to have. But, you said it was your feelings, those are different for everyone.

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I kinda agree with this, despite me shipping Shamy.

Leonard/Penny I could never get into them because of it, because even to this day, and despite Penny saying "ILY" to Leonard, it doesn't come across as if she means it to me. I do feel love from Leonard to Penny, but I just don't see it the other way around.

.

I confess, I had doubts. When they didn't reinstate the cute bedroom scenes it bothered me. But then they put in the happy moments of domesticity. Then I was good again. (So manipulatable, sigh)

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Guest DroneInTheSun

And the Shamy well, I agree with certain reservations. During S6 they did lose in part that dynamic that they had in S4 and S5 that made them not only friends and then boyfriend/girlfriend but also partners in crime and each other's rock to rely on. That is my main qualm on S6.

 

Yes on that! That's the reason why The Parking Lot Escalation is my favourite Shamy-episode of the sixth season. It was like S4/S5 Shamy all over again.

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Yes on that! That's the reason why The Parking Lot Escalation is my favourite Shamy-episode of the sixth season. It was like S4/S5 Shamy all over again.

I'm wondering if pausing some of the relationship themes - at a satisfying point - and letting the show play comedy hi-jinks for a couple of years might be on the cards. Crudely put, if everyone got hooked up, then just lived at that level would the lack of URST kill the show?

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I just see one party P or S, who are not that bothered, but these other two needy ones, force themselves upon them. I could power my P.C. on the energy going into this thread!

When did either Leonard or Amy force themselves on anyone, and if they did, why hasn't anyone pressed charges against them and sent them to jail?   That allegation also assumes that Sheldon and Penny would actually allow them to do that to them.  Frankly, this paints all four of them in a pretty bad light, particularly Amy and Leonard.

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When did either Leonard or Amy force themselves on anyone, and if they did, why hasn't anyone pressed charges against them and sent them to jail? That allegation also assumes that Sheldon and Penny would actually allow them to do that to them. Frankly, this paints all four of them in a pretty bad light, particularly Amy and Leonard.

That's a literalist reading of the expression "forced". I read it as more metaphorical. But Penny did forgive the break and enter. If Sheldon were a vampire she'd of been safer. Lol.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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It is hilarious, some people see love blossoming. I see L and A as scheeming,machiavellian, needy types!

Everyone sees what they want to see. Just reading this forum confirms that.

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I got very tired of the Shenny after a while.

And now I wait for the heated replies to come...

 

Few are going to give you heated replies about being tired of the "Shenny".

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