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The Shamy - Season 7 Spoilers Only Discussion Thread


rachelshamyfan
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Oh boy... I'm not even sure where to start.

 

Firstly, I will say that this episode as a whole doesn't really bother me. When I first read the plot, I did raise an eyebrow and wondered where the heck the writers where taking this but I am not upset over it because I wholeheartedly believe that big things are headed are our way. So, I will throw them a bone on this one given that didn't screw up the past few episodes.

 

About Sheldon's hand holding remark, I think he just doesn't like it, plain and simple. I can't say that I blame him one bit, I hate holding hands, it's sweaty and gross. As far as her 'talking too much', I don't really understand where that comment is coming from because he never shuts his hole, but I initially took it as he is frustrated with how he feels for her and just spouts off when the opportunity arises. There is some internal conflict going on. Idk if I am making my point clearly, hopefully I am.

 

Amy in the school girl uniform, ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. WOW. THANK YOU TO WHOEVER HAD THIS IDEA. I don't think it really makes sense but I will not complain if I get to see Mayim dressed up. I hope she brings that outfit to Miami with her

 

And Sheldon is reacting to her.... so many thoughts. My mind is running wild but I'll save that for fanfiction.

 

All in all, I think this episode is one that will play out better on screen.

Edited by denajeanx

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@Queenfisher. I don't doubt that there is truth in the fact that Sheldon does occasionally open up to Penny (and Leonard) and that she gets him to do stuff. The thing is, there is an equal amount of evidence to say that he does the same, if not more, with Amy, that the writers are willing to overlook if they don't serve the plot they want to tell. This week they needed that psychic scene to be set up and they really want to state the obvious: Sheldon needs to open up, Amy wants more intimacy. So they used this "insecurity" excuse to get that point across. But, looking at the story, there's very little, if anything, that Amy should be insecure about. Quite the contrary. 

 

1. Penny & Sheldon's closeness.

 

Sheldon and Penny talk about mundane things because they have nothing else in common. They're obviously not going to talk physics or intellectual topics. If we really have to nitpick, Sheldon and Leonard are closer because they both have stuff in common and talk casual stuff. I also don't see how casual stuff = deeper connection. 

 

As for Shamy not talking about personal/mundane things, I don't think that's true either. Just a few examples. 4x21, they talked about how uncomfortable Sheldon was with Priya. 5x06, they talked about how upset he was that his mother was ignoring him (although he was in denial). 5x08, he was there for her when she was upset over Penny and Bernadette, 6x02 they were involved in the whole Lenny debacle, 6x14 had nothing to do with their relationship but he opened up to her about his work, 6x20 (despite the horrible lines at the beginning) actually had them team up for his career, and that's not counting eps from this season like 7x02, 7x04, 7x07, 7x08, the new Proton ep coming up etc.

 

Penny and Sheldon have gotten closer over the summer and all, but it's still clear to me that Penny mostly clings to Sheldon when she's upset at Leonard (every single S/P plot this season was based on that: Premiere, Scavenger, Recalibration, and now this). In the Premiere it was clear that Penny and Sheldon had never really been open since she asks him to talk about themselves and he brings up Youtube videos like he has no clue what she means. And even in this episode. What is Sheldon open to her about exactly? He says that everything that comes out of her is just "blah blah blah", he mocks her fortune cookie telling her nobody would come to her for wisdom and mocks both Penny's intelligence and the psychic in one go. That is not opening up. 

 

Do I think Penny and Sheldon are good friends? Absolutely. Do I think they have some personality traits in common that they can relate on? Absolutely. But if there is a reason why Sheldon is more "open" to her, or to Leonard (because let's not forget Amy talked about Leonard too) is because Lenny are friends to him and it's easier to be open to friends than to a romantic interest because there's a lot less baggage and expectations and pressure and all.

 

2. Psychics

 

Amy has been getting Sheldon out of his comfort zone since the very beginning of their relationship. They had not one, not two, but three episodes just this season in which it was specifically pointed out how much of that Amy has done in the past three years: Cooper Extraction, V-day and Table. And what is more out of his comfort zone than being in a romantic relationship, with all that entails? "Amy has made me into a more affectionate, open minded person". Ineed.

 

Penny got him to do stuff in the past, and probably always will, in her own way. And so does Leonard. But other than V-day, where, btw, the manipulation involved getting romance out of the trip, not going onto the trip in the first place, Amy has her own way to get Sheldon to get out of his comfort zone, which is through reasoning and pointing out positives to him. The only reason Amy hasn't gotten him to do something absurd like yoga or going to a psychic is because she's not that different from him and would never do that to start with. 

 

3. Feelings.

 

I agree on this point, but that is also very much true on Amy's part too. Has she ever been really open to him about her feelings? She's been open about wanting intimacy and romance. But, other than when she has the occasional outburst, she has never put her feelings on the table and she has never told him she loves him either. Point in case, this specific episode, where she was talking to Sheldon and, where the line called for her to say "but I love you", she turned to Penny and went "but we love you". In that regard, she's very much the pot calling the kettle. I'd say Sheldon has been more open about how he feels about her than she has, in a way.

 

 

I think the writers had a point that they wanted to hammer home this week, and they did it. My question is why. Even if it leads to big things in the finale, it isn't anything that we didn't know about already. *shurgs*

 

As for the "She talks too much" line, it bothered me at first, but then I realized it sounds just like the classic list of flaws couples have for each other. It IS true that Amy talks a lot. She's always had. And it totally is a "pot calling the kettle" thing, like Dena was saying. He talks constantly. So, in a way, it's kind of endearing. Just one more thing they have in common :p

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I'm really not sure how I feel about the report. Maybe I'll have a stronger opinion when more details come out about the tag scene, but right now I'm a little confused. They are emphasizing sex strongly, which I mean, I don't have a problem with  :biggrin: ,but a neon site would be more subtle lol It seems a bit out of place for Amy to dress up like that when she has yet to response fully to kissing him. But, as others have mentioned, I too believe this is to explicitly show Sheldon's physical attraction to her. Something has definitely changed since the kiss. We've gonna (hopefully) see Sheldon come to terms with sexual desire for the first time, and struggle with those urges he can't control. He's gonna resist, but it will get harder and harder for him to do so! Kissing has opened up a whole new side of their relationship, and it's definitely leading to something big for them in the finale.

 

I love that the psychic told him Amy is basically the key to his happiness. Just give in Sheldon, even a psychic wants you too!  Even though it's obvious as hell and I wish it couldn't been a little subtler, at least it's basically telling the audience (and shenny shippers) that THIS is the relationship that Sheldon is meant to be in. Even if there are a few bumps along the road, true happiness is in his relationship with Amy. He just needs to overcome his intimacy issues, which may be sooner than I first thought!

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@Queenfisher. I don't doubt that there is truth in the fact that Sheldon does occasionally open up to Penny (and Leonard) and that she gets him to do stuff. The thing is, there is an equal amount of evidence to say that he does the same, if not more, with Amy, that the writers are willing to overlook if they don't serve the plot they want to tell. This week they needed that psychic scene to be set up and they really want to state the obvious: Sheldon needs to open up, Amy wants more intimacy. So they used this "insecurity" excuse to get that point across. But, looking at the story, there's very little, if anything, that Amy should be insecure about. Quite the contrary. 

 

1. Penny & Sheldon's closeness.

 

Sheldon and Penny talk about mundane things because they have nothing else in common. They're obviously not going to talk physics or intellectual topics. If we really have to nitpick, Sheldon and Leonard are closer because they both have stuff in common and talk casual stuff. I also don't see how casual stuff = deeper connection. 

 

As for Shamy not talking about personal/mundane things, I don't think that's true either. Just a few examples. 4x21, they talked about how uncomfortable Sheldon was with Priya. 5x06, they talked about how upset he was that his mother was ignoring him (although he was in denial). 5x08, he was there for her when she was upset over Penny and Bernadette, 6x02 they were involved in the whole Lenny debacle, 6x14 had nothing to do with their relationship but he opened up to her about his work, 6x20 (despite the horrible lines at the beginning) actually had them team up for his career, and that's not counting eps from this season like 7x02, 7x04, 7x07, 7x08, the new Proton ep coming up etc.

 

Penny and Sheldon have gotten closer over the summer and all, but it's still clear to me that Penny mostly clings to Sheldon when she's upset at Leonard (every single S/P plot this season was based on that: Premiere, Scavenger, Recalibration, and now this). In the Premiere it was clear that Penny and Sheldon had never really been open since she asks him to talk about themselves and he brings up Youtube videos like he has no clue what she means. And even in this episode. What is Sheldon open to her about exactly? He says that everything that comes out of her is just "blah blah blah", he mocks her fortune cookie telling her nobody would come to her for wisdom and mocks both Penny's intelligence and the psychic in one go. That is not opening up. 

 

Do I think Penny and Sheldon are good friends? Absolutely. Do I think they have some personality traits in common that they can relate on? Absolutely. But if there is a reason why Sheldon is more "open" to her, or to Leonard (because let's not forget Amy talked about Leonard too) is because Lenny are friends to him and it's easier to be open to friends than to a romantic interest because there's a lot less baggage and expectations and pressure and all.

 

2. Psychics

 

Amy has been getting Sheldon out of his comfort zone since the very beginning of their relationship. They had not one, not two, but three episodes just this season in which it was specifically pointed out how much of that Amy has done in the past three years: Cooper Extraction, V-day and Table. And what is more out of his comfort zone than being in a romantic relationship, with all that entails? "Amy has made me into a more affectionate, open minded person". Ineed.

 

Penny got him to do stuff in the past, and probably always will, in her own way. And so does Leonard. But other than V-day, where, btw, the manipulation involved getting romance out of the trip, not going onto the trip in the first place, Amy has her own way to get Sheldon to get out of his comfort zone, which is through reasoning and pointing out positives to him. The only reason Amy hasn't gotten him to do something absurd like yoga or going to a psychic is because she's not that different from him and would never do that to start with. 

 

3. Feelings.

 

I agree on this point, but that is also very much true on Amy's part too. Has she ever been really open to him about her feelings? She's been open about wanting intimacy and romance. But, other than when she has the occasional outburst, she has never put her feelings on the table and she has never told him she loves him either. Point in case, this specific episode, where she was talking to Sheldon and, where the line called for her to say "but I love you", she turned to Penny and went "but we love you". In that regard, she's very much the pot calling the kettle. I'd say Sheldon has been more open about how he feels about her than she has, in a way.

 

 

I think the writers had a point that they wanted to hammer home this week, and they did it. My question is why. Even if it leads to big things in the finale, it isn't anything that we didn't know about already. *shurgs*

 

As for the "She talks too much" line, it bothered me at first, but then I realized it sounds just like the classic list of flaws couples have for each other. It IS true that Amy talks a lot. She's always had. And it totally is a "pot calling the kettle" thing, like Dena was saying. He talks constantly. So, in a way, it's kind of endearing. Just one more thing they have in common :p

As always Koops, you point out things I didn't even think of~! You have a lot of great points and I absoutely agree, especially on the last bit about their feelings. I don't think Amy has initiated anything, maybe except hand holding. I think Amy has this underlying fear of rejection stemming from her childhood. We've seen how Amy acts towards people important to her (like Penny) how she'd do anything so they wont be mad at her and cast her aside. She's gotten more confident with Penny, but not with Sheldon because, as koops pointed out, their relationships are different. I am really hoping for a heartwarming season finale.

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I think the writers had a point that they wanted to hammer home this week, and they did it. My question is why. Even if it leads to big things in the finale, it isn't anything that we didn't know about already. *shurgs*

 

 

 

 

This.

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Can somebody please, pretty please, with sugar and sprinkles on top, point me to a taping report? I can't find it in the proper thread and I'm dying to read it. ;-; thank you!

*offers cookies to whoever helps this hopeless Shamy shipper*

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Can somebody please, pretty please, with sugar and sprinkles on top, point me to a taping report? I can't find it in the proper thread and I'm dying to read it. ;-; thank you!

*offers cookies to whoever helps this hopeless Shamy shipper*

 

In the Season 7 spoilers thread....page 430 has the summary from chat of the whole episode and page 431 has half of the full report. More should be up later.

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In the Season 7 spoilers thread....page 430 has the summary from chat of the whole episode and page 431 has half of the full report. More should be up later.

 

*gives you the biggest basket of cookies ever*

You're an angel and deserve all the chocolate in the world :3 THANK YOU!

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I don't think Amy has initiated anything, maybe except hand holding. I think Amy has this underlying fear of rejection stemming from her childhood.

Sheldon initiated their first handholding ;)

The new taping report reminds me the turn-the table things we discussed before. Of course it will be interesting to see Amy hesitate and back off, but I'm afraid the writters had already turned the table. In season4, Sheldon was the pushing one. This sometimes makes me feel a little bad.

Edited by TwinkleTwinkleTiara

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Some random thoughts:

 

Yay! I got quoted for the first time!  :)

 

Sooo curious about Sheldon's reaction to Amy's outfit and how he delivers the last line in the tag--if he's trying to sound annoyed, but there's a hint of desire there. If that's what they're going for, I'm sure Mr. Parsons will act the heck out of it. I have to make sure I set my DVR for extra time so it doesn't get cut off.

 

I agree about the psychic thing being a little too obvious a setup. I would have preferred Sheldon hear similar advice from his Mom or his Meemaw regarding opening up to Amy about his feelings.

 

Looking forward so much to SIK 2.0 tomorrow! Everyone keeps saying that Amy doesn't respond to the kiss, but I have to see the whole thing for myself ;) She was too stunned by the first one, so I'll give her a pass.

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A lot of great points, but I think one thing to keep in mind with Sheldon and Amy is that overcoming issues with intimacy is going to be a continuous work in progress. The fear of rejection and abandonment isn't just going to disappear (even when they kiss, have their emotional talks, say I love you, etc.), and I think that with each new step Sheldon takes toward becoming more emotionally intimate and mature with Amy and others, you're also going to see him close back up. With Sheldon, you have to meet him where's he's at and respect that it's going to be scary especially for him to put himself out on the limb, and I think you have to give him room and space to sometimes go backwards when he feels he goes out too far (and truly, this all applies to Amy as well, and really to all couples). With each new experience he has, Sheldon seems like the type that he is going to process it and feel differently about it depending upon the mood of the day. Some days, he will feel bold, and other days, he's going to crawl back into his shell. because he feels too exposed. I think Sheldon fronts a lot, and that was especially evident in the episode where he tried to break up with her. He wanted to know why she didn't act out, but instead of being forthright, he put on this uncaring front and tried to lead her into an explanation. Sheldon really has a strong sense of self-preservation, so when it comes to kissing or new experiences, I think he is definitely the type that will temper his initial excitement after he processes it. He really reminds of the type that never likes to get too emotionally high or excited because he fears the fall and being caught off guard by disappointment, so instead he tries to lead his relationships in a very controlled, tempered way.

With all of that said, I totally agree with Koops above. For them to make progress, Sheldon and Amy really do need to have a heart-to-heart. If anything, I think Amy is probably envious of that aspect of Sheldon and Penny's relationship. There isn't a lot to explore in that relationship because they've already had their heart-to-heart as what it means to be each others' friend. Amy and Sheldon still haven't really laid it all out on the table, and as we've established, the stakes in doing that is so much higher.  And really, Sheldon and Leonard's relationship is in a very similar boat (as is Penny and Leonard's). There are still a lot of lingering things that have been left unsaid. But those tensions are what makes for compelling TV!!

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Welcome Lib!  :bye:    I like your analysis and Phanta's comments as well on the differences between his relationship with Penny and Amy.  Very insightful.

 

I was thinking about this whole comment about "talking too much" and not liking the hand holding and here are some thoughts about it.   We see the Psychic tell Sheldon [talking about the "dark haired woman he is romantically involved with] "You are having difficulty being close to her" and she says as well "He [meaning Sheldon in response to Penny questioning what he should do] He should give himself to this relationship.   Once he does, all his other pursuits will come into focus."  Penny then says "Sheldon, you get that?  Amy is the key to your happiness."  and the psychic says "Exactly.  Personally, professionally -- everything will fall into place once you commit to this woman."   It is here that Sheldon calls it all malarkey and leaves, but Penny tells the psychic that she hit a nerve (cluing the audience in that she really did hit a nerve with him).  

 

Okay, so think about what we have seen so far since Amy was introduced.  We see a Sheldon become immediately attached to Amy and truly enjoy everything about her.  We see him write up a detailed Relationship Agreement, ask her to he girlfriend and present her with it.   We then see him start to develop feelings of affection for her and clearly begin to fight his growing feelings of affection for her (S6 latter half).   Finally he realizes the fight is futile and enjoys having feelings of affections for her and begins to brag about his being in a relationship with her and that it is "physical... holding hands on hot days even".   He finally kisses her (initially brought on while trying to win an argument) and liked it.   So he adds kissing to their relationship.   But through ALL of this, Sheldon has yet to care about Amy's thoughts, aspirations, dreams, etc.  

 

Sheldon has made his dreams clear.  He wants the Nobel Prize.  He wants to have everyone know he is brilliant.   He believes he chose the higher calling and higher order Science.   He has waved off Amy's work as unimportant (at least to her and sometimes to Penny).  Sometimes he will brag about her to others, but not where she knows he has done so.  So to her, he could care less about her work, about her aspirations, about her hobbies, etc.   He always does everything "favoring him".   He never takes interest in her, well not at least since he first was getting to know her and learned about her doing surgery on her own web feet.  But he really has dismissed everything that makes Amy who she is.  He has even dismissed her family without ever knowing a thing about them.  He has never asked about her family.

 

Therefore, I think the finale is going to be about a selfless Sheldon. One that finds that he needs to care about Amy truly in every way.  That means listening to her, encouraging her, showing her that she means the world to him and that he loves all of her, including her love for literature, hunting men for kill as amusement, her monkeys, her family, her field of study and yes her body, mind and soul.   We need to see him totally commit that it is not a one-sided relationship (which it has pretty much been).   Sure he has loosened up on his germaphobia for her, but his heart has held back really caring about the things that make Amy tick.   Sure he adores her, but he doesn't want to hear about her day or her studies or her aspirations or hobbies and anything that interests her.  He wants her listening to him always.   This is key.  This is why she feels her relationship lacks intimacy.   He feels they are very intimate because she has always been the one there encouraging him, supporting him, listening to him, and doing activities he loves.   But she has not gotten the same back.

 

Amy has confused sexual intimacy with true intimacy.  She is missing someone loving her and caring about her ups and downs and her life.   Her sneaking out to meet Bernadette tells me that she was really needing that kind of relationship  Bernie does listen to her and does share common interests with her.   So after hearing Sheldon drag on and on about himself, she needed someone to ask about her.  Bernie was a willing participant to help listen.  

 

Amy mentioning about being jealous does begin to make sense when you think about it.   She is jealous because Sheldon does listen to Penny talk about her hopes, dreams, aspirations and offers her advice and often sides with her on arguments that show he understands Penny.  (Which by the way, I preferred the polar opposites than BFF version of these two).   So Amy is feeling a bit like she is being left out.   Sheldon gets Penny, he spends time knowing her.   But for all the hours he spends with Amy, he doesn't show any interest in the full Amy.   She feels squelched out.   So it makes sense that she would envy their relationship.  She wants Sheldon to care about her hopes and dreams (which I do think a part of him does care about, but he doesn't want to discuss or talk about for some reason).   She needs him to show enough caring that he will listen.  He will comfort her when things go wrong at work, and cheer her on when she accomplishes big things.

 

Thinking back about the Tiara episode...this was the first evidence that this would be a problem for them in achieving full intimacy.   So the psychic was telling him the right thing here.   It is all about Sheldon being less selfish and giving in to a truly loving and intimate relationship with Amy which means more than just the physical side, but truly emotionally giving in and being selfless.

Edited by stardustmelody

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I didn't mind Sheldon's comments about handholding and that she talks too much. First he always complained about handholding, it's nothing new. Second Sheldon often says things that are clearly untrue. Like when he tells Leonard that he 'suffered in silence' during his first attempts at a relationship with Penny, which is clearly a big fat lie lol. So it doesn't matter to me that he says Amy talks too much, when it's actually quite the contrary seeing as she would rather spend time away from him because of it.

 

Also doesn't bother me that Amy chooses to lie and go out with Bernadette. Sometimes when my husband gets too much, I just feel like not coming home from work, or ignore him entirely (much harder when you live together). Better than putting up with his nonsense and becoming snarky about it.

Edited by pisquenta

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Thinking back about the Tiara episode...this was the first evidence that this would be a problem for them in achieving full intimacy.   So the psychic was telling him the right thing here.   It is all about Sheldon being less selfish and giving in to a truly loving and intimate relationship with Amy which means more than just the physical side, but truly emotionally giving in and being selfless.

 

Just hit me right in the feels, why don'tcha? I'm seriously crying because I can only imagine how they will pull this off and make it sweet.

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Just hit me right in the feels, why don'tcha? I'm seriously crying because I can only imagine how they will pull this off and make it sweet.

 

I do think they will make it incredibly sweet and we will all be gushing and swooning.  I think they have been building stepping stones to it and that this was an important (even if slightly odd at first and maybe even not viewed positively at first) episode.   It is revealing a huge underlying problem between them and gives us insight as to where they are heading in the finale and in S8. I didn't mind the episode before when I read the reports last night/early morning, but now I am liking it even more when I realize its importance.

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I agree that Sheldon has not done anything selfless for Amy in a long time, that it's way overdue and and that part of his journey is to learn to be more caring and empathic towards her. But I also think the whole Sheldon/Penny thing is being blown out of proportion. It's sounding as if these two sit down talking and sharing deep secrets when, truly, for the most part we see Penny trying to engage Sheldon into conversation and Sheldon shooting her down. That doesn't always happen, of course, there are moments where they do bond and relate, but it's not the norm really. Even in this episode, there isn't one moment where Sheldon really opens up to Penny, if anything, she's once again trying to engage him in conversation. It's not as if Sheldon is spending his time listening to Penny's problems and having heart-to-heart with her and helping her solve her issues. When he does say something to make her feel better, it's usually accidental. 

 

I do agree that they've gone far too long without discussing what they feel for each other. They have discussed their future and all eventualities (including intelligent dog uprising) and put every little detail of their relationship down in the agreement, and they have always been honest and upfront with the other about the intellectual and ethical aspects of their relationship, what they like and dislike, want and don't want. But they have never ever discussed what they are feeling in all this. And that needs to happen soon.

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I agree that Sheldon has not done anything selfless for Amy in a long time, that it's way overdue and and that part of his journey is to learn to be more caring and empathic towards her. But I also think the whole Sheldon/Penny thing is being blown out of proportion. It's sounding as if these two sit down talking and sharing deep secrets when, truly, for the most part we see Penny trying to engage Sheldon into conversation and Sheldon shooting her down. That doesn't always happen, of course, there are moments where they do bond and relate, but it's not the norm really. Even in this episode, there isn't one moment where Sheldon really opens up to Penny, if anything, she's once again trying to engage him in conversation. It's not as if Sheldon is spending his time listening to Penny's problems and having heart-to-heart with her and helping her solve her issues. When he does say something to make her feel better, it's usually accidental. 

 

I do agree that they've gone far too long without discussing what they feel for each other. They have discussed their future and all eventualities (including intelligent dog uprising) and put every little detail of their relationship down in the agreement, and they have always been honest and upfront with the other about the intellectual and ethical aspects of their relationship, what they like and dislike, want and don't want. But they have never ever discussed what they are feeling in all this. And that needs to happen soon.

 

 

it is all about perception I think.  I agree with everything you say here, but Amy probably views it slightly different because when you care about someone you do "skew" events sometimes in your mind.  She cares so much for Sheldon and wants him to love her as much as she loves him.  I think he does, in his own weird way, but she doesn't sense it or feel it because he is so selfish and dismisses her feelings all the time.  She is 'perceiving' that to not be the case with Penny though and that is the difference.  What we see and what she perceives are likely going to be slightly different because she is emotionally invested in him and she doesn't have a view of half or more even of the things we see when it comes to the Sheldon/Penny friendship.  She only hears what Penny tells her and sees him taking sides with Penny against her (or Leonard) at times.  So you can understand her skewed perception.   I think that is what the writers are trying to bring out with the comment.  It came out of left field to the viewer because we have a fuller picture than Amy does and because we have never seen any incident of it.  

 

But I really sat and thought about the words being chosen in this episode and it started to click and make sense.  I think the intimacy issue is key and it all needs to show Sheldon "giving" and being less selfish and more caring toward her.

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I'd really like a make out session for the finale but there's a hint from the taping report which you guys already pointed out that it's more likely to be an ILY for the finale. 

I agree that at this point it would be better to treat emotional aspect in the relationship before going further in the physical step. 

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