Spoilers The Shamy - Season 7 Spoilers Only Discussion Thread

[stardustmelody]

I have a feeling that the reviewers of this episode are also going to ask what happened on it because as many have said, it feels like going backward when everything was progressing nicely.   It feels very 'off' and while it may be entertaining, it still comes out in left field and makes you ask "why" when just a couple of episodes earlier Sheldon was belaboring the game console question that he isn't using Amy as his sounding board for his career question.  It really makes you scratch your head and realize they are just trying to force another Sheldon/Penny thing and the audience is wising up to that kind of writing and not very happy when they force story like that.   It really is very obvious it doesn't work.  

 

Koops you are right about the dismissing Amy and Leonard advice in favor of Penny's "chill".  It is very OOC and when they get so far out of character it is hard to swallow.

[Irene]

While I think that the Anything Can Happen episode will be funny and enjoyable in general the little things just annoy me. When we read the report the fact that Amy was fed up with Sheldon complaining about his work and her complaining about him not being comfortable struck me as really odd. But I doubt it is hypocritical. I mean come on she obviously does care about his work and his future and she is there talking over and over about it but she probably wanted one evening to relax. It's not that bad. Especially if we take into account that she had to listen at the exact same thing from Penny cause that's what friends do. She didn't need to lie obviously and I believe she shouldn't have but she never meant for him to know and she felt really bad that she did. And I doubt Sheldon or Penny would be ok with Bernie and Amy hanging out alone. I am not trying to excuse Amy I too wondered why she complained. But I just understand her it wasn't such a terrible thing after all. Personaly I am way more annoyed by her line about being jealous of Penny cause it is just so absurd. I mean they did make a point at Cooper Extraction that he cares about her and listens at her and that she finally found out. Are they trying to make the same point again??? Plus Sheldon's indifference was a bit disturbing but at least I can head canon that as him being grumpy cause he couldn't take care of sick Amy and probably put vapor rub all over her chest

 

I found her deception very OOC after this seasons Raiders episode. Amy explicitly tells Sheldon when he's mad/upset, not to act like a passive aggressive asshat (in nicer words) but to talk to her about it. Sheldon says something about his parents' dysfunctional way of relating and Amy says "Well, that's not how we are going to do it." So why couldn't Amy simply tell him she needed a night out with a girlfriend?

[Shamyyes]

I agree this episode (without being actually seen) does seem"unnecessary".  I am anxious about the upcoming taping reports.  Not only because hiatus is here but I was feeling so positive but not so much now.

[Anita Rez]

Hallelujah! This psychic thing is just so OOC and stupid and unnecessary. Instead of making Amy look hypocritical in this episode I wish they would have shown her helping Sheldon with his career crisis, maybe show them having an honest conversation about it. In the murder mystery thing Amy said the RA covers what happens if they have career changes! What happened to that! They've obviously talked about it if it's in the RA but the writers have obviously forgotten about that one line that showed so much progress in their relationship and stomped on it like they stomped on all progress this whole episode! Just like forgot that in the raiders episode Amy said they should tell each other when there upset with the other. Stomp! And Amy being jealous? Twice this season it's been mentioned how much of an effect Amy has on Sheldon. Stomp! Two steps forward, three steps back. Just ugh. Ok I'm done talking about this.

Yes!  And even though she reminded Sheldon he kisses her on date night, he looked very happy to do it, so the jealously makes no sense whatsoever.  And neither Leonard or Penny asked Sheldon why he wasn't taking care of Amy since she was sick, which I find odd since I guarantee they know it's part of the relationship agreement.

 

Gee, Sheldon "punished" Amy the last time she lied to him.  I wonder if she's going to get "punished" again, LOL?

[Kathy2611]

I just don't understand the writers thinking on this!! They just renewed for three years and millions of dollars are on the line and yet they're willing to screw with these characters and the OOC actions. Do they not think the audience pays attention to the inconsistency!! All they're going to do is piss everybody off. Shamy shippers for screwing with our Shamy and Shenny shippers for tangling the carrot yet again without letting them have a bite. WTF!!!

[Irene]

Yes! And even though she reminded Sheldon he kisses her on date night, he looked very happy to do it, so the jealously makes no sense whatsoever. And neither Leonard or Penny asked Sheldon why he wasn't taking care of Amy since she was sick, which I find odd since I guarantee they know it's part of the relationship agreement.

Gee, Sheldon "punished" Amy the last time she lied to him. I wonder if she's going to get "punished" again, LOL?

Well, she's got the Catholic school girl outfit for it now. Lol

[MariaAlbina]

 

Gee, Sheldon "punished" Amy the last time she lied to him.  I wonder if she's going to get "punished" again, LOL?

 

 

Oh my lanta, I would love that. I hear angels singing just thinking about it.

Edited April 7, 2014 by MariaAlbina

[Susana Alcira]

Please, don´t forget AMY´s dream (the laundry scene) in Cooper Extraction! She is a little jealous of Penny and she shows it in front of the entire gang (Stuart included) Deep, deep in their hearts, women in love don´t like their boyfriends or husbands have a close relationship with a long time female friend (and it goes for men, too) Moreover, Amy is not COMPLETLY sure about how strong are Sheldon´s feelings for her. I think, in part, she hesitates during his kisses because of that. She is IN LOVE with him, but she is not totally sure if he loves her in the way she loves him! Oh, I adore Amy´character and I love the way Mayim plays it!! It is awesome!

Edited April 7, 2014 by Susana Alcira Cairó

[Anita Rez]

Please, don´t forget AMY´s dream (the laundry scene) in Cooper Extraction! She is a little jealous of Penny and she shows it in front of the entire gang (Stuart included) Deep, deep in their hearts, women in love don´t like their boyfriends or husbands have a close relationship with a long time female friend (and it goes for men, too) Moreover, Amy is not COMPLETLY sure about how strong are Sheldon´s feelings for her. I think, in part, she hesitates during his kisses because of that. She is IN LOVE with him, but she is not totally sure if he loves her in the way she loves him! Oh, I adore Amy´character and I love the way Mayim plays it!! It is awesome!

I still need to see this one.  Any idea where I can find a link to it?

[Irene]

I still need to see this one.  Any idea where I can find a link to it?

 

This isn't the whole episode, just Amy's dream--the Sheldon/Penny laundry room scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxgc1s8wj7c

[MariaAlbina]

See, I didn't take Amy's 'dream' as her being jealous of Penny. She made it clear that she believed Sheldon was NOT interested in Penny no matter how disrobed she was and that he preferred Amy, 'the cute bespectacled neuroscientist with hair the color of mud.'

[Susana Alcira]

But in the dream Penny WAS interested in Sheldon! That´s the point!!!

[Irene]

See, I didn't take Amy's 'dream' as her being jealous of Penny. She made it clear that she believed Sheldon was NOT interested in Penny no matter how disrobed she was and that he preferred Amy, 'the cute bespectacled neuroscientist with hair the color of mud.'

Odd that Sheldon says "neuroscientist" not "neurobiologist." Mayim is the former; Amy the latter.

[Maddie]

I didn't take the dream as Amy being jealous of Penny, either. But I do think Amy is jealous of Penny, just in a general sense. Amy has idolized Penny, and I think it's safe to say she wishes she was more like Penny. It's not rational, but jealousy seldom is. We the audience see that Sheldon admires and respects and trusts Amy far more than he does Penny, but Amy doesn't necessarily see that. This episode is immediately following an episode where Penny helps Sheldon with his career crisis and gives him a makeover. Then she drags him to a psychic. I agree that it's a little confusing that Amy would feel jealous of Sheldon and Penny's relationship, but hopefully 7.23 and 7.24 will explain that. Also, the episode might play out differently than how we've read it.

[phantagrae]

I haven't had time to read through all of the discussion on the "jealousy" line, etc. but it doesn't really strike me as being that incongruous.

I think that personal perceptions are always different than objective observations. Though Amy has obviously been an influence on him and can get him to do things that others can't, or perhaps to do things for other reasons, we've seen that she doesn't always realize what she has, or recognize her influences.

It may he that she is just now starting to realize that power--with her behavior in Table Polarization, and her attempts to help him with the game console, but it could be that she senses the different kind of friendship and influence that Penny has with him.

But Penny's relationship with him will always be different and Amy has obviously noticed. I don't make too much of Amy's line. I don't think it negates Amy's accomplishments with Sheldon or contradicts his behavior with her.

As much as Sheldon has changed or opened himself to Amy, to trust her, etc. there's still a part of him that holds back, that looks to Penny or Leonard for guidance.

And I also don't think much about Amy tiring of his obsessing over his career. By the time we get to ACHR, we've already gone through Relationship Diremption, so she's already been dealing with his career issue for some time, and we see that he's been dismissive of his colleague's suggestions. And I'm sorry, but no matter how much you love someone, sometimes they can just start plucking on your last nerve. If Amy's been listening to him, and listening and listening, and feels she needs a break, I don't think she's going to want to tell him to his face, "I'm tired of listening to you, so I'm going out with Bernie."

No matter how good Amy is, she's no saint and she's no more perfect than anyone else, so if lying to Sheldon is a misstep on her part, I don't think it changes anything. Is she not allowed to have a selfish moment? If that's what it is.

But her perception of his relationship with Penny is what it is, whether or not it's true that he is more comfortable with Penny.

And I also have no trouble with Sheldon hearing from the psychic. Yeah, it may be a little on the nose, but since we don't know exactly how he eventually reacts, I just think it's just another voice in Sheldon's life saying what he may already be sensing on a subconscious level.

I don't think he's going to take her advice just because. If he acts along those lines, I think he'll find another way to get there.

[Maddie]

I think it's also important to point out that Sheldon sees Penny as a sisterly/motherly figure, and it makes sense for him to feel more "comfortable" around her than he would with a romantic partner. Not saying he values Penny anymore than he does Amy, but since he's still new to this whole romance thing and hasn't completely committed himself yet (at least, in Amy's eyes), it's not hard to imagine why he might sometimes "hold back" with Amy, even with trivial things, non-romantic issues, because there's still a part of him that's trying to pull the reigns back on how he feels about her.

[Susana Alcira]

We know Proton episode has Lenny scenes (a new proposal, isn´t true?) and a few SHAMY but I think 7 x 23 will be a Lenny episode, because the last MUST be SHAMY. Season 6 x 24 was Lenny and 5 x 24 was Howardette.

It is very human that AMY feels a "little" jealousy about Penny. I think Amy was not very happy during last summer, when Leonard was away, so she put it the "dream" "with Leonard OUT of the picture.....!" It was completly out of topic, because they were considering "if Sheldon would not exist" Amy HAS to say that! IMO!!

About the lie, I agree with Phanta!. As I just posted, she is human, she is not perfect, and a the end, everybody have lied to each other, couples or not couples, during the whole show!!

Edited April 7, 2014 by Susana Alcira Cairó

[koops]

Amy has never been an insecure, jealous character (other than the occasional thinking-Sheldon-is-such-a-catch-any-woman-would-obviously-have-him moment). That's part of her charm. The scene in Cooper Extraction was NOT meant to be interpreted as Amy being jealous at all, not only because of how she envisioned Sheldon's response but because of the cheeky expression she had on her face while telling her fantasy. She was blatantly teasing Penny while reiterating the fact that, to her, obviously Sheldon is a catch and so Penny would have not missed on the opportunity of landing him. When Penny obviously had no interest whatsoever and it was very clear.

I don't think it makes any sense to project stereotypical, regular girl's insecurities onto her in a romantic sense, particularly when Amy herself specified she doesn't mean it that way and when the character has never been written that way before. Not to mention it is a big generalization to say all women feel threatened by female friends of their partners'.

As for the "comfortable" aspect of it, like I said, it would be fine to say Sheldon feels more comfortable with Penny is that were true. But it isn't. All this talk of Sheldon feeling somehow on the edge around Amy because she's his romantic interest has never been substantiated by on screen evidence. He has always been very comfortable around her and while one might be able to say he might have held back and maybe even suppress some romantic feelings or actions, we can't say he has ever been comfortable around Penny in a way he hasn't been around Amy. I understand that this is what Amy might think, but then the problem is with Leonard's response.

I'm just not keen on headcanoning away a line that makes little sense with tons of prior episodes and recent development. I also doubt the writers wrote her lying to him thinking "Poor Amy needed a break". They just needed her out of the picture. Most of the general audience won't think about it as deeply as we do, they will just see it as Amy just being bored of her boyfriend's obsession with his own career. If the writers had wanted to do a "Poor Amy needs a break" plot, I'd rather they had used an inconsequential reason like the consoles and save her support for this, which is a more serious matter, not to mention one she can relate to as a scientist.

 

eta: 

 

 

Odd that Sheldon says "neuroscientist" not "neurobiologist." Mayim is the former; Amy the latter.

 

Mayim is the former, Amy is both. Neurobiologist = Neuroscientist, but not necessarily the other way around. Sorry, small pedantic note of mine

Edited April 7, 2014 by koops

[totabcn]

I would have prefer she be brutally honest with him and told him straight out that she needed a break. Maybe she could've even said that if she herself took a break she might be able to clear her head and see things from a new light and then be able to help him later or something I don't know. She's too conscious of his feelings I wish she was more selfish sometimes. I'd love to see selfish!amy more often and not the Amy that tiptoes around his boyfriend and is always trying to make him feel better.

I'm not saying she should be unsupportive or indifferent but she should be honest. In Herb Garden Germination, she and sheldon were talking about her work and when he got tired of listening to her he straight out told her, without batting an eye, and she understood, without batting an eye! The unfiltered honesty is what made their relationship so unique.

My all time favorite line was the "honesty, I'm embarrassed for you" I love it so much because it contrast the "in neuroscience, we're forever finding something in one part of the brain that we thought was someplace else" which she said to make him feel better. She decided it was best to give him the cold hearted truth and the unfiltered honesty instead of making him feel better, because that was going to actually get through his thick head.

But the writers chose to throw all that away for the psychic set up, for the penny/sheldon story line, and for cheap laughs.

[Maddie]

As for the "comfortable" aspect of it, like I said, it would be fine to say Sheldon feels more comfortable with Penny is that were true. But it isn't. All this talk of Sheldon feeling somehow on the edge around Amy because she's his romantic interest has never been substantiated by on screen evidence. He has always been very comfortable around her and while one might be able to say he might have held back and maybe even suppress some romantic feelings or actions, we can't say he has ever been comfortable around Penny in a way he hasn't been around Amy. I understand that this is what Amy might think, but then the problem is with Leonard's response.

 

It's true that Amy is typically a non-jealous character, but to say that she never gets jealous is, in my opinion, kind of absurd. I mean, everyone gets jealous, it doesn't matter who you are. I agree that the line comes out of nowhere, especially after several episodes where you'd think Amy would be feeling more secure than ever about her relationship with Sheldon. But I think, and correct me if I'm wrong totabcn, that the purpose of this scene was to establish that Amy feels Sheldon is withholding something from her that she perceives he isn't from Penny. Whatever that is, I'm not sure, but I feel like she's missing something from him. Idk. That's just my interpretation.

 

I would have prefer she be brutally honest with him and told him straight out that she needed a break. Maybe she could've even said that if she herself took a break she might be able to clear her head and see things from a new light and then be able to help him later or something I don't know. She's too conscious of his feelings I wish she was more selfish sometimes. I'd love to see selfish!amy more often and not the Amy that tiptoes around his boyfriend and is always trying to make him feel better.

I'm not saying she should be unsupportive or indifferent but she should be honest. In Herb Garden Germination, she and sheldon were talking about her work and when he got tired of listening to her he straight out told her, without batting an eye, and she understood, without batting an eye! The unfiltered honesty is what made their relationship so unique.

My all time favorite line was the "honesty, I'm embarrassed for you" I love it so much because it contrast the "in neuroscience, we're forever finding something in one part of the brain that we thought was someplace else" which she said to make him feel better. She decided it was best to give him the cold hearted truth and the unfiltered honesty instead of making him feel better, because that was going to actually get through his thick head.

But the writers chose to throw all that away for the psychic set up, for the penny/sheldon story line, and for cheap laughs.

 

The thing is, though, is that that their relationship in Herb Garden was solely intellectual, and they didn't have the emotional bonds they have now. Amy now pulls back from being honest with Sheldon at times because she's afraid to hurt his feelings, a la the Proton episode when she refused to call him annoying. And if we're getting technical, in Romance Resonance, she wasn't being  honest when she told him she was embarrassed for him. She was just telling him what he wanted to hear.

[BBTGUY]

Tbh, I would not at all be surprised if the last TWO episodes (not just one) had their main focus on Shamy or more specifically Sheldon. The writers have really thrown together this sort of mini-arc from Locomotive up to Proton which has really been about Sheldon and the opening up of his world. Now we know that Wheaton will be back so my guess is threre will be some Ape-ist 2 stuff thrown in the last couple episodes. After re reading the Proton taping report and the Lenny scenes that take place in it, I feel that while what is happening with them is significant for them as a couple, I don't know how much more they can expand on what happened in that short of an amount of time. The most I can see is a cliffhanger of some sorts for them in the finale, but I don't think it will happen because it would be kinda out of left field (but I suppose that's kinda the definition of cliffhanger lol).

Now my thoughts are that Raj and Emily could have more of a significant presence in the final 2 tapings than Lenny because I feel the writers are going to want to give the audience something to look forward to going into next season because they are so new.

But ultimately I think both Episodes fall on Sheldon and his relationship with Amy as well as his internal struggles and career. My opinion is that the writers have pushed this whole change thing for him for a while now so it would make little sense for it not to be the main focus. It seems to me the writers have had more of a plan for this season finale and what leads to it compared to seasons past which I personally prefer. While I have many of my own scenarios about what I'd like to see in the finale (#shamyshipperproblemz), based on what I've noticed over the last 8 episodes or so, my gut feeling is that significant and exciting things are coming in both of the finial episodes of the season for mainly Sheldon but Shamy as well! T-minus 9 days and it could not come any faster!!!

[Irene]

Amy clearly acted jealous when she found out Sheldon's assistant, Alex, was female.

Re: neuroscientist vs neurobiologist, I grant your point. But nonetheless, on the show, they are pretty careful to use the "biologist" label rather than the more general "scientist". I just found it amusing.

[koops]

It's true that Amy is typically a non-jealous character, but to say that she never gets jealous is, in my opinion, kind of absurd. I mean, everyone gets jealous, it doesn't matter who you are. I agree that the line comes out of nowhere, especially after several episodes where you'd think Amy would be feeling more secure than ever about her relationship with Sheldon. But I think, and correct me if I'm wrong totabcn, that the purpose of this scene was to establish that Amy feels Sheldon is withholding something from her that she perceives he isn't from Penny. Whatever that is, I'm not sure, but I feel like she's missing something from him. Idk. That's just my interpretation.

 

 

The thing is, though, is that that their relationship in Herb Garden was solely intellectual, and they didn't have the emotional bonds they have now. Amy now pulls back from being honest with Sheldon at times because she's afraid to hurt his feelings, a la the Proton episode when she refused to call him annoying. And if we're getting technical, in Romance Resonance, she wasn't being  honest when she told him she was embarrassed for him. She was just telling him what he wanted to hear.

 

Everyone feels occasional jealousy, of course, I don't mean Amy is above all forms of jealousy. Like I said she had her occasional "Alex" moments or "I don't need other girls to see him walking around like sex on a stick". But she's not an insecure character in the sense of feeling jealous of someone she knows so well as Penny, especially when they all spend so much time together. But, like I said, I can even buy that Amy's perception might be warped. I said many times that I don't think she realizes the impact she's had on Sheldon. In that case, though, Leonard's response should have been more like the one he gave her in Cooper Extraction, the one he gave her here just supports her statement that Sheldon is more comfortable with Penny, which is simply not true.

 

As for hurting his feelings, I agree that things have changed since THGG and that she's probably more considerate of his feelings. As is Sheldon (see Spoiler Alert). But I also do not think Amy was telling him just what he wanted to hear in Romance Resonance at all. I always thought the point of that scene was that Amy is the only one who really gets him and understood that he was fed up with everyone's cheap pats on the back. She went with "supportive girlfriend" mode first ("In neuroscience we also do this... blah blah") and when that didn't work she went with brutal honesty. It was clear from the tone of voice she used. That's what made that scene great. So yeah, in a sense the told him what he wanted (or rather, needed) to hear, but I don't think she didn't believe it, I do think she was being honest. 

 

eta @Irene: they used to at the beginning when they probably weren't very clear on the distinction etc. Probably before they got to know Mayim well But Amy herself has called herself a neuroscientist and her field as neuroscience often in the past. I remember people made a big deal of when she called herself a neuroscientist in 6x18 like there was some secret career plot afoot. lol!

Edited April 7, 2014 by koops

[Stefania]

I could just quote koops' post and be done with it, but I completely agree that I'm not willing to headcanon away something that I can easily disregard because it doesn't make sense with Amy's character OR what we've seen - pet peeve of mine, but I really don't like tell not show, especially when it's forced down your throat like this. And I'll say again this episode's writing pales in comparison of the couple we've seen before to me.

Just like I ignore Amy's words in 6.11 and pretend she never said them (passing out at a frat party? Really?), I'm going to do the same. Sorry for the brutal honestly, but I really can't reconcile with what the writers went with here: it was lazy to me, pure and simple. As always, imo.

[Retroluv]

Not that I'm trying to tell anyone how they should feel or react to the S/P "issue", and Cod knows I have wrestled with my fair share of pessimism, but I really think that we need to try not to let ourselves be deflated by this episode. As Koops and others have pointed out, it's sloppily written and inconsistent with what we've seen recently. But I think that what most people -- including casual viewers -- will come away with is the message that fate/the universe/etc. has determined that Sheldon belongs with Amy in every way possible, and that (very soon) he's going to figure that out for himself. It's presented in a clumsy, on-the-nose fashion, but it's still a point that's clearly made. How anyone could believe that there's lingering potential for a romantic Shenny pairing is beyond me. If that ever happened, even if S & P shared an ambiguous moment or it was hinted at that they had feelings for each other, TPTB would be alienating the majority of their fanbase and destroy all the progress they've made with Shamy AND Lenny in one fell swoop. There would be no going back. They'd be committing series suicide. They won't go there.

 

ITA with Phanta's comments on why Sheldon might be more "comfortable" with Penny and/or Leonard. Platonic relationships allow for an openness that doesn't always come as easily with a romantic partner. As to why the writers decided to make Amy suddenly insecure and jealous of Penny at this point, I believe they were just looking for a way to make Amy appear vulnerable....and that's going to lead into something in the final episodes. 

 

I also like Phanta's explanation of Amy's "white lie" to Sheldon. She's obviously very supportive and patient with him in general, but everyone has their limit. We have no idea how many times they discussed his career or how those conversations went. It could be that Sheldon shot down or belittled her suggestions, and in that case, she would understandably need a break at some point. 

 

IDK. All will be revealed very soon, and I'm savoring these last few weeks of spoilers before the summer hiatus. The writers have done well so far, and I think they know their fanbase better than we sometimes give them credit for. I'm going to trust that they will do right by these characters in the end. 

Edited April 7, 2014 by Retroluv