Spoilers The Shamy - Season 7 Spoilers Only Discussion Thread

[Maddie]

Everyone feels occasional jealousy, of course, I don't mean Amy is above all forms of jealousy. Like I said she had her occasional "Alex" moments or "I don't need other girls to see him walking around like sex on a stick". But she's not an insecure character in the sense of feeling jealous of someone she knows so well as Penny, especially when they all spend so much time together. But, like I said, I can even buy that Amy's perception might be warped. I said many times that I don't think she realizes the impact she's had on Sheldon. In that case, though, Leonard's response should have been more like the one he gave her in Cooper Extraction, the one he gave her here just supports her statement that Sheldon is more comfortable with Penny, which is simply not true.

 

As for hurting his feelings, I agree that things have changed since THGG and that she's probably more considerate of his feelings. As is Sheldon (see Spoiler Alert But I also do not think Amy was telling him just what he wanted to hear in Romance Resonance at all. I always thought the point of that scene was that Amy is the only one who really gets him and understood that he was fed up with everyone's cheap pats on the back. She went with "supportive girlfriend" mode first ("In neuroscience we also do this... blah blah") and when that didn't work she went with brutal honesty. It was clear from the tone of voice she used. That's what made that scene great. So yeah, in a sense the told him what he wanted (or rather, needed) to hear, but I don't think she didn't believe it, I do think she was being honest. 

 

I get what you're saying about Leonard's comment, and agree that it isn't congruent with what he told her in Cooper Extraction. It really seems like they have been highlighting that something is wrong with Amy. For some reason, she's holding back. I'm hoping this will be clarified in 7.23 and/or 7.24 because it's obvious they are setting up for something.

 

I also understand what you mean about the RR line now. Amy seems to understand Sheldon more than anyone and is able to say the right thing to make him feel better. I'm not trying to justify the writing in this episode, but I do think we will get answers to our questions in the next two episodes.

[koops]

Not that I'm trying to tell anyone how they should feel or react to the S/P "issue", and Cod knows I have wrestled with my fair share of pessimism, but I really think that we need to try not to let ourselves be deflated by this episode. As Koops and others have pointed out, it's sloppily written and inconsistent with what we've seen recently. But I think that what most people -- including casual viewers -- will come away with is the message that fate/the universe/etc. has determined that Sheldon belongs with Amy in every way possible, and that (very soon) he's going to figure that out for himself. It's presented in a clumsy, on-the-nose fashion, but it's still a point that's clearly made. How anyone could believe that there's lingering potential for a romantic Shenny pairing is beyond me. If that ever happened, even if S & P shared an ambiguous moment or it was hinted at that they had feelings for each other, TPTB would be alienating the majority of their fanbase and destroy all the progress they've made with Shamy AND Lenny in one fell swoop. There would be no going back. They'd be committing series suicide. They won't go there.

 

I just wanted to requote this post for emphasis. What it's clear, even in this episode, is that while Amy is moping, Shenny are pretty much the same as they've always been: not only pure friends while Sheldon mocks Penny over and over, but Penny is fangirling over Shamy like the best of us. If anything, the writers are once again reiterating they are just not going there, with Penny in her hyper Shamy-shipping mode. 

 

eta: OMC 4000 posts. I definitely talk too much

Edited April 7, 2014 by koops

[rachelshamyfan]

I mean Amy wasn't even jealous in werewolf when penny announced that Sheldon had seen her naked

It just seems a bit sloppy writing that all of a sudden there is this jealousy

I will reserve proper judgement for when I've seen it properly because it doesn't make much sense right now!

Congrats koops in 4000 posts

Edited April 7, 2014 by rachelshamyfan

[totabcn]

It's true that Amy is typically a non-jealous character, but to say that she never gets jealous is, in my opinion, kind of absurd. I mean, everyone gets jealous, it doesn't matter who you are. I agree that the line comes out of nowhere, especially after several episodes where you'd think Amy would be feeling more secure than ever about her relationship with Sheldon. But I think, and correct me if I'm wrong totabcn, that the purpose of this scene was to establish that Amy feels Sheldon is withholding something from her that she perceives he isn't from Penny. Whatever that is, I'm not sure, but I feel like she's missing something from him. Idk. That's just my interpretation.

Yea, basically. She says she's jealous and that she feels Sheldon should be more comfortable with her at this point. Something else, I didn't mention it on the report, when Leonard is telling her they've known each other longer, he also says "they have a connection". But the thing is that Leonard's known him waay longer than penny has, they share a lot of interests, both in science and in comic books, but they're basically still saying sheldon and penny are special together and both Leonard and Amy are kinda just not the same. And that kinda pissed me off a bit.

The thing is, though, is that that their relationship in Herb Garden was solely intellectual, and they didn't have the emotional bonds they have now. Amy now pulls back from being honest with Sheldon at times because she's afraid to hurt his feelings, a la the Proton episode when she refused to call him annoying. And if we're getting technical, in Romance Resonance, she wasn't being honest when she told him she was embarrassed for him. She was just telling him what he wanted to hear.

But they had a friendship not just an intellectual bond they weren't just colleagues, so honesty had always been a huge part of their relationship. And I don't know, I like to think they've always had an emotional bond, that it's grown and continues to grow, but it's always been there.

I think she actually meant it. She's had this 'supportive and looking at things in a way that would make him feel better' role for so long that she didn't see things in a way a scientist like herself would see things. After she thought about it she was able to actually understand what he was probably going through.

Edited April 7, 2014 by totabcn

[stardustmelody]

I mean Amy wasn't even jealous in werewolf when penny announced that Sheldon had seen her naked

It just seems a bit sloppy writing that all of a sudden there is this jealousy

I will reserve proper judgement for when I've seen it properly because it doesn't make much sense right now!

Congrats koops in 4000 posts

 

In all fairness, I don't think Amy was quite as invested in the relationship when that happened as she is now.  She may have a slightly different reaction now,  plus I think now that she is starting to see Sheldon can show her some physical side of their relationship things are clicking in her mind that didn't before.   It is easier to be less secure when you are finally getting what you want, but you are inexperienced.   She is now starting to wonder whether she can give Sheldon what he may want.  I really think that may be where they are heading...which explains her holding back on the kissing and acting a little shy when there is discussion about physical intimacy.   So that could bring up more jealous feelings when you are starting to have doubts about your own ability to come through after you have been asking for something and now your boyfriend is ready and suddenly you realize you are not.  

 

Overall I think Retro said it best, while this episode was very awkwardly written and clearly lacking respect for character traits, the ultimate message is what is important and that they do have spot on.  

[Cecilia]

I found her deception very OOC after this seasons Raiders episode. Amy explicitly tells Sheldon when he's mad/upset, not to act like a passive aggressive asshat (in nicer words) but to talk to her about it. Sheldon says something about his parents' dysfunctional way of relating and Amy says "Well, that's not how we are going to do it." So why couldn't Amy simply tell him she needed a night out with a girlfriend?

I don't really took it as Amy being mad or upset. I just think she wants to be there for him but she needed a break and didn't know how to say it without hurting Sheldon or making him believe that she doesn't want to deal with him and his problems. I don't know it doesn't seem so OPC to me she did that about him being annoying. Of course you could say that's head canoning and sadly it is. We don't know if she cares or not I just find it a bit exaggerated to say she is a hypocrite or unsupportive. I am not quoting youof course I am just mentioning it. And the fact that she felt so bad about it tells me that she really does care about his career and she doesn't really want for him to leave her in peace she just needed a break. Now as koops said the general viewers will probably interpet this as indifference but personaly I don't really care. Yes the writers could have done a much better job (about several stuff in this ep ) and they could have make it clearer that Amy isn't just sick of Sheldon.

[Retroluv]

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s217/the-big-bang-theory/recaps/a562483/the-big-bang-theory-recap-ps4-or-xbox-one.html#~oAIXdtISsDrbDq

 

"One big moment occurred when Sheldon and Amy kissed once again, following on from their first a few weeks ago. It was great to see that this wasn't a one-off, and that Sheldon appeared to actually enjoy the task, rather than be forced to by Amy, even if the kiss was very PG-13."

 

From "Digital Spy." PG-13? Really? I don't know about that, but I'm glad that the reviewer agrees that Sheldon "appeared to enjoy the task".   

 

[koops]

THEY HAVE A CONNECTION!?!? WTF!?!?

See, I'm sorry but I'm now pissed off too. What the f is this all about? We come on the wake of episodes of massive progress and growth with Shamy where they reach a stage they never had before and we get a line like this which essentially implies that Sheldon and Penny are way ahead of everyone else in their relationship?! Where the hell does this even come from!? Have I been watching the wrong show all these years?! What are the writers trying to pull here? Paying lip-service to Shenny fans?

Seriously, I was dismissing this episode before but now I'm really annoyed.

[Retroluv]

THEY HAVE A CONNECTION!?!? WTF!?!?

See, I'm sorry but I'm now pissed off too. What the f is this all about? We come on the wake of episodes of massive progress and growth with Shamy where they reach a stage they never had before and we get a line like this which essentially implies that Sheldon and Penny are way ahead of everyone else in their relationship?! Where the hell does this even come from!? Have I been watching the wrong show all these years?! What are the writers trying to pull here? Paying lip-service to Shenny fans?

Seriously, I was dismissing this episode before but now I'm really annoyed.

 

 

Am I missing something??? What are you referring to? 

Edited April 7, 2014 by Retroluv

[Maddie]

Hopefully Leonard wasn't implying that only Sheldon and Penny have a connection. I don't think he was, but still.

[Cecilia]

THEY HAVE A CONNECTION!?!? WTF!?!?

See, I'm sorry but I'm now pissed off too. What the f is this all about? We come on the wake of episodes of massive progress and growth with Shamy where they reach a stage they never had before and we get a line like this which essentially implies that Sheldon and Penny are way ahead of everyone else in their relationship?! Where the hell does this even come from!? Have I been watching the wrong show all these years?! What are the writers trying to pull here? Paying lip-service to Shenny fans?

Seriously, I was dismissing this episode before but now I'm really annoyed.

See that's the stuff that annoys me too!! I don't doubt their friendship is special cause it wouldn't work otherwise. They put up with each but there is love between them IMO. But in no way their connection is more special than Shelnard or Shamy. I just wish they would let the Shenny fan base go. I mean provably they are just as upset as we are cause stuff like that are being said and nothing like that will ever happen. I know eventually they want to make the point that Amy is the one he cares about the most but to quote Howard for the love of God why?????

[Retroluv]

Sorry if I'm being dense but can someone tell me why we're freaking out?

[Cecilia]

Sorry if I'm being dense but can someone tell me why we're freaking out?

tot mentioned that when Amy says her jealousy line Leonard claims that Sheldon and Penny have a special connection.

correction : Leonard says they have a connection not special

Edited April 7, 2014 by Cecilia

[stardustmelody]

See that's the stuff that annoys me too!! I don't doubt their friendship is special cause it wouldn't work otherwise. They put up with each but there is love between them IMO. But in no way their connection is more special than Shelnard or Shamy. I just wish they would let the Shenny fan base go. I mean provably they are just as upset as we are cause stuff like that are being said and nothing like that will ever happen. I know eventually they want to make the point that Amy is the one he cares about the most but to quote Howard for the love of God why?????

That was my earlier point as well.  They  tiptoe over the line too often with the way they word things that it can be very misleading and lead a fan base hope that they have no intention on giving a payoff.   So why go there at all? It just fuels their fires when they see things like Leonard telling Amy that Sheldon has a connection with Penny (as if Amy doesn't).  It really comes across poorly and it isn't even really meant to come across that way. That is sloppy writing IMO and also misleading writing.   Sure they have a friendship, and perhaps at times there are a few parallels in the way they may think about some things, but overall they normally are polar opposites.   So stating things like that gives a false-hope to a small fan base that is trying desperately to find a reason to still believe that Shenny may happen as a romantic couple.  It isn't going to happen, and wording like that should be watched for and corrected so it doesn't come across that way. 

 

As a second point, if Leonard is sensing that Amy is feeling jealous (using her own words), why in the world would he say that Penny and Sheldon have a special connection?  That certainly would not instill comfort to Amy.  If anything that might make her more nervous.  His analogy about knowing animals and calming them was a good one and he could have stuck to that saying that Penny knows how to reach him like a scared deer.  But he should have said something more about that while Penny may know how to calm him down, that it is Amy that Sheldon turns to and trusts for advice and for true comfort.  You don't tell someone that is jealous of another girl that her boyfriend has a special connection with that girl. That goes over like a lead balloon!

Edited April 7, 2014 by stardustmelody

[Retroluv]

Well, if Leonard said that and isn't bothered by the so-called "special connection", it's nothing to worry about. Do they have a connection? Absolutely. Is it anything more than friendship? Not in the slightest. Does it trump or negate the connection Sheldon has with Amy? No way. I don't think we should read too much into it. 

 

ETA: True that the Shennies will be all over that. And it is sloppy writing. The writers could have had Leonard encourage Amy and say something like, "but obviously you guys have something special that's very different from what he shares with Penny." IDK why they wrote it this way. Maybe it would have been more difficult to perepetuate Amy's insecurity/vulnerability if Leonard had assuaged her concerns in that scene. I'm really getting the feeling that the final episodes are going to address Amy's recent reactions and behavior. 

Edited April 7, 2014 by Retroluv

[Susana Alcira]

Now, reading all about the last taped episode, I think the writers wanted to give the Shennies a little bit of joy!!

And please, don´t forget the tag scene!!!!!

[totabcn]

Yup. It sucks. I really don't know what the frick frack is going on in the writers room with this whole issue.

He said, "well they've known each other for a long time, they have a connection, and Penny's grown up around horses so she knows how to approach him without making him skittish" something along those lines. And then they follow by saying it took Leonard a long time for Sheldon to be comfortable too but only cause he probably did something horrible in a past life. That all basically implies that Penny got to that level with Sheldon before Leonard did. And that's bs.

[koops]

The issue is that they had Leonard say that in response to Amy's insecurity. It's like he is saying "I'm sorry you're jealous. But you're not Penny." That is just awful. There has never been talk of a connection between any characters on the show before, it sounds so hippy dippy for a show that hates being sentimental. But now we get it for Sheldon and Penny of all people? This is just bad Shenny fanfic.

Eta: Also, I agree with Star that it is just a terrible line from someone who is trying to make Amy feel better. And also, why is is that Shamy have to work and sweat tears and blood to move forward an inch so we can finally guess that maybe maybe Sheldon MIGHT tell her he loves he'd but Shenny in one line, with no effort whatsoever, get their relationship glorified on screen even beyond what it is?

Edited April 7, 2014 by koops

[Cecilia]

Well, if Leonard said that and isn't bothered by the so-called "special connection", it's nothing to worry about. Do they have a connection? Absolutely. Is it anything more than friendship? Not in the slightest. Does it trump or negate the connection Sheldon has with Amy? No way. I don't think we should read to much into it.

I realize that we are reading much into it and I have no problem with Sheldon's connection with Penny. I don't know that really annoyed me tho. Don't know how to explain it right now sorry.

[Susana Alcira]

Penny says: "Amy is the key of your happiness" Why are we terrified!!??

I think the writers are having a lot of fun with our fears!

Edited April 7, 2014 by Susana Alcira Cairó

[Retroluv]

The issue is that they had Leonard say that in response to Amy's insecurity. It's like he is saying "I'm sorry you're jealous. But you're not Penny." That is just awful. There has never been talk of a connection between any characters on the show before, it sounds so hippy dippy for a show that hates being sentimental. But now we get it for Sheldon and Penny of all people? This is just bad Shenny fanfic.

Eta: Also, I agree with Star that it is just a terrible line from someone who is trying to make Amy feel better. And also, why is is that Shamy have to work and sweat tears and blood to move forward an inch so we can finally guess that maybe maybe Sheldon MIGHT tell her he loves he'd but Shenny in one line, with no effort whatsoever, get their relationship glorified on screen even beyond what it is?

So true; that line is not helping poor Amy. WTH, writers? They MUST be up to something with this...it's such a completely inappropriate reaction to Amy's insecurity. What was the point? Would they really throw that in to appease Shenny shippers? Ugh, I'm going back and forth between thinking TPTB are setting something up and thinking that they're just waaaayy too into glorifying the Shenny relationship. 

[koops]

Maybe Penny will get a big acting role this summer and since Sheldon has nothing better to do at work he will go with her to have the best summer of his life. *rollseyes*

[Stefania]

THEY HAVE A CONNECTION!?!? WTF!?!?

See, I'm sorry but I'm now pissed off too. What the f is this all about? We come on the wake of episodes of massive progress and growth with Shamy where they reach a stage they never had before and we get a line like this which essentially implies that Sheldon and Penny are way ahead of everyone else in their relationship?! Where the hell does this even come from!? Have I been watching the wrong show all these years?! What are the writers trying to pull here? Paying lip-service to Shenny fans?

Seriously, I was dismissing this episode before but now I'm really annoyed.

THIS. "A connection"? Sheldon and Penny? Since when?!

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say I'm annoyed about the inventive use of tell not show here.

This is:

A, lip service;

B, not true;

C, again, since when? Did I miss something?

If you're trying to sell Sheldon and Penny as BFFs that have a "connection", try harder TPTB or don't even try. I know the one person Sheldon has a connection, and that's Amy: "Amy is more similar to me than anyone I've ever met", etc.

Trying to sell Sheldon and Penny as a meeting of similar minds that found and understand each other is not only pushing it, it's simply not true. They have always been at odds, that was the funny thing about them.

Now I need to go and look at some of their old scenes because this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

EDIT: Ah, how I miss the good old times when they would just mock the Shenny idea altogether and not throw breadcrumbs... I'm sorry, but a fanbase/shipper group (including us) doesn't have to be "kept happy". They chose to believe non-canon, let's not imply things that are not canon just to keep a minority at bay.

Edited April 7, 2014 by teoriapostmoderna

[rachelshamyfan]

Oh I'm just getting mad now

[totabcn]

Yea I'm really sorry I didn't include that in the taping report. I thought about it but part of me kinda just didn't wanna give the shenny fans the satisfaction of knowing that detail ahead of time..