Spoilers The Shamy - Season 7 Spoilers Only Discussion Thread

[Susana Alcira]

Guys, think! After this episode comes the Proton, where Sheldon has a line about sex with Amy, and where Penny propouses to Leonard!

(at least is what I read in the taping record) Plse Let's try to stop with all of this stuff!

[koops]

But it isn't just about Shamy to me here. It's about Leonard too. Leonard has known him the longest, lives with him, works with him, puts up with him. How on Earth am I supposed to buy he would think to talk as if Penny has actually known Sheldon longer and it took her LESS time to build a connection with him? When Sheldon himself said "LEONARD MADE ME like you"?!

[rachelshamyfan]

Sorry but when the writers throw stupid things in, its good to get it off our chests!

[Stefania]

Sorry but when the writers throw stupid things in, its good to get it off our chests!

Ranting heals your soul, or so they say.

(They really don't say it, don't check. )

And yes, even Leonard is completely out of line here. I could quote from a multitude of episodes where Sheldon says/the plot proves otherwise.

This is just so... troubling, sad, and anger-inducing, even. Disregard seasons of material to throw this in for no apparent reason other than lip service. I need to facepalm. So hard.

EDIT: Oh and I know Penny is and will always be the number 1 Shamy shipper like she shows again in this episode. Still. Did someone in the writers room feel the need to compensate? More importantly, why? I know the easiest answer is "fanservice", but that doesn't work for me. I'd rather have the writers be consistent.

Edited April 7, 2014 by teoriapostmoderna

[Retroluv]

THIS. "A connection"? Sheldon and Penny? Since when?!

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say I'm annoyed about the inventive use of tell not show here.

This is:

A, lip service;

B, not true;

C, again, since when? Did I miss something?

If you're trying to sell Sheldon and Penny as BFFs that have a "connection", try harder TPTB or don't even try. I know the one person Sheldon has a connection, and that's Amy: "Amy is more similar to me than anyone I've ever met", etc.

Trying to sell Sheldon and Penny as a meeting of similar minds that found and understand each other is not only pushing it, it's simply not true. They have always been at odds, that was the funny thing about them.

Now I need to go and look at some of their old scenes because this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

EDIT: Ah, how I miss the good old times when they would just mock the Shenny idea altogether and not throw breadcrumbs... I'm sorry, but a fanbase/shipper group (including us) doesn't have to be "kept happy". They chose to believe non-canon, let's not imply things that are not canon just to keep a minority at bay.

Ok, so I'm not saying the line doesn't irk me...it does...but if we want to be happy as a fandom, we can't worry about how the Shennies are going to interpret the episode. If we do that, we're going to be miserable and frustrated unnecessarily.

I don't think the average viewer will pay much attention to the line, as it's just one in a list of reasons for Sheldon's comfort level with Penny, not the punch line. And as I said before, the most significant part of the episode -- the part that people will talk about and remember -- is the fact that there's confirmation that Sheldon is supposed to end up with Amy, and Penny fully supports that. She is Sheldon's close friend and she is encouraging him to further his relationship with Amy. THAT is what reviews will be written about.

THIS. "A connection"? Sheldon and Penny? Since when?!

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say I'm annoyed about the inventive use of tell not show here.

This is:

A, lip service;

B, not true;

C, again, since when? Did I miss something?

If you're trying to sell Sheldon and Penny as BFFs that have a "connection", try harder TPTB or don't even try. I know the one person Sheldon has a connection, and that's Amy: "Amy is more similar to me than anyone I've ever met", etc.

Trying to sell Sheldon and Penny as a meeting of similar minds that found and understand each other is not only pushing it, it's simply not true. They have always been at odds, that was the funny thing about them.

Now I need to go and look at some of their old scenes because this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

EDIT: Ah, how I miss the good old times when they would just mock the Shenny idea altogether and not throw breadcrumbs... I'm sorry, but a fanbase/shipper group (including us) doesn't have to be "kept happy". They chose to believe non-canon, let's not imply things that are not canon just to keep a minority at bay.

Ok, so I'm not saying the line doesn't irk me...it does...but if we want to be happy as a fandom, we can't worry about how the Shennies are going to interpret the episode. If we do that, we're going to be miserable and frustrated unnecessarily.

I don't think the average viewer will pay much attention to the line, as it's just one in a list of reasons for Sheldon's comfort level with Penny, not the punch line. And as I said before, the most significant part of the episode -- the part that people will talk about and remember -- is the fact that there's confirmation that Sheldon is supposed to end up with Amy, and Penny fully supports that. She is Sheldon's close friend and she is encouraging him to further his relationship with Amy. THAT is what reviews will be written about.

Something's wrong with my phone or the site; sorry about the double post above. Can't edit right now.

[Stefania]

Ok, so I'm not saying the line doesn't irk me...it does...but if we want to be happy as a fandom, we can't worry about how the Shennies are going to interpret the episode. If we do that, we're going to be miserable and frustrated unnecessarily.

I don't think the average viewer will pay much attention to the line, as it's just one in a list of reasons for Sheldon's comfort level with Penny, not the punch line. And as I said before, the most significant part of the episode -- the part that people will talk about and remember -- is the fact that there's confirmation that Sheldon is supposed to end up with Amy, and Penny fully supports that. She is Sheldon's close friend and she is encouraging him to further his relationship with Amy. THAT is what reviews will be written about.

Something's wrong with my phone or the site; sorry about the double post above. Can't edit right now.

 

I'm not worrying about Shenny shippers, I'm worried (not sure if that's how I really feel) that the writers had to go out of their way, their story and their continuity to have Leonard tell Amy that (paraphrasing) "Penny's relationship with Sheldon is something they both can't have", which is just ridiculous. Leonard is Sheldon's first and best friend, he's the one that got him out of the - honestly miserable with those depressing chairs - state he was in 3.22's flashback and Amy is his girlfriend and look at how far they've come since they met in that coffee shop. Implying Penny has the "magic touch" with Sheldon is also wrong - that would be his mom, if anything.

 

I'm bothered that they're not saying things for what they are. Maybe casual viewers will hang onto that, maybe they won't - I know a few people that will, because that's what they choose to believe. And when it's the characters telling you that, you are being served on a silver plate.

Edited April 7, 2014 by teoriapostmoderna

[tbhf]

I don't really think that whole thing was to support shennies (well maybe a little...) but I think it has to do with why Amy lied to Sheldon. I can understand what she is saying about how Penny can talk to Sheldon in other ways, like in 7x1 the YouTube confession. Whilst Sheldon does show a lot of affection for Amy and we all know he loves her, he keeps his feelings hidden from her or if he does say something really affectionate he takes it half back " I would have enjoyed to have you there with me... Or instead of me" or "I like you too" "I should hope so.... I don't see anyone else banging on this door to put up with your nonsense" and maybe because of this Amy wants to hang out with bernie to talk about herself, because with Sheldon talking about his work she won't be able to bring up any other conversation either which can get frustrating. Oh! And with the whole connection between Sheldon and Penny, they are very opposite people and yet so similar, they have commitment issues, and are usually on the receiving end for these with their partners (Leonard with marriage and Amy with sex)

Like Amy said, she isn't jealous in a romantic way that, leonard (the most jealous one of all) not being jelly, the tag, and proton are all keeping me quite sane

[koops]

Ok, so I'm not saying the line doesn't irk me...it does...but if we want to be happy as a fandom, we can't worry about how the Shennies are going to interpret the episode. If we do that, we're going to be miserable and frustrated unnecessarily.

I don't think the average viewer will pay much attention to the line, as it's just one in a list of reasons for Sheldon's comfort level with Penny, not the punch line. And as I said before, the most significant part of the episode -- the part that people will talk about and remember -- is the fact that there's confirmation that Sheldon is supposed to end up with Amy, and Penny fully supports that. She is Sheldon's close friend and she is encouraging him to further his relationship with Amy. THAT is what reviews will be written about.

Ok, so I'm not saying the line doesn't irk me...it does...but if we want to be happy as a fandom, we can't worry about how the Shennies are going to interpret the episode. If we do that, we're going to be miserable and frustrated unnecessarily.

I don't think the average viewer will pay much attention to the line, as it's just one in a list of reasons for Sheldon's comfort level with Penny, not the punch line. And as I said before, the most significant part of the episode -- the part that people will talk about and remember -- is the fact that there's confirmation that Sheldon is supposed to end up with Amy, and Penny fully supports that. She is Sheldon's close friend and she is encouraging him to further his relationship with Amy. THAT is what reviews will be written about.

Something's wrong with my phone or the site; sorry about the double post above. Can't edit right now.

 

I agree with this, of course. We all know what would be the final point viewers are going to take home from this: Amy is the key to Sheldon's happiness (which is also extremely on-the-nose, btw) and Penny is fangirling over that. The problem I have is that the writers lately seem to feel the need to artificially build up this "shock factor" by having the characters say something outrageous just so they can then flip the tables in the opposite direction. They did it with Lenny with the whole Zack marriage thing, just so they could get Penny to say next time she will marry she will do so for love (implying she does intend to marry Leonard), they did it with Shamy with the horrible opening to the V-day episode, just so they could have the shock-factor of the kiss. Now they're doing it again. It's just bad writing, it's not necessary, you shouldn't have to put in lines and scenes that have very little to stand on just so you can go "SURPRISE!" at the end. 

 

 

I'm not worrying about Shenny shippers, I'm worried (not sure if that's how I really feel) that the writers had to go out of their way, their story and their continuity to have Leonard tell Amy that (paraphrasing) "Penny's relationship with Sheldon is something they both can't have", which is just ridiculous. Leonard is Sheldon's first and best friend, he's the one that got him out of the - honestly miserable with those depressing chairs - state he was in 3.22's flashback and Amy is his girlfriend and look at how far they've come since they met in that coffee shop. Implying Penny has the "magic touch" with Sheldon is also wrong - that would be his mom, if anything.

 

I'm bothered that they're not saying things for what they are. Maybe casual viewers will hang onto that, maybe they won't - I know a few people that will, because that's what they choose to believe. And when it's the characters telling you that, you are being served on a silver plate.

 

And this ^ is what I mean when I say that that exchange between Leonard and Amy is annoying.

 

 

As for Sheldon, his issue has never been with commitment. With affection and intimacy, yes, but never with commitment. He put his relationship down in a contract that includes long-term plans about career changes and financial instability and put Amy down as his Emergency Contact. AMY, not Penny. Not Leonard. I agree that there are parallels between Sheldon and Penny in the way they are reticent to give their partners what their partners long for, but I'd say the difference is that Penny was reluctant to give commitment (and she isn't any longer anyway, since it's clear she is planning on marrying Leonard at some point) and Sheldon was reluctant to give intimacy.

 

Do Sheldon and Penny share some personality traits despite their differences? Absolutely. But if that's what the writers are trying to imply with this exchange, they went way way overboard with that. 

[Stefania]

That's the thing, really. No-one here is implying that Penny isn't an important person in Sheldon's life and viceversa, but on the other hand, saying via Leonard and Amy that what they have with him can't possibly match the "connection" their SOs have with each other is waaay too much - simply because we have canon to support this. This is not Bernadette complaining about Raj and Howard.

 

Also, completely agree on what koops said on the "surprise factor" they seem so keen on using recently. It's not foreshadowing, it's just lazy. That said, this episode comes out as a sore thumb after some very good ones. It's not like I have lost all hope or anything, it simply displeases me to see this show go with these poor writing choices when they have shown time and time again just how good, clever and subtle they can be.

Edited April 7, 2014 by teoriapostmoderna

[Susana Alcira]

One important thing: It´s highly probably that Jim and Mayim will be nominated for the Emmy again. The writers won´t be so silly to end the season with SHAMY in big problems or not beeing together!

[saruluvsshamy]

i joined the forum recently... but i was always a TBBT fan,,, i never knew about lenny, shenny or watever the couple names are!

and i have always enjoyed penny/sheldon scenes!

because there is an innocence about those scenes!

P/L treat sheldon like a kid and i absolutely love their scenes...!

 

after i read stuff about some ppl shipping "shenny" and bashing shamy.. tats when it started effecting me...

and i think i was better off before lol( eg the christmas episode.. which i felt was absolutely funny when i watched it then... i dont feel the same way about tat anymore {amy's dream})

 

because sheldon and amy are together and thats how they have written the story..

L/P are also meant to be together,, nothing will change..

 

a normal viewer will enjoy the episode and wont think about such things in detail! because TBBT is a sitcom and it promises a good time and tats it!

Edited April 7, 2014 by saruluvsshamy

[koops]

I just think they're taking what worked about Shamy (Shamy vs the world) and applying it to Shenny, and viceversa taking what worked about Shenny (bickering and conflict) and applying it to Shamy. And when they do that, it all falls incredibly flat and incongruous, because the characters, actors and relationship have a different kind of chemistry with each other. It's fine to constantly bicker and poke fun at your buddy, it's not fine to do so with your SO. Shamy were created to have the mental connection that is over and beyond the physical. Their struggle is with the physical and romantic intimacy and the feelings that come with that. That's their struggle, their story, their journey. They don't need to add, on top of that, this stupid struggle over a mental connection that Sheldon allegedly now has with Penny of all people? Otherwise Shamy are struggling with everything and then we're back to square one: why are they even dating? 

 

Again, I know this is not the message the writers are trying to convey nor where they want to go, and that the vast majority of the audience will walk away with that "Amy is the key to your happiness" line from it. But, regardless, it seems like they take such little care of the nuances of the relationships between the characters sometimes in order to fit some kind of template. I mean, one of the worst lines of the episode is also about Lenny, when A/B laugh at Leonard and say "Oh, yeah, you don't lie to HER", implying Penny has been lying to Leonard all the time and everyone knows that, while he's blissfully unaware and believes they're honest with each other. That is just terrible. Why is there this need for cheap, mean humor? 

 

Anyway, I'm going to put my head in a cold bucket and forget about this, since by the time it airs we will know what the hell they're getting up to. These are going to be the longest two weeks ever. :O

Edited April 7, 2014 by koops

[Stefania]

Absolutely, koops. In a sitcom where every line could have a weight due to how it might make you laugh/whatever the effect they're going with, keeping the lines consistent with who these characters are should be a priority, possibly even more than in other shows. Unfortunately, it's not a new problem and will certainly come back again sometime. Unfortunately. Going for a line because you need for it for the story you want to tell doesn't mean that line is going to fit that character.

Agree on what you said on the dynamics, too. One of the things that made me fall in love with Shamy is how these two were the only people that truly understood the other (a connection, shall we say? ), even and especially when for the rest of the world they were just being "a couple of weirdos". The opposite can be said for Sheldon and Penny, and - apart from the light joke which was a nice throwback - can't say I have really enjoyed their interactions these past two seasons because I can't buy them being so in line with each other (not to mention when they just complain about the "meanies" aka their SOs ugh). In a sense, a similar thing could be said for Leonard and Sheldon's relationship, too. But this is way off topic.

On the other hand, I think the Shamy dynamic is currently better than what it was last season, and I'm grateful for it: not too fond of that Shamy. I think sometimes they still fall in the trap of not having them communicate (their strong point) or make us feel like these two just DON'T get each other to create conflict - which makes little sense, when we think how these two even clicked in the first place.

Perhaps the bottom line here is that we need more Bill in every episode.

I'm just a bit confident this is a one off case and we're getting some wonderfully scripted final episodes. I know you can do it, TBBT.

Edited April 7, 2014 by teoriapostmoderna

[Queenfisher]

my oh my... so many posts in one day all coz of the taping report that shook the shamies @-@

[CaffeineBuzz]

Anyway, I'm going to put my head in a cold bucket and forget about this, since by the time it airs we will know what the hell they're getting up to. These are going to be the longest two weeks ever. :O

100% agreed which is why as much as so many things about that episode annoy the hell out of me, I'm letting it go.  I'm going with Amy is the key to Sheldon's happiness and that they needed to create a little tension between them plus make Amy come off as a bit vulnerable in order to have the goodness in the finale have more impact.  Think about it, if they were both blissfully happy, would another big development have the same impact for the show? Probably not.  This episode was nothing but set up, and other than the "Amy is the key to your happiness" bit I don't think any of the rest of it is meant to be canon. 

[saruluvsshamy]

i m sure we ll get something great in the finale!! tats it

[shamyy]

what if sheldon and penny are get together in the finale (not season finale) I'm so scared of that after HIMYM finale.That would be so disgusting. I'm still nerveous about that

WHAT IF THEY RUİNİNG THE SHAMY ?!

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Edited April 7, 2014 by shamyy

[rachelshamyfan]

Yeah no that won't happen

[Cecilia]

Yeah I am sure the finale will be great too. Actually I doubt anybody is really concerned about Shamy on the finale. It's just one poorly written episode. I guess I just can't see the connection Sheldon and Penny have. I always thought that while they liked each other they would put up with the other cause they couldn't do otherwise. I don't really care about what shennies think (tho I do feel a little bad about them cause they keep getting crumbs of something that will never happen).

Anyway I always enjoy reading your posts and talking with you guys thank you for being there!!!!! Tomorrow there is a taping right???? I have such a positive feeling about it!!!!!!!!!!!

edit : ok I wrote that before I read shamyy's post so I guess there is someone worried. Sorry I never meant to talk for other people I just meant that the people who said that the episode irritated them never gave me the impression that they were worried about Shamy just that they felt like most of the lines had no base just to drive a point home that was already there.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Cecilia

[otakuandfangirl]

what if sheldon and penny are get together in the finale (not season finale) I'm so scared of that after HIMYM finale.That would be so disgusting. I'm still nerveous about that

WHAT IF THEY RUİNİNG THE SHAMY ?!

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I don't think that is going to happen. Most times, the story depends on what the fans want. Not saying that was true with HIMYM, but after that backlash, I'm hoping writers would take those reactions into consideration.

 

However, if there were ever the slimest possible chance of that actually happening and it does, I would be flipping tables, breaking furniture, and leaving flaming sacks of poo on the writers' doors.

[Jiab]

what if sheldon and penny are get together in the finale (not season finale) I'm so scared of that after HIMYM finale.That would be so disgusting. I'm still nerveous about that

WHAT IF THEY RUİNİNG THE SHAMY ?!

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If TBBT has a terrible ending like HIMYM, I will throw feces at TPTB.

just kidding, but I will be devastated for sure.

[shamyy]

If TBBT has a terrible ending like HIMYM, I will throw feces at TPTB.

just kidding, but I will be devastated for sure.

What does TPTB mean ?

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[rachelshamyfan]

The powers that be

No taping till next week

[Cecilia]

The powers that be

No taping till next week

Thank you Rachy!!!!! Well, I am still ok since I have a lot of work to do and started reading Pride and Prejudice. I am loving it so I am fine!!!! :)

[shc1212]

what if sheldon and penny are get together in the finale (not season finale) I'm so scared of that after HIMYM finale.That would be so disgusting. I'm still nerveous about that

WHAT IF THEY RUİNİNG THE SHAMY ?!

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I don't think that will happen. I think the HIMYM writers are already regretting their ending. They didn't realize that they will loose a lot of repeat viewers. Now knowing the end for that one being so bad, I don't feel like re-watching any episodes. TBBT people are way more smarter than this!

Besides I am pretty sure, Lenny are end game. And so are Shamy. They may bring in a lot of things in between, but they wont do something so drastic!