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The Shamy - Season 7 Spoilers Only Discussion Thread


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Sheldon is comfortable with Penny for two major reasons.

Firstly, he doesn't view her in a competitive way. Leonard and Amy are successful with high IQs (Amy's possibly higher than Sheldon's) and they are his 'rivals'; for tenure, for a nobel prize, for success and recognition. He classes Penny's ambitions as worthless and her interests are meaningless to him, she is, to quote "a good-natured simpleton".

Secondly, he is comfortable with Penny because she weighs no expectations on him. He interprets Amy's actions as wanting to move him into a physical relationship (which he is gradually becoming more comfortable with and even yielding to). Penny puts no such pressure on him so he can be more relaxed. There's a major difference between interactions with someone you are tentatively negotiating a sexual relationship with and one with whom there's no possibility. He has never needed to tread carefully with Penny.

And third because he has no interest in Penny romantically in the slightest.   Bottom line, she is all the things you said and he does view her as someone that he will never have a romantic interest in, never have to face new "feelings" with and possibly deal with "hippie-dippy" feelings at that.   He knows that will never be the case with her.   Penny is charted territory. To him, she is another MIssy, just another sister.   But with Amy, it is all uncharted territory and the "homeostatic" Sheldon hates navigating uncharted waters.   It scares him.   So of course there is going to be comfort with something known vs. unknown with him when it comes to personal interactions.   It is rather funny because his whole field of study was really looking at the Universe in an uncharted fashion, yet he is so scared of that when it comes to dealing with people.  :laugh:

 

 

I think what I find off about the whole scene is Leonard's response. It would have been a lot more appropriate to say to Amy something like what you said, Thing, than what he did say, which made it sound like Amy has a right to be jealous because Sheldon and Penny have a connection neither she nor Leonard can compare to. Because, indeed, if Sheldon IS in any way more comfortable with Penny (and that's also debatable, depending on what aspects we are referring to), that is precisely because his relationship with Amy is a lot more delicate and special, and one that nobody ever expected him to have with another human being. 

 

I don't know, like I said. I can understand Amy's insecurity, albeit thinking it's ill-timed, but Leonard's response is all sorts of downers.

 

YES!! ^^^^THIS^^^^  I totally agree with this.  It was really the way it was handled that was so poor.  I have to wonder if that writer ever felt any jealousy before because if they had they would have understood what was so wrong with that whole response back to Amy from Leonard.   :girlwink:     

Edited by stardustmelody
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I think some girlfriends feel jealous of her boyfriend's female friend. Amy is pretty insecure now, we can see that in the way she's behaving with Sheldon when they're kissing, I don't think this is inconsistent with her character. They changed her. Amy was mostly: "I don't give a fuck" at the beginning but now they made her insecure, unsure.

I just finished watching Pulled Groin and I can't believe how much Amy has changed. I'm not saying it's a bad thing...but it's just there..

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I think what I find off about the whole scene is Leonard's response. It would have been a lot more appropriate to say to Amy something like what you said, Thing, than what he did say, which made it sound like Amy has a right to be jealous because Sheldon and Penny have a connection neither she nor Leonard can compare to. Because, indeed, if Sheldon IS in any way more comfortable with Penny (and that's also debatable, depending on what aspects we are referring to), that is precisely because his relationship with Amy is a lot more delicate and special, and one that nobody ever expected him to have with another human being.

I don't know, like I said. I can understand Amy's insecurity, albeit thinking it's ill-timed, but Leonard's response is all sorts of downers.

That's really my problem with the scene and the execution. As I've said before, I'm willing to disregard it as lazy writing and a VERY poor choice of words on the writers' part - as I just find the episode as a whole to be quite honest - but I can't take it for granted nor apply a headcanon on it. I'll probably just follow what I did with The Table Polarization and ignore a good portion of this episode for the sake of my sanity.

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It's the pure simplicity of the Penny/Sheldon friendship that makes it work. There are no expectations from either side and so no pressure. Leonard's acknowledgment of their closeness without displaying signs of insecurity himself is a positive thing. He recognises it for what it is.

That being said, Penny did spook Sheldon in the Table episode, so she's not quite the 'Sheldon Whisperer' Leonard imagines her to be.

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Oh my god what is that mean ? is mayim leaving the big bang theory :( !!

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They said GUEST star, and looks like there're a lot of guests stars over there and it explains that there will be a new one each week. I don't think Mayim would leave TBBT and have lots of reasons (for contract wise, personal, carrer...)  to stand by that belief.

Edited by QuirksAndAll

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Oh my god what is that mean ? is mayim leaving the big bang theory :( !!

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No she is only guest starring on the show and it is while TBBT is on hiatus.  She has a multi-year contract with TBBT so no need to get nervous.   She will be there as long as the show airs.

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I don't think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that anyone is saying that Sheldon isn't comfortable with Penny. I totally agree that there's a lot less anxiety and expectations with a friend than someone you're navigating a romantic relationship with, particularly in its earliest stages. And Shamy, for all intents and purposes, are very much in the early stages of romance, despite the fact that they've known each other for 4 years. I mean, just look at how they had discussed sharing a room in S4, when they were just friends, compared to how big a deal it is to them now. Or the fact that Sheldon had no issue taking in a stranger as a new roommate in 6x15 but realized the implications of living with his girlfriend as representing a level of intimacy they weren't ready for. Or the fact that he has no issue kicking Penny out of her bed and let her sleep on the couch, or sleeping naked with his friends, but won't do the same with Amy. Despite his apparent "cluelessness", Sheldon isn't as clueless as he seems.

 

I think what I find off about the whole scene is Leonard's response. It would have been a lot more appropriate to say to Amy something like what you said, Thing, than what he did say, which made it sound like Amy has a right to be jealous because Sheldon and Penny have a connection neither she nor Leonard can compare to. Because, indeed, if Sheldon IS in any way more comfortable with Penny (and that's also debatable, depending on what aspects we are referring to), that is precisely because his relationship with Amy is a lot more delicate and special, and one that nobody ever expected him to have with another human being. 

 

I don't know, like I said. I can understand Amy's insecurity, albeit thinking it's ill-timed, but Leonard's response is all sorts of downers. 

 

But see, I don't think that Leonard's response is meant to be some kind of deep analysis of Sheldon/Penny and/or Sheldon/Amy, just an explanation that Sheldon's relationship with Penny is what it is--that they do indeed have a connection and that it is what it is because of her approach to him.  She puts up with his crap on the one hand, but she also plays the Dutch Uncle with him.  She has taught him a lot of things over the years, before he ment Amy, and it is because of her that Sheldon and Amy had their first date.

I don't think Leonard's words in any way imply a "better" or "deeper" connection between Penny and Amy, just that, if the dialog we know is accurate, they have a connection.  If Sheldon is "more" comfortable with Penny than he is with Amy, it is, like others have said, because he has nothing at stake with Penny.  He can insult her and mock her without fear, really.  She'll roll her eyes, insult him back, and they move on.  He doesn't really worry about hurting her feelings or making her feel stupid and she doesn't really care if she does the same to him.  Therefore there is a lot of freedom between them that he might not feel with Amy.

If he hurts Amy's feelings or insults her, there are consequences.  And most importantly, I think he doesn't want to hurt her feelings or make her mad at him.  If Penny gets mad over something he says, he doesn't really care.  If Amy gets mad, he ends up looking for ways to make amends, even if someone else has to spell it out for him.

 

And then they immediately puncture any seriousness there might have been in that response by using the "horses" remark and by Leonard saying that his friendship with Sheldon is a cosmic punishment (which of course, isn't the truth of how he feels.)

 

I think that little conversation is both truth and joke and I don't think it's meant to convey anything very deep about Sheldon's relationship with Amy, or a lack of comfort or openness between them.  Just a difference between how he relates to Amy versus how he relates to Penny.

 

And by the way, on the other forum someone mentioned--and I agreed--that in the butter scene in Indecision, Amy was being kind of mean to Sheldon.  He IS opening up to her in a way he would normally reserve for the guys--going on an on about the pros and cons of the gaming systems.  This is the kind of conversatin he would have with them because they share that kind of interest and passion over something like games and electronics.  So he's sharing that passion and interest with Amy (like he tried to share his interest in trains with her in Locomotive), and she's kind of blowing off his interest in it at first, until he calls her on it.

So then she pretends that she's going to listen to his dilemma and take it as seriously as he wants her to, but instead she simply mocks his excitement.  Yes, she's impatient with his constant obsessing, but that was a little mean.

He obviously wasn't offended, and I think it was meant to be her reining him in a bit, but still, he's so openly, innocently sharing his analysis of the pros and cons with her, believing that she's into the conversation, only to have her knock the wind out of him over the butter.  (Yes, he should have given her the butter when she asked for it.)

 

She has a right to get exasperated, but this is what I mean about Amy not being perfect, when she wants to get away from his obsessing over his career issues, as well.

 

I think that butter scene, and the beginning of the scene at Best Buy, kind of puts her in the same category as the other girls--putting up with the nerdy boys' obsessions with nerdy boy things, like gaming consoles and Star Wars/Trek stuff, etc.--rather than keeping her in the quirky corner. 

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The world revolves around Sheldon, we all - starting from Amy - just need to comply. Poor baby. [eyeroll]

(This coming from someone whose favourite character is Sheldon and who is as much as annoying as he is.)

EDIT: I simply think it's absurb to find something bad in Amy's behaviour in Indecision. What else could she have done?

Edited by teoriapostmoderna
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I'm sorry guys since my english not good enough I didn't see "guest" word. I'm too over reacted. Sorry again

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Don't worry it's ok. I used to do that all the time when I first started with message boards back in 2002

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Oh my god what is that mean ? is mayim leaving the big bang theory :( !!

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I think this airs in May, so BBT will be on a break anyways!! She won't leave :) Also, Amy has become an integral part of the show now (Sheldon's SO.. come on!!)! It would be too weird if she leaves. The next 3 seasons would be hard for the writers to pen around without her!

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Ok, I'm sorry, but whoever said that has got to be kidding me. Amy is CONSTANTLY listening to him, putting up with all of his obsessions, supporting him through them and even sacrificing her own needs so he can indulge in what he likes. She gave up a V-day last year so they could stay home and do what HE likes, she arranged a whole weekend away that he could enjoy too this season and probably even paid for it, since she had everything booked already. She sat through him trying to come up with his theory of humor that he then ended up missing their double date over. Just to name a few recent ones. All the while, ever since Fish Guts last year, he hasn't shown ONE moment where he would return the favor and do something with her in mind first. Or try to understand her needs. Not once. On the other hand, he has blown off HER interests and job plenty this season and in the past and has spent many a date night being self-absorbed and ignoring her, if we go by many lines we have heard just this season. 

The only reason he went with her to Napa Valley is because they were going to have dinner on a fully functioning vintage train.  He even threw it back in her face when he reminded her that she had told him the trip would be something they would both enjoy and then asked if she was trying to trick him.

 

They really need to have an Amy-led date night with the first rule is he can't complain about anything.

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HELLO i'm new, passing by just to said that all of you are really smart and, i agree with all of you in 99.9% of some questions...

i didn't want to join me cause, i didn't know what to said, but i only know that i love the shamy, by the way i'm from mexico 

SALUDOS A TODOS!

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If I may come back to my previous post as an apology (that was way too snarky and I needed to take a moment to breathe before posting - but maybe fandom is too serious business for me to handle, I don't know), I'll say that Amy wasn't doing anything "wrong" in Indecision. If anything, I would love to see any other girlfriend or any other person in that same circumstance. Point is, Sheldon is not a special snowflake that needs to be treated with gloves just because - and I'm the first one to be annoyed when Sheldon gets the free pass with/from characters, fandom or writers alike. I love Sheldon, that doesn't mean he can't be insufferable. Who knows how long he had being going on and on about consoles before Amy did that - as someone that gets on very similar tangents in real life with people that couldn't care less about TBBT, just to name an example, I thought that was a very understandable and reasonable reaction. Some would say funny, but...

 

Now, maybe - well, not maybe - the problem is that we see her being supportive on something as trivial as consoles and then annoyed/bored on Sheldon's work issues in 7.21, but I'll just say what I said already. I think who wrote the episode wanted to get to a point and probably didn't give too much attention on how they got there and let's leave it at that. That's the only conclusion I can jump to. I can't start to believe to see Shamy not discussing work issues, which they did countless times before, and this coming right after an episode where Amy is nothing but supportive. They needed conflict, I get it. Still, it makes little sense to me.

Edited by teoriapostmoderna
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If I may come back to my previous post as an apology (that was way too snarky and I needed to take a moment to breathe before posting - but maybe fandom is too serious business for me to handle, I don't know), I'll say that Amy wasn't doing anything "wrong" in Indecision. If anything, I would love to see any other girlfriend or any other person in that same circumstance. Point is, Sheldon is not a special snowflake that needs to be treated with gloves just because - and I'm the first one to be annoyed when Sheldon gets the free pass with/from characters, fandom or writers alike. I love Sheldon, that doesn't mean he can't be insufferable. Who knows how long he had being going on and on about consoles before Amy did that - as someone that gets on very similar tangents in real life with people that couldn't care less about TBBT, just to name an example, I thought that was a very understandable and reasonable reaction. Some would say funny, but...

Now, maybe - well, not maybe - the problem is that we see her being supportive on something as trivial as consoles and then annoyed/bored on Sheldon's work issues in 7.21, but I'll just say what I said already. I think who wrote the episode wanted to get to a point and probably didn't give too much attention on how they got there and let's leave it at that. That's the only conclusion I can jump to. I can't start to believe to see Shamy not discussing work issues, which they did countless times before, and this coming right after an episode where Amy is nothing but supportive. They needed conflict, I get it. Still, it makes little sense to me.

I agree with you and koops when you say that the writers probably mixed up the work thing and the game thing and Amy's reaction to either. I wasn't really annoyed by that cause personally I think it's understandable but head canon is really helpful in these situations. So, after reading your posts guys and especially koops's about how Amy is not mean at all in Indecesion I figured that maybe she wanted to avoid another moment like the butter one. I realize that work is an important issue and I believe that Amy did say her opinion again and again and listened to him talking probably for hours and took care of him when he got drunk because of his job so I think considering Sheldon's character that he probably got to a point that he was just ranting over the same things again and again. She realized she getting fed up with it but knows she cannot have a similar outburst cause it is an important issue so she takes a break. Of course she could always have told him the truth (and I would very much prefer that ) but she didn't either cause she didn't want to insult him or discourage him from opening up about his job. I know there are a lot more ifs and maybes in what I wrote but we are often left to head canon the blanks. But I do believe that the writers tried to indicate that Amy is supportive and just needed some time off cause she was honestly sad that she lied and she felt really bad. Or they just wanted that to lead to the school girl outfit :p I could very easily imagine Bernie complain about Penny and Amy agreeing and adding that she also has to deal with Sheldon having a similar crisis then Bernie suggesting an evening alone. I don't know but accoeding to their personalities I think Bernie would lie easier without feeling especially guilty plus she had to avoid ms. Wolowitz too so she had a better reason to persuade Amy to hang out just the two of them :p Anyway I know that's my personal interpreting (head canoning :p ) but I hope it helped. I do that with Santa Simulation too and I am convinced that Amy was lying to fet Raj to like her and I wouldn't change my mind even if all the writers one by one knocked on my door to confirm she wasn't. Cause she was. :p

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The only reason he went with her to Napa Valley is because they were going to have dinner on a fully functioning vintage train.  He even threw it back in her face when he reminded her that she had told him the trip would be something they would both enjoy and then asked if she was trying to trick him.

 

They really need to have an Amy-led date night with the first rule is he can't complain about anything.

 

What we need isn't an episode where Sheldon just has to shut up while Amy decides what to do. What we need is an episode where we see that Sheldon puts his own effort into making her happy, even though it might not me as often as she does. He hasn't done anything to make her happy since V-day last year. And even then, I wouldn't say his gift was entirely selfless because he hasn't put his own needs asides for her there. The last time he had done that was in Fish Guts. 

 

@Cecilia. I know, that's the way to look at it, probably. But I still have massive issues with headcanoning because I shouldn't be doing the work for the writers. They should be able to convey the message without me having it to make excuses for them.  Most people who watch the show aren't going to do that. We have barely seen Amy deal with his career crisis, definitely not in the same way we've seen Leonard deal with Penny's. And she's a scientist, it would make so much sense for her to be helpful to him. Why do their stories always have to revolve around sex and when they're going to do it? Why can't they just have a plot where they help each other in their careers or other important things? 

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I wish the writers remembered why and more importantly how they brought Amy into the show's equation in the first place. Amy was meant to be Sheldon's equal in every way (intellectual, emotional, social). We lost that in S6, got it back in S7, and now it looks like we're losing it again. It's maddening. I know that there's nothing interesting to tell when a story goes smoothly and that shows need conflict between their main relationships, but it looks like TBBT has forgotten how the Shamy's conflicts work. I keep going back to Season 5, but it's my favourite for a reason. Everything was much more well balanced. Amy had started to change enough to provide some conflict (she was already hinting at her sexual desire for Sheldon) but it wasn't hammered in our and Sheldon's faces the way it's been ever since. Their fights felt real, had real, deep-rooted reasons, and had quirky and satisfying resolutions.

Now we see Amy get annoyed at Sheldon for a career related problem when she was supportive for goddamn video games and gave him crap for not taking her work seriously enough in The Shiny Trinket Maneuver, all of that because the writers have forgotten how to write conflict for the Shamy. To their credit, it looks like they're finally trying to distance themselves from that terrible "the only Shamy conflict now is sex" vibe that we'd been stuck in since the beginning of the sixth season, which is a relief, but they're still going at it the wrong way.

Edited by Marina
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